Minstrel Tweaks

[Bombolllo]

I like some of the changes but I don't understand why some people are praising SoS not being an immediate skill anymore. If minstrel post-animations werent so long then I could see it potentially working (though then in SoS's current state prob just wouldnt be used) but given the current time wasted by mini animations the SoS change will sadly just make healing on mini feel more unresponsive as you spend significant gaps between heals waiting for the animation to finish.

[mikkye]

Exactly if SoS immediate is removed itll be gaps between rotation filled by spamming raise the spirit which is something you shouldn't do ever spamming a skill.

[Remcosajax]

This thread is just pure gold.

More then half of the comments are 'feedback' without testing one single minute.

Maybe appreciate Vastin is putting time into your class and more importantly communicates changes before being implemented.

Maybe you should try it BEFORE all this **** talk....


If I was Vastin, I'd stop even here and leave your class, broken as it is.

[mikkye]

This thread is just pure gold.

More then half of the comments are 'feedback' without testing one single minute.

Maybe appreciate Vastin is putting time into your class and more importantly communicates changes before being implemented.

Maybe you should try it BEFORE all this **** talk....


If I was Vastin, I'd stop even here and leave your class, broken as it is.

Lets nerf pet rotation and make windlore not refresh fire frost lore as class rework 2019 mate?

[Remcosajax]

Lets nerf pet rotation and make windlore not refresh fire frost lore as class rework 2019 mate?

Irrelevant to this thread, but I actually suggested in the LM's changes pass to increase the cooldown from windlore to around 20 sec.

And every LM knows that pets need a serious overhaul.

[mikkye]

Thing is though I saluted @Devs consistently all the way from when hunter/mini were changed up to red capt changes.

When a dev announces these are the incoming class changes if the community does not give the negative feedback things like OB perma immunity would have been implemented on live. These are suggestions the good ones should will stay and hopefully the ones with like 80% + negative responses should not be implemented.


Nothing is wrong with giving feedback even if negative, what comes wrong is when people start trolling or ranting/provoking people on these threads and making it flooded with toxicity

[Dairos]

I don't dare to predict the impact of these changes on my healing but I'm quite sure it's not some tweaks to it.
It's a complete rewamp to minstrels' healing (if only becasue of BC new cd) so I would err on the side of caution and not touch cooldowns if I didn't have the time to make sure the job is complete.

On the other hand, both minstrels in our raiding group have already been asked to swap for beorning (myself) and rk for Anvil tier2. Thing can't get worse.
And again, the hot portion of RtS should have really been fixed by now.

[the319]

These changes will slightly buff our panic skills i.e bubbles, coda and ts, group heals will be about the same or less with no sos to cut the animations. As has been said, the changes to heralds strike are useless for group play.

- I *am* looking for some significant group heal improvements, and hopefully more rotation options to achieve good throughput.

These aren't it by a long way Vastin. If the raise our spirits trait is fixed and scaled accordingly then you'd be onto to something, give the traited version a cd so it cant be spammed with a decent group hot.

Chord of salvation traited grp heal also isnt working correctly - see here https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Reddit-Repost

All in all, minstrel will still not be desirable for the new raid, especially on t2 and t3. At a push you'd bring it for the yellow buffs still.

[Aeviternus]

Exactly if SoS immediate is removed itll be gaps between rotation filled by spamming raise the spirit which is something you shouldn't do ever spamming a skill.

Lmao. So instead of Raise the Spirit, you should be spamming SoS to cut every animation, even though you just said yourself that you shouldn't ever be spamming a skill? Makes sense. Tell me, are you also in favour of reverting the change FriendlyHat made to Follow Up?

If you don't think that one single skill should be spammed, then you should be in favour of these changes. Plain and simple. Maybe the % buffs aren't enough, but the idea is very good, and that is the point. Numbers can be tuned.

[mikkye]

not have an immediate for mini is wrong, we still have bubble immediate but now with bubble buffs you want to use that carefully

but again if all those skills get proposed cd it would only leave raise the spirit spams which is wrong

[............]

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding healing.
It's not about having a rotation of skills you can use. It's about keeping people alive.
Current content is mostly designed around spike damage, not continuous damage, so this is written from that frame of mind.

Keeping a tank alive requires either pre-emptive reduction (buffs / debuffs / bubbles like RK) or post-damage healing (mini/bear).

Raw HPS is a limited effectiveness indicator. A bear can put out 3-4 times the raw numbers as a mini, but a lot of that goes to waste. That means they don't need to be as focused as the more limited precision healing minstrels have.

15 second chord will hurt squishier tanks and mini's who don't plan ahead. T3 Fror, sometimes I have time to hit chord on an off target and still maintain tank healing. Losing 1 in 3 chords will change that.
--------

Until we can actually test effectiveness, I can't say whether the increase in aoe potency is enough. It looks like a good start.

SoS change reduces spammability of RtS/Bolster a bit, but not lethally. It does make Chord more dangerous, as if it doesn't crit, you lose follow up recovery time too.
--------

All in all, this seems to more benefit average minstrels, rather than T2C minstrels.

[sapienze]

Having SoS being proposed as a non immediate brings into question of the whole premise of immediates and their purpose. Originally immediates were meant to be interrupts. The by-product for some classes sped up their rotations. Cutting skills animations was not the original intent.

I bring up this fact due to the wide use of skill cutting where ever it can be used. Is Vastin setting a precedent with the Minstrel skill SoS and proposing it not be used as a skill cutting tool?


The Minstrel has already lost the use of a class and (Hobbit) race trait. This being Still as Death or commonly known as the flop or Hobbit flop. I noticed the Rift t3 flops are now disabled. Having SoS changed to the point of considering it disabled is another skill Minstrels have which has been removed from its former application.

Minstrels were once unique and essential for groups. It is my hope they can be salvaged to remain unique and useful in light of recent changes to other classes who can heal.

[Bombolllo]

For me this "All in all, this seems to more benefit average minstrels, rather than T2C minstrels" hits the nail on the head honestly with many of the changes, and whilst its great for newer players to have an easier time healing, it's at T2 (onwards) of the raid that I believe minstrels start running into problems and so while I think some of these changes are in the right direction and I do think it looks to have helped minstrels AoE, however its single target seems weaker than before with the chord changes, bolster cd and SoS changes. Having said that I have not tested it at all currently so would love anyone who has had the chance to tell me otherwise.

[............]

The Minstrel has already lost the use of a class and (Hobbit) race trait. This being Still as Death or commonly known as the flop or Hobbit flop. I noticed the Rift t3 flops are now disabled. Having SoS changed to the point of considering it disabled is another skill Minstrels have which has been removed from its former application.

Flop is fairly useless outside of exploiting skipping trash.
The only real purpose is as a temporary aggro drop otherwise, during which you aren't healing, and it doesn't clear aggro either - just temporarily hides it.
And threat hasn't been a real mechanic since the simplification of taunts.



@Vastin Bullroarer when? Most of us would like to at least test these changes to provide relevant feedback.

[dsltn07]

I don’t have a minstrel at 120, so with a grain of salt here: being on the receiving end of mini heals as a tank doing anvil with max mits is by no means easy. Even well geared minstrels seem to struggle to top 7-9k HPS, and this continues through larger 100k+ hits. Taking two hits for 100k in a row can quickly cause concern because the minstrel does not seem to have any way to catch up without a lucky BC crit. This makes many minstrels unable to solo heal a tank.

The idea of a more unique rotation than bolster spam sounds good to me. Perhaps 3s cd is too high, perhaps not. Overall, seeing their base heal numbers though, they should all be increased by 50% minimum, which it seems Vastin is trying to balance.

[Vastin]

Yeah, I did know that the SoS interrupt change was going to cause some panic, so now that you've gotten over that initial surge, I'll take a moment to go into some detail on that.

The purpose behind it is two-fold:

1) It's much harder to balance a class when one of its primary mechanics is allows it to break the timing of most of its skills.
2) It puts a higher skill cap on the minstrel class than I believe is desirable for the game's core healer.

I have no problem with the occasional animation break - but animation timing is already one of the hardest things for us to keep track of and adjust on the technical side, so having a spammable skill that enables it just makes everything chaotic in a bad way for us.

The skill cap issue creates a different problem, where we can and do get complaints that a class is both significantly over-powered and under-powered at the same time. This can absolutely be true when there's a high skill cap, and especially so when that skill cap is dependent on understanding complex hidden mechanics like SoS animation breaking - our interface just doesn't provide any feedback for that sort of thing.

In short, *I* may have to write up massive spreadsheets in order to properly understand and work with our character classes - and some of you obviously enjoy doing the same in your spare time - but I'd really rather that most players not be required to. I want to try to keep most of the major mechanics visible to players wherever reasonably possible.

Anyhoo, I definitely want to further refine the balance between a few of the core skills to get them in a good place and I'm certainly considering the various arguments around the cool-down changes. I'm also going to see if I can do something about a few of the clunkier Minstrel anims, if possible. I'll try to get this stuff in front of you folks ASAP so that you can run some actual tests and see how it plays out in practice.

Regarding the low level DPS, I didn't get to run a lot of tests, but after normalization, my experience at level 50 was that your firepower was reduced from 'Death Star' magnitude to around 'Independence Day' levels of mass destruction? A dramatic decrease to be sure, but it didn't stop me from killing on-level elites without too much difficulty. They could just actually REACH me now, maybe take a few swings. What I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, though I'll definitely need feedback from a wider range of levels to be safe.

-Vastin

[NyblingN]

Yeah, I did know that the SoS interrupt change was going to cause some panic, so now that you've gotten over that initial surge, I'll take a moment to go into some detail on that.

The purpose behind it is two-fold:

1) It's much harder to balance a class when one of its primary mechanics is allows it to break the timing of most of its skills.
2) It puts a higher skill cap on the minstrel class than I believe is desirable for the game's core healer.

I have no problem with the occasional animation break - but animation timing is already one of the hardest things for us to keep track of and adjust on the technical side, so having a spammable skill that enables it just makes everything chaotic in a bad way for us.

The skill cap issue creates a different problem, where we can and do get complaints that a class is both significantly over-powered and under-powered at the same time. This can absolutely be true when there's a high skill cap, and especially so when that skill cap is dependent on understanding complex hidden mechanics like SoS animation breaking - our interface just doesn't provide any feedback for that sort of thing.

In short, *I* may have to write up massive spreadsheets in order to properly understand and work with our character classes - and some of you obviously enjoy doing the same in your spare time - but I'd really rather that most players not be required to. I want to try to keep most of the major mechanics visible to players wherever reasonably possible.

Anyhoo, I definitely want to further refine the balance between a few of the core skills to get them in a good place and I'm certainly considering the various arguments around the cool-down changes. I'm also going to see if I can do something about a few of the clunkier Minstrel anims, if possible. I'll try to get this stuff in front of you folks ASAP so that you can run some actual tests and see how it plays out in practice.

Regarding the low level DPS, I didn't get to run a lot of tests, but after normalization, my experience at level 50 was that your firepower was reduced from 'Death Star' magnitude to around 'Independence Day' levels of mass destruction? A dramatic decrease to be sure, but it didn't stop me from killing on-level elites without too much difficulty. They could just actually REACH me now, maybe take a few swings. What I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, though I'll definitely need feedback from a wider range of levels to be safe.

-Vastin

You mentioned originally that you were looking at doing some stuff to Yellow Line as well. Is that still on the table or are these the changes you are primarily focusing on for now?

[Fureo]

- Many Minstrel skills/effects that had not been normalized previously have been updated.
- Healers strike group heal increased by ~540%
- Major Ballad group heal increased by ~480%
- Heroes strike self heal increased similarly.
- Improved Chord of Salvation group heal component increased by ~300%, cooldown increased (10->15s)
- Raise the Spirit heal increased by ~180%
- Coda of Resonance Heal increased by ~150%, cooldown increased (1->10s)
- Coda of Melody's heal increased by ~130%.
- Inspire Fellows heal increased by ~90%, cooldown increased (5->10s)
- Perfect Ending heal increased by ~40%
- Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
- Triumphant Spirit heal increased by ~10%
- Legend of Hammerhand's expiry heal is now 2% of each fellowship member's max morale (per bubble that expires)
- Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.
- Spirit of Freedom is now Immediate and features a faster animation.
- Story of Courage no longer has an induction - it is now a Fast skill.
- Song of Hammerhand bubble magnitude increased (10%->30% Max Vital)
- Gift/Legend of Hammerhand bubble magnitudes increased (10%->20% Max Vital)
- Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
- Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
- All Ballad damage increased by ~40%.

-Vastin

PS: As a result of normalization, Low level minstrels will find that their DPS has dropped substantially, but that their healing has improved. Seemed quite playable at 50, but I haven't had a chance to go test in multiple ranges yet.

PPS: Not quite sure when this will start showing up on Palantir or Bullroarer, but I figured I'd give you a heads up beforehand in any case.

Hey @Vastin,

So all the buffs to outgoing healing are nice, but...

- You buffed the group heal component of Chord of Salvation. AS many stated befor, that is the same Group heal as Raise the Spirits does and they both scale with the yellow trait "Raise our Spirits" up to 20%. Have you checked/fixed it that they are not bound together anymore? Otherwise the Group heal you are skilling in that trait probably is scaled up the same for Raise the spirits.
You said you are not fixing any buffs, but this is crucial since with those changes this trait would be so good and maybe a key skill to use If it would apply the HoT it is supposed to give.

The cooldown increase was unnecessary since the existing Group Heal was basically non existent, but it should have been the amount, you changed it too now, all the time. Pls leave it at 10s. You basically buff nerv a skill here :=)


- The Cooldown increase on Inspire Fellow is not necessary, but i will come at the end of this Feedback to all the Cooldown related stuff.


- The Bolster Courage heal increase is given to both, the ST heal and the Group heal Bolster our Courage ? Would be nice if the buff is applied to both Heals.
The increased Cooldown to 3s is to much in addition to all the other cooldown increases. But again the Cooldown stuff comes at the end.


- Song of Hammerhand 30% is too much. Minstrels who are not good equipped, will welcome this change, but Endgame Minis (will welcome it aswell) let's have some realtalk, we are at a point again where we are stacking Vitality to infinity. Right now 30% will equall 50.000 k of my Moral in a Raid. 20% are enough :=).
Gift/Legend of Hammerhand are fine, but Tanks get Huge bubbles now.


- Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement, Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
Don't you think all together this gets out of Hand? I don't know if it is right now at a 100% or on what value this will add. If the Value we have right now is 100% and all this adds up... This skill will do more damage than most of our actuall Damage Skills. You should buff alle our other Damage skills... Minstrell is doing the least damage now.


- Now we get to the Soliloquy of Spirit Change. That is the worst change ever, and we don't even get a trade for that. I thought of a lot of changes, but non of them included that you would change an immediate skill. These abilities are what defines a Minstrel right now. This was the most used ability a Minstrel had. It was the skill, if used right, which had the highest HPS, in a Boss encounter, by far. There was no skill coming near that healing output in Total. But this was only due to Soliloquy of Spirit being an instant skill. Now not being an instant skill will make the ability so useless, that it will only be used because of the 3% mitigation buff granted by the blue line Cap Stone "inner strength".
This change will drop our Total HPS by a lot. The buffs to all the other abilities are nice, but since the cooldown was increased aswell there will be a Minus in our HPS. And even tho HPS is not everything, group Healing will take a huge hit in my Opinion. ST healing may not suffer, from that change, as hard as group.
In my opinion revert that change, or make it an instant cast again, delete the Healing, make the mitigation standard, change the Capstone and fix that HoT from Rais the spirits granted by the trait "Rais our Spirits".


- The trait "Raise our Spirit" could be a pretty big "game" changer and maybe revert some opinions here if the Trait would actually work. So please look into that. We as players don't even know what the HoT looks like / was supposed to look like. We just see a trait, not working the way as in the Tooltip stated, with huge potential. Imagine it would be a HoT ticking every 3s for 7k in Tooltip. That would be a fair trade for all those increased cooldowns and the change to Soliloquy of Spirit.
But in the end it would be best reverting Soliloquy of Spirit.


- To end my Feedback I would like to say that all the Cooldowns increased make the howl Mini situation not better. Why make the Minstrel more slow as it already is. Give the Bolster Courage, if in your opinion it is really necessary, at least a 1s cd. Honestly there is no need for that. There is no need for any Cooldown increases. With all those changes the Minstrel will be slower than before, there will be more pauses between abilities because you are waiting for them to get off CD.
The increase of Coda Cooldown was not necessary, since it never made sence to use it again before the -inc Damage buff would expire and you put at least 2 points into the trait increasing the duration of that buff. Which means it is 10s long.
Inspire Fellows was our best group heal with low cooldown. The buff of healing is good, but 10s CD is too much. Increase Heal by 90% and increase Cooldown by 100%?! Someone explain the maths too me. It is not about the altitude it heals. It's the frequency or rather the amount it heals in a period of time. Minstrels don't have huge group heals like beornings. It's about the frequency and with those high cooldowns and the loss of group healing support through Soliloquy of Spirit
I don't see an increase or improvement in Minstrel healing.



It would've been the best to just buff some outgoing healing stuff and update skills and from there we could see if the Minstrel is too strong or needs a further buff. But that is just so much mess at the same time which wouldn't be necessary. I would rather wait a few weeks more (missing raid release) than just making quick changes.

Still thanks for the effort you are putting in.


PS: don't judge my spelling, there are probably some mistakes in the Text

[Aeviternus]

Yeah, I did know that the SoS interrupt change was going to cause some panic, so now that you've gotten over that initial surge, I'll take a moment to go into some detail on that.

The purpose behind it is two-fold:

1) It's much harder to balance a class when one of its primary mechanics is allows it to break the timing of most of its skills.
2) It puts a higher skill cap on the minstrel class than I believe is desirable for the game's core healer.

I have no problem with the occasional animation break - but animation timing is already one of the hardest things for us to keep track of and adjust on the technical side, so having a spammable skill that enables it just makes everything chaotic in a bad way for us.

The skill cap issue creates a different problem, where we can and do get complaints that a class is both significantly over-powered and under-powered at the same time. This can absolutely be true when there's a high skill cap, and especially so when that skill cap is dependent on understanding complex hidden mechanics like SoS animation breaking - our interface just doesn't provide any feedback for that sort of thing.

In short, *I* may have to write up massive spreadsheets in order to properly understand and work with our character classes - and some of you obviously enjoy doing the same in your spare time - but I'd really rather that most players not be required to. I want to try to keep most of the major mechanics visible to players wherever reasonably possible.

Anyhoo, I definitely want to further refine the balance between a few of the core skills to get them in a good place and I'm certainly considering the various arguments around the cool-down changes. I'm also going to see if I can do something about a few of the clunkier Minstrel anims, if possible. I'll try to get this stuff in front of you folks ASAP so that you can run some actual tests and see how it plays out in practice.

Regarding the low level DPS, I didn't get to run a lot of tests, but after normalization, my experience at level 50 was that your firepower was reduced from 'Death Star' magnitude to around 'Independence Day' levels of mass destruction? A dramatic decrease to be sure, but it didn't stop me from killing on-level elites without too much difficulty. They could just actually REACH me now, maybe take a few swings. What I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, though I'll definitely need feedback from a wider range of levels to be safe.

-Vastin

I totally agree with your philosophy on immediate skills, and I am happy to see you explain it here. Animation cutting on a 1.5s cooldown is silly.

To compensate for the removal of frequent animation cutting, perhaps the animations of some skills need to be sped up (Bolster Courage, Triumphant Spirit). Other than that, I once again applaud you for doing a good job with the classes you decide to work on.

[hanxcve]

Yeah, I did know that the SoS interrupt change was going to cause some panic, so now that you've gotten over that initial surge, I'll take a moment to go into some detail on that.

The purpose behind it is two-fold:

1) It's much harder to balance a class when one of its primary mechanics is allows it to break the timing of most of its skills.
2) It puts a higher skill cap on the minstrel class than I believe is desirable for the game's core healer.

I have no problem with the occasional animation break - but animation timing is already one of the hardest things for us to keep track of and adjust on the technical side, so having a spammable skill that enables it just makes everything chaotic in a bad way for us.

The skill cap issue creates a different problem, where we can and do get complaints that a class is both significantly over-powered and under-powered at the same time. This can absolutely be true when there's a high skill cap, and especially so when that skill cap is dependent on understanding complex hidden mechanics like SoS animation breaking - our interface just doesn't provide any feedback for that sort of thing.

In short, *I* may have to write up massive spreadsheets in order to properly understand and work with our character classes - and some of you obviously enjoy doing the same in your spare time - but I'd really rather that most players not be required to. I want to try to keep most of the major mechanics visible to players wherever reasonably possible.

Anyhoo, I definitely want to further refine the balance between a few of the core skills to get them in a good place and I'm certainly considering the various arguments around the cool-down changes. I'm also going to see if I can do something about a few of the clunkier Minstrel anims, if possible. I'll try to get this stuff in front of you folks ASAP so that you can run some actual tests and see how it plays out in practice.

Regarding the low level DPS, I didn't get to run a lot of tests, but after normalization, my experience at level 50 was that your firepower was reduced from 'Death Star' magnitude to around 'Independence Day' levels of mass destruction? A dramatic decrease to be sure, but it didn't stop me from killing on-level elites without too much difficulty. They could just actually REACH me now, maybe take a few swings. What I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, though I'll definitely need feedback from a wider range of levels to be safe.

-Vastin

But it will make the rotation and skill gap even less, you're missing the point, the less skills you have to press = less skill it takes to require to play the class. Please revert the SoS change you even stated you have no idea how to play mini

Healing with SoS:




Healing Without SoS and With these new changes:



You can see with the new changes mini will run out of skills to heal with and the consistency will turn to ####, also it feels even more boring. Please revert as no one asked for this
If there is a broken mechanic within the skill that allows it to be "exploited" then fix the exploit, don't ruin the whole class and rotation
The skill gap isn't also the problem, its the people who you listen to, you don't actually make it so people who are good at their class can give their feedback, you make it so even those who have mental ######ation can whine and cry about a class being too underpowered and give their stupid feedback

[Fureo]

Yeah, I did know that the SoS interrupt change was going to cause some panic, so now that you've gotten over that initial surge, I'll take a moment to go into some detail on that.

The purpose behind it is two-fold:

1) It's much harder to balance a class when one of its primary mechanics is allows it to break the timing of most of its skills.
2) It puts a higher skill cap on the minstrel class than I believe is desirable for the game's core healer.

I have no problem with the occasional animation break - but animation timing is already one of the hardest things for us to keep track of and adjust on the technical side, so having a spammable skill that enables it just makes everything chaotic in a bad way for us.

The skill cap issue creates a different problem, where we can and do get complaints that a class is both significantly over-powered and under-powered at the same time. This can absolutely be true when there's a high skill cap, and especially so when that skill cap is dependent on understanding complex hidden mechanics like SoS animation breaking - our interface just doesn't provide any feedback for that sort of thing.

In short, *I* may have to write up massive spreadsheets in order to properly understand and work with our character classes - and some of you obviously enjoy doing the same in your spare time - but I'd really rather that most players not be required to. I want to try to keep most of the major mechanics visible to players wherever reasonably possible.

Anyhoo, I definitely want to further refine the balance between a few of the core skills to get them in a good place and I'm certainly considering the various arguments around the cool-down changes. I'm also going to see if I can do something about a few of the clunkier Minstrel anims, if possible. I'll try to get this stuff in front of you folks ASAP so that you can run some actual tests and see how it plays out in practice.

Regarding the low level DPS, I didn't get to run a lot of tests, but after normalization, my experience at level 50 was that your firepower was reduced from 'Death Star' magnitude to around 'Independence Day' levels of mass destruction? A dramatic decrease to be sure, but it didn't stop me from killing on-level elites without too much difficulty. They could just actually REACH me now, maybe take a few swings. What I'm saying is, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, though I'll definitely need feedback from a wider range of levels to be safe.

-Vastin

Those interrupts were THE fun thing with the Mini and sorry, but that wasn't hard to learn.

The skill gap is what makes people improve, makes them better. There won't be any progress now since there isn't much to learn about the minstrel class. No progress was never good

What i missed in my post was, then delete the healing on SoS and add the Mitigation buff as standard and then change the capstone

Just don't delete the instant mechanic... just don't...
If some say this is crying ... it actually is

[Unknowned]

The changes sound good. People are just crying because they wont be able to ''shortcut'' skills anymore. Its not much of a delay. It wont kill you.

[CaerArianrhod]

- I *am* looking for some significant group heal improvements, and hopefully more rotation options to achieve good throughput.

With some of the thing you are going to change, you do quite the opposite as it was requested and as it would be needed for the class.

- Healers strike group heal increased by ~540%
- Major Ballad group heal increased by ~480%

This looks OK, BUTplease play the endgame instance content!)
1) In 90% of the cases you simple do not go in melee as a minstrel, not even for Healer's Strike.
2) Major Ballad has only 8m radius! That is very little if you want bring this skill into a rotation as a considerable group-healing skill. Increase it to 12m.

- Improved Chord of Salvation group heal component increased by ~300%, cooldown increased (10->15s)
- Inspire Fellows heal increased by ~90%, cooldown increased (5->10s)

- Coda of Resonance Heal increased by ~150%, cooldown increased (1->10s)
- Coda of Melody's heal increased by ~130%.

Improved Chord of Salvation: 12 seconds please, 15s is really to long!
Inspire Fellows: ONLY OK, if you increase the radius of major ballad to 12m (at least!)
Changes to codas: ONLY OK if you make stance change immediate (please remove the induction from stance change!)
(Question: Does apply the change to cooldown to Coda of Resonance to Coda of Melody's and Coda of Fury too? I guess: yes)

- Raise the Spirit heal increased by ~180%

What about the bugged group heal component if traited from yellow?

- Bolster Courage heal increased by ~15%, cooldown increased to 3s.
- Soliloquy of Spirit is no longer Immediate and will not interrupt other skill animations.

This two changes are diametrically opposed to what pleyers were asking for a long time.
Would you be so kind to talk to the instance designer to ask them to remove dinamics/the necessity of movement from instance fights.
With the long and now not interruptable animiations of minstrel skills, you foil your other changes.

- Perfect Ending heal increased by ~40%
- Triumphant Spirit heal increased by ~10%
- Legend of Hammerhand's expiry heal is now 2% of each fellowship member's max morale (per bubble that expires)
- Story of Courage no longer has an induction - it is now a Fast skill.
- Song of Hammerhand bubble magnitude increased (10%->30% Max Vital)
- Gift/Legend of Hammerhand bubble magnitudes increased (10%->20% Max Vital)
- Spirit of Freedom is now Immediate and features a faster animation.

OK.

- Healers/Heroes/Dissonant strike damage increased by ~800%, now draws their base dmg from tactical implement.
- Dissonant strike now does Light damage like the other two strikes.
- All Ballad damage increased by ~40%.

OK, but no-one cares about this changes in blue.

[Imbrahil]

Hey @Vastin,

So all the buffs to outgoing healing are nice, but...

Overall, I wholeheartedly agree with these remarks.
Especially the explanations on Soliloquy of Spirit are very apt.

Please, Vastin, don't disregard the feedback from experienced minstrel players and keep their comments and suggestions in mind when making further changes.

[Karnage_Arkenstone]

But it will make the rotation and skill gap even less, you're missing the point, the less skills you have to press = less skill it takes to require to play the class. Please revert the SoS change you even stated you have no idea how to play mini

Healing with SoS:




Healing Without SoS and With these new changes:



You can see with the new changes mini will run out of skills to heal with and the consistency will turn to ####, also it feels even more boring. Please revert as no one asked for this
If there is a broken mechanic within the skill that allows it to be "exploited" then fix the exploit, don't ruin the whole class and rotation
The skill gap isn't also the problem, its the people who you listen to, you don't actually make it so people who are good at their class can give their feedback, you make it so even those who have mental ######ation can whine and cry about a class being too underpowered and give their stupid feedback

I 100% stand with everything that has been mentioned and shown here. Anyone with a brain would too.