I have the feeling that LI cosmetics will only be available in the store

[Fegefeuer]

I was randomly thinking today and I thought this could be a possibility so I just create a thread to raise awareness to people about this possibility and hopefully that someone from SSG can confirm/deny this suspect.

This suspect came because I remember I was searching for specific cosmetics that I found in the ItemTreasury plugin that supposedly were Moria LIs but they were removed. Later I learnt that these cosmetics could be found in the store.

Is this what SSG plans? Remove all old LIs from the game (barters, crafting etc) and then make them as skins to sell in the store? This would be a master plan from business perspective because selling cosmetics in the store is not bad at all, but what is bad is that you remove these items that exist in the game for many years and you only can get them in the store if you follow this suspect.

I remember when SSG removed steel keys (the normal ones), and items like tomes of defence, xp tomes etc now are only store items. I remember people asked them multiple times (me included) if they plan to add a barter NPC to get these items in game. Never happened.

I hope I'm wrong with my suspect but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm right.

[Raninia]

I don't personally know what LI skins have been removed and which are available on the store, but definitely atm, players can still get the Moria LI skins on live, so you have time to grab them. We also don't have specific plans as to how we'll be bringing them back yet, it's something that's lower priority for us at the moment than the functionality and balance work that we've been focused on.

[Strider5548]

I don't personally know what LI skins have been removed and which are available on the store, but definitely atm, players can still get the Moria LI skins on live, so you have time to grab them. We also don't have specific plans as to how we'll be bringing them back yet, it's something that's lower priority for us at the moment than the functionality and balance work that we've been focused on.

Just want to point out that Treebeard won't have this opportunity to pick them up now. I don't think this should be a priority relative to everything else, but it would be nice to have existing LI cosmetics available in the future using an in-game currency.

[Legondil96]

I don't personally know what LI skins have been removed and which are available on the store, but definitely atm, players can still get the Moria LI skins on live, so you have time to grab them. We also don't have specific plans as to how we'll be bringing them back yet, it's something that's lower priority for us at the moment than the functionality and balance work that we've been focused on.

Your so called rebalance and less grind making is #### you know you just did this to make the game more raider so the very least you could do os let us average joes have the old li cosmetics in the skirm camp and not the store. Your new li system is not only a travesty from hell but the weapons are ugly..

[Fegefeuer]

I don't personally know what LI skins have been removed and which are available on the store, but definitely atm, players can still get the Moria LI skins on live, so you have time to grab them. We also don't have specific plans as to how we'll be bringing them back yet, it's something that's lower priority for us at the moment than the functionality and balance work that we've been focused on.

I suggest you to take a look at the cosmetic weapons in the store, the skins that are in there are supposedly from LI items from Moria, because I can find these items with the ItemTreasury plugin and they have the Moria level range, but they are no longer adquirable in game. If you don't have plans as to how you will bring back the items, then DO NOT REMOVE THE ITEMS UNTIL YOU DO IT. It's crazy that you say "the LI skins are on live, so get them now you have time", and you don't provide your plan about how you will bring them back. Do not remove these items until you have the plan. And I don't only talk about Moria LIs. Also crafted LIs, dropped LIs (like in Dar Narbugud or Filikul), LIs in other barters like the Roving threats etc... I understand that it's lower priority because balance is higher priority but just amazing that you say "get them now that you have time". It just enforces my suspects that they will end being only in the store.

[Arnenna]

I was randomly thinking today and I thought this could be a possibility so I just create a thread to raise awareness to people about this possibility and hopefully that someone from SSG can confirm/deny this suspect.

This suspect came because I remember I was searching for specific cosmetics that I found in the ItemTreasury plugin that supposedly were Moria LIs but they were removed. Later I learnt that these cosmetics could be found in the store.

Is this what SSG plans? Remove all old LIs from the game (barters, crafting etc) and then make them as skins to sell in the store? This would be a master plan from business perspective because selling cosmetics in the store is not bad at all, but what is bad is that you remove these items that exist in the game for many years and you only can get them in the store if you follow this suspect.

I remember when SSG removed steel keys (the normal ones), and items like tomes of defence, xp tomes etc now are only store items. I remember people asked them multiple times (me included) if they plan to add a barter NPC to get these items in game. Never happened.

I hope I'm wrong with my suspect but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm right.

I have to admit, my first reaction when I read the news on cosmetic LI's was . . . . . Elor, all over again. They used lootboxes to re-introduce the much sought after two handed sword that people asked for. They later moved it to the curator iirc for figment barter, so it's still very limited.

[Arnenna]

I don't personally know what LI skins have been removed and which are available on the store, but definitely atm, players can still get the Moria LI skins on live, so you have time to grab them. We also don't have specific plans as to how we'll be bringing them back yet, it's something that's lower priority for us at the moment than the functionality and balance work that we've been focused on.

Do you know how long it would take to grind out all those Emblems to barter for all the first agers available at those NPC's. There are chest locks involved. The new LI launch would need to be delayed some for people to do as you suggest.
Why remove the old items at all? That's just Dev hours to remove them right? They don't eat or drink anything sitting at a barter point.

[Joedangod]

Do you know how long it would take to grind out all those Emblems to barter for all the first agers available at those NPC's. There are chest locks involved. The new LI launch would need to be delayed some for people to do as you suggest.
Why remove the old items at all? That's just Dev hours to remove them right? They don't eat or drink anything sitting at a barter point.

They're likely trying to smooth out the 50-130 LI experience for new characters. Running into 3 different LI systems on the way to 130 would be confusing to say the least, instead they remove all references to the old stuff so now you only ever see the new system. The one system experience is 100% better than the random multi-system situation. That doesn't mean it's without cost, it just means they've accepted the cost as "worth it".

[Raninia]

They're likely trying to smooth out the 50-130 LI experience for new characters. Running into 3 different LI systems on the way to 130 would be confusing to say the least, instead they remove all references to the old stuff so now you only ever see the new system. The one system experience is 100% better than the random multi-system situation. That doesn't mean it's without cost, it just means they've accepted the cost as "worth it".

Basically this. We don't want new characters getting to the point that they can engage with the LIs - such as on Treebeard - potentially trying to engage with a system that we're sunsetting in the future. We'd rather get those players used to the new levelling experience with the LI system.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Selling more LI skins as cosmetics in the Lotro store would be great, I wouldn't mind at all if that's the only way to get them, cause cosmetics sell well in games, I'd rather see this in the store then more buffs that help with raids/instances...

[Fegefeuer]

I have to admit, my first reaction when I read the news on cosmetic LI's was . . . . . Elor, all over again. They used lootboxes to re-introduce the much sought after two handed sword that people asked for. They later moved it to the curator iirc for figment barter, so it's still very limited.

I don't know what is worse, if old cosmetic LIs are only in store or they are in the curator. Either way it will be a great loss for the playerbase if any of these happen.

I can understand your reasoning about not wanting that new players interact with old systems, then the solution is DELAYING the LI update until you have every major stuff solved - and what to do with the old items is a major stuff, aswell as what will happen with empowerments and for what you can exchange, what about bridles, and many other questions I asked in other thread and got zero replies from bluenames...

@Pontin I agree that selling weapon skins in the store is nice, but not at the cost of deleting already existing skins that are earnable in the game

[maartena]

I don't personally know what LI skins have been removed and which are available on the store, but definitely atm, players can still get the Moria LI skins on live, so you have time to grab them. We also don't have specific plans as to how we'll be bringing them back yet, it's something that's lower priority for us at the moment than the functionality and balance work that we've been focused on.

Please let us know when we can grab them on Treebeard.... I am not worried about Arkenstone or Anor or other servers I have played on, because I got the ones I wanted and added them to my wardrobe.

But.... I cannot transfer wardrobe to Treebeard, and it would seem that the new LI system will go live BEFORE Treebeard gets to Moria.

Usually when SSG says "lower priority" or "something we would like to do" it means there is no real plan, there is no timeline, and it is likely not happening anytime soon. So, can you just re-enable the vendors and a way to still get them and disable the vendors at some later date?

[Arnenna]

Selling more LI skins as cosmetics in the Lotro store would be great, I wouldn't mind at all if that's the only way to get them, cause cosmetics sell well in games, I'd rather see this in the store then more buffs that help with raids/instances...

Cosmetics in store is a good thing, but bright, new and fresh ones, not old game assets. And definitely not lootbox/figment driven.

[Harvain]

Cosmetics in store is a good thing, but bright, new and fresh ones, not old game assets. And definitely not lootbox/figment driven.

Yeah, anything removed as of Update 30.3 should be available within the game itself in a different but within reason to get fashion that is not Lootbox, Figment or Curator Options as some were available for a very long time.

Newer Cosmetics for Legendary Weapons by all means can be a LOTRO Store thing.

[ertr]

I don't personally know what LI skins have been removed and which are available on the store, but definitely atm, players can still get the Moria LI skins on live, so you have time to grab them. We also don't have specific plans as to how we'll be bringing them back yet, it's something that's lower priority for us at the moment than the functionality and balance work that we've been focused on.

That is poor planning from your side I think. That old LI skins and such may not be available right from the launch of the new LI system, that is one thing.
But you really should have some decently detailed plans for what you want to do with the old LI skins, as well as various old barter tokens for LIs and everything else LI related that will be obsoleted by the new system. And those plans should exist before the new LI system is launched for real.

Partly to be able to answer questions, but far more important is that when you go through and plan what to do with all old LI-related stuff I am quite sure you will find something that will cause an issue and that you will need to adjust the new system to handle. I have no idea what those issues will be, but I am quite sure there will be some and they will be easiest to handle before the new system is released.

And on that note, this new LI system will touch so many aspects of the game that I really, really hope it will not be rushed in any way. Released when ready, not when some arbitrary deadline approaches. If that means it takes a month or two extra to shake out the bugs, then so be it. Far better that than releasing a buggy system that will take forever to fix.

[shino047]

Yes please cosmetic items should be added to the store. At the same time please remove all the pay-to-win buffs from there that cannot be aquired anywhere else in game.

[wrath247]

Your so called rebalance and less grind making is #### you know you just did this to make the game more raider so the very least you could do os let us average joes have the old li cosmetics in the skirm camp and not the store. Your new li system is not only a travesty from hell but the weapons are ugly..

well ideally when moving away from an unlock based revenue, the norm is to charge for cosmetics in the store.

But I do agree that the old LI skins should probably not be under that category, as it was a free cosmetic option from the beginning.

[wispsong]

Won't the new LIs need skins? So why not use the old model and put the new "engine" on it? That way players will only interact with one system but have a chance on the existing skins.
Do we even know how we get new LIs if we already did the intro? Wouldn't a simple "exchange" been an easier way as we basically had after imbuement?

While I think I will prefer the new system due to the LI dps actually growing with us through reforge there are still to many questions to be answered and to many uncertainties. But to me it seems a "simple" conversion from the old to the new would be easier (including LI items to be changed into the new ones). it is not very encouraging to read that my red mini looses dps which at this point might just be due to unfinished work.

[Joedangod]

Won't the new LIs need skins? So why not use the old model and put the new "engine" on it? That way players will only interact with one system but have a chance on the existing skins.

New system only needs 1 skin for each weapon type (and they're adding brand new skins for most of that). They could've recycled old skins for that...but which old skins specifically would you have insisted on and what happens to the rest? Losing access to cosmetics for a while isn't exactly a major issue, especially considering the intention is for them to return at some point.

it is not very encouraging to read that my red mini looses dps which at this point might just be due to unfinished work.

You've read a somewhat problematic post that makes a boatload of assumptions with no evidence for any of said assumptions. If you ignored all of the written text on that post and just looked at the before/after tooltip values for the actual skills you'd notice that the new LI system is a slight DPS boost, not a loss.