Tactical Damage Bug

[Markbjorn]

Something is very wrong with the change to tactical damage.
DPS is drop to 60% compared to Beta 1
Last week during Beta 1 my runekeeper dps is around 190k-210k
Now on Beta 2 my runekeeper dps is around 120k-140k

This is at level 140 with teal gear etc

[Digaloo]

I've just copied my runekeeper over to Bullroarer and done a compare of my old maxed out legendarys compared to my new ones all with incomparable traceries enhanced to 440/449

This is what I found :

Skill--------------------Old Legs----New Legs

Essay of Fire----------47-67k-------42-61k
Essence of Flame----152-193k----117-149k
Smouldering Wrath--156-173k----141-157k

I agree there is something definitely wrong with Runekeeper damage

[shino047]

RIP XDDDDD

but seriously who cares about RK, next lvl cap is also gonna be champ meta

[Alledhun]

Your stats are going to be too low for 140 with just the PvMP gear, the stat caps have increased so your overall % from the Tmastery will not be at 200% like it is currently.

[Digaloo]

I don't think that's the point that the OP was making.

The 'relative' damage has gone DOWN not up since the update.

I've found the same thing

[Hengiliath]

RIP XDDDDD

but seriously who cares about RK, next lvl cap is also gonna be champ meta

Where and what is champ meta?

[CaerArianrhod]

Something is very wrong with the change to tactical damage.
DPS is drop to 60% compared to Beta 1
Last week during Beta 1 my runekeeper dps is around 190k-210k
Now on Beta 2 my runekeeper dps is around 120k-140k

Patch note for Beta 2 says "Bumped the tactical damage bonus on new LI's 10% going into Gundabad to bring them more in line with the bump that physical damage weapons got."
It seems that this bump was gone down the way and not up.

[flirtswithmediocrity]

looking at the skill smoldering wrath.

on Live ( lvl 130 ) with capped mastery/crit

smoldering wrath = 243k average per hit with 55% crit rate ( against a lvl 130 dummy )

on BR ( lvl 140 ) with lvl 130 mastery/crit

smoldering wrath = 117k average per hit with 28% crit rate ( against a lvl 140 dummy )

The big reasons for the difference are :

1) Crit rate, as we know we can't cap crit rate at lvl 140 yet, BR tactical crit rate was 9.5%, Live was 30%
2) Crit magnitude, crit magnitude on BR for me on this tests was 8.2%, Live is 31.7%
3) Mastery bonus, 200% on live vs 94% on BR
4) Dummy mitigations, using the dwarf skill "headbut" dummy mitigation at lvl 140 on bullroarer is 58% ( why is this not 40% like we have had since I can remember ? )

The difference between 40% target mitation and 58% target mitgation is a ~ 42% dps change. I imagine this mitigation is what has changed.

[Markbjorn]

My crit is 22% and my tactical mastery is 160% at lv140

Last week during Beta 1 my dps was 190k-210k on dummy
Now without changing anything my dps is 120k-140k on the same dummy

[Vastin]

My crit is 22% and my tactical mastery is 160% at lv140

Last week during Beta 1 my dps was 190k-210k on dummy
Now without changing anything my dps is 120k-140k on the same dummy

There was a mob mitigation tweak needed in order to bring the mobs in line with the new ratings values - they were still using an older data set, this affected most of their other ratings as well (BPE, Resist, etc).

That's been fixed, but won't be in BR yet.

The bump to tactical dps weapon base was applied to weapons of ilevel 450+, so you won't see any change from that <449. Though I'm weighing whether that change should be retroactive to ilvl 400 or so.

I *am* however hearing reports of a direct ~5% drop in tactical dps skill tooltips for characters AT 130 between Live and BR with otherwise identical stats. None of the balances changes for 131+ should be relevant to the 130's, so that's definitely not intended, and we're trying to figure out where that came from.

- Vastin

[Hephburz-2]

There was a mob mitigation tweak needed in order to bring the mobs in line with the new ratings values - they were still using an older data set, this affected most of their other ratings as well (BPE, Resist, etc).

That's been fixed, but won't be in BR yet.

The bump to tactical dps weapon base was applied to weapons of ilevel 450+, so you won't see any change from that <449. Though I'm weighing whether that change should be retroactive to ilvl 400 or so.

I *am* however hearing reports of a direct ~5% drop in tactical dps skill tooltips for characters AT 130 between Live and BR with otherwise identical stats. None of the balances changes for 131+ should be relevant to the 130's, so that's definitely not intended, and we're trying to figure out where that came from.

- Vastin

RK damage in general is significantly weaker moving forward into the new LI system. Where before RKs were somewhat on par or at least closer to the other classes, that is no longer the case and once again, the class is at the bottom of the pecking order...

[Tullkas]

RK damage in general is significantly weaker moving forward into the new LI system. Where before RKs were somewhat on par or at least closer to the other classes, that is no longer the case and once again, the class is at the bottom of the pecking order...

Not only at the bottom but doing less than half of other DPS class's. They need huge buffs to be on par or near par with other class's. Even tank classes out DPS RKs.

[Vastin]

RK's had a number of unusually large legacy bonuses to their skills that were changed to be more in line with the other classes, and I did NOT give them nearly enough of a skill effect bump to make up for that, so that's in the works now - probably will take more than one pass to get them where they want to be, but I'll stay on it.

I'll just take all that extra hunter dps and transfer it over to RKs. That should sort things out.

-Vastin

[Tullkas]

RK's had a number of unusually large legacy bonuses to their skills that were changed to be more in line with the other classes, and I did NOT give them nearly enough of a skill effect bump to make up for that, so that's in the works now - probably will take more than one pass to get them where they want to be, but I'll stay on it.

I'll just take all that extra hunter dps and transfer it over to RKs. That should sort things out.

-Vastin

Thanks Vastin appreciate the work and time you put in trying to balance out class's and keep the player base happy.

[JERH]

There was a mob mitigation tweak needed in order to bring the mobs in line with the new ratings values - they were still using an older data set, this affected most of their other ratings as well (BPE, Resist, etc).

- Vastin

I have noticed a very big difference melee champ experience between live 130 and BR 131 on elite, elite+, and definitely boss mobs on-level (live 130-130, BR 131-131). Even with an almost 30% increase in tooltip on BR vs live (reforging@131) the mobs are very much harder to kill on BR. Same instance, same mobs between live and BR. I'm not sure what the tweak was but hope that 58% was worse than 40% and thus it will be later corrected appropriately. Oh well, if not then continue as planned. Full Speed ahead!

[cbfan14]

There was a mob mitigation tweak needed in order to bring the mobs in line with the new ratings values - they were still using an older data set, this affected most of their other ratings as well (BPE, Resist, etc).

That's been fixed, but won't be in BR yet.

The bump to tactical dps weapon base was applied to weapons of ilevel 450+, so you won't see any change from that <449. Though I'm weighing whether that change should be retroactive to ilvl 400 or so.

I *am* however hearing reports of a direct ~5% drop in tactical dps skill tooltips for characters AT 130 between Live and BR with otherwise identical stats. None of the balances changes for 131+ should be relevant to the 130's, so that's definitely not intended, and we're trying to figure out where that came from.

- Vastin

I was wondering what happened with the mob resistance stats, because resist rates were off the charts! I'm glad it's something being worked on. Thank you very much for keeping us informed!

[tanlis]

RK's had a number of unusually large legacy bonuses to their skills that were changed to be more in line with the other classes, and I did NOT give them nearly enough of a skill effect bump to make up for that, so that's in the works now - probably will take more than one pass to get them where they want to be, but I'll stay on it.

I'll just take all that extra hunter dps and transfer it over to RKs. That should sort things out.

-Vastin

Don't you dare touch my hunter DPS. :P It's the only thing we're good at.

[Dorengrod89]

RK's had a number of unusually large legacy bonuses to their skills that were changed to be more in line with the other classes, and I did NOT give them nearly enough of a skill effect bump to make up for that, so that's in the works now - probably will take more than one pass to get them where they want to be, but I'll stay on it.

I'll just take all that extra hunter dps and transfer it over to RKs. That should sort things out.

-Vastin

What extra hunter DPS? You're nerfing them to the ground in the beta.

[Galathror]

What extra hunter DPS? You're nerfing them to the ground in the beta.

Don't be so overdramatic, that isn't true lol

[Dorengrod89]

Don't be so overdramatic, that isn't true lol

Funny, when champs were nerfed and cried all over this forum, no one called them overdramatic. Now the hunters are getting a significant decrease in damage (when they are not a preferred dps class to begin with, now making them even less so) and we complain about it, we're overdramatic? Okay lmao

[Hephburz-2]

Funny, when champs were nerfed and cried all over this forum, no one called them overdramatic. Now the hunters are getting a significant decrease in damage (when they are not a preferred dps class to begin with, now making them even less so) and we complain about it, we're overdramatic? Okay lmao

Because they are currently out-performing every other single class in ST. They are not the preferred DPS class because the content we have is not friendly to them, you could up their DPS 10fold and they still wouldn't be the desired pick because the current content isn't designed for them, which is a sad truth, but, still the truth. Their DPS needs a nerf, whether you agree or not, they do, and whether you agree or not, RKs need a damage buff. Two inescapable facts.

(And it isn't a significant decrease).

[Dorengrod89]

Because they are currently out-performing every other single class in ST. They are not the preferred DPS class because the content we have is not friendly to them, you could up their DPS 10fold and they still wouldn't be the desired pick because the current content isn't designed for them, which is a sad truth, but, still the truth. Their DPS needs a nerf, whether you agree or not, they do, and whether you agree or not, RKs need a damage buff. Two inescapable facts.

(And it isn't a significant decrease).

It's like you are speaking but not hearing yourself. Of course they should be out-performing every single class in ST, because *that is what hunters are made for*. They are not a support class, a healing class, a tanking class, they are a ST dps class and will probably stay that for a while. So, why take their *main thing* nerfed? RKs need a dps bump, sure, but they will still be called into content to heal if the DPS side fails. I should know, I have an endgame RK as well. The two classes having their dps is not mutually exclusive. Champs outperform every class in AOE, which is their main utility, and are pretty OP at it, but I don't se that being called out anywhere, do you?

My hunter can easily do t5 content even on a 3-mans now because their dps is finally where it should be and can complete these things without a champ in the group. Why are you so pressed to see that taken away?

[Chris91]

Can we please not turn every thread into a Hunter thread? This is about RKs..

Vastin made a joke that Hunters are definitely overtuned on live and probably still somewhat on Beta and you guys stormed in to cry and take over the thread

[Hephburz-2]

It's like you are speaking but not hearing yourself. Of course they should be out-performing every single class in ST, because *that is what hunters are made for*. They are not a support class, a healing class, a tanking class, they are a ST dps class and will probably stay that for a while. So, why take their *main thing* nerfed? RKs need a dps bump, sure, but they will still be called into content to heal if the DPS side fails. I should know, I have an endgame RK as well. The two classes having their dps is not mutually exclusive. Champs outperform every class in AOE, which is their main utility, and are pretty OP at it, but I don't se that being called out anywhere, do you?

My hunter can easily do t5 content even on a 3-mans now because their dps is finally where it should be and can complete these things without a champ in the group. Why are you so pressed to see that taken away?

Oh please. You have no clue what you are talking about lol.

Hunters were still the highest-ST DPS class before the LI changes, and could still easily do t5 content (outside of FOKD T5 which they're still unlikely to get into), they just weren't favoured because other classes out-perform them in the content we have (but not in terms of DPS, just in terms of what they bring to the fight overall), NOT because their individual DPS was bad. Now, after the changes the content we have (again, outside of FOKD T5) is so unbelievably trivial it doesn't matter who you take lol, and it has nothing to do with Hunters getting a DPS bump, you were ahead in ST DPS before the changes, and you still are now, but NOW you are way too far ahead of everyone else, that yes, you need to be nerfed.

[Dorengrod89]

Oh please. You have no clue what you are talking about lol.

Everything you wrote after this proved that you are the one who doesn't know what you're talking about, so my discussion with you ends here. Toodles.