On the Pronunciation of Mitheithel

[egarthur]

There seems to be significant confusion over the proper pronunciation of Mitheithel (as in, the upcoming zone, Angle of Mitheithel).

One thing that is clear is that the "eithel" part of the name is from the Sindarin for spring, well, or some other water source.

https://tolkienlanguages.fandom.com/wiki/Sindarin has a generic pronunciation guide, under which the diphthong "ei" is pronounced like the vowel sound in "day". So, eithel would be something like "ay-th-ehl".

https://www.elfdict.com/w/eithel/s gives the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) for eithel as ei?el, whereas https://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/sindar gives ?j??l.

There is an online IPA pronouncer app at http://ipa-reader.xyz/, with several different speakers from which to choose. The two different inputs -- ei?el and ?j??l -- give strikingly different results: ei?el has two vowel sounds before the consonant, whereas ?j??l only one.

In any case, can someone at SSG and/or who knows Sindarin pronunciation, clarify? Since we're going to be saying this name a lot in the near future, it would help to know how to do so correctly.

Or, just call it by its Race of Man name -- Hoarwell -- since I don't think anyone would debate that pronunciation.

EDIT: The special IPA characters appear to have not come through. One would have to consult the sources linked above. Sorry, they were there in the preview...

[Radhruin_EU]

That locale's generally referred to as 'the Angle' so that's easily avoided

(I'd say mi-thay-thel, though, for what it's worth)

[auximenes]

I'm assuming it's mith-EYE-thel.

[Radhruin_EU]

I'm assuming it's mith-EYE-thel.

'ei' should come out -ay- as in 'day' (works the same as it would in Welsh)

the 'i in 'mi' is short, 'th' is like it is in 'together', and the 'l' is drawn out at the end (rather like the -el on the end of 'La Tour Eiffel', if you give that its French pronunciation)

(as I understand it, anyway)

[Xandarien_PoTI]

There seems to be significant confusion over the proper pronunciation of Mitheithel (as in, the upcoming zone, Angle of Mitheithel).

One thing that is clear is that the "eithel" part of the name is from the Sindarin for spring, well, or some other water source.

https://tolkienlanguages.fandom.com/wiki/Sindarin has a generic pronunciation guide, under which the diphthong "ei" is pronounced like the vowel sound in "day". So, eithel would be something like "ay-th-ehl".

https://www.elfdict.com/w/eithel/s gives the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) for eithel as ei?el, whereas https://www.jrrvf.com/hisweloke/sindar gives ?j??l.

There is an online IPA pronouncer app at http://ipa-reader.xyz/, with several different speakers from which to choose. The two different inputs -- ei?el and ?j??l -- give strikingly different results: ei?el has two vowel sounds before the consonant, whereas ?j??l only one.

In any case, can someone at SSG and/or who knows Sindarin pronunciation, clarify? Since we're going to be saying this name a lot in the near future, it would help to know how to do so correctly.

Or, just call it by its Race of Man name -- Hoarwell -- since I don't think anyone would debate that pronunciation.

EDIT: The special IPA characters appear to have not come through. One would have to consult the sources linked above. Sorry, they were there in the preview...

Hi, I've taught Sindarin for about 12 years.
To break it down letter by letter -
M - as in 'mother'
I - as in 'sick'
TH - as in 'thing, thought'. (To reply to Radhruin above, the TH found in 'these, those' is spelt DH in Sindarin)
EI - as in the vowel sound in 'day, hay'
TH - as above
E - as in 'bed, let'
L - clear as in 'let, lit'

[DavidmeetHal]

You teach Sindarin? That is cool beyond words.

[Radhruin_EU]

TH - as in 'thing, thought'. (To reply to Radhruin above, the TH found in 'these, those' is spelt DH in Sindarin)

Alas, serves me right for posting too early in the day!

[Cordovan]

So it sounds like the pronouncer would be mih-THAY-thel?

[Radhruin_EU]

So it sounds like the pronouncer would be mih-THAY-thel?

mith'ay-thel, I think

[Snowlock]

Or as Mike Tyson puts it, "my sea shell".

[Thurallor]

Here's my best guess after reading this thread: http://ipa-reader.xyz/?text=m%C9%AA%...9l&voice=Brian

Secondary guess: http://ipa-reader.xyz/?text=m%C9%AA%...el&voice=Brian

[Belnavar]

Mith-ay-thel.

I think most players will just call it "the Angle," however.

-Bel

[Hoppa_Joel]

... unfortunately, from saying this outloud, it sounds like I am saying " Miss Ethel" with a very heavy Southern accent... and a lisp.
I think, this will be forever stuck in my head now!

[Hallandil]

... unfortunately, from saying this outloud, it sounds like I am saying " Miss Ethel" with a very heavy Southern accent... and a lisp.
I think, this will be forever stuck in my head now!

Pretty accurate tbh. Mitff-Eyy-thell

[Cordovan]

mith'ay-thel, I think

Sorry, I'm an old radio person, I wrote it broadcast style.

[Hallandil]

... unfortunately, from saying this outloud, it sounds like I am saying " Miss Ethel" with a very heavy Southern accent... and a lisp.
I think, this will be forever stuck in my head now!

That being said, saying the full thing "Misth Eythel, the Ayngel of the Loudwater" sounds like a Southern Belle that lives on a plantation.

[Hoppa_Joel]

That being said, saying the full thing "Misth Eythel, the Ayngel of the Loudwater" sounds like a Southern Belle that lives on a plantation.

Yep.. this is going to a a nightmare on my lotro streams, for anyone watching... me doing this accent.... I know I will not be able to stop it now!

hehehehehe

That Mithy Ethel, she is the Angle o' the Loudwater!