Concerning Vocations

[Bromlin]

Greetings,

as a founding member of LotRO with a LTA I was ever unhappy with the vocation system.

I understand that it was introduced to encourage player interaction. I don't think this point is valid anymore, since you can bypass this simply by playing alts, which most players do.

My main argument is that some combinations are simply useless for certain chars. Example: I just started a Hobbit lore-master (thanks for making this possible btw) and would love to have him become a scholar. But when I choose this, I have to take weaponsmith which is almost useless for this char and doesn't fit to his RP background. How I would love him to become a cook instead, or maybe a tailor, or even a woodworker. Anything that would be more fitting for this specific char in my point of view.

So I would suggest you re-invent this whole vocation system. If I could have my way, I would allow free combinations of all professions. But I could also live with certain limitations, as long as you have more possible combinations. Most vocations have two professions which are tied together somehow, as scholar + farmer, tailor + forester or metalsmith + prospector. It would be a good idea to have the third profession selectable out of a pool of variants, for example historian = scholar + farmer + pick one of the following: weaponsmith, cook, woodworker.

Please think about it. Thanks for reading.

[Loox]

I'm pretty sure you keep any vocation you have earned when you switch to another.

So, if you earn multiple or all vocations you can switch between all of them as you see fit.

Maybe someone else can confirm this?

[Ereglam]

I'm pretty sure you keep any vocation you have earned when you switch to another.

So, if you earn multiple or all vocations you can switch between all of them as you see fit.

Maybe someone else can confirm this?

If you change vocation you'll keep progress of identical professions but will loose all progress of the others.

e.g. scholar to hunter will keep farmer progress, but the rest will be lost. Changing back you'll have an empty slate for studies and weapon smithing.

And you will get the introduction per profession only once...

QED

PS:
I wouldn't mind having had the choice of professions (with limitations), either.

[Nebless]

I'm pretty sure you keep any vocation you have earned when you switch to another.

So, if you earn multiple or all vocations you can switch between all of them as you see fit.

Maybe someone else can confirm this?

Nope. You can ONLY know / use 3 crafts at a time. You even get a warning blurb when you go to change vocations that warns you you'll lose all progress in the old one's (that don't carry over like Ereglam pointed out.

[Carallot]

Why not the following?

You start with 2 professions in a vocation (so we avoid stupid decisions for new players in lower levels, like avoiding a gathering profession).

When your 2 are "Master Expert" you can add a 3rd.

When your 3 are "Supreme Master" you can add a 4th.

When the 4th becomes "Supreme Master" too then a 5th can be added, and go on adding...

Later "Proficiencies" I would call them "Regional Specializations" as their names are related to regions.

A penalization in slower advance for professions starting with the 3rd (1 and 2 no penalization) as they are "out of vocation".

You cannot "forget" professions but you may get special items for getting faster better levels (so SSG can monetize the change).

Also would be nice that lower level crafting items are (more) needed later so they are less useless and low level players can get something from these.

Edit: Oopsie! Mental confusion of "class" with "profession". Solved!

[Bromlin]

Yes, why not? I don't have a specific solution to the "vocation problem" in mind, so I'm fundamentally open to any new approach. Anything that makes the profession system more flexible and creative and takes away the limitations of the old system would be most welcome. I've been a bit of a crafting nerd in most MMOs I've played and this is really an important aspect of the game for me, so yes please, create something fresh and new! Or just let me drop weaponsmith for something different as a historian. I'd be happy with anything.

[Pewpewmidget]

I like the idea of customizable vocations, or even new options.
And I also like the idea of being able to pick up additional crafts as you advance.
However, I wouldn't place them all so close to each other.

You can choose to become a gatherer (forester/prospector) or any other gather/craftsman options (i,e. prospector/metalsmith) to begin with.
Then as you become a Grand Master of your craft or a certain character level and Grand Master in both gathering skills, you will be given the option to pick another craft.

Example: lvl 50 GM Forester/Prospector can now choose to pick up on weaponsmith, metalsmith, scholar, woodworker, etc.

Then you can unlock a 4th craft once you hit Westemnet Master craftsman or lvl 90 and Westemnet Master forester/prospector.
You can unlock a 5th craft once you master the highest crafting tier and lowest level of the highest crafting tier.

Each time the level cap increases and a new crafting tier is introduced, the 5th profession becomes locked up until you can unlock it again.
Then you will permanently learn it whenever we get to the point of having 15 crafting tiers.

[Loox]

Nope. You can ONLY know / use 3 crafts at a time. You even get a warning blurb when you go to change vocations that warns you you'll lose all progress in the old one's (that don't carry over like Ereglam pointed out.

Understood, but what happens when/if you switch back?

[SSG_Orion]

Stay tuned.

[istvana]

>Understood, but what happens when/if you switch back?<

Anything lost is gone forever. Go from historian to explorer you lose all points in scholar. Return to historian those points are still lost.

But go from armsman to explorer to armorer to armsman you never lose a single point in prospecting because prospecting is in all of those groupings.

There have been hints - one immediately above - that the system will be changed. If so I sure hope that it remains limited to no more than three professions per character (perhaps with a free choice of which three, perhaps with a free choice of three but one needs to be gathering, perhaps with a free choice of three but only one can be manufacturing).

[Belechael]

Stay tuned.

Oh, my Eru, is this really happening after almost 16 years Orion???

Please, make it happen!!!

Every character is benefitting from having prospector and forester, as all humanoids drop scholar mats. So, ideally, with just 7 characters you can collect everything and make everything! You can also have a bank alt be a weaponsmith, armourer and woodworker, another be a cook, farmer and tailor and have just one main be a prospector, forester and scholar to gather everything!

So many interesting choices with a pick what you want system!!!

[Strider5548]

I honestly wouldn't mind being able to do all vocations on one character. Why couldn't a single character master all crafts? We all do this today anyway it just requires you to hop between a bunch of alts, would be more streamlined if you can pick one char to be your crafter, and SSG could even monetize this by charging to unlock extra vocations.

[Fantomex]

I liked vocations and the old interdependencies, but would not be sad to see them go. Nothing bothers me more than having to grind out mats to level another Prospector I don't really need. I just hate seeing that empty tab and extra Cooks are easy to level/convenient to have.

I also wouldn't mind seeing the mastery requirement removed from gathering materials so anyone with the right tools could collect them. This I think would increase the supply of undercap raw materials on the AH and bring the cost more in-line with what a low level crafter could reasonably afford.

[Pewpewmidget]

Stay tuned.

I just hope that we don't all get reset to oblivion and everyone will need to start over from scratch again. Including crafting guild reputation.
Either all-in-one or better options would be welcomed no doubt.

[Nebless]

Understood, but what happens when/if you switch back?

Gone is gone. Once wiped the system 'forget's it', so if you switch back you'll be starting at 0 again.

[Cambruyn]

Can you imagine the lag should the system 'remember' all that data. Oh.. wait..

[Bromlin]

Stay tuned.

I will, cheers!

[Loox]

i will, cheers!

ditto

[Galuhad]

I've suggested this before, but I would like to see three craft 'slots' that you can pick up any three professions that you want. In addition, you can buy additional 'slots' to learn other professions. Eventually having every craft on one character, if you wish and can afford it. I have disliked the current set-up since I began playing some 15 years ago and it needs an overhaul.

[Strider5548]

I've suggested this before, but I would like to see three craft 'slots' that you can pick up any three professions that you want. In addition, you can buy additional 'slots' to learn other professions. Eventually having every craft on one character, if you wish and can afford it. I have disliked the current set-up since I began playing some 15 years ago and it needs an overhaul.

I like this approach, I also like the suggestion somewhere above that lets you unlock additional slots once you reach a certain level of proficiency with your existing vocations. At a certain point they would need to 'add slots' via MC though in order to justify the work, but I am totally cool with this.

I am more than ready to retire all my crafting alts and move all vocations to a single character, it's just a giant hassle to have to log around diff characters, pass around crafting materials, and grind rep on different characters. Would be much more streamlined and a huge QoL improvement to allow players to focus crafting on a single character.

[Michaleo]

Stay tuned.

From the Office of Unintended Consequences in the Be Careful What You Wish For Department, I would observe that the restrictions of the current scheme have helped to tame an unavoidably intricate system.

It was a big improvement when toolsets were introduced so you didn't need to swap tools to craft in different professions (and use bag space for the tools you weren't using). Because there are only 7 vocation combinations, I have been able to sell (at my cost) all possibilities for Apprentice to Artisan, and have sold over 20,000 to date. Do we go back to individual tools? This isn't the most important consideration, but it is an example of a benefit of the limitation.

I'm not opposed to changes but worry that more freedom can lead to more complexity and less guidance. For example, LIs and essences allow much more control over your gear but require many players to learn details that they would just as soon not spend time figuring out.