Collectible Pets Only Available From Lootboxes is Wrong. Please Reconsider.

[Strider5548]

The most recent update introduced two new pets in the collections panel, here's a snapshot of one of them:



I'd like to ask SSG to reconsider this new monetization tactic. I am writing as someone who has no problem spending money on this game. In fact, my YTD 2022 spend on LOTRO is over $1,000 at this point across multiple accounts. I want LOTRO to succeed, I want to spend money on this game, but I do not want to gamble in order to fill out the collectibles panel.

If you want to sell pets or mounts, put them in the store, jack up the price, even make purchasable by VIPs only, but please don't lock them behind 'limited time' pay to play RNG. This is a shady tactic and LOTRO is better than this.

[Sovereign50]

The most recent update introduced two new pets in the collections panel, here's a snapshot of one of them:



I'd like to ask SSG to reconsider this new monetization tactic. I am writing as someone who has no problem spending money on this game. In fact, my YTD 2022 spend on LOTRO is over $1,000 at this point across multiple accounts. I want LOTRO to succeed, I want to spend money on this game, but I do not want to gamble in order to fill out the collectibles panel.

If you want to sell pets or mounts, put them in the store, jack up the price, even make purchasable by VIPs only, but please don't lock them behind 'limited time' pay to play RNG. This is a shady tactic and LOTRO is better than this.

I agree with what's said, but I don't know why you have a need to share how much you spend on here. It's not any individual's spending power that will enact change.

Back to the point at hand. There's no pride to be had in these sorts of practices. I understand it can make a lot of money for relatively little effort, but this is why I can't fathom their business model. I mean, they abstain from selling popular carry-alls on the Store, for example, even if only releasing them on a limited basis to hype them and drive up sales (better to be rotated in and out than not sold at all). If monetisation to the extent of lootbox exclusives is where we're at, why haven't they explored all the other avenues where people are willing to throw money at them? It feels like a 'maintenance mode' move. Gearing up to produce very little while milking as much as they can.

[Boraxxe]

I agree with what's said, but I don't know why you have a need to share how much you spend on here. It's not any individual's spending power that will enact change.

Back to the point at hand. There's no pride to be had in these sorts of practices. I understand it can make a lot of money for relatively little effort, but this is why I can't fathom their business model. I mean, they abstain from selling popular carry-alls on the Store, for example, even if only releasing them on a limited basis to hype them and drive up sales (better to be rotated in and out than not sold at all). If monetisation to the extent of lootbox exclusives is where we're at, why haven't they explored all the other avenues where people are willing to throw money at them?

This reminds me of something I seem to remember.
Didn't Turbine state once that stuff in lootboxes would never be unique? That anything distributed in a lootbox could be gained in-game while playing, either by barter, as a quest reward, or just as a drop.

Am I misremembering or did they actually state that?

What you are telling us is that this pet can only be acquired by spending LP on a key and then using the key to gamble when opening a lootbox.
Sounds a lot like gambling to me.

[Strider5548]

I agree with what's said, but I don't know why you have a need to share how much you spend on here. It's not any individual's spending power that will enact change.

To make a point that negative lootbox feedback doesn't just come from people who want to avoid spending money on this game. I think spending habits do drive monetization practices. Maybe it's just a sad case that the biggest spenders are going to town on lootboxes, but if I can provide one data point that suggests otherwise, I'd like to.

[Sovereign50]

To make a point that negative lootbox feedback doesn't just come from people who want to avoid spending money on this game. I think spending habits do drive monetization practices. Maybe it's just a sad case that the biggest spenders are going to town on lootboxes, but if I can provide one data point that suggests otherwise, I'd like to.

Seeing as they almost certainly have easier internal metrics to verify lootbox profitability (and possibly have the tools to contrast that against dollars spent), I still don't see the point. Is it a humblebrag? IDK, I just know that sharing unnecessary info, especially relating to finances, is never a prudent move.

[DoRonRon]

Qualifying the level of addiction with disposable income seems common place here. Some might think it's somehow more deserving of attention, others; not so generous.

Gambling or gaming it's likely the same therapist in the end. But gambling is about knowing the odds and/or being cleverer than the other guy, this isn't that. This is pure chance without knowing the odds.

Better to hope there is a BR while the rewards are still in the loot boxes and test there for free so you know the odds. Start saving loot boxes to take over there. And have a plan for all the Embers and Figments that will come your way if you "go for it" on Live.

[Arnenna]

This reminds me of something I seem to remember.
Didn't Turbine state once that stuff in lootboxes would never be unique? That anything distributed in a lootbox could be gained in-game while playing, either by barter, as a quest reward, or just as a drop.

Am I misremembering or did they actually state that?

What you are telling us is that this pet can only be acquired by spending LP on a key and then using the key to gamble when opening a lootbox.
Sounds a lot like gambling to me.

Can't remember if they said this, but they did say that gear would never be for sale. It absolutely is though. Lootboxes drop gear. Sure, some may argue that it's not the best gear, but, lootboxes also contain embers - which can buy the best gear in game.

I remember when players were selling raid gear for gold, and SSG put measures into place to prevent that - rightfully so. But . . . . here they are, doing the same thing, though chance, boxes and store bought keys.

Proper shady stuff IMO.

Forget the odds, just don't buy into it. Make it a supply and demand fail.

[wispsong]

I don't think even SSG knows how much they win or lose with the key sales as compared to putting the items in the store. I would buy the signpost directly from the store, not the donkey since it is just a recolor. But I wouldn't gamble for the donkey either. I get ready to decorate another house, that means I buy from the store no matter if on sale or not. I will NOT buy keys though.

Some of the items they put on barters should be in the store. Useful housing items for example like banker and dummy. Btw, why don't we have bankers and barbers for all races like we have stables? But here again I guess they count on key sales for figments and chances instead of a direct sale. But the same goes as well for special hobbit gifts. Again, a chance instead of direct sale. Some of these items I would buy even in multiples but no MC for another chance.

As long as players go along with this, considering that some of them (if not most) just buy for gear and embers, nothing will change. And sadly, there are those who find this practice acceptable. Big difference between paying for what I want or gambling for what I want.

[syksyinen]

I am a huge mount collector on my main account and the PAX mounts have left a big hole in my collection for 10 years now and I am still waiting for them to come back. I just want to be able to obtain pets/mounts and not lose the ability to get them so I rather pay a good price them on the store than gamble for them/miss them forever

[Fadil]

The most recent update introduced two new pets in the collections panel, here's a snapshot of one of them:



I'd like to ask SSG to reconsider this new monetization tactic. I am writing as someone who has no problem spending money on this game. In fact, my YTD 2022 spend on LOTRO is over $1,000 at this point across multiple accounts. I want LOTRO to succeed, I want to spend money on this game, but I do not want to gamble in order to fill out the collectibles panel.

If you want to sell pets or mounts, put them in the store, jack up the price, even make purchasable by VIPs only, but please don't lock them behind 'limited time' pay to play RNG. This is a shady tactic and LOTRO is better than this.

Was there a need for this thread, when you already participated in this thread?

https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...side-lootboxes

I'm pretty sure SSG will look at what works and what doesnt work store-wise.
If lootboxes/ steel keys work, I hope they put more unique items in them.
Embers and gear are pretty easy to get in game, maybe people are willing to spend
more on lootboxes if they can contain unique pets, mounts and so on.
If you dont like it: dont buy it, its pretty simple.

There has to be income in a game like this, to fix the servers and to get better customer support.

I'd urge SSG to also look at Wow's practise to sell unique pets for money only.
They sell like crazy.

[DoRonRon]

You bought into a Panini sticker book that ever grows and no option to swap with others and both rares and some exclusives coming from paid content?

No wonder SSG feel they can plunder us at will.

Great way to sell you a manky old nag, call it collectable - put it in the panel. Chase down a pet or mount you will want to use by all means just not every piece of tat with a different skin colour "fill" along the way.

I get the finite endeavours like a Crosser of Roads even the Leaders of the Charge Titles some chase but going for an open-ended one at the future whim of SSG? Maybe it's the only goal some players can progress, I don't know!

[Lambtron]

I am a huge mount collector on my main account and the PAX mounts have left a big hole in my collection for 10 years now and I am still waiting for them to come back. I just want to be able to obtain pets/mounts and not lose the ability to get them so I rather pay a good price them on the store than gamble for them/miss them forever

Pay attention to Extra Life when that arrives. You can get some of those exclusives then. I don't want to derail the topic, but I really hope that we get the opportunity to obtain more items/ mounts this year.

[Fadil]

You bought into a Panini sticker book that ever grows and no option to swap with others and both rares and some exclusives coming from paid content?

No wonder SSG feel they can plunder us at will.

Great way to sell you a manky old nag, call it collectable - put it in the panel. Chase down a pet or mount you will want to use by all means just not every piece of tat with a different skin colour "fill" along the way.

I get the finite endeavours like a Crosser of Roads even the Leaders of the Charge Titles some chase but going for an open-ended one at the future whim of SSG? Maybe it's the only goal some players can progress, I don't know!

No one is plundering you, and fyi: you just got half the game and 3 valars and god knows what else for free.
No one forces you to buy a lootbox, but apparently you want to push your ideas upon others and force others not to buy them.

Anyway: I didnt even mention if I buy lootboxes, but if they sell (which only SSG
knows) good for them.
As a subscriber, I know this game needs money, and if that money comes
from lootboxes, I urge SSG to put more unique pets/ mounts/ housing items in the boxes.
If that pays for better servers/ customer support, I surely hope they ignore the 4 or 5 people on the mbs, who think lootboxes are evil.

[Arnenna]

No one is plundering you, and fyi: you just got half the game and 3 valars and god knows what else for free.
No one forces you to buy a lootbox, but apparently you want to push your ideas upon others and force others not to buy them.

Anyway: I didnt even mention if I buy lootboxes, but if they sell (which only SSG
knows) good for them.
As a subscriber, I know this game needs money, and if that money comes
from lootboxes, I urge SSG to put more unique pets/ mounts/ housing items in the boxes.
If that pays for better servers/ customer support, I surely hope they ignore the 4 or 5 people on the mbs, who think lootboxes are evil.

As another paying subscriber, I actively go out of my way to encourage others to boycott lootboxes. Hand up here. People have just the same right as you do express their opinion on the forums. You do know that right?

I didn't get "god knows what else for free", even if you did. I'd already bought it all, with real cash, on top of my sub.

Perhaps you buy lootboxes, and perhaps you don't. Doesn't matter really. Maybe you are fine to just ignore them, as am I, and maybe there is nothing of interest inside them for you. That may not be the case for others. Maybe one day they will include something you really value into lootboxes, like bandwidth boosters or in game ticket jumps. You may have to open a couple of hundred of them to get one though

Decent servers and an acceptable level of customer support should come as standard with any game, but especially for those paying to play. The game makes quite a bit of money from paying subscribers. Trying to log in and create new characters on the paid legendary servers and failing to get in for hours due to the 4K deep queue can attest to that. That's without the money that premium players pay, and what everyone inputs for content, LP and store purchases. Content hasn't always been free, its a very new thing.

They can sell unique items in the store, or even the marketplace in packs to make money. Players that want them can buy them. It doesn't need to be a game of chance where people that want these items pay, pay, pay and may never get them.

[DoRonRon]

No one is plundering you, and fyi: you just got half the game and 3 valars and god knows what else for free.
No one forces you to buy a lootbox, but apparently you want to push your ideas upon others and force others not to buy them.

Anyway: I didnt even mention if I buy lootboxes, but if they sell (which only SSG
knows) good for them.
As a subscriber, I know this game needs money, and if that money comes
from lootboxes, I urge SSG to put more unique pets/ mounts/ housing items in the boxes.
If that pays for better servers/ customer support, I surely hope they ignore the 4 or 5 people on the mbs, who think lootboxes are evil.

Just asking for some self-reflection. From you guys and SSG. I get that many are long past that, far too invested.

The loot boxes aren't evil it's that they are very badly implemented and they won't grasp that if people are willing to take whatever's offered without discernment of any sort. Money for old robe, so they'll sell you old rope. Why bother if those remaining keep taking it so willingly.

They won't sort out performance if they have you to keep them in the game without improving it. They let you infer that's where your money is going - some whack-a-mole around the issue at most, and largely a waste of effort skirting around the issue. The poor decisions that have driven off so many players over the years along with anyone who gets a bit upperty on the forums has to change first though.

Some of us aren't chasing "sales" and "freebies" and "ultimates" to prove anything. But way to highlight the lag for every player not just those dealing with it for 7 years on a busy server. Blind leading the blinkered.

[Fadil]

As another paying subscriber, I actively go out of my way to encourage others to boycott lootboxes. Hand up here. People have just the same right as you do express their opinion on the forums. You do know that right?

I never said anything to the contrary, so that's just a silly statement.

Lets face it, there's an extremely tiny group of players on these mbs, stating over and over
that lootboxes are bad, without offering any argument for that.
But if they feel like that, they should not buy those lootboxes, case closed.

[Arabani]

I agree, I never gamble, neither in real life, nor in the games.

Whoever thinks that short-time events, gambling and other forms of RNG would make more money then a permanent availability of an item in the store is completely wrong. Most people like to plan ahead, save money and so on.

[alwaysbroke]

I don't get it. I see both sides with having a grain of truth. You don't have to buy them, or support the idea. You can farm LP for free, get the keys for free, and no gambling is involved.

[Laurelinarien]

I don't care for the RNG.. no matter in which aspect of the game. Gear or fluff.
It's terrible and makes me sad.
Money or not money involved.

Just my 2 cents.

[Curuer_Bauglir]

I was against the store from day 1. I was against the lootboxes from day 1. But if they’re going to have them, cosmetic things like this are exactly what belongs in them. Cosmetics don’t have any impact on gameplay the way gear does, but rather are fun things to collect. Again, I hate them, but they’re here and not going away, so what would you suggest they put in the lootboxes?

[Laurelinarien]

I was against the store from day 1. I was against the lootboxes from day 1. But if they’re going to have them, cosmetic things like this are exactly what belongs in them. Cosmetics don’t have any impact on gameplay the way gear does, but rather are fun things to collect. Again, I hate them, but they’re here and not going away, so what would you suggest they put in the lootboxes?

Well like you, I was never in favor of lootboxes. And even with the sad reality you describe, I can't give up.. I wish to see them gone for good even if it'll never happen.

And yes, I do rather see these kinds of items in Store or in Vendors for MC. I do buy decorations & outfits in the Store (pets, I buy less coz honestly store ones aren't too desirable imo) - but I don't buy keys coz it's a bad way to spend my currencies.
I mean, I don't mind paying for the fluff I want the same way I don't mind running instances that will drop useful items for my class - it's the bad RNG that kills my will to play. I guess I must be in a minority if this system keeps getting pushed... must mean other players don't mind? I've no idea

[wispsong]

I don't get it. I see both sides with having a grain of truth. You don't have to buy them, or support the idea. You can farm LP for free, get the keys for free, and no gambling is involved.

I wont spend LP on a chance of getting the item I want. Bought or earned doesn't matter. There is a difference of buying an item directly from the store and getting a box with RNG that might or might not have the item I want. And buying for a chance is gambling.

When we had the chance to earn keys in game I used these to open boxes. Now they are in the filter.

[Strider5548]

stating over and over that lootboxes are bad, without offering any argument for that.

Perhaps you've just been ignoring it, because many people have made solid arguments for why lootboxes are bad. Putting those aside, I'll just lay out it out clear and simple:

SSG is basically telling players who want to fill out their pet collectibles panel that you can only do this by gambling, and on top of that only for a limited time.

Regardless of whether it's cosmetics or high end gear, putting pressure on players to gamble on a slot machine for items that are only available for a limited time is wrong. To the players who find filling out their collectibles panel as something important (and likely something they've spent years working towards), their only choice is to gamble and to do it quickly.

[maartena]

I was against the store from day 1. I was against the lootboxes from day 1. But if they’re going to have them, cosmetic things like this are exactly what belongs in them. Cosmetics don’t have any impact on gameplay the way gear does, but rather are fun things to collect. Again, I hate them, but they’re here and not going away, so what would you suggest they put in the lootboxes?

I actually agree with this. If there is anything that belongs in loot boxes it’s not armor that has a direct effect on your combat, but all the fluff such as pets and cosmetics.

I open loot boxes from time to time maybe I buy a set of keys once every two months or so and I have had some horses and such things. That’s nice sure, but it really doesn’t bother me if I can’t complete a collection. That’s almost impossible anyways since some things can’t be gotten in game anymore.

[DoRonRon]

My issue is that it's all the monetisation stuff that so poorly implemented.

Carry-alls that don't have the functionality that as players we see is lacking as well as capacities that don't cater for the shear quantity of items added by another department; LI stuff. Nor a fully detailed and accessible "diary" on their varying specifications.

And Loot boxes; that reflect the mixed up dual game of MMO and Simm, delivering cosmetics, gear, and then also embers and figments that due to capped currency limits actually prevent further key use or you kiss good by to your secondary/tertiary objective. It's sabotaging any chase for a rare, limited availability cosmetic or mount if you're not managing those currencies - and the nonsense of seasonal barters and festivals that limit the spending of one and the slow release of tiers/item level that regularly harvests the other.

I have to assume the proper devs have washed their hands of it all rather than get involved making them fit for Lotro purpose.