Dev Diary Feedback: Guardian Advancement Beyond Level 50!

[Clover]

Guardians have always had the highest levels of damage mitigation, and in Moria that continues to be the case. Though changes to the combat system have shifted the overall balance of the game, Guardians still reign supreme when it comes to their ability to take hits.

Read more about Guardian 50+ advancement and post your comments here!

[Rogmar]

Pretty cool.

[graysaint2]

I like the division between Boss tanking and Group tanking! Not sure who would specialize in the damage tree, but there are some that I am sure won't mind it. Overall, I like the direction that was taken, especially as I and many other Guardians are curious as to what the Warden is going to do with the tanking balance of the game.

The idea of a tree for Boss tanking is great, as I beleive it will help keep the Guardian relavant in end game battles. Can't wait to try this branch out!

The idea of the Group tanking tree is great, as I do get frustrated at times when trying to keep aggro from the Champion and Hunter. (I know, if I play my class right I should keep it most of the time regardless, but it does require certain skills are always slotted and that I make zero mistakes)

I am no longer worried - just wish it was already November 18th!

[Redwes0385]

I am definitely liking the new Guardian sets. Good choice by Turbine, to split Boss Tanking and Group tanking. I may have missed it somewhere in the gobs of information about Moria but are there going to be Legendary Shields available for the Guardian? I just figured since the Heavy Shield was our primary instrument that this would be the case but I haven’t seen anything on it anywhere.

[DarkCntry]

I am definitely liking the new Guardian sets. Good choice by Turbine, to split Boss Tanking and Group tanking. I may have missed it somewhere in the gobs of information about Moria but are there going to be Legendary Shields available for the Guardian? I just figured since the Heavy Shield was our primary instrument that this would be the case but I haven’t seen anything on it anywhere.

I doubt it, from everything I've read classes only get two different types of legendaries, generally a weapon and a tool. In the case of Guards, there's plenty of people who 2-hand them without shields, so to force them into using shields probably wouldn't make them too happy.

[gildhur]

Great changes across the board. OP Guards are going to be hell in the Moors with those bleeds.

One problem, though:

Take to Heart allows a Guardian to drain power off of a target opponent at the cost of morale instead of power. This helps replenish the Guardian’s power for other skills, and reduces the target’s pool. When combined with the Legendary Trait Heart of Fire, this skill can go a long way towards depleting a boss’s power pool, as well as its ability to perform special skills.

This is great for most fights. A mob without power is going to be much easier to manage. BUT. Most raid bosses have unlimited power. They may only have a max of 500, but if you've ever done the Rift, you know they replenish it instantly when drained. So while this skill and trait might be good to give a Guard power (better than Thrill of Danger, though? dubious), it's going to be worthless at draining power in the end game fights.

I see this as another epic failure of the lack of communication between class and content teams. End-game content has specific rules. The classes need to be balanced in advancement shifts like this to fit those rules. The corruption thing was communicated and seems to have been integrated well. But other things like this power trait in a boss tank set just...don't work.

[SaintBass]

Hmm, not thrilled. Why is there a trait set that revolves around Guardians threat... possibly the worst legendary ever? Thus far, the guardian is the only class that has a trait set built around using a legendary trait, that in my experience, has never worked very well in the first place.

Anyhow, there are some gritty details that are missing, but it doesn't look all that promising. I'll mull it over again when I get back home. I am fairly non-plused at my first glance.

[Xiladi]

This is great for most fights. A mob without power is going to be much easier to manage. BUT. Most raid bosses have unlimited power. They may only have a max of 500, but if you've ever done the Rift, you know they replenish it instantly when drained. So while this skill and trait might be good to give a Guard power (better than Thrill of Danger, though? dubious), it's going to be worthless at draining power in the end game fights.

I see this as another epic failure of the lack of communication between class and content teams. End-game content has specific rules. The classes need to be balanced in advancement shifts like this to fit those rules. The corruption thing was communicated and seems to have been integrated well. But other things like this power trait in a boss tank set just...don't work.

From the sounds of it, they have taken this into account (this skill can go a long way towards depleting a boss’s power pool, as well as its ability to perform special skills.). It sounds likely that they've changed end-game boss mechanics in regards to how they use power. While you could be right, I wouldn't be so pessimistic about it until you see how it's actually going to work in MoM.

[DYMongoose]

Combat system overhall? Someone call Chicken Little, here comes the NGE!

[Eagles1]

LOVE IT... More damage in overpower, more threat generation in grouping, and now more additions to boss tanking. They even gave more threat to shield-taunt, which I feel is already the best group holding aggro move in the game. As much as Guards have been worried about the Warden making us obsolete, I think this shows that Guardian's will be around for a very long time.

[atimes]

This is great. In my mind this addresses all of the guardian concerns I've been seeing on the boards lately. Improved threat generation, the ability to maintain mobs and bosses attention, and a true secondary role with the potential 30% conjunction chance as well as improvements to Overpower. Finally no more cookie cutter guardians. Not only that but we can add a new acronym to MMO terminology. LFF HAVE DPS AND DOT'S NEED TOT'S

Not having to slot traits JUST to maintain aggro:check
Increased DPS with changes to Overpower:check
A true secondary role:check
Ability to mitigate the new devastating criticals:check

Granted I haven't been here as long as some of the "vets" so my experience is limited but I'm stoked about the changes to the Guardian.

[HahnsPCs]

As far as the write-up, it says to me that Guards are STILL the Main Battle Tanks - WOOT!

;oD

But now of course, my guard has to pick a "direction" - sigh!

I have 2 level 50 Guards (1 man, 1 Dwarf) so I guess I'll mix and match and check out the sets but I DO like the idea of my level 60 LOOKING like a level 62 to the mobs:

"A level 60 Guardian who focuses on this line would essentially look like a level 62 Guardian to a monster when it comes to their ability to critically hit the Guardian, which amounts to a significant reduction."

)

What I'd like to see is the POTENTIAL/most LIKELY Morale/Power stats of a level 60 Guardian...

Is there any way to get a glimpse of that along with any/all other classes??? I would think it would vary widely depending on build, armor, weapon(s) and the intermingled stats, but even an idea would be NICE!

The SOA book I have (bought the original Collector's edition with all the toys & stuff) has a nice grid of class level "X" moral & Power stats... I'd LOVE to see something like that in the post 50 toon world...

Every day the 11/18 kick-off ticks closer, makes me happier...

Keep up the great work Turbine!

[a99barnsey]

IMO this is mostly a failure and a disaster. The group tanking set is a complete waste. Making is spec in order keep up with threat generation is total BS and furthermore deprives us of what could have been an interesting alternative spec focused on utility.

I don't want to jump off the deep end, but I was almost sure I was going to continue with my guardian as my main. This **** is seriously making me consider going with either my LM, the burglar i'm leveling, or perhaps just rolling a warden.

[Laeden]

Combat system overhall? Someone call Chicken Little, here comes the NGE!

BAHAHAHA...Too funny...I don't think it's going to be anything that drastic....I hope...*fingers crossed*

But I'm loving all the stuff they're talking about. Sounds like Guardians could possibly become a one-man wrecking machine.

[J-TK]

My Guard already is a one man wrecking Machine
Just going to trait up for the boss tanking and leave it,
then walk Middle Earth with impunity

[tinbird]

Ok did i miss it or do guards not get a special item for the new class item slot?

[Gerran]

Mixed feelings.

On the one hand im glad that i can now do better dps, but i was hoping for improvements to our utility while doing this. The problem hasnt been that we cant do damage, we actually can - the problem is that we dont do anything else with it, be it aoe or a really good debuff or cc or whatever. We will continue, i feel, to be a second choice dpser because our damage is still slightly subpar and we dont really have other things to make up for it. I didnt want us to naturally hit as hard as a champ or hunter, but I did think a bit of usefulness in a guard along with solid numbers would have sealed our overpower stance as a winning spec.

Oh well.

Also: They should just give us more threat, not make us have to trait for it, thats not so cool.

[DYMongoose]

Ok did i miss it or do guards not get a special item for the new class item slot?

I don't remember where, but somewhere someone said that Guardians get a belt as their class item.

[gildhur]

Since Beta NDA was lifted today, I'll answer a few questions.

Guardians' second legendary item is a Belt. It goes in the class slot and has +threat legacies, -cooldown legacies, +heal legacies, etc. You can get legacies on it that actually add Parry or Block to Guardian's Threat stance, making it both a threat and defensive stance. Get both legacies on one belt (with a +threat legacy), and you'll be golden.

As to level 60 stats, I haven't kept track, but expect at least +1000 morale. My Champ at level 59 is 4000+, from 3400 at 50, and has less than optimal gear. I know Agrivere got his Captain up to 7000 with everything he had available, but potential for more with buffs. I'd expect the standard Guardian at 60 with higher end gear to average 5500.

[LoupGarou216]

Love the first and third specs (Tanking and PvP ) but the middle one seems a bit unfair in my opinion. We are in dire need of threat gen all the time, it shouldn't be a spec, but an enhancement to our class over-all. Utility would have been much more fun and different. ALL specs should have gotten increased threat.

Other than that, I'm quite happy.

[NeoLink71]

Hmm, not thrilled. Why is there a trait set that revolves around Guardians threat... possibly the worst legendary ever? Thus far, the guardian is the only class that has a trait set built around using a legendary trait, that in my experience, has never worked very well in the first place.

Anyhow, there are some gritty details that are missing, but it doesn't look all that promising. I'll mull it over again when I get back home. I am fairly non-plused at my first glance.

While I agree with him/her about the Guardian's Threat trait, I really was overall impressed with what to look forward to. Good job, Turbine.

[Drogo1]

Granted I haven't been here as long as some of the "vets" so my experience is limited but I'm stoked about the changes to the Guardian.

See, this is what I was thinking, but the first posts in this thread were making me wonder if I was the only one who felt like the dev diary portended continued good things for the guardian....

[swedishviking]

hmmmm.....legendary shield vs. legendary belt................interestin g.....

I am extremely pleased with these new trait lines. i just don't know which one i want, group or boss. i like boss more but the group ToT's might be pretty useful regardless of the number of mobs.

I never used Guardian's Threat either. The extra 20% to threat never seemed to do much, but with the removal of the line bonuses i might have to rethink things alittle

Graalx2 i'm sorry for being so pessimistic about the gaurdian's future in the first warden dev diary.....

[DHargrave]

Meh.. I wish the dev that watched 300 for inspiration for warden watched the rocky movies. Basically the gaurd is still rocky without the dps. Overpower is a complete joke basically everything we have to do for these adds on and updates should have been done already in the prior gaurd update and those in themselves are meh as well. Seems a bit silly once again youve dropped the ball with this class. Heres what the gaurd should have


2k extra health at level 60 would be nice. slotting warriors heart at 60 gives you 2k extra health

Remove over power its junk and totally worthless. If i wanted to be a champion i would have rolled one.Just give us the 25% melee increase across the aboard. We are still bieng punished for wanting to dps I.E no block and power drain.

Threat generation. Please stop making the game about "achieving threat generation" We should either have it or we dont. Now you have a new class that can take it away as well. Seriously reduce champions threat and the others or just make grim challenge and all other threat generation skill to 75-90% and be done with it. Its hard enough now to do the juggling act with this as it is and your throwing a new class into the mix. Having a huge threat generation shouldnt be a "gift" or "achievement" its should of been a standard skill for gaurdians like champions aoe.

I really hope you devs read this because there isnt much that gives me incentive to want to grind my gaurd up again. Ive pretty much retired him except for getting delving stones in the ettenmoors.So i hope you read this and realize your going about this class all wrong.

And yes im saying to give us this these skills and not work for them but we quite honestly should of had this to begin with.

[sloth72khs]

Love the first and third specs (Tanking and PvP ) but the middle one seems a bit unfair in my opinion. We are in dire need of threat gen all the time, it shouldn't be a spec, but an enhancement to our class over-all. Utility would have been much more fun and different. ALL specs should have gotten increased threat.

Other than that, I'm quite happy.

You all should also know that a trait set is 5 traits while at lvl 60 we can slot 7 traits, this really goes a long way towards allowing you to spec for group or boss encounters but still have flexibility in your ability to handle other situations. It is my guess that most tanks will spec with a mixture of the first and second trait sets, and this is a totally acceptable and effective way to enhance your ability to tank all encounters.