Feedback: Update 10 Mithril coins

[LeRaginAsian]

Here's to hoping the vast majority of the in-game TP icons can now be replaced by something at least marginally lore-friendly.

So really, how will the coins relate to the mannequins? Will they be allowing people to dress up temporarily? Will we be able to dress them up to our liking? Or - Eru forbid - will they function as a combat decoy?

[namless]

So the plan is to now have not one but two cash stores with a different currency for each?

If this new currency will be bought with tp's then how much watering down will occur from real money once its been converted from one to the other to the other.

Other point of interest is why the desire to shift away from the current store stuff like revival tomes and into the generic coin?


Seems like this is just another case of change for the sake of it rather than putting the funds towards focussing on getting the game to a playable state where people will be encouraged to play and in doing so fell more inclined to put some cash into the store.

[Kevinbacon88]

However, again, when Bullroarer opens up we'd love to hear feedback and suggestions.

When, indeed?

[ShireDweller]

I imagine the more the game can combine certain items the better the game will run and be optimized to run. When a game gets to big, it becomes increasingly difficult to add new features without bogging down the system. (ie. extra bag, more vault space, etc).

So not only does the combining of these elements (seasonal items started heading this way too) improve gameplay in making things less complicated, I imagine it improves the quality of how the system runs. Even if it only improves system performances by fractions of a percent, it may be enough to allow for other new features to be added.

I agree. The fewer distinct items that the system has to load for everybody, the better.

[HunterGreen]

This seems like a benefit for us to me, not a disadvantage. I don't know what everyone's complaining about.

Old: You pay 15 turbine points for product X, and 5 turbine points for product Y.
New: You pay 20 turbine points for currency that can be used to do product X and Y, or Y four times, or a bunch of other stuff.

So you're paying the same amount for the same benefits, but you're getting more flexibility at no extra cost.

Other benefits to you: they can (and probably will) offer discounts on larger purchases, so you can pay less for the same benefits. Not that you have to, but you can.

And it's better for them because it streamlines the code and the databases. Makes it simpler to update things, and maybe reduces the load on servers a tiny bit.

So where's the bad? Am I missing something here, or is this just a reactionary "waah, I have to pay for things I want to get for free" and/or "waah, it's different" (both of which you can count on happening any time anything happens)?

[Ingaras]

Can't you just remove the travel writs and revival tomes and not add in a replacement?

Lacking that bright future: Why the intermediate Mithril Coins and not just TPs? Buying Turbine Point to buy Mithril Coins to buy what I want still seems more complicated than necessary.

[Kleinwulf]

Any plans on putting the VI back in VIP and give us VIPers an X amount Mithril Coins each month? Since one revive costs 15 MC, maybe 25-50 MC/month is a decent amount.

[Idgetated]

So much negative feedback on this! Wow. Well, I agree that there are a ton of technical issues that need attention, but... my sincere opinion on this new implementation is that it is (in part at least) designed to actually help streamline things, server side. Think about it: less crunch time on the server end when people make microtransactions because of a more unified MT currency--you have to consider that, though they may not seem that way, things like revival tomes really are a type of MT currency in game. If you consider just how many people on a given server are using MTs at a given point in time, those milliseconds can add up and potentially positively impact server issues like lag spikes, load times, etc.

I'm not advocating the idea of getting folks to spend more real $$ in the game, but it honestly looks like the effect will be more of a currency substitution than a scam to get us to spend more. That is, assuming that we still get things like revive tomes as loot drops on occasion.

My big question -- does this mean destiny points are out the window? And if so, does that mean I'd better spend all mine before Update 10, or risk losing them?

[Crell_1]

So where's the bad? Am I missing something here, or is this just a reactionary "waah, I have to pay for things I want to get for free" and/or "waah, it's different" (both of which you can count on happening any time anything happens)?

It signals a shift to a transitory currency with an easily shifted value rather than a focus on specific goods/services approach to store purchases.

[HunterGreen]

It signals a shift to a transitory currency with an easily shifted value rather than a focus on specific goods/services approach to store purchases.

So if I follow what you're saying, you think Turbine will be more comfortable saying something like "dread revivals now cost 20MP instead of 15MP" than they are saying "dread revival tomes now cost 20TP instead of 15TP"? And so it'll happen more often? That seems a stretch to me, but I suppose I can't prove otherwise.

Still, it's a reason, which is more than I can say for most of the alarmist posts on here, like the credibility-free one [that used to be] right above this one. "Something that used to cost $5 now costs $5. Damn you for bleeding me dry!" It does make it hard to pick out the actual issues when there's always someone ready to wail about nothing.

Edit: I referred to a post that apparently got deleted after my post.

[Cerridwen]

For thos thinking VIP should get free coins, here's my current thought. We get 500TP a month, TP is going to be used to buy the Coins just as TP is currently used to buy the individual items. So why do we also need to be given coins? We don't. We have free TP which equals free coins just as the free TP currently equals free revival tomes, traveller's writs, and all other store items.

I'm reserving my judgement on the Coins and how they're used in-game until I get some hands-on experience (or second-hand 'experience' since I removed Bullroarer from my computer).

[Idiotvillage]

One aspect where this conversion might be beneficial is with regard to storage space. We presently receive a giftbox after we complete the introduction, this contains various store items that are accessible when we are the appropriate level, will this now contain mithril coins?

I am not sure of the rationale for the implementation of this currency why not just make the services requiring a mithril coin have a tp cost instead? The flaw I see with this scheme is that turbine points are more useful than mithril coins and can be converted into mithril coins, people will not stock pile mithril coins. I assume mithril coins cannot be converted back into turbine points? People who want these services will have make a currency conversion before they purchase. This scheme is needlessly complicated.

[Patr1x]

That is, assuming that we still get things like revive tomes as loot drops on occasion

Sapience stated above you that they would no longer be on the loot tables.

The tomes will no longer exist in game so no. However, again, when Bullroarer opens up we'd love to hear feedback and suggestions.

Seems similar to the Relic Removal Scroll change (i.e. something you could do/earn/loot in game converted to store-exclusive); anyone remember when we were 'allowed' to remove relics at the LI NPC's?

[Crell_1]

So if I follow what you're saying, you think Turbine will be more comfortable saying something like "dread revivals now cost 20MP instead of 15MP" than they are saying "dread revival tomes now cost 20TP instead of 15TP"? And so it'll happen more often? That seems a stretch to me, but I suppose I can't prove otherwise.

I'm saying the further and further you remove the 'store items' from the single store currency we have, the easier to inflate it becomes.

Whether or not Turbine will do so, or do so more frequently, is an entirely separate topic entirely.

It does potentially have huge server-side performance benefits though, in terms of transactions that never have to leave its network, etc. (The LOTRO store you use TP in is operated on a system by Playspan, which was acquired by Visa)

[Eartholloth]

.....................

[peterbutt]

I don't even know how much a revive tome costs in TP...but now I will be even less likely to buy one since I would have to buy MC first, then buy a tome and somehow feel that I'm overpaying for it too boot. I'd rather just have a friendly minstrel do the honors, and if one of those isn't available, I'll just deal with the teleport to a rez circle like I do today. What a waste of development time and developer diary space.

[medwulf]

Mithril coins would not have even been thought up if they were just going to be for revival, swift travel, and travel writs, and mannequins(which have no place in ME). This is just the beginning, Im not dooming and glooming, but a year from now what will Mithril coins be used for? Thats the goal. Not the initial implementation, but what will be in the future.

Dont feel like raiding for the best gear? NP! Get a few Mithril Coins and barter for the best Gear and items at "GearStop" a newly opened npc barter operation outside of South Bree, Durin's Gate and other locals all across ME!

I still enjoy the game, but I think the older players know how Turbine plays by now. Maybe this is just how MMO's do things.

[Punkinchunkin]

Im seriously afraid of this being just another money sink. Now with 2 different currencies it becomes too easy for them to up prices of items in the "new" currency.

Im not sure this is even a good idea or needed, or just another way to squeeze a few more pennies out of your customers with out supplying any more product.

Will we still get the free revives or are they going the way of relic removal and store only??

[Johnny0]

Sounds like a great item to go in the lottery... hint hint... I was apprehensive looking at all the flaming but having took the time to read the diary, it sounds like we actually get more bang for our buck(or TP). Instead of having a stack of tomes and suddenly realizing I need to go from Riv to Forchel and having to open the store to blow more points on a writ, I can just do it all from one stack of currency IN GAME. Should be a very rare drop in game or epic reward though...

[DanteIL]

I assume that there are backend streamlining benefits, but this change is kind of a headscratcher on the surface.

I realize we'll get more info from Bullroarer (caveat: subject to change) but I have two questions:

1) what will be the exchange ratios for current items, like the revival tomes and writs? Will this happen automatically with Update 10?

2) How many of the current store 'services' are going to be converted to this new currency right away, or will it be phased in over time? There are *tons* of LI services, vault & storage services, buffs and token services, etc etc that I can easily imagine will all end up costing Mithril Coins rather than TP someday. And if so, will there be a Mithril currency section of the Store that is separate from the TP section of the store?

[zalladi]

What a waste of development time and developer diary space.

Whilst people think it uses a great quantity of development time to create new features such as this, it is actually the complete opposite; (I am guessing) Turbine has hired several people to work on separate areas of focus (One team for content, one for store and sales etc) and each work independently to reach a target. So while you think this new feature is taking up precious developer time, it most certainly is not, as the other teams working on content and quests and such are still only focused on producing the content their team was assigned to do.

tl;dr: It is not a waste of development time, as there are separate teams working on different systems/projects.

[Deledrius]

My big question -- does this mean destiny points are out the window? And if so, does that mean I'd better spend all mine before Update 10, or risk losing them?

I don't see anything here mentioning them going away, but I did immediately think "how is this different from the design of Destiny Points, and why aren't these perks just being folded into this system (with purchasable DPs)?" Cynically, I'd guess the answer is 'because DPs can be earned'.

It signals a shift to a transitory currency with an easily shifted value rather than a focus on specific goods/services approach to store purchases.

This is the biggest long-term concern, IMO. The TPs are already bad enough; Turbine controls the exchange rate from USD, as well as the value by setting prices of every item on the store (as well as indirectly controlling the demand in-game with things like spawn-rates and overall difficulty). An intermediate currency with two exchange rates is extremely easy to abuse (and obfuscate that abuse), if not now, but someday.

That said, on a technical level I see the merits of this, and the simplicity in a drive to remove excess items is welcome. I think I would have preferred to see this rolled into an existing system like the Destiny Points, but some of the MC items would probably stretch the plausibility of it.

[auzten]

is ther a way to gain them in game

[auzten]

is ther a way to gain them in game

[Mithithil]

Well, will they be another store item not to buy for things I basically don't use, or will they become the sine qua non of pay to succeed/pay to win?

I would like to be less cynical, but so far the line between cynicism and realism is too fine to spot...