Communication

[ErandarTheFirst]

Hello lotro community & developers,

I wanted to bring up the subject of communication.
When I am looking to previous years and the about 3+ months in 2014, communication improved with about 10^100.
Livestreams with huge amount of answers on questions. Active developers and people on the forums.
I have to say turbine, you're doing really really good on the part of communication +rep to you!
Keep it up!

PS: U13 looks cool and promising .

~Erandar

[Rowan]

Thank you!

[Cartman76]

Thank you!

Sneaky way to prove him right, hehe
But he does make good points.
After years away and on other gaming forums the QQ here is really nothing, and easily filtered out tbh.
It's just hard to leave my urge for sarcasm behind

[Gedachtnis]

Thank you!

Thanks to you and the others for today's live stream.

Even though I'm not overly happy with the answer to my question about a new IC/Raid in the future, I do appreciate the answer. I hope you reevaluate the possibility of Instances and Raids if even not a full cluster but dropping a 6 man or Raid in here and there, even if it's back in an older zone like was done with Halls of Night/Inn of the Forsaken.

In true Game Forum fashion I'm going to remember you promised a Shelob's Lair IC/Raid!*

(* Ok, he did NOT really promise a Shelob's Lair IC/Raid, but he did say that IC's/Raids are still a content type they will use in the future. My interpretation of the convo was not to really look for them before the Mordor Region. Shelob's Lair was used as a point in the Story that IC/Raid type content might be the best way for them to tell the Story.)

It's great to have you back Aaron and the communication that comes with you, it almost feels like before you left.

[GBergen]

I have to agree. Good communication between the community and the developers is crucial (in my mind) for the success of an mmo. The changes being made to the game and the actions of the dev team in 2014 has renewed a sense of optimism in me for this game. Here is hoping for a resurgence of high quality content that I know the LOTRO team is capable of!

[Rowan]

When you listen to streams like this, I think you can hear the struggle the designers go through sometimes. We don't like to say no. (Really, we don't.) What we are doing is balancing all the infinite possibilities so we can focus on a few things and deliver them really well. My goal is to let you know where we're focusing.

[Crell_1]

When you listen to streams like this, I think you can hear the struggle the designers go through sometimes. We don't like to say no. (Really, we don't.) What we are doing is balancing all the infinite possibilities so we can focus on a few things and deliver them really well. My goal is to let you know where we're focusing.

This stream far more than any other single live-stream including the Bullroarer TTHTI stream, was excellent in terms of player/+Turbine interaction.

One thing I'd like to have you guys take away from the live stream is that delving into the technical aspects/issues of some of the long term goals/plans goes a long way toward helping us not only accept upcoming changes but appreciate the complexity involved. Additionally, it helps us have a positive outlook in terms of future development.

[Gedachtnis]

This stream far more than any other single live-stream including the Bullroarer TTHTI stream, was excellent in terms of player/+Turbine interaction.

One thing I'd like to have you guys take away from the live stream is that delving into the technical aspects/issues of some of the long term goals/plans goes a long way toward helping us not only accept upcoming changes but appreciate the complexity involved. Additionally, it helps us have a positive outlook in terms of future development.

Agreed


Having them all on audio always gives a nice feel. One of the things I've really missed is when they used to do podcasts with the fansites etc, on a fairly regular basis, but I actually enjoyed today's stream even more as they answered our questions instead of a "list" of questions.

This is something that I hope becomes a regular feature, live interaction between the players and Turbine has many positives.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Is there a recording or a write up of the live stream available?

[Gedachtnis]

Is there a recording or a write up of the live stream available?

http://www.twitch.tv/lotrostream/b/516732797

[OldMadeOfLions]

This is something that I hope becomes a regular feature, live interaction between the players and Turbine has many positives.

I had a great time! It's tough not being able to talk about *all* of our plans, but that's part of the deal, I guess.

Would do again!

MoL

[Crell_1]

I had a great time! It's tough not being able to talk about *all* of our plans, but that's part of the deal, I guess.

Would do again!

MoL

Which reminds me. Someone needs to put together at least a side-by-side photo of +Horsedev and +Rowan just for laughs, and then figure out how to put you all in your own-web-camera style window (best visual I can give as an example is how google-hangouts splits the screen up w/ the active participants) I know twitch and xsplit can do it. I just dont know how =/ @lotroreporter/@mmoreporter might be able to help. I think Chris did it for part of his Extralife marathon. Even if we can't see the game at all, it'd be really nice to have a more that extra bit of human presence eel to the interactions once in awhile. So much gets communicated in ones face!

Additionally: There were some remarks from +Sapience in chat post the actual 'stream' part of the event wrapping up that I'd like to address even if I can't quote him.

I know there's a need for some kind of moderation so you're not all trying to figure out who to address/who speaks or answers next, but the impression that you are ALL actually seeing the twitch-chat scroll by is not present at all in the current system. Even if you all just grab usernames handles login, pop it out into a separate window and don't type a thing into the stream, and let the window sit there, without comment, it'd feel like you're at least seeing the actual questions. Its particularly frustrating when one of your questions gets relayed, whether as a 'collective summary' or individual question, without answering or addressing ANY of the specific issues raised by the actual question (or majority of questions on the topic) being relayed in the chat. The phrase "Lost in Translation" comes to mind when describing this problem. I really had no idea you guys even saw the text-chat at ALL until +Sapience said so during the post-stream chat. Perhaps some kind of internal-messaging or 'virtual talking stone' style passing in the office could accomplish this, with Developers actually quoting their own question/topic they were about to address.

EDIT:Fixed a minor typo that could have led to misunderstanding due to its grammatical affect

EDIT2: Corrected a dev name.

[Schinderhannes]

... One of the things I've really missed is when they used to do podcasts with the fansites etc, on a fairly regular basis...

I miss these, too! The one with cstm was one of my favourite podcasts off all time. ... not joking.

I think it was episode 23: http://cstm.mymiddleearth.com/2010/02/episode23/

[Gedachtnis]

A specific case would be:

Are FA Symbols available in T3 Skirmishes of all sizes or only at Raid size?

The way the question got relayed and the answer didn't really specify. It's very unclear if you actually mean only Raid size or are using the term skirmishes to actually mean all sizes.

One thing that leads to a lot of confusion is that often terms are given a specific template, but then that template gets kind of abandoned, making it hard to determine if something means what it was templated to mean or if it's being used in a general sense. Heh, my CCG background is showing.

[Crell_1]

A specific case would be:

Are FA Symbols available in T3 Skirmishes of all sizes or only at Raid size

One which was repeated both verbatim in the chat stream & got no response in the BR forums. This is particularly frustrating because one of you remarked that your desk is next to where +Jinjaah works.

I'm not saying that because I was one of the people asking the question, but because its an excellent example of the problem which happened today unlike some other ones in the recent past.

[Orodbril]

Is there a recording or a write up of the live stream available?

frickinmuck might transcribe all questions and answers again into his thread here. But I don't know it for this particular livestream.

Orodbril

[frickinmuck]

Is there a recording or a write up of the live stream available?

There will also be a transcript available here later today.

[Belnavar]

A specific case would be:

Are FA Symbols available in T3 Skirmishes of all sizes or only at Raid size?

The way the question got relayed and the answer didn't really specify. It's very unclear if you actually mean only Raid size or are using the term skirmishes to actually mean all sizes.

One thing that leads to a lot of confusion is that often terms are given a specific template, but then that template gets kind of abandoned, making it hard to determine if something means what it was templated to mean or if it's being used in a general sense. Heh, my CCG background is showing.

I asked the same question after Crell in slightly different wording to ensure we got the answer we were looking for (something along the lines of "Will FA Symbols drop in solo skirmishes or skraids?"). We didn't get an answer on that, despite it being asked in multiple places.

For now I'm assuming it is skraids only, like it was for Second Age Symbols in previous releases. It would be nice, however, if we could rule out other size skirmishes once and for all.

-Bel

[Crell_1]

I asked the same question after Crell in slightly different wording to ensure we got the answer we were looking for

It was a valiant attempt by all who tried. Alas, our efforts availed us not!

[Thurallor]

I was wondering about something. Do Devs ever have their feelings hurt? It must be tough to put your heart and soul into something, and when it goes live, a bunch of people hate your work and complain incessantly about it.

I guess the one nice thing about that is, if a lot of people are complaining, you know your work is important to a lot of people.

[Crell_1]

I was wondering about something. Do Devs ever have their feelings hurt? It must be tough to put your heart and soul into something, and when it goes live, a bunch of people hate your work and complain incessantly about it.
I guess the one nice thing about that is, if a lot of people are complaining, you know your work is important to a lot of people.

As far as the Development team..

I've never seen them express their hurt in public. Every single Developer who I can name who'd worked on a project I'm less than satisfied with, I can point to 2 projects I loved for every 1 that left me disappointed.

Every single one of them takes pride in their work. They want their work to be a thing that both the players love and the developer is proud of. They've poured their heart into this virtual world, and I'm grateful to each and every one of them for their efforts.

[Sabian49]

I still want to see spiders have a skill that lets them climb like spiders for 10s if not a permanant one.

[Sapience]

This stream far more than any other single live-stream including the Bullroarer TTHTI stream, was excellent in terms of player/+Turbine interaction.

One thing I'd like to have you guys take away from the live stream is that delving into the technical aspects/issues of some of the long term goals/plans goes a long way toward helping us not only accept upcoming changes but appreciate the complexity involved. Additionally, it helps us have a positive outlook in terms of future development.

This was intended to be a lot more focused on showing off the next update and directly interacting with players. So I'm happy to hear we were at least partly successful there.
As Aaron pointed out, it's good for you guys to hear some of the struggles the team has with having to prioritize things to ensure the best results. of course, I personally believe this comes out a bit better when they're actually speaking it instead of just writing it. Going forward you should be hearing a lot more from the team. I mean that quite literally.

This is something that I hope becomes a regular feature, live interaction between the players and Turbine has many positives.

The plan is to have more, but everyone should keep in mind that the #1 thing the team should be doing is making the game. There is a balance between spending time chatting with players and making content. So while these type of streams will become more common, I wouldn't expect a daily stream or even every other day with this type of involvement. More common will be myself, or maybe a single dev, or maybe myself and a dev, with events like this being the 'big event'. My personal goal is to use steams like this to replace the old Twitter chats. Because again, I think the voice aspect gives a little more depth to the replies than text.

I was wondering about something. Do Devs ever have their feelings hurt? It must be tough to put your heart and soul into something, and when it goes live, a bunch of people hate your work and complain incessantly about it.

I guess the one nice thing about that is, if a lot of people are complaining, you know your work is important to a lot of people.

Of course. They,we, us... we're human. Let's be very honest here, 'passion' sometimes is expressed in some very inappropriate ways and with a lot of vitriol and less than pleasant commentary. If i'm also being honest you'll find that that is exactly why some members of the team are hesitant to engage. No one likes being called names, being told your work is sub par, or being generally insulted. Since I'm literally the only person actually required as part of my job to engage on a regular basis, you can probably guess that most people, facing some of the comments made here and elsewhere, would simply choose to stay away as there is no requirement they subject themselves to that. Even those who really enjoy engaging with players aren't going to do it often if they feel they're being insulted. Would you? Something to consider the next time you're about to hit the 'submit' button.

[Crell_1]

This was intended to be a lot more focused on showing off the next update and directly interacting with players. So I'm happy to hear we were at least partly successful there.

While the part directly centered around U13 which was what I expected for the press stream was nice, part of what rocked was that the team as a whole apparently chose to abandon that plan. Even more time was spent engaging concerns about both U14+ and addressing technical concerns to a degree I find it highly unlikely would have even been brought up in a regular press event.

I dont know if its just that the stream humanizes the team to that point that more players are choosing to positively interact, or if the players who are blatantly abusive toward the team aren't the sort to bother showing up at the stream (whether because they can't at the time of day or for some other reason).

I hope that the experiences of these streams and responses are improving the likelihood of seeing other developers step into the public eye for a bit to give it another shot. More so, I hope that the community as a whole, doesn't convince them they made the wrong choice to engage if they choose to make the effort.

The plan is to have more, but everyone should keep in mind that the #1 thing the team should be doing is making the game.

I dont have any way to know how different the private press feed environment is, but comparing today's event to DDO's 'players see a press preview' event makes me wonder if players would value someone recording and sharing the actual press-preview itself and releasing it after a reasonable delay to give the press a good chance to publish first.

[Beaniemooch]

Of course. They,we, us... we're human. Let's be very honest here, 'passion' sometimes is expressed in some very inappropriate ways and with a lot of vitriol and less than pleasant commentary. If i'm also being honest you'll find that that is exactly why some members of the team are hesitant to engage. No one likes being called names, being told your work is sub par, or being generally insulted. Since I'm literally the only person actually required as part of my job to engage on a regular basis, you can probably guess that most people, facing some of the comments made here and elsewhere, would simply choose to stay away as there is no requirement they subject themselves to that. Even those who really enjoy engaging with players aren't going to do it often if they feel they're being insulted. Would you? Something to consider the next time you're about to hit the 'submit' button.

Fair enough. But the flip side is we too are human, and while we may try to post suggestions our personal feelings are going to come out. Sometimes my feelings may hurt their feelings. The best way to work things out is usually explain where both sides are coming from, and I do feel that was a one-way street during HD beta and beyond.

I like the communication we're getting now and for me at least it's soothed some of the frustration and irritation I've felt. I still don't always like the message - but the mere fact I'm getting one helps. I still don't like the content at the moment - but I feel like what matters to me is at least being heard now. In the end I think that's all most of us really wanted.