OFFICIAL: Orlando Florida Player Meet and Greet - Saturday April 5, 2014

[Orodbril]

Well, you can create TP out of nothing, by means of the create character/ do starter deeds/delete/repeat method. Very little work required (especially if you have help).

I would think this was a gray area in the whole TP/MC world. It does have an indirect impact on real world currency. Even if Turbine is 100% in the right, a conversion system might be a good idea from a PR standpoint. Obviously I am no programming expert, but perhaps a 2 way conversion system would not be a huge thing to do, and budget wise could be part of the automated server transfer development cost.

Yes, but you still have to do something for these TP, that's the whole point of F2P, pay for TP/content or get via doing something/kind of work. With hobbit presents and lootboxes you just have to have luck, nothing else. Both I have said before (getting TP through deeds and luck on the other side).


I'm not opposing the ideas of you all, but there are just some obstacles which I want to show which have to be resolved otherwise these obstacles can create dissatisfaction later on.

So, if there would be a way to have MC account-wide without all these obstacles I'd be totally for it but the way it is right now I wouldn't like because of the named (although little in size, but large in effort) obstacles. Also when you buy MC you invest money into the game the same way you buy keys, items or whatever. You can't change these items back into TP, too, also the items also represent real currency in a kind. And also even TP are invested in the game, you can only use them in the game, nowhere else, you can't get money back for TP, so there is another little gap with the argument that it's representing real money, because even as TP it's money you can't get back and which is stuck in the game although it can be used for a larger area with the account instead of server which is a good point to prefer account-wide.

Again, I would totally like a implementation of this when there aren't these obstacles, but as long as there are these it's kind of a lost-lost situation instead of really functioning system.


And regarding any kind of loss (including items which represent money): You agreed to the EULA and therefore these two points:

7. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose.
8. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS' FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT.

In this case it's an excerpt from the USA-EULA, the UK and German version have the same content, French propably, too, but I can't assure that.

Orodbril

[Datheor]

Yes, but you still have to do something for these TP, that's the whole point of F2P, pay for TP/content or get via doing something/kind of work. With hobbit presents and lootboxes you just have to have luck, nothing else. Both I have said before (getting TP through deeds and luck on the other side).


I'm not opposing the ideas of you all, but there are just some obstacles which I want to show which have to be resolved otherwise these obstacles can create dissatisfaction later on.

So, if there would be a way to have MC account-wide without all these obstacles I'd be totally for it but the way it is right now I wouldn't like because of the named (although little in size, but large in effort) obstacles. Also when you buy MC you invest money into the game the same way you buy keys, items or whatever. You can't change these items back into TP, too, also the items also represent real currency in a kind. And also even TP are invested in the game, you can only use them in the game, nowhere else, you can't get money back for TP, so there is another little gap with the argument that it's representing real money, because even as TP it's money you can't get back and which is stuck in the game although it can be used for a larger area with the account instead of server which is a good point to prefer account-wide.

Again, I would totally like a implementation of this when there aren't these obstacles, but as long as there are these it's kind of a lost-lost situation instead of really functioning system.


And regarding any kind of loss (including items which represent money): You agreed to the EULA and therefore these two points:

7. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose.
8. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS' FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT.

In this case it's an excerpt from the USA-EULA, the UK and German version have the same content, French propably, too, but I can't assure that.

Orodbril

Agreed. But even keys you buy can be taken with you. Oh, and I realize you are playing Devils Advocate here. The obstacles may be quite a bit, but there are ways to budget for it, or even tie it back into past additional expenses. As many of us know, changing A can bring on unforeseen consequence F.

[Crell_1]

OK, I found a picture of the cosmetic version of the 5th Anniversary Cloak at http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Fifth_Anniversary_Cloak

The one Sapience was giving aways had a very similar back design but was in a dark green so it must have been the one they made for those giveaways. I guess he was trying to clear some storage space of old items to make run for future goodies.

I recall the RL versions being a darker green. I was looking for a shot of the RL cloaks, because the in-game shots were very easy to find. =)

[Crell_1]

Easy solution is to just make MC account-wide like TP.

It's far from easy when you realize they have no account-bound currencies that don't rely on a 3rd party vendor's systems.

All of their 'account level' storage stuff is really a 'every server gets its own empty stuff to work with' in the amount of the 'account's purchased available max total'

Some of this might be resolvable by not having MC as a currency swept up into the wallet automatically or removable (Ditto marks/meds/seals...) It's what we lost to get them as wallet stored items rather than as inventory items in the first place. I accept not being able to transfer them as the price of not having to find someplace to store them. Do I wish we could have some way of transferring them? Absolutely. It's one of the reasons I'm so reluctant to leave my server. One way this could perhaps be addressed is via a web interface allowing us to move them manually by saying just how much each currency we wanted to transfer for a one-time fee, or percentage loss to cover the transfer.

[Sapience]

But if I lose MC, that's real money I've put into the game and I have a right to know where it's going and have some means of restitution if things go wrong.

Not always. Remember, TP can be earned in game. A good number of people never spend a cent on the game and grind out TP and use it to buy MC. The game doesn't know the difference between purchased and earned TP. TP is TP. So the argument isn't entirely accurate.

Easy solution is to just make MC account-wide like TP.

Actually its very difficult for the reasons I mentioned and that were posted here. What you're really saying is you want major changes to the way the game works, a new currency system to replace MC (since it doesn't work the way you suggest) and significant changes to most of the store and in game functions surrounding any kind of external currency (TP is not in the game, it's external). So the one thing it would definitely NOT be is 'easy'.

[Crell_1]

Not always. Remember, TP can be earned in game. A good number of people never spend a cent on the game and grind out TP and use it to buy MC. The game doesn't know the difference between purchased and earned TP. TP is TP. So the argument isn't entirely accurate.

Or people who do spend $ on the game, have mithril coins, and never spent a cent to acquire them (via the initial conversion from a freely acquirable item [Festival Tickets], free hobbit gifts, lootboxes [where you don't buy the key from the store!], and the couple 'store giveaways' via the weekly free item coupon).

[Orodbril]

Not always. Remember, TP can be earned in game. A good number of people never spend a cent on the game and grind out TP and use it to buy MC. The game doesn't know the difference between purchased and earned TP. TP is TP. So the argument isn't entirely accurate.



Actually its very difficult for the reasons I mentioned and that were posted here. What you're really saying is you want major changes to the way the game works, a new currency system to replace MC (since it doesn't work the way you suggest) and significant changes to most of the store and in game functions surrounding any kind of external currency (TP is not in the game, it's external). So the one thing it would definitely NOT be is 'easy'.

Yes, all the MC I had so far were from former never used revival tokens, Lootboxes and Hobbit Presents - except on Bullroarer

[Sezneg]

Sure: Sapience said "Yes.... no, he'd think about it, and definitely in the works." Basically, every question we posed to him, he answered, including the mystery Horseshoe question! What does the Horseshoe do?? Nothing that we had tried thus far!

You may have missed it but Sapience was actually QUITE clear on two things that the lucky horse shoe does:

1. If you are wearing it at the next stage of the quest where it is originally awarded, some of the quest text is changed.
2. If worn at the winter festival snowball fights, you get some minor boosts on throwing and lower penalties on being hit that give you an advantage over others.

There are other things, he said, and they may add more. From these examples I would think that anything they do add would be "fun stuff" rather than major game mech stuff. But that's conjecture, which I wouldn't want to confuse with what little he did tell us.

[kickman77]

You may have missed it but Sapience was actually QUITE clear on two things that the lucky horse shoe does:

1. If you are wearing it at the next stage of the quest where it is originally awarded, some of the quest text is changed.
2. If worn at the winter festival snowball fights, you get some minor boosts on throwing and lower penalties on being hit that give you an advantage over others.

There are other things, he said, and they may add more. From these examples I would think that anything they do add would be "fun stuff" rather than major game mech stuff. But that's conjecture, which I wouldn't want to confuse with what little he did tell us.

There is also a awesome easter egg if you wear it while doing the quest in bree where you save the turtles and get access to the house in bree.

PM me if you want to know what the easter egg is.

[Grimsin'sRiders]

I don't know... as far as the horseshoe goes - I mean.....IT'S LUCKY!, right? Maybe Sapience can answer this, or maybe not, but as far as Lotro game mechanics go - Are Luck & Fate the same thing? I know traditionally, D&D-type rulesets involve a Luck-roll-type component, but I'm not sure how it is applied (if at all) in Lotro. I simply wear the thing everywhere I go until I come across a mob that needs that extra bit of might that I may get from wearing some other pocket item. Seems to me that if the horseshoe is indeed Lucky, then surely I can use all the Luck I can get.

Grim

[kickman77]

The shoe does exactly what Seznig says above plus a few easter eggs (like the one I mentioned)

According to Sapience sometimes they add things... sometimes they don't.

I do believe it helps your cave claw in the treasure hunt as well, but as far as loot and mobs.. it does nothing

[Datheor]

I think if we still have it by the time we hit lvl 100, we should get a horse to go with it! A special mount, for those that have kept the thing despite the desire to toss it and make inventory room.

[whosjgalt]

I think if we still have it by the time we hit lvl 100, we should get a horse to go with it! A special mount, for those that have kept the thing despite the desire to toss it and make inventory room.

Now, that's funny! Kickman: You are indeed right; Sapience did clarify the horseshoe. What I said was all the things we tried on Vilya to see what worked and didn't and had fun doing it! What I was more rightly trying to state was that Sapience answered every question we had... for hours. What more could we ask for in our community manager?

[Datheor]

Pherenn, did you try having 13 dwarves, all holding the horseshoe, stand in a circle chanting "Soon Sapience...Soon" 13 times, then rushing the cat ladies house? I heard that opens a dimensional portal to the Mt. Doom.

And if you plan on trying that, let me know, I have got to record it!

[kickman77]

Now, that's funny! Kickman: You are indeed right; Sapience did clarify the horseshoe. What I said was all the things we tried on Vilya to see what worked and didn't and had fun doing it! What I was more rightly trying to state was that Sapience answered every question we had... for hours. What more could we ask for in our community manager?

That is one of the reasons I take the time to plan this when Rick says he is coming. The first one in 2013 was amazing and this past one blew that out of the water. Being able to sit down and have that face time with Sapience (or as in the Boston Meet Up) some of the other devs is amazing. Sapience does take back those suggestions to the devs and answers everything he possible can without twisting any words. Like the horseshoe. He told us exactly what it does. No play on words.

As for me. Even though I know it does not effect loot, I still use it before looting lol. Old habbits die hard I guess.

As far as more meet and greet, hopefully Sapience can show WB how successful these past 3 were and get some funding to fly him and a dev multiple places around the country for these. People want them and will come. Its time to make the Lotro Community #1 again

[Datheor]

That is one of the reasons I take the time to plan this when Rick says he is coming. The first one in 2013 was amazing and this past one blew that out of the water. Being able to sit down and have that face time with Sapience (or as in the Boston Meet Up) some of the other devs is amazing. Sapience does take back those suggestions to the devs and answers everything he possible can without twisting any words. Like the horseshoe. He told us exactly what it does. No play on words.

As for me. Even though I know it does not effect loot, I still use it before looting lol. Old habbits die hard I guess.

As far as more meet and greet, hopefully Sapience can show WB how successful these past 3 were and get some funding to fly him and a dev multiple places around the country for these. People want them and will come. Its time to make the Lotro Community #1 again

Agreed. Even if the Devs cannot come, maybe we could meet, have some fun, discuss the game and put together a list of questions and concerns that we can forward on to Rick. You suggestion of this fall is a good time to try it out, in my opinion.

[Datheor]

That is one of the reasons I take the time to plan this when Rick says he is coming. The first one in 2013 was amazing and this past one blew that out of the water. Being able to sit down and have that face time with Sapience (or as in the Boston Meet Up) some of the other devs is amazing. Sapience does take back those suggestions to the devs and answers everything he possible can without twisting any words. Like the horseshoe. He told us exactly what it does. No play on words.

As for me. Even though I know it does not effect loot, I still use it before looting lol. Old habbits die hard I guess.

As far as more meet and greet, hopefully Sapience can show WB how successful these past 3 were and get some funding to fly him and a dev multiple places around the country for these. People want them and will come. Its time to make the Lotro Community #1 again

Agreed. Even if the Devs cannot come, maybe we could meet, have some fun, discuss the game and put together a list of questions and concerns that we can forward on to Rick. You suggestion of this fall is a good time to try it out, in my opinion.

[kickman77]

Agreed. Even if the Devs cannot come, maybe we could meet, have some fun, discuss the game and put together a list of questions and concerns that we can forward on to Rick. You suggestion of this fall is a good time to try it out, in my opinion.

Yeah.. I wanted to do one last fall, but as mot of you seen I had a medical boot on my foot from something that came up and because of that had to cancel last falls. So hopefully (fingers crossed) my health keeps up