Scaled Freep Armour and Other Concerns

[Shumzuda]

Concerns about the gear:
The moors armour that costs 800 commendations per piece is not granting and audacity.
The moors armour is giving unusual, unhelpful stats
The moors armour is not boosting the item level to the 95 standard teal amount.

Other Concerns:
I have a critical chance of 3.4% - way under what I would need to run a moors build.
Base morale is around 13.5k, far too low to be effective.
I do not have access to a slow at my level so can simply be kited.

EDIT: here are a few of the numbers coming out:
Gashkuth scored a critical hit with Impale on Mothers for 4,206 Orc-craft damage to Morale.
Gashkuth scored a critical hit with Devastating Strike on Mothers for 4,732 Orc-craft damage to Morale.
Gashkuth scored a devastating hit with Lacerate on Mothers for 1,378 Orc-craft damage to Morale.
Gashkuth scored a critical hit with Serration on Engels for 1,809 Orc-craft damage to Morale.

Conclusion:

• Scaled armour needs to be buffed.
• Scaled 95 freeps need access to skill trees.
• This mechanic was not ready to be made live.

[DiorEluchil]

Concerns about the gear:
The moors armour that costs 800 commendations per piece is not granting and audacity.
The moors armour is giving unusual, unhelpful stats
The moors armour is not boosting the item level to the 95 standard teal amount.

Other Concerns:
I have a critical chance of 3.4% - way under what I would need to run a moors build.
Base morale is around 13.5k, far too low to be effective.
I do not have access to a slow at my level so can simply be kited.

EDIT: here are a few of the numbers coming out:
Gashkuth scored a critical hit with Impale on Mothers for 4,206 Orc-craft damage to Morale.
Gashkuth scored a critical hit with Devastating Strike on Mothers for 4,732 Orc-craft damage to Morale.
Gashkuth scored a devastating hit with Lacerate on Mothers for 1,378 Orc-craft damage to Morale.
Gashkuth scored a critical hit with Serration on Engels for 1,809 Orc-craft damage to Morale.

Conclusion:

• Scaled armour needs to be buffed.
• Scaled 95 freeps need access to skill trees.
• This mechanic was not ready to be made live.

I dont see the point in implemting this when there is so many other concerns with the moors. Like the fact that we are still in the moors....

[J2theMul]

well just as i thought those scaled freeps are human shields for us vets....If those peoples first visit/impression of the moors is to be human shields i dont see them staying out there very long especially at the cost of it.

Agreed about were still in the moors but hey we have a helms deeps skirmish bieng sold as a "big battle" what a wasted opportunity for a new pvp area /shakeshead

[Shumzuda]

Perhaps the pieces of armour were incorrectly scaled? The item description is that 'this gear is as powerful as 95 gear' but those stats are several orders of magnitude away from being the same as 95 gear.

[Sniz]

Hm scaled freeps might be so woefully underpowered that maybe they should fight for creepside.

[Ugmo]

I dont see the point in implemting this when there is so many other concerns with the moors.

Why not? Scaled freeps!

[Blackheart-Fury]

Obviously the system needs alot of tweaks. It will get better w/ time( i think)

[mrfigglesworth]

Why not? Scaled freeps!

seasoned in Worcestershire sauce!

[wretchesandkings]

I brought my lvl 85 warden wearing lv 85 jewellery and aud gear, and the scaled stats are on par compared to an actual lvl 95 I believe. Only problems are that i can't obtain full audacity and my LI didn't scale

[MithrielWielder]

Exactly like level 10 chars being scaled for big battles. They were really only scaled up to about level 35 or so and were unable to do any dps. Totally unworkable. Of course, no one actually let them join real fellowships or raids. Its impossible to balance it, and they aren't really going to try. After the first two weeks, there wont be any scaled up chars going to the Moors, just like there aren't any scaled chars doing battles while grouped with real chars.

[J2theMul]

From what I saw I d8nt think it will be 2 weeks ive seen a lot leave already thier bieng exploded as if they werent scaled 7s the best way to put it.

[Gedrevn]

The system was created with two basic misconceptions:

1. Scaled Freeps need to play in the Moors in order to "Level Up" - The idea being they need to have some sort of progression in order to make them continue participating in the Moors, and also not be more powerful than veteran Freeps. They already aren't...especially since they don't have access to a bunch of skills.

2. That Finesse is a necessary stat in the Moors. - It helps, but it helps way less than more necessary stats like Vitality, Character Stat (Will, Agi, Str), Critical, Tac Mastery, Mitigations


The system in place as it is now, charges players hourly to play and basically sets them up to get absolutely dominated by even low level creeps. It gives "scaling" armor that doesn't add much to survivability or effectiveness in the Moors, costs more than can be easily obtained by a PvP newbie, and needs to be upgraded every 10 levels. And all of that's on top of a complete lack of skills, legendary items rank, and some Audacity. When you combine those things with the U13 Creep damage and healing upgrade, and Freep mitigation nerf (as necessary as any of those things may or may not have been), it's just a recipe for an even more unbalanced disaster.

[spelunker]

I said it on the BR forums and I'll repeat it again.

Give every scaled freep that enters the moors the exact same thing based on their class, so every scaled freep of a given class is identical.
-lvl 95 3rd age LI equivalent weapon damage rating (currently weapon damage seems to cap around 150dps, where a lvl 95 3rd age is rated around 200 iirc, and 2nd agers around 225) If they're of high enough level to have LIs, let them keep whatever legacies they may have.
-R14 virtues, this is actually already quite good, no need to change.
-27k mastery (this is lower than 95% of lvl 95 freeps in the moors, seems like a low but still useable value)
-12-15% crit
-Agility classes get 10% parry chance, and 15% evade chance (before class bonuses)
-Might classes get 10% parry chance and 15% block, if they can't block, just 15% parry
-Will classes get no bpe
-Everyone gets 15k morale.
-Everyone gets 15 audacity
-45 Trait points to spend (lvl 95 freeps have 67 possible), 45 is basically enough to get everything important in your main spec, with a couple points to unlock something vital in another spec, like dust in the eyes for a burglar.


Scaling is way too big a can of worms for the current Dev team to handle, and every day the current steaming pile continues to exist is another chance for people who might actually be interested in trying out the moors to get curbstomped and never come back (or just go creepside, which is ok). The above would put scaled freeps at a worse footing than level capped freeps with any semblance of gear, and certainly worse off than any ranked creeps, but allow them to be competitive with R2-6 creeps and actually contribute in group encounters.

[knightjohn]

I like being able to go to the moors as a low level. As it is now i die very quickly. i usually last less than 5 seconds. it gets tiring be killed so fast and much without even being able to put a scratch on creeps.

[Mirey]

I've been experimenting with a level 75 burg and scaling in the moors works ok but there are caveats. The biggest is probably that your gear must be the same level as you if you are to get the most benefit from it.

Fully equipped with moors armour, teal equipment and level 75 BB jewellery my stats for morale, physical mastery, mitigations, crit rating, finesse and BPE are equivalent or better to my similarly equipped level 95 hunter (mitigations are much, much better - with something like Sarchol my scaled mitigations would be close to cap). The downside is that my crit defence is very low (I think set bonuses on armour aren't getting scaled), stun and root pots are restricted to level 95, and that Audacity damage reduction tops out at 20%.

The biggest issue however is that my LIs don't scale to be anywhere near what a proper 95 would be carrying, so I end up with DPS and HPS that is on the low side of respectable - this is with a level 75 FA sword maxed out with Star-Lit crystals. If they fix up the LI scaling and remove the level gating on the CC pots then freeping in the moors below level cap would be pretty damn good.

[OruiFarimur]

The biggest is probably that your gear must be the same level as you if you are to get the most benefit from it.

Hmmm...

Also, scaled characters aren't intended to be as good as capped characters.

[SabrielofLorien]

I have a L42 Hunter and L93 LM I take to the moors freepside. Auto-scaled is just not much fun at all freepside and I only come out freepside to "help" the freeps, if the creeps are targeting me, then I am the cannon fodder for the higher levels.

I won't ever get the armour on offer (if what I saw at GV is "the armour") for my L42 as it's way less of everything he has now and he would die even faster. He gets the base Aud+9 on auto-scale. His "self cure" only scaled to L43 so I can only use the 100 pots to clear debuffs and with the cool down it's hardly worth using it. He has no LIs or other uber gear. He doesn't even have a capstone skill.

My L93 LM has a full set of L95 PVMP armour in the vault but I doubt at the rate I'm going that I will get to use it before the new level cap happens as I'm an official turtle now. My LM is wearing a full set of L85 PVMP armour and is R9 but dies like a fly with a single swat. Take your pick: 1 reaver flash or 1 spider spittoon. (got a laugh yesterday the creep armour debuff set my armour value to ZERO)

I like the fact I can come freepside now but boy it takes a lot to just sit on the GV steps until some Full Audacity, Pure L95, First Aged and Geared, R13+ players show up and open a group.

Sure hope some of the PVMP folks on the PC go roll a L40 freep and see what it's really like. It's a lot different at L93 than L40 and way different at L95 with a purple icon ranking.

One good thing is that if we do get a RvR and the leader isn't too selective, we can have good fights but I'm not sure how much my L42 Hunter is contributing to it. Running Trapper Line I see items in the combat log like "trap did 42 damage to warg" "trap did 32 damage to reaver" "trap did 52 damage to BA" etc. I doubt it contributes really anything but the groups are nice to let us leach in exchange for buffer services. My Hunter got to R4 in 2 outings so at least he has a map to GV now.

[spelunker]

I have a L42 Hunter and L93 LM I take to the moors freepside. Auto-scaled is just not much fun at all freepside and I only come out freepside to "help" the freeps, if the creeps are targeting me, then I am the cannon fodder for the higher levels.

I won't ever get the armour on offer (if what I saw at GV is "the armour") for my L42 as it's way less of everything he has now and he would die even faster. He gets the base Aud+9 on auto-scale. His "self cure" only scaled to L43 so I can only use the 100 pots to clear debuffs and with the cool down it's hardly worth using it. He has no LIs or other uber gear. He doesn't even have a capstone skill.

My L93 LM has a full set of L95 PVMP armour in the vault but I doubt at the rate I'm going that I will get to use it before the new level cap happens as I'm an official turtle now. My LM is wearing a full set of L85 PVMP armour and is R9 but dies like a fly with a single swat. Take your pick: 1 reaver flash or 1 spider spittoon. (got a laugh yesterday the creep armour debuff set my armour value to ZERO)

I like the fact I can come freepside now but boy it takes a lot to just sit on the GV steps until some Full Audacity, Pure L95, First Aged and Geared, R13+ players show up and open a group.

Sure hope some of the PVMP folks on the PC go roll a L40 freep and see what it's really like. It's a lot different at L93 than L40 and way different at L95 with a purple icon ranking.

One good thing is that if we do get a RvR and the leader isn't too selective, we can have good fights but I'm not sure how much my L42 Hunter is contributing to it. Running Trapper Line I see items in the combat log like "trap did 42 damage to warg" "trap did 32 damage to reaver" "trap did 52 damage to BA" etc. I doubt it contributes really anything but the groups are nice to let us leach in exchange for buffer services. My Hunter got to R4 in 2 outings so at least he has a map to GV now.

Which is it?

Just a toss in the salad bowl.

I took a L42 hunter out to the Ettenmoors and it was actually pretty fun. I have no LIs, no armour, no audacity, no pots (L55 pots is all I have), moral and power pots that are on level won't hardly make a dent when the reavers hit you for 4K a swing. It reminded me of when the moors was L40-L50. I got to R3 in one go.

I took a tour around GV check what was available there for me and there was nothing. All required L95 and way more than R3. I was actually relieved. I don't have to bother grinding for gear or LIs or audacity. I can just go out have fun, run back from the rez when I die and enjoy being the warg bait. No one expects a L42 to do more than that.

So I will likely leave my R9s & R10 at home and go have fun on the moors with my lowbees.

[SabrielofLorien]

It's both... just depends on who's on the moors and experience.

There seem to be 3 groups: The Max Rank Group. The Mid-Rank blue tag Group. The Auto-Scaled Group.

It also depends on which side you are playing too.

[Humbabumba]

On this one, i give kudos to turbine for even trying. No matter how messy it turned out, its still an effort.
Thing is, creepside gets out and fighting in minutes of char creation. Freepside have month of work to levl up, do the deeds like use x skill 1000 times etc. And i am not counting halfbaked powerleveled toons with no class trait points or virues, as anything else then cannonfolder. Noone in right mind cant hope to achive anything on em in moors currently. Ofc, ther are ways, leeching etc. But its not fighting in person or winning a fight.

Now, for even trying to adress the issue, kudos. Realisticly, i am not sure will there be an improvement on this, as there are other issues in moors for full auda max tned 95-s. Practicly, you can buy a Right char, you buy few Right skills in store, an you have more comms comming you way on a 3min old toon, then you can ever maage on 95 melee freep.

But for even trying, effort counts on that one.

[Shumzuda]

On this one, i give kudos to turbine for even trying. No matter how messy it turned out, its still an effort.
Thing is, creepside gets out and fighting in minutes of char creation. Freepside have month of work to levl up, do the deeds like use x skill 1000 times etc. And i am not counting halfbaked powerleveled toons with no class trait points or virues, as anything else then cannonfolder. Noone in right mind cant hope to achive anything on em in moors currently. Ofc, ther are ways, leeching etc. But its not fighting in person or winning a fight.

Now, for even trying to adress the issue, kudos. Realisticly, i am not sure will there be an improvement on this, as there are other issues in moors for full auda max tned 95-s. Practicly, you can buy a Right char, you buy few Right skills in store, an you have more comms comming you way on a 3min old toon, then you can ever maage on 95 melee freep.

But for even trying, effort counts on that one.

I don't think I have been remotely threatrened by any creep under r5 even after U13 (solo).

[Jeffor]

One other thing that I noticed is that any level scaled freep under 40 seems to be relegated to common damage weapons. Maybe add some lowbie weapons to the GV barters for lower levels. Also, the level scaled freeps need to be able to reach higher audacity. My level 40 LM maxes out at 12 for example. The LM damage didn't scale well either, but CC seems to work fine: although, I get a lot of resists. I suspect, however, that it is like that for 95 LMs as well. The system has promise but it does need some adjustments.

One other thing, I don't know if legendary weapons scale well. I don't think that they have item levels like the rest of the gear. My scaled 85 hunter seemed to be hitting very low and I don't think the DPS on his legendary bow scaled at all from what I remember.

[Humbabumba]

Common damage mit is average 60%. Belerian, westernesse mitigations go to 68%. That is why some 95 s 9n moors run with common damage. It does more damagenthen l or westernesse.

Scaled freep not hitting anything is finesse and mastery issue. There is no way to fix it in client side.

It may sound bad, it is not i tended so, but the best somemlvl 40 can do, is deeds, virtues trait points. And have alot of fun while doing it. Spar you mates if you want to. But anything meaningful in moors, i fail to see howto do it, other ghen healleaching a raid. And it maybe my lack of skills, but i really dont see how scale reep could win a figh in moors.

[Shumzuda]

A rough solution to the problem of pre-Moria toon weapons would be to:

Create a weapon type only available in the moors equal to a level 95 third age and add these to the scaled freep barter NPCs - attach standard legacies to these weapons but have them only usable inside the Ettenmoors in the same way as root/stun potions. Not sure how they could figure it out with the tech.

[Jeffor]

Common damage mit is average 60%. Belerian, westernesse mitigations go to 68%. That is why some 95 s 9n moors run with common damage. It does more damagenthen l or westernesse.

Scaled freep not hitting anything is finesse and mastery issue. There is no way to fix it in client side.

It may sound bad, it is not i tended so, but the best somemlvl 40 can do, is deeds, virtues trait points. And have alot of fun while doing it. Spar you mates if you want to. But anything meaningful in moors, i fail to see howto do it, other ghen healleaching a raid. And it maybe my lack of skills, but i really dont see how scale reep could win a figh in moors.

I agree and disagree. There is much that my 40 LM cannot do. I will not be soloing many creeps, I cannot do any DPS really and there are other things where she is lacking. That being said, I can still CC, feed power and things like that. Finesse and mastery can easliy be buffed up for level scaled freeps if that's an issue. Lack of trait tree points hurts the lower levels. LM debuffs are not fleshed out at level 40 for example. I suspect that the scaling will undergo some tweaks. Overall I still think the system has promise. I liked the scaled PVP in SWTOR for instance. It was fun even though you weren't as good as level 50 players. I like that it takes the emphasis off of hurrying to level cap as well. More options for players is always a good thing imo.