Possible changes to the Reaver Class!

[Alcatrazz]

First of all, yes I know turbine doesn’t care about 1vs1(not spars!) balance or balance at all but I’d like to point out some issues I tihink there are concerning reavers.
Reaver(at least high ranked) is one of the strongest /maybe the strongest, monsterclass in 1vs1 fights against most freeps but it’s very sad that most of it’s power in those situations comes from selfhealing which shouldn’t be on a dps class. Against most Freepclasses the fights ends in a healfest even wihtout a healer so I think there are some changes needed in terms of selfhealing on both sides. I’d like to point out some changes I’d like to see on the reaver to be more potent in all situatuions.

• Give reavers a significant dps boost, and please not only a huge buff to Impale and/or Dev strike but a major buff to the low cd skills (Ravage, Sudden Strikes) and the bleed skills to make reavers less dependant on Impale
• Wrath revamp. I always thougth selfhealing on dps classes is a silly thing so I’d like to see Wrath become another dps buff like controlled burn/burn hot which also applies a defeat response
• Remove cd of Sudden Strikes. Mostly for low ranked reavers, they can’t even deal damage the whole time
• Increase icpr and power restoration of time-out to compensate the loss of power restoration of wrath
• Increase Finesse rating on Quick Strikes Trait
• Make enhanced Upper Hand more useful by extending the duration of the armour buff also
• Increase range of melee skills to 4.2m. Its very frustrating if melee freeps can kite you and deal dmg while you can't reach them with most of your skills.
• A more cosmetic change I would appreciate: change animation of Sudden Stikes back to the old one (pre ror) and make it hit harder due to a bit longer animation. I don’t like the current animation, it doesn’t look like a strike.

That are a few changes I would appreciate. So lesser/no selfhealing but more damage, i guess that should work well especially in group/raid fights.

[Armdyl]

you don't even depend on impale anymore. it hits like a wet noodle.

[lugbur]

you don't even depend on impale anymore. it hits like a wet noodle.

yea, it hits like a wet noodle. but if you want burst from a reaver, its coming from impale. thats about all they can do.

[joshy8910]

I like to see Upper Hand be a -Evade Rating effect rather than -Block Rating, that way its more viable against all classes and not just ones with shield/yellow cappies. Other than that, I think Reavers are fine where they are.

[Alcatrazz]

Well I don't like the fact that I can easily reach 1.2k hps just by using wrath on cd, and thats on a dps class while the dmg is way to low (especially in group/raid fights) to take down freeps with 35-55k Morale. I had several fights against mini/guard/beorning/lm/rk and I wasn't able to take them down while they weren't able to kill me most of the time. Even if one of us died it took at least 3mins. I mean its a good thing that fights lasts longer than 10s but 3+ mins for one fight are a bit too much I would say.

I group fights its even worse. Wrath doesn't matter that much in group/raid fights and the dmg is way to low(ofc not only on reaver) to take down healers with 45k+ morale.

My intention about the listed changes was to make reaver a real dps class and not such a tanky monster.

I even did more damage to freeps on level 95 (before U13 and freep mits nerf) then I do now but the difference now is that the morale pool of the freeps is doubled.

[Rognomli]

Even after the buff we got on 16.2(lol) I still hit heavy armored freeps for less than 1k average hits with 6 masteries slotted.Bleed ticks are even worse with them averaging less than half of the tooltip value.I agree that we need a big DPS boost on other skills even if that comes to a cost of reducing possible damage from Impale.

I guess one can argue that Reavers have very high mitigations and a good amount of self heals but that only results to boring fights if you have to grind out and rely on your heals because you hit like a wet noodle:P
With the new Audacity Essence Armor freeps acquired with this update EVEN Impale hits really bad on a freep that has a clue and doesn't run around with 0% critical defense.

[Alcatrazz]

I guess one can argue that Reavers have very high mitigations and a good amount of self heals but that only results to boring fights if you have to grind out and rely on your heals because you hit like a wet noodle:P

That's exactly the point. Reaver isn't that bad in terms of 1vs1 but the fights are really boring and the strength isn't dps but the heals and in my eyes that's a failure when a dps class gets his power from heals.

[Armdyl]

Even after the buff we got on 16.2(lol) I still hit heavy armored freeps for less than 1k average hits with 6 masteries slotted.Bleed ticks are even worse with them averaging less than half of the tooltip value.I agree that we need a big DPS boost on other skills even if that comes to a cost of reducing possible damage from Impale.

I guess one can argue that Reavers have very high mitigations and a good amount of self heals but that only results to boring fights if you have to grind out and rely on your heals because you hit like a wet noodle:P
With the new Audacity Essence Armor freeps acquired with this update EVEN Impale hits really bad on a freep that has a clue and doesn't run around with 0% critical defense.

I'll save myself the trouble now and just take it off my action bar if you want to further make impale even more useless for more sustained damage(buffing the sustained damage and buffing impale damage would not cause any unbalance at all). the old audacity sets had about 50% cit defense by wearing sets of 2 and this one new one has about 60% when wearing the full set. what makes you think impale was going to get any better?

[Rognomli]

I agree it wouldn't cause any imbalances,but in the eyes of Turbine Impale is an OP skill so I highly doubt they would want to rollback it's potency to where it was before.Now more than ever that any decent freep has capped Orc-Craft mitigations the need for Impale to bypass mitigations like it used to is very evident.But not complaining to be honest as Impale is still the go to skill if you want to kill a good Freep.

[Armdyl]

I agree it wouldn't cause any imbalances,but in the eyes of Turbine Impale is an OP skill so I highly doubt they would want to rollback it's potency to where it was before.Now more than ever that any decent freep has capped Orc-Craft mitigations the need for Impale to bypass mitigations like it used to is very evident.But not complaining to be honest as Impale is still the go to skill if you want to kill a good Freep.

it is but it hits guards and wardens and champs very, very weak.

[Alcatrazz]

it is but it hits guards and wardens and champs very, very weak.

Thats true, but thats not only the problem with impale but with all other skills. Dev strike once was a finishing skill now it does next to no damage compare to what it does ages ago.

[galrodan]

after some 1v1s and group play in the new update i gotta say reavers are pretty well balanced... if not a bit OP
«Mukal-1»
Brandywine-Landroval-Riddermark

[Alcatrazz]

after some 1v1s and group play in the new update i gotta say reavers are pretty well balanced... if not a bit OP

Well maybe they are balanced in 1vs1 I will not deny that. But the way they are balanced is not the right one in my opinion. I mean a dps class which has a higher hps than dps? I would say there is something wrong.

And that reavers are OP I do deny. The only class which has no chance against a good reaver is hunter. All other classes have a chance.

Improve dps while lower hps wouldn cause any issues in 1vs1 while they would push reavers potency in group/raid fights.

[zolander]

As a Full time reaver this is what i got.
First of all, I dont want any of the reaver healing skills to be nerfed unless guardian/warden healing skills will get a nerf.
Increase the DPS of the reaver overall, and not only impale. Because at Raids, we are pretty not doing anythinng, our DPS Does nothing.
in 1v1 its pretty fair, even without impale or any healing skills

[Alcatrazz]

First of all, I dont want any of the reaver healing skills to be nerfed unless guardian/warden healing skills will get a nerf.

Well just because other classes are over the top in terms of selfhealing other classes must not. Reaver was much more fun without those silly selfheal even if you weren't able to beat every class.

Increase the DPS of the reaver overall, and not only impale. Because at Raids, we are pretty not doing anythinng, our DPS Does nothing.

Thats it, but to be honest its not only an issue with reavers dps. But reavers are more potent in a 1vs1 situation due to exaggerated selfheal thats why I think a nerf in heals is necessary when dps will be increased.

in 1v1 its pretty fair, even without impale or any healing skills

Without Impale or healing skills you won't win anything against a good equiped and well played freep which doesn't limits himself.

[Armdyl]

Thats it, but to be honest its not only an issue with reavers dps. But reavers are more potent in a 1vs1 situation due to exaggerated selfheal thats why I think a nerf in heals is necessary when dps will be increased.

the only classes that your healing makes a difference on his hunters and loremasters. every other class looks at your healing and laughs as they melt you away.

Without Impale or healing skills you won't win anything against a good equiped and well played freep which doesn't limits himself.

hunters are about your only good chance if they don't limit themselves. champions you have no chance what so ever when abusing champion's duel and fight on. same goes for guard and warden.

[Spilo]

Reavers are in a fine position if certain freep class imbalances are addressed. The only changes they need are making Wrath spam less possible with a nerf to Improved Sudden Strikes, and a buff to Devastating Strike OR make Impale pass through mitigations (not quite to its old degree, but somewhere in between).

[Alcatrazz]

Reavers are in a fine position if certain freep class imbalances are addressed.

So certain means almost every freep class? Guard/Ward/Mini/RK/Beorning/LM (all while traited for dmg), all these classes can outheal creeps dps in 1vs1 if they want to and even champs can do that ( depend on the reset of fight on and how much they are kiting)

But let us ignore 1vs1, then still healing is the problem. So till turben will not nerf freep healing, monsters dps need a huge boost. A boost in dmg without any other nerfs to reaver would be too much I agree.

Ofc I'm talking about well played and good equiped freeps. Means at least 35k morale and not some squishy freeps with 20-25k morale.

... and a buff to Devastating Strike OR make Impale pass through mitigations (not quite to its old degree, but somewhere in between).

Only buffing dev strike wouldn't help reavers next to nothing in case of their potency in both, group and solo fights. You first need enougth dmg to take down the enemy to 50% life. And making reavers more dependant on Impale again is a bad decision in my opinion. Reaver (and all other monster dps'ers) need more overall dmg.

[joshy8910]

And that reavers are OP I do deny. The only class which has no chance against a good reaver is hunter.

I disagree with this. Yellow line hunters can dominate, and that's not even considering the new audacity gear. Seeing the new imbued legacies with the new audacity gear, I'm gonna try my hand at my hunter again and I think I could do well out there in blue/red hybrid.

[Bucataru]

I don't think so. Reavers get stun and root immunity with their charge... and afterwards are in melee range.

[LegendOfKamikazee]

Reavers for me just need 2 tweaks

* Increase wrath CD, so we have less overall healing.
* Increase base damage

The problem we have is every freep class except burg and hunter can outheal our dps. This is the biggest problem in pvp, freep healing is massively OP.

[LegendOfKamikazee]

I disagree with this. Yellow line hunters can dominate, and that's not even considering the new audacity gear. Seeing the new imbued legacies with the new audacity gear, I'm gonna try my hand at my hunter again and I think I could do well out there in blue/red hybrid.

In the past a good yellow line hunter could beat a reaver however with the recent pot changes I think this maybe a lot harder now.

[InsaneChaos]

I've spent some time thinking of ways to improve Reaver's raid functionality, but not make it overpowered in 1 vs 1s. Just some thoughts to throw out there.
This is with the mindset that the reaver is meant to be an overall nuisance that gets in people's faces and is difficult to slow down.

Give/modify the a reaver skill that creates a 5-8 m aura around the reaver, that inflicts a 10% positional incoming damage debuff (vulnerable to attacks from behind.) Maybe modify Blood of Fire for this (cause its still laughably useless.)

Resilience: Make the base skill already give the 5 seconds of CC immunity (that being said, I've never seen the enhanced trait actually provide the immunity.)
But then change the enhanced trait to only give movement immunity (slows and roots), but at a much lower cool down and a high power cost.

Time-Out: provide a Finesse buff instead of power.

Allow Dying Rage to be triggered at 50% morale, instead of 15%. As of now, Dying Rage is only useful in 1 vs 1s and is nothing more than a cheap trick, and completely useless in raids, though it could have some utility if useable a bit earlier. Though I imagine it could be abused, with multiple reavers popping it to take down a single enemy and then getting WL rezzed. But still free infamy for the freeps right?
(Still useless for defilers though.)

I could be wrong about this, but Devastating Strike's IncHeal debuff seems to be almost always dispelled during raid battles. So in order to reduce its 1 vs 1 potency, but make it raid viable, make it completely undispellable but give it a much shorter duration, maybe 6 seconds.

And I think it'd be neat if there was an AOE skill that reduced overall enemy damage output for 10 m, but increased your incoming damage from affected targets.

Just some thoughts, and I by no means think they should all be implemented at the same time, but it'd mix things around a bit.

[Alcatrazz]

Give/modify the a reaver skill that creates a 5-8 m aura around the reaver, that inflicts a 10% positional incoming damage debuff (vulnerable to attacks from behind.) Maybe modify Blood of Fire for this (cause its still laughably useless.)

That is something I wouldn't give to reavers but rather to WLs aura. But honestly I think thats not necessary.

Resilience: Make the base skill already give the 5 seconds of CC immunity (that being said, I've never seen the enhanced trait actually provide the immunity.)
But then change the enhanced trait to only give movement immunity (slows and roots), but at a much lower cool down and a high power cost.

Sounds good to me in RvsR/GvsG Situations but I thing it may be a bit to powerful in 1vs1 if the CD/Duration is no balanced well.

Time-Out: provide a Finesse buff instead of power.

I would like to see a finesse buff to bloodlust rather than time out. I would prefer an increased icpr and power restoration to time out to compensate the -20% from audacity.


I wouldn't make to much changes to the reaver class. In general I like reaver how it is, just to much healing and to less damage. That doesn't need big changes to solve the issues.

[joshy8910]

In the past a good yellow line hunter could beat a reaver however with the recent pot changes I think this maybe a lot harder now.

For the hunter? On the contrary I think. New audacity gear, imbued legendaries, etc. Gives room for a lot of customization for builds. I think hunter may be more powerful than ever in yellow line. That being said, I plan to go out on my hunter again soon enough, but I'm going to be in a blue line/red line hybrid. Personally though, if as a player they are using heal pots in 1v1s, then they must not be that good.