Bullroarer Update 23 Preview #6: Feedback Thread

[Hephburz-2]

We have heard your feedback on this, and it is not our intention for you to earn tokens and not be able (have the required reputation) to spend them before reaching a cap. For now, the team is going to increase the cap for Marks of the Longbeards to 400.

If you must have a cap, please raise it to at least 500! Or better yet just remove it altogether, 400 is pushing it, you will barely be kindred IF you use rep accelerators, think of all the people who do not?

[Cordovan]

50 ignots? Hello?




Also rare necklace and pocket both have 1 essence slot SAME AS teal one. Teal must have 2 essence slots slots, probably a bug.

I spoke to the team about the cost of 50 Ironfold Ingots, and that number is accurate, since these are the most common of the ingredients. The expectation is it should take most players about an hour in the Resource Instances to get that amount, which seems reasonable.

[Seodric]

Actually they've been falling behind since Mordor launch over a year ago, which is why those relics (and their later removal) were such a big deal. Happy to hear it's getting a fix though -- you might also want to look into Tactical Healing Rating (LI main legacy for healing) since that one hasn't been aging well either.

Should be one of the reasons why captain healing still is far behind the other healing classes, but not the only one ofc. Really hope to see a healing re-balance sometime aswell for the blue lines on the respective heal classes.

[Geremir]

Boss not reactivating. In case you cannot reset him, just open this ice space so we can carry on in Thikil-Gundu instance. I write some more detailed feedback about the instance if I am capable of seeing the 3rd and 4th boss another time. In general there is to much trash to restart this instance at this time for me!

Anyone capable to help fast with this? Vastin, Tybur, Cordovan?

[Oelle]

Also no resist rating at all on my r13 BA with no DoF buff pots:

Whats the point in resist rating anyway, if all freeps have 20%+ Finesse?

[Fraushgrish2]

Now that RK has been shown some love, it's mini/captain's turn for a dps boost. But I'll wait to see how those changes affect mini/LM dps before renewing my call to up minstrel dps.

Rks did not "receive love", all tactical classes were suffering from this issue (ILI bug). So it was more of a bug fix for tactical classes.

[Oelle]

At some point are you guys going to run a beta release solely to crowdsource dps and hps parses for all the classes, so you can get a good idea which classes are strong and which are weak relative to your vision for how the classes should rank? That seems like a logical step in the balance process.

Even simply telling the players the vision for the classes would help a lot.
If they told us something like "hunters are meant to be the best ST dps class, followed by RK, Champ and burg 5% behind, then other classes with a 10% gap, afterwards cappy, who is 20% behind those", we'd have numbers to argue with.
As long as they only give us traitlines that tell us "choosing this traitline allows you to destroy your foes with strong hits and awesome devastating strikes", that sounds like all classes should be viable for any chosen role. And they simply are not.

[Oelle]

I spoke to the team about the cost of 50 Ironfold Ingots, and that number is accurate, since these are the most common of the ingredients. The expectation is it should take most players about an hour in the Resource Instances to get that amount, which seems reasonable.

So we are supposed to farm an hour for one single piece of purple equipment that will be outdated with the next dot update, when instance chests, quests and barters give us similar stuff directly? So ~20 hours of farming for getting only full purple equipment?
Really? Is there no better stuff than that? Or will getting teal stuff require 10 hours grind per item, then?

I mean... there is nothing wrong with the price, if the item is really awesome.
But looking at Mordor, the first tier of crafted items are replaced within no time. And such items shouldnt require an hour of farming.

[wispsong]

We have heard your feedback on this, and it is not our intention for you to earn tokens and not be able (have the required reputation) to spend them before reaching a cap. For now, the team is going to increase the cap for Marks of the Longbeards to 400.

Again, why is there a cap? I want to be able to save my hard earned currency for the items I might be interested in, not spend it on stuff I don't like/won't use. U23 looks like the update where I might just stop levelling and instead just play through to update 20 on alts.

[Drizzels]

Any update on the release date @cordovan?

I realy hope you take some time over the coming Weekend to fix bugs, issues with pvp, issues with tact li scaling and new t instances being to easy and rather launch it early next week then end of this!

[Fraushgrish2]

So we are supposed to farm an hour for one single piece of purple equipment that will be outdated with the next dot update, when instance chests, quests and barters give us similar stuff directly?
Really?

1 hour ain't that much, you put in 2 hours of work and you'll have all the jewels within 4 days easy peasy

[Oelle]

1 hour ain't that much, you put in 2 hours of work and you'll have all the jewels within 4 days easy peasy

If its BiS for some months, then yes, seems reasonable... but usually, crafting isnt and items get replaced with the next instance run. And in that case, its clearly not worth it.

[Oelle]

Should be one of the reasons why captain healing still is far behind the other healing classes, but not the only one ofc. Really hope to see a healing re-balance sometime aswell for the blue lines on the respective heal classes.

And there is another issue with tactical healing stat on LI/ILI: the healing classes scale completely different with that stat.
Beornings nearly dont get any bonus from tactical healing, runekeepers get roughly 1% per rating, minstrels and cappies get roughly 2% per rating.
This has to be fixed, too, otherwise healers simply cant be balanced and need work whenever those ratings change again.

[Brain9H]

I spoke to the team about the cost of 50 Ironfold Ingots, and that number is accurate,

Assuming an ingot weights 20 lbs, it will take 1.000lb (453kg) of ironfold to craft a single bracelet.

That's probably the heaviest bracelet in the history of video games!

[Seodric]

Might food (Erebor Ham) needs adjusted to give same as agility & will food:

Same thing happened with essences:



Am not a fan of mainstats giving 2 to mastery, the food is pretty much useless, only giving 2,2k-2,7k mastery ish. Barely a drop in the sea for the 300k mastery needed for cap.

Same thing with EVERY item in the game giving mainstat. Relics, food, LI titles, LI 2h passives, essences, and stats from gear. All of which is quite useless if they give Mainstat instead of pure critical rating/morale/mastery etc. PURE mastery stat or PURE critical rating stat outperforms might/agility/will with so much it's insane.

- New Mainstat Essences 755 x 2 = 1510 mastery. Mastery Essence = 9249.

- Fate Essence 755 x 2,5 = 1887,5 Critical rating. Critical Rating Essence = 7147

If it's gonna stay like this, it would make more sense just removing the mainstat essences to be fair, for less confusion. Also the tables for items would need to change abit, since items WITH essence slots will outperform items WITHOUT essence slots with ALOT, since the raw output from essences are THAT MUCH greater.

Edit: There really wasn't anything wrong with the old system, where mainstats gave 8 mastery per 1 mainstat. Dunno what the further plans for mainstats are, but for now, the stats are almost completely useless.

[Fraushgrish2]

Even simply telling the players the vision for the classes would help a lot.

You forget that not everyone wants to run any instances. I know some hard casuals who get a turn on whenever they wear their own crafted gear. Also, you've said countless times that you yourself rarely run T2, so this will probably be BiS for you as well (This crafted item is better then anything you can barter via embers)

[Cordovan]

Any update on the release date @cordovan?

I realy hope you take some time over the coming Weekend to fix bugs, issues with pvp, issues with tact li scaling and new t instances being to easy and rather launch it early next week then end of this!

If assuming by "you" you mean "the people who actually fix bugs and other issues", then yes, we are not releasing Update 23 this week.

[NavarreBlood]

Rks did not "receive love", all tactical classes were suffering from this issue (ILI bug). So it was more of a bug fix for tactical classes.

Whether or not the quote below solely refers to the tactical class update, it sounds like RK is getting special attention.

Regarding Runekeeper dps, it is looking pretty anemic from our point of view, so they'll be looking at a buff shortly to get them back to par.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

I also am finally tweaking the keep boss HP to be different for the two sides, given that the damage output of creeps/freeps is highly asymmetrical.

While you're on this Vastin, take a quick look at the bosses in The Delving of Fror.... their morale pools have scaled so high that creeps will never be able to kill them in a reasonable amount of time....

[Oelle]

Assuming an ingot weights 20 lbs, it will take 1.000lb (453kg) of ironfold to craft a single bracelet.

That's probably the heaviest bracelet in the history of video games!

sounds more like very inefficient way of crafting^^

I remember building igloos as a child. if done properly, one would craft bricks and build with them. What we did instead is making a huge pile, hardening the surface and digging a cave into it... required amount of snow to build the Igloo ~ 50kg.
Used amount of snow to build it ~ 300kg...

[Seodric]

The champion issue was a specific error introduced when we tried to fix the animation hitching issues they were experiencing - it has already been addressed internally and should be back to normal shortly?

-Vastin

My Champ skill tooltips are still bugged. Same with Redline Dualwield being slow. Also if possible, look into the animation DIFFERENCE on Dwarf Champion vs Man/Elf/High-Elf. Dwarf animation on Ferocious Strikes and Brutal Strikes are for sure slower than on Man, High-Elf and Elf.

Same with Flashing Blades for Burglar. Hobbit Burglar animation on Flashing Blades takes almost 0.5seconds longer than Man animation, which results in a quite decent chunk of dps loss for Hobbit Burglar.

[QueenArleth]

PvMP cleanup is the other thing I'm working on at this very moment - making sure most of the creep ratings and such are updated to the same scale as the player values, more or less. I also am finally tweaking the keep boss HP to be different for the two sides, given that the damage output of creeps/freeps is highly asymmetrical.

I am also looking at trying to get some more corruption slots for creeps. Won't be in for U23, but I'm hoping I can get those in soon. There really isn't enough statting flexibility for them.

-Vastin

One thing puzzles me, how exactly are the Delving of Fror bosses (Rottenroot, Grodris Matron of the Wintersebb, and Gaergoth the Unbound) massive morale pools going to be dealt with? At the moment, their HP is reaching astronomical levels and thus making it very long/tedious for a creep raid to kill whereas it is still relatively trivial in kill-time for a freep raid. The Delving boss NPCs are currently at a higher level than the level cap, which is contributing to the massive HP.

[Altair6]

I spoke to the team about the cost of 50 Ironfold Ingots, and that number is accurate, since these are the most common of the ingredients. The expectation is it should take most players about an hour in the Resource Instances to get that amount, which seems reasonable.

Surely the criteria should be "is it fun?" not "is it reasonable?" (for some obscure definition of "reasonable"). By this definition all previous crafting, with the possible exception of Cook/Farmer, has been "unreasonable".

This seems to be something that's been creeping into the game more and more recently, extending simple operations to the level of tedium as a substitute for actual entertainment. It's making me play less and less, tbh.

[Oelle]

You forget that not everyone wants to run any instances. I know some hard casuals who get a turn on whenever they wear their own crafted gear. Also, you've said countless times that you yourself rarely run T2, so this will probably be BiS for you as well (This crafted item is better then anything you can barter via embers)

When Mordor was released, the crafted items were good. next dot upgrade gave us instances and ash-barter guys that made everything that could be crafted obsolete. I just dont want those items to be obsolete AND very expensive.

Plus... I've said countless times that I rarely run T2? really? Cant remember that.
And everything is relative.
I ran roughly 100 times Seregost T2c in Mordor... plus likely more than 500 times T2 on lvl105^^
Throughout all my playtime, I for sure have played more than a thousand instances on T2c (maxlvl) and repeated lots of instances on T2 or T2c (old raids) which were outdated.
does that count as rarely?
What I dont do is raiding current endgame content on T2c. but thats different from not running T2/T2c stuff.

Plus... the plan is to sell instance gear for embers some weeks after instance release. At least, I remember reading that somewhere. So... even if I wouldnt run T2 or T3 instances, I can get the gear quite soon for embers, cant I? Now, is the crafted stuff still worth it for the amount of mats?

[Fraushgrish2]

The champion issue was a specific error introduced when we tried to fix the animation hitching issues they were experiencing - it has already been addressed internally and should be back to normal shortly?

-Vastin

When you say shortly..do you mean everything you've been talking about is about to be put on br today? (Tactical ILI, increase of landscape token cap ect)