What is new in the store, armors?????

[Anyelir]

Don't assume that just because something is offered in the store that the masses will buy it.

The main problem is not that some people might or might not buy this new armour in the Store. The main problem is not the impact these items may or may not have on the in-game economy either.

The main problem is that Turbine is crossing a line with these items and that it seems not impossible (or even unlikely IMO) that they might offer more and better items with stats on them in the Store in the future. If we let these low-level armour pieces pass without a protest, we may see other gear (armour, weapons, jewellery) in the Store in the future, stuff that is actually better than what can be obtained by playing the game and that could evolve into the new standard gear for level-cap characters.

In my opinion, this low-level Store armour is a weed that needs to be pulled out before it start to choke the plants growing around it.

[LadyDena]

I think you are clearly off the mark here.

Said poster spends his time on the forums applauding Turbine for everything and anything. Even when confronted with a Turbine link where it CLEARLY states that we won't ever see armour in the store (not discussing level or its use), the poster refuses to acknowledge that Turbine has a "different" approach of things.

And for people who follow the forums, his/her opinion is clearly biased ALL the time. Is it just coincidence? Stat tomes, super pots, you name it.

Everyone is entitled to hide his/her toons, that's not what the discussion is about. But the fact that said player ALWAYS seems to defend whatever Turbine spoon-feeds him/her could eventually cause extra unnecessary stress for him/her. That's (I believe... correct me if I'm wrong...) the reason of my post above.

And before you ask, the reason I asked if he had max level toons was to make sure he/she realizes what relic removal scrolls are, how useful they are, how "convenient" they are and how much "need" does a player have for them. The same with stat tomes: he/she is so keen to defend them in the store. Hey, they are available in-game! Please...

You have people on these boards who I respect tremendously. Yula is one. There are always those who have nothing to say but negative things. But there are also others who have nothing to say but positive things EVERY single time. Is Turbine such a perfect company? Is the game SOOOOO good, so well developed, so well managed and future-oriented? Please... Criticize is fine if done the right way. You won't get points taken off your grade for doing so...

This post is so full of win. If I can +REP it twice I would.

[Azshakh]

Disappointed, Turbine, very disappointed.

Quality is going downhill, longtime LOTRO players leaving...
Makes me sad after almost 4 years.

[Anyelir]

Wie ich bereits im englischen Thread schrieb: ich habe vollstes Vertrauen in Turbine, dass dieses Horrorszenario nicht eintreten wird.

Das Vertrauen hab ich auch gehabt... bis zu dem Punkt, als sie extra ein neues Loot-Item eingeführt haben, damit sie im Store den passenden Schlüssel verkaufen können. (Wenn die Droprate von Kiste und Schlüssel annähernd gleich wäre, hätte es ja für Turbine kaum einen Grund gegeben, die Kisten überhaupt einzuführen. Da hätten sie auch einfach die Droplisten für die vorhandenen Mobs und Behälter anpassen können, um uns das "Geschenk" der neuen möglichen Drops zu machen...)

[OnyxSoulbane]

The thing is that, some of us hasn't given up hope yet... That we complain about stuff will hopefully change Turbines minds in the end... "hopefully".

So no it's not turning in to Pay to win and it is said it wont be so lets hope so and atleast some of us wont hit the nail in the chest just yet like you are and just becouse of that you shouldn't go around make statments that we are pom pom Jedi's



Well, the game will hopefully evolve and that would mean even stat tomes and this stupid stat-gear in store will too... T7 stat tome is not forever for now.

I am as free to use the term pom pom jedi's as you and other's like you use the terms: troll's/hater's yadda yadda. I am also free to say whatever i wish here, just as you are. If the shoe fit's girly.........


Oh, and BTW, i just got off the phone, and i have ordered a large supply of gift's just for people like you.

Case's of Q-tip's, so when some of those like yourself manage to pull all of your heads out of the sand, you can clean your bloody ears out, also some eyewash so you may also clean your eyes, and no longer stay blind to what's goin' on. You can all thank me later. But i know you wont. Wont be long the lot of you will just skulk away when the truth finally smack's you dead in the face like a 2x4.

You people amaze me. Keep shakin' them pom pom's, and if your a really good girl this year, maybe Turbine will send you a special edition gold plated spoon in honor of your tireless efforts of defending them. That gold plated spoon will allow you to choke down all the spoon fed garbage they will continue to feed you faster than greased weasel!!.

I know your gonna love it!!!

[Sapience]

Please use this thread for your feedback on the new store armor. All other threads will be consolidated into this one. For those asking why these threads have been moved here, it is very simple. You are discussing store items and providing store feedback. This is the store feedback forum.

Also, let's try to keep this civil. Name calling, insults, and similar comments whether directed at other players or Turbine staff are direct violations of the community guidelines. You're free to discuss the issue, but you must abide by the guidelines the same as with any other thread on these forums.

Feedback, comments, and yes even criticisms are welcome, but please do so in an appropriate manner.

[Hecki]

Erm... A moderative mixed german-english thread?
lol oO

Who put the german and english threads together?!

[Hecki]

Das Vertrauen hab ich auch gehabt... bis zu dem Punkt, als sie extra ein neues Loot-Item eingeführt haben, damit sie im Store den passenden Schlüssel verkaufen können. (Wenn die Droprate von Kiste und Schlüssel annähernd gleich wäre, hätte es ja für Turbine kaum einen Grund gegeben, die Kisten überhaupt einzuführen. Da hätten sie auch einfach die Droplisten für die vorhandenen Mobs und Behälter anpassen können, um uns das "Geschenk" der neuen möglichen Drops zu machen...)

Das Problem ist: Du weißt nicht, was in so einer Kiste drin ist.
Du kannst Glück haben und du kannst Pech haben.

[Brinswith]

so by now merging multiple threads, not to mention different language threads you have made a coherant and valid feedback thread into a jumbled mess that people will struggle to be able to read and follow.... well done Turbine well done.

[Amphoras]

Please use this thread for your feedback on the new store armor. All other threads will be consolidated into this one. For those asking why these threads have been moved here, it is very simple. You are discussing store items and providing store feedback. This is the store feedback forum.

Also, let's try to keep this civil. Name calling, insults, and similar comments whether directed at other players or Turbine staff are direct violations of the community guidelines. You're free to discuss the issue, but you must abide by the guidelines the same as with any other thread on these forums.

Feedback, comments, and yes even criticisms are welcome, but please do so in an appropriate manner.

I can understand merging the other English threads in here, but why are are you merging threads in other languages here as well? There seems to be at least one German thread that has been merged into this one. What is the point in that when half the people won't be able to understand what the posts are saying? (both English speaking people reading German posts and German speaking people reading English posts, though I'm sure the German speaking people will understand more).

[WickedWitch99]

Ok, here goes.



Merging 2 languages is a first here, I think.

A mistake? Oversight? Derailing and confusing it is for sure.

[Aethniniel]

No, it already is pay to win. If you go back and listen to the seminar that Fernando Paiz gave at one of the gaming conventions last year on the FTP model you'll see this has been in the cards all along. He even goes so far as to explain that companies who use microtransactions can push players well past their comfortable limits, really anger them and they still won't leave. He doesn't seem to understand that sure, you will still make money, but you lose the trust and respect of the fanbase in the process. But I guess Turbine doesn't care about making a good game anymore - its about milking the players for all they can, even if they are skewing the odds to favor people who use the store (pvp especially is being affected by this.)

[GV-Tanith]

Please use this thread for your feedback on the new store armor. All other threads will be consolidated into this one. For those asking why these threads have been moved here, it is very simple. You are discussing store items and providing store feedback. This is the store feedback forum.

I've a question of my own, Sapience, since we dragged you into the forums on a Saturday...

When this news first broke yesterday (I heard the yelling and screaming all the way over on the Diablo III forums), you said that one reason for this is because some feedback indicated there was a lack of crafted armor in the AH.

Wouldn't it have been a better move to offer some sort of incentive to crafters in the store? Ingredient packs, crit items, or so on? I believe someone suggested this very thing in this thread or another on the same subject. Crafting would pick up, crafted armors would appear in the AH, the LOTRO economy would benefit. What am I missing here?

[OnyxSoulbane]

so by now merging multiple threads, not to mention different language threads you have made a coherant and valid feedback thread into a jumbled mess that people will struggle to be able to read and follow.... well done Turbine well done.

Yes. Amazing this. While my parent's, mother being 1/2 apache/german and my father being full blooded german, i cannot speak either of those language's.

I guess this is a sign there will soon be german to english book's available in the store.


How thoughtfull Turbine!

[Hecki]

I can understand merging the other English threads in here, but why are are you merging threads in other languages here as well? There seems to be at least one German thread that has been merged into this one. What is the point in that when half the people won't be able to understand what the posts are saying? (both English speaking people reading German posts and German speaking people reading English posts, though I'm sure the German speaking people will understand more).

We have to reden in denglisch, damit all community leute us understanden.
All was we schreiben, must in beiden Languages integreted werden.
So, wenn you not verstehst anything, then you know wie I me feel.

o.O

I liebe this Moderation. It führt us near together.
Hellau, to the Amerikanischer Dream

offtopic ende.

/facepalm

[LadyDena]

Agree but want to add :

I hate this expression because it is based on assumptions and extrapolations that at some 'inevitable' point along the line, the 'worst case scenario' becomes true.

You mean things like Steelbound Ripoff Lootboxes?

This 'thin edge' in this case is the selling of low level gear with the intent of selling high level gear later on.

OF COURSE it will happen. Introducing these at low level is simple psychology. You don't train a horse to jump a five foot high fence all at once. You start with a one footer, then increase it to two, then three.


Folks, now we know why things were slow and many problems were ignored or left unfixed for so long. THIS is where our developement resource went. And to those who thing the store doesn't hurt anyone, hope you are reading this thread.

[SabrielofLorien]

When did they say that?

I can see how people don't want rep items in the store even if they aren't combat enhancer but to be honest in the end a horse is a cosmetic item. That is what the store should be about. Would be nice if they could still have rep-exclusive cosmetics but alas the only thing they promised is "convenience, not advantage". Even faster horses would be fine.

It was said in Beta Forums. So, the general population never saw the entire humungous thread. At that time a Horse was a Badge of Honor and Rite of Passage. You have to be L20 to get one. EVERYONE at level 20 went to Hengstacers to get the horse race and the horse. It meant SOMETHING to be on your first horse.

When they put it in the store for L5 (and 95TP for the riding skill) that all changed.

The first horses that were to be offered in the Store were all the Reputation Horses - the ones you have to get to kindred with a faction to earn. These were offered up on the Beta Store. At the end, they said OK no Rep Horses and we wont be doing horses it was just a test (and of course I dont have that log or post).

Later as I recall they said cosmetic mounts only. Like the festival horses. Now we have better than Reputation Horses - Steed of the Hunter / Guardian etc.

[WickedWitch99]

I've a question of my own, Sapience, since we dragged you into the forums on a Saturday...

When this news first broke yesterday (I heard the yelling and screaming all the way over on the Diablo III forums), you said that one reason for this is because some feedback indicated there was a lack of crafted armor in the AH.

Wouldn't it have been a better move to offer some sort of incentive to crafters in the store? Ingredient packs, crit items, or so on? I believe someone suggested this very thing in this thread or another on the same subject. Crafting would pick up, crafted armors would appear in the AH, the LOTRO economy would benefit. What am I missing here?

It's only a better move when it benefits an economy in the real world....



A deal is only a good deal when all parties involved agree that it's a good deal.
If it's only a good deal for one party and that party tries to convince the other party that it's really ok. Is that ok? When that other party feels that slippery slope is becoming more slippery and steeper?

Today I won't be playing ostrich in game. This ostrich slipped and needs time to recover.

And seriously, nothing that is changed in game or on the forums is accidental.

[Amphoras]

We have to reden in denglisch, damit all community leute us understanden.
All was we schreiben, must in beiden Languages integreted werden.
So, wenn you not verstehst anything, then you know wie I me feel.

o.O

I liebe this Moderation. It führt us near together.
Hellau, to the Amerikanischer Dream

offtopic ende.

/facepalm

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

[OnyxSoulbane]

It's only a better move when it benefits an economy in the real world....


Today I won't be playing ostrich in game. This ostrich slipped and needs some time to regroup.

Good thing that, as i broke out some saddle's and got my biscuit's and gravy eatin' britche's on today. I intend to ride me some ostrich's, and i kinda like you, and wouldnt really want to do that to ya

[SHADOW83]

Please use this thread for your feedback on the new store armor. All other threads will be consolidated into this one. For those asking why these threads have been moved here, it is very simple. You are discussing store items and providing store feedback. This is the store feedback forum.

Also, let's try to keep this civil. Name calling, insults, and similar comments whether directed at other players or Turbine staff are direct violations of the community guidelines. You're free to discuss the issue, but you must abide by the guidelines the same as with any other thread on these forums.

Feedback, comments, and yes even criticisms are welcome, but please do so in an appropriate manner.

I think Sapinece should get the /facepalm award for the day.You merged not only multiple threads but ones that were in different languages?Yeah that was extremely logical.Also how can you say that criticism is welcome when 90% of all threads that had something negative to say about turine have been closed.Even ones that hadnt broken down to name calling but were very well thought out and written quite well.

[LadyDena]

Feedback, comments, and yes even criticisms are welcome, but please do so in an appropriate manner.

Thanks for merging several threads, even with multiple languages, into one giant MESS of a topic. What was organized and coherent before, now is a jumbled wreck and not by actions of any posters.

[Hurin]

Originally posted in the stat tomes thread. But since we're seeing the same three worn out/tired/myopic rationalizations for this latest plunge down the slippery slope, I might as well post it here too since it applies pretty well with only minor adjustments. . .

Edited slightly to be less stat tome-specific and to lessen the emphasis on store exclusivity. . . because the stat armour crosses a whole other line and sets an entirely different (though equally bad) precedent that we can all be sure will be cited to legitimize even more egregious transgressions in the future. . .

-------------------------------------------

The "First Principle"
First, I need to create a bit of "short-hand." To my mind, the "first principle" at play here has always been that advancing your character and gaining stats/skills/ability/resilience/power should be obtained through playing the game. But, if Turbine's bottom line requires that this principle be violated and that they sell such things (in addition to all the profitable fluff/cosmetics) the nature of the game as a game should at least require them to make those same character enhancements available through gameplay.

As long as they're not required to complete content, they don't cross a line.
This is an argument of convenience for those who only play the game in a certain way. It's fine that they aren't affected personally. More power to them (for TP of course!). But it willfully misses the point. A game where advancement is earned not through playing the game but by laying down cash is no longer a game in the eyes of a great many people. Nobody can seriously say that the stat tomes --especially as store exclusives aren't a violation of that principle. So they invent this arbitrary gauge by which they measure how badly the principle is being violated for their own personal use, and then apply that standard across the board to everyone. But, alas, the fact remains that the principle is being violated.

It reminds me of that old story about Churchill. At a fancy meal he playfully asks the lady seated next to him: "My dear lady, would you sleep with me for one million pounds?" The lady gives it some thought and then replies: "Well, sir, I believe I would." So Churchill then says: "My dear lady, would you sleep with me for one hundred pounds?" The lady, aghast, replies: "Mr. Prime Minister! Do you think me a prostitute!?!" And Churchill replies: "We have already established that you are, my dear lady. Now we are merely haggling over price."

Once you say: "Yes, they are selling advancement in the store, but it's not required, so it's okay". . . you've already conceded violation of the first principle. Now you're just establishing your own personal threshold for how far you're willing to have first principles violated.

And, of course, via reductio ad absurdum, we could argue that Turbine could add "Swords of Instant Death to Anything in the Game" exclusively to the store and as long as they still allowed us to complete content without it, by the logic of those making the counter-argument above, such a store exclusive would be just fine. But, of course, it wouldn't be.

Since this is a PvE game, they don't cross a line. I don't care what other characters have.
This also willfully misses the point. No, we don't compete with each other directly in that we aren't beating each other up in the game with the items/stats/enhancement we buy in the store. But, of course, this argument only suits those of a certain playstyle and ignores the playstyle of others who take the "first principle" seriously. In other words: People that play a game in order to maximize their characters' potential wish to do so through playing the game (while still spending plenty on fluff/cosmetics/convenience). It's fine that not everyone plays the game like that, but that doesn't render the violation of the "first principle" any less egregious. It just renders certain people apathetic to the violation of the principle.

Turbine needs to make money or we'll never make it to Mordor! So, I'm okay with this.
Yes, Turbine needs to make money. And, by all accounts, the store model has been very successful. Which is great! I like Turbine and I like this game. But people are setting up a false choice here when they say that violating the "first principle" is necessary for Turbine to make money. First, it's highly doubtful that the Store Model stops making substantial amounts of money when you take any one "violating" item out of it. Obviously, they still makes tremendous amounts of money on all the things they sell: Fluff and convenience.

Turbine (and every other business operating under this model) are on record as saying that their goal with the F2P model is to "push the envelope" regarding what they can sell and what they can't. The fact that there is even an "envelope" to "push" establishes that there is a "first principle" to be taken into account. . . otherwise, heck, they could just sell level 75 toons outright, the raid armour sets, and even "swords of instant boss death" exclusively in the store.

In essence, Turbine knows that violating that principle to some degree, a little bit at a time, will bring them increased profits above what they could make while strictly adhering to it. The degree to which they can and will violate that principle, and the pace at which they do so, is entirely dependent on where its playerbase "draws the line" and where even those who would normally make excuses for them and rationalize prior violations sit up and take notice.

[SHADOW83]

Thanks for merging several threads, even with multiple languages, into one giant MESS of a topic. What was organized and coherent before, now is a jumbled wreck and not by actions of any posters.

LOL,inside of an hour this thread will be closed because it has become to unorganized and jumbled.

[Anyelir]

So by now a minimum of four separate threads have been combined into one huge topic featuring almost 30 page of text, more than 350 individual posts and at this point two different languages. The whole thing becomes very confusing and inconvenient to read, doesn't it?

Merging all those threads instead of putting them into the Store Feedback section as separate threads has created something they may very well scare off people who'll take a look at it, realize it's a giant mess and leave as quickly as possible instead of posting their opinion like they may have been planning to do...

I won't say this is the intention behind merging everything together this haphazardously, but on the other hand that explanation does not sound alltogether unbelievable.

Putting together this very special thread-merging policy and the fact that we still have only vague information on how the Store armour actually compares to in-game armour, this smells of somebody trying to hide something behind a wall of confusion and uncertainty... *wrinkles her nose in disgust*