Next week's burg changes

[Frisco]

Giving Provoke a 33% cooldown nerf seems like a poor way to implement a nerf. I realize changing cooldowns is probably an easy thing to do, but it really messes with the flow of combat when you're having to change skill rotations every minor update. Same with RKs and CA. Can't we just do a little extra work up front and get the same effect by lowering skill damage and effects?

[rshetty1]

+ this. It's really frustrating how they mess with rotations rather than just addressing core issues. The awesome thing about this upcoming nerf is that burgs will now have no reason to be taken for any role except support when you can take a hunter, red champ or red wardens instead. Also, the RW nerf is perfect for groups struggling to beat silly DPS race mechanics like Boss 2 in Remmorchant.

[dwarfThar]

I can get behind the Knives Out change. Survivability on a red Burg is too high for sure and deserves a nerf.

The other changes however are poorly thought out in my opinion. If Provoke's buff is a problem - nerf the buff! This trend to mess with skill cooldowns and alter the classes playstyle as a result is awful.
The Reveal Weakness nerf also seems like a bandaid fix to Red DPS and utility. I just don't understand why you implement a change like this that also severely impacts yellow line. Yellow was perfectly fine in terms of balance and gets hit hard by that change. A fully maxed out Reveal Weakness for 6 or 7%? Lol. What's next? Nerfing cappy mark and several LM skills? Because if +11.5/13.5% incoming damage is "simply too powerful in raids" you have A LOT of skills and effects to go through and hit them with the nerf bat.

[Hunt3r0fth3m4rk]

I'm starting to think they don't actually know how to change the way skills work, like it is out of their depth as game developers, so they just lazily slap on these blanket changes so they seem like they are addressing issues, when they are not. Look at beorns... why rework some traits, add a skill or 2, and alter some passives when u can just allow all of them to wear heavy armor, ruin itemization for every bear in the game, and call it a day.

Gonna really enjoy my awkward rotation now that Provoke is 2 seconds longer of a cd, but the core of the ability remains the same.

[Chris91]

+ this. It's really frustrating how they mess with rotations rather than just addressing core issues. The awesome thing about this upcoming nerf is that burgs will now have no reason to be taken for any role except support when you can take a hunter, red champ or red wardens instead. Also, the RW nerf is perfect for groups struggling to beat silly DPS race mechanics like Boss 2 in Remmorchant.

What..?

I mean, I get that the rotation might be awkward but in longer sustained single target fights Champs, Burglars and Wardens are about equal (in shorter burst scenarios or when target swapping Warden falls behind)
In addition to that Burglar has significantly more surviveability than either of those 2 classes and the highest damage on 2-3 targets.

Burglars will not have trouble getting a dps spot in raids

[rshetty1]

What..?

I mean, I get that the rotation might be awkward but in longer sustained single target fights Champs, Burglars and Wardens are about equal (in shorter burst scenarios or when target swapping Warden falls behind)
In addition to that Burglar has significantly more surviveability than either of those 2 classes and the highest damage on 2-3 targets.

Burglars will not have trouble getting a dps spot in raids

Wardens = equal DPS but can maintain dot uptime on different boss mechanics that require time to move in and out (how many endgame instances have multiple targets to dps on boss fights?)

Well-played champs = higher DPS than burgs post-nerf

Well-played hunters = slightly lower DPS, but ranged and can manage more uptime

My point is that burgs needed a utility nerf, not a DPS nerf. The class was never over-clocking DPS in raids and being stacked like RK's were.

[Zohal]

Wardens = equal DPS but can maintain dot uptime on different boss mechanics that require time to move in and out (how many endgame instances have multiple targets to dps on boss fights?)

Do you think those DoTs magically appear on the boss?
There are a large number of DoTs being refreshed in a rotation. If you move away for a few seconds you can either leave a gap between the end and refresh of all of the DoTs or skip refreshing a few.

[rshetty1]

Do you think those DoTs magically appear on the boss?
There are a large number of DoTs being refreshed in a rotation. If you move away for a few seconds you can either leave a gap between the end and refresh of all of the DoTs or skip refreshing a few.

That is fair. I think my general point is that burgs do not need a DPS nerf. You can decrease the survivability of red-line, but the current DPS output is in-line with other well-played DPS classes. I have seen wardens, champs and hunters all output 300k+ in Remmo, RK's seem to be the laggard at the moment. Why change the DPS when the issue is the utility? I don't want to play some half-baked red line burg that has some utility and some dps, there is no room for middle grounds in the current raid designs.

[Soragrim]

That is fair. I think my general point is that burgs do not need a DPS nerf. You can decrease the survivability of red-line, but the current DPS output is in-line with other well-played DPS classes. I have seen wardens, champs and hunters all output 300k+ in Remmo, RK's seem to be the laggard at the moment. Why change the DPS when the issue is the utility? I don't want to play some half-baked red line burg that has some utility and some dps, there is no room for middle grounds in the current raid designs.

Provoke's cd change will be a slight nerf to red/yellow burg's dps which is fine since they are overperforming compared to other dps classes. The nerf to reveal weakness however I do not understand.

[Rialtan]

Dont start ripping off your tshirts. It's mostly a survivability nerf (which was 100% legit) and the provoke CD nerf wont make you not viable and wont lower your dps to the ground.

On the other hand, the reveal weakness nerf is really something i dont understand tho

[Frisco]

Provoke's cd change will be a slight nerf to red/yellow burg's dps which is fine since they are overperforming compared to other dps classes. The nerf to reveal weakness however I do not understand.

Dont start ripping off your tshirts. It's mostly a survivability nerf (which was 100% legit) and the provoke CD nerf wont make you not viable and wont lower your dps to the ground.

On the other hand, the reveal weakness nerf is really something i dont understand tho

If you read my post, I'm not saying that a nerf isn't acceptable or warranted. I'm objecting to their constant reliance on changing skill cooldowns instead of changing the skills themselves. If survivability is the issue, nerf the value to 30% damage reduction. If damage is the issue, lower the damage.

Messing with skill cooldowns is lazy and annoying. This one especially, since the ideal time to use Provoke was prior to Flashing Blades because they had similar cooldowns.

[MerryTheOne]

Reaveal weeknes is most nerfed skill in history.... if you remember in past u can stack it, then stack it to 3 times, then nerfed from 20..something % to 13%... And now...

Burglar in first way is support and utility class, and max buff to incoming dmg compared to not support class start to look funny... Compare this mere 10% to for example beorning buff, compare it to even champ dev strike buff.

...and on the other way to achive 10% inv dmg on champ u need almost nothing, then to make you burg to give 10% you had to invest over 40 empowerments in Li.

[Elmagor]

May be they want to sure what no one can beat Remmorchant T4-T5, LM debuffs must be nerfed next, LOL

[Rialtan]

If you read my post, I'm not saying that a nerf isn't acceptable or warranted. I'm objecting to their constant reliance on changing skill cooldowns instead of changing the skills themselves. If survivability is the issue, nerf the value to 30% damage reduction. If damage is the issue, lower the damage.

Messing with skill cooldowns is lazy and annoying. This one especially, since the ideal time to use Provoke was prior to Flashing Blades because they had similar cooldowns.

My main is Rk, so i do agree on that

[GeorgeBaggy]

Well this has always been the game's main problem. The world design and writing are great, but the people developing the core game systems have never had a clue what they are doing. This nerf is 100% going to be reverted in some way once they realize what we've known all along, which is that it's completely ########.

Wow, the word r etarded is censored now? Is special snowflake culture just taking over everything?

[Elmagor]

Well this has always been the game's main problem. The world design and writing are great, but the people developing the core game systems have never had a clue what they are doing. This nerf is 100% going to be reverted in some way once they realize what we've known all along, which is that it's completely ########.

Wow, the word r etarded is censored now? Is special snowflake culture just taking over everything?

They have GREAT developers who create quests/lore (MoL) and who create landscape (Scenario). But Vastin who working on so-called "class balance"... a lot of players hate his work

[draunglein]

Please, developers, take a look at our wantings, we would gladly accept nerfs, with NO cooldown-change, please, return it back, 2 seconds just swept off my life..

[draunglein]

Giving Provoke a 33% cooldown nerf seems like a poor way to implement a nerf. I realize changing cooldowns is probably an easy thing to do, but it really messes with the flow of combat when you're having to change skill rotations every minor update. Same with RKs and CA. Can't we just do a little extra work up front and get the same effect by lowering skill damage and effects?

Please, please, return it back, i dont need +2 second cooldown, i want to be swift, it makes me slower, i don't understand this changing, you could better change the dps, please reduce dps at least, not the cooldown increase, please return it back

[draunglein]

I can get behind the Knives Out change. Survivability on a red Burg is too high for sure and deserves a nerf.

The other changes however are poorly thought out in my opinion. If Provoke's buff is a problem - nerf the buff! This trend to mess with skill cooldowns and alter the classes playstyle as a result is awful.
The Reveal Weakness nerf also seems like a bandaid fix to Red DPS and utility. I just don't understand why you implement a change like this that also severely impacts yellow line. Yellow was perfectly fine in terms of balance and gets hit hard by that change. A fully maxed out Reveal Weakness for 6 or 7%? Lol. What's next? Nerfing cappy mark and several LM skills? Because if +11.5/13.5% incoming damage is "simply too powerful in raids" you have A LOT of skills and effects to go through and hit them with the nerf bat.

Agree with ya' wise one, i would like to get it back! I am being slow now, the only thing i love in burglars is swiftness and short cooldowns, why they increased provoke almost the main skill's cooldown ((((((((( i don't know what to do now..........

[Miles_Ancestor]

The nerf to reveal weakness however I do not understand.

I suspect that a number of the strange changes made recently have been done with Tournament of the Twins in mind... Reveal Weakness nerf being one of them.

[Elmagor]

I suspect that a number of the strange changes made recently have been done with Tournament of the Twins in mind... Reveal Weakness nerf being one of them.

Nope, people never complain about burg debuffs in PvP, they complain only about amount of damage from stealth, and they don't change it.

[Casmond]

Ooof...Burg getting nerfed again. Wound effect of Enraged / Clever Retort getting "re-balanced." Also, it's getting renamed to something like Malicious Wound.

[groucho42]

The awesome thing about this upcoming nerf is that burgs will now have no reason to be taken for any role except support when you can take a hunter, red champ or red wardens instead.

What's wrong with that? The main problem that the creation of trait trees caused is that everyone believes their class should be the best dps class. For years, burgs have been overpowered. In the early days, we needed support classes, and I loved playing my burg in DN and in others for CC and debuffs.

The only thing I'd add is to say that SSG needs to change their mindset if they're bringing back support classes. Instances have become a pure dps race with every class setting up stats to focus on mits or mastery, and that's it. They need to rethink instances to make sure that support classes are critical to success.

[Instand]

Burglar is very strong and useful class now. Better than hunter, for example. On dummy he's second dps class (190-200k unbuffed). Nerf provoke changed almost nothing.
Main burglar's problem now (my opinion) - great dependence on positional damage. Most of bosses turn around always. It's annoying. I would like some of the positional damage to be converted to additional skill damage.