Blue Warden at level 140

[Krindel]

Hello fellow tanking wardens. I am curious, what is your experience with blue warden at level 140 so far, mainly in instances on higher tier, and what do you like to have improved before new 6man/raid will be released.
Did someone else experienced bug with Shield Tactics stun immunity? It happened to me yesterday at least 5 times during Troll fight and Pughlak (hypnotoad) fight in new 3-man instances. If I use Shield Tactics and get stuned right after that, I will be left stuned with 10s stun immunity buff running down, with 20s antistun cooldown following. Stun lock in new instances is realy annoying, which is absolute killer in combination with current server lag. I am also missing some kind of panic skill and group protection skill for the moments, when healer have to heal everyone or when I finaly get out of stun lock, without self heals and buffs.
What do you think about loot in new instances and about purple crafted gear?

[Eadondryt]

Hello fellow tanking wardens. I am curious, what is your experience with blue warden at level 140 so far, mainly in instances on higher tier, and what do you like to have improved before new 6man/raid will be released.
Did someone else experienced bug with Shield Tactics stun immunity? It happened to me yesterday at least 5 times during Troll fight and Pughlak (hypnotoad) fight in new 3-man instances. If I use Shield Tactics and get stuned right after that, I will be left stuned with 10s stun immunity buff running down, with 20s antistun cooldown following. Stun lock in new instances is realy annoying, which is absolute killer in combination with current server lag. I am also missing some kind of panic skill and group protection skill for the moments, when healer have to heal everyone or when I finaly get out of stun lock, without self heals and buffs.
What do you think about loot in new instances and about purple crafted gear?

Blue wardens lost 5% mits from the remmo bonus. So we are taking more damage now. Self healing is still way behind the other tanks. Cappys are putting out about 75k HPS and can self heal the current three mans.

Warden by contrast put out about 25k HPS in a usual rotation, including morale taps from the adds and some never surrender procs.
So this area could definitely do with some improvement, given the morale pools on tanks are around 1.4-1.5 million when buffed.

If our base self healing was roughly doubled, wardens would be in a better place.
At the moment the three man instance at T3 doable, but a healer is definitely needed, compared to a cappy who can keep himself and his group up.

It’s a step in the right direction, but not far enough.

[bohbashum]

Not 140 yet. I'm here to talk as outside and captain tank.

I've had quite a few competant warden tanks run T3s & SS/LT t2 runs very well. They can absolutely do all content at the moment.

Self healing is still way behind the other tanks. Cappys are putting out about 75k HPS and can self heal the current three mans.

Compared to the 2 main tanks in-game I would say warden is still a long way behind. Won't go into detail but now getting captain to 140 the differences are night and day.

[Pavlin]

Did someone else experienced bug with Shield Tactics stun immunity? It happened to me yesterday at least 5 times during Troll fight and Pughlak (hypnotoad) fight in new 3-man instances. If I use Shield Tactics and get stuned right after that, I will be left stuned with 10s stun immunity buff running down, with 20s antistun cooldown following.

Isnt a bug. Its a bad skill design. Was always like this. Stun immunity doesnt apply right after you execute the gamit. It need 1/2 sec to apply the immnity.
Wes will be like before. Cappable of 3 and 6 man, but stil way behind other tanks / any of them /including blue champ.
You like it? You play it.
Forgeth about tank spot in raid / even pugs will ignore you/ and thats for t1.

[Gladdis]

I wish they can fix Wardens so they can main tank again. ::sigh::

[Krindel]

Isnt a bug. Its a bad skill design. Was always like this. Stun immunity doesnt apply right after you execute the gamit. It need 1/2 sec to apply the immnity.
Wes will be like before. Cappable of 3 and 6 man, but stil way behind other tanks / any of them /including blue champ.
You like it? You play it.
Forgeth about tank spot in raid / even pugs will ignore you/ and thats for t1.

I may be wrong, but I thought at level 130 stun immunity did not trigger, when I got stuned in the moment Shield Tactics was executed. So previously antistun effect at least did not get to 20s cooldown. But in instances at level 130 stun wasn't big issue, so who knows?

Other issue, which will be obvious in near future, when we will have access to better gear, is that we will get quickly over the physical and tactical mitigaton rating caps with only gear, which will diminish one of our only advantages over other tank classes - massive mitigation rating buffs. I am already 300k tmit rating over the t3 mitigation cap with quest/instance gear and active buffs. Also For the Free Peoples fellowship mitigation rating buff will be useless even more than now.

Why our aoe force taunt is not affected by tracery Area Effect Target Count?

I am capable of tanking new 3man instances on tier 3, it is doable, but not fun at all with all that stun/daze every few seconds and server lags. I am curious how good will be warden in new 6man and 3mans on higher tiers.
I am not even dreaming about raid tanking, blue warden usualy does not fit well into raid class setup, mainly due to lack of utility and survival skills.

[Nicname]

Blue warden is in a kinda weird state. Since LI revamp blue warden got a huge QoL improvement since mastery CDs got decreased which makes up for smoother rotations (only speaking for blue line, i'd even say it's a QoL downturn for yellow and especially red Line (not bc 7s mastery CD was "good" or balanced, but because 11.7/12s CD doesnt match up with any meaningful rotation that doesn't rely on yLine Seize the Moment procc, even 16s Mastery CD would be more reasonable, but thats another topic))

Also it seems BPE system seems to be kinda viable again. But we lost 5% Mitigation from Never Surrender plus 2% from FoKD set Bonus which is 25% more inc damage compared to 130 tanking. recently i found myself in the spot to tank Stairs T3 with a friended kin thats a known raiding kin on my server. With all buffs up (i track every one of them), capped mits and BPA + celebration of skill, also pulling adroit maneuvre for -20% induction for healers, it took me TWO (!) healers to survive Azbauz and Maugrush (one blue mini + RK, also LM spamming Water Lore).

rn we take immense spike dmg that just bypasses our Never Surrender (not only stairs, Dhurstrok as well), have (still) no Panic Button (frankly speaking our only Panic Button in years has been skirmishing clickies (like what the actual...?!)), can't properly heal ourselves (still only about 25-30k HPS in a viable tank rotation compared to 1.4m morale pools lol) and losing the one and only advancement to other tanks: Being able to ridiculously stack vitality essences since we can easily cap our defensive stats.

I think blue warden's in an even worse situation than on 130, it's a bit more fun since Mastery Cooldowns contribute to smoother rotations, also BPE works, but that's not even close to make up for the disadvantages.

[Osglinthor]

Blue warden is in a kinda weird state. Since LI revamp blue warden got a huge QoL improvement since mastery CDs got decreased which makes up for smoother rotations (only speaking for blue line, i'd even say it's a QoL downturn for yellow and especially red Line (not bc 7s mastery CD was "good" or balanced, but because 11.7/12s CD doesnt match up with any meaningful rotation that doesn't rely on yLine Seize the Moment procc, even 16s Mastery CD would be more reasonable, but thats another topic))

In no world would 16 sec masteries CD be more reasonable even if it were to align with gambit usage. 11.7/12 is prety bad since you come into situations more offten where its better to wait slighlty for masteries CD than do anything else wich is ######## gameplay. Right thing to do is to lower it, with animation reduciton accross the board since all 3 lines(tho yellow is carried with STM procs) need rotation squish. Its very difficult to balance both tanking and DPS with such long rotations. And it would open up room for situational gambits similar to shiled tactics(wich use right now is very bad). Now this all would require quite a lot of work and would probably trigger some warden players who enjoy very slow/long rotations for whatever reason even if its unhealthy for the game. So only other options are % buffs here and there.

[bohbashum]

Also it seems BPE system seems to be kinda viable again. But we lost 5% Mitigation from Never Surrender plus 2% from FoKD set Bonus which is 25% more inc damage compared to 130 tanking.

There is a fun case to be made here.

mid gear captains and guardians are struggling to hit the tier3 penetration stat caps of tactical and physical mitigations.

Warden is the only tank capping both mitigations and even some avoidence during combat. They're able to itemise into different things.

This feels like a calm before the storm however. Warden doesn't have damage reduction elements in his kit anywhere close to captain and guardian. When everyone is hitting caps again it'll quickly realise the -~20% inc damage innate on other classes beats the avoidence of warden.


It was a tough pill for me to swollow, I do love warden, but even assuming we're good tanks... We don't bring much else... Captain and Guardian can protect allies. Then cappy is stacking heals, a rez, damage mits, power, and "Panic buttons" for fellowship members.

Lets not beat around the bush. Warden tank needs to be in a hell of a lot better place when you actually start comparing what they bring to the table.

[Nicname]

In no world would 16 sec masteries CD be more reasonable even if it were to align with gambit usage. 11.7/12 is prety bad since you come into situations more offten where its better to wait slighlty for masteries CD than do anything else wich is ######## gameplay.

Yeah, that's why I said it, masteries work as your rotations "internal clock". Since ideal Rotation is roughly about 30s a 10s Cooldown was fine (every mastery ~3x per rotation) and 15s was okayish (~2x per rotation), with having 11.7s/12s Cooldown you'll either end up having a rotation far too long (35-36s) or too short (23-24s), at least when playing a linear rotation which is really problematic in red line. But again, that's a whole new topic, just wanted to make the point why it's useful in blue line whereas it's #### in damage specs. so yeah, i'm absolutely your opinion CD should be shortened, probably by traitline deep into red -2s (?)

This feels like a calm before the storm however. Warden doesn't have damage reduction elements in his kit anywhere close to captain and guardian. When everyone is hitting caps again it'll quickly realise the -~20% inc damage innate on other classes beats the avoidence of warden.

I think this one's pretty accurate.

[Kander]

There is a fun case to be made here.

mid gear captains and guardians are struggling to hit the tier3 penetration stat caps of tactical and physical mitigations.

Warden is the only tank capping both mitigations and even some avoidence during combat. They're able to itemise into different things.

This feels like a calm before the storm however. Warden doesn't have damage reduction elements in his kit anywhere close to captain and guardian. When everyone is hitting caps again it'll quickly realise the -~20% inc damage innate on other classes beats the avoidence of warden.


It was a tough pill for me to swollow, I do love warden, but even assuming we're good tanks... We don't bring much else... Captain and Guardian can protect allies. Then cappy is stacking heals, a rez, damage mits, power, and "Panic buttons" for fellowship members.

Lets not beat around the bush. Warden tank needs to be in a hell of a lot better place when you actually start comparing what they bring to the table.

Only advantage wardens have atm is they can cap mits because of a huge rating buffs, after all tanks can do it with better gear without sacrificing ridiculous amounts of morale, then wardens would be totally useless again. Same happened in minas morgul release. Wardens were alright tanks when 3 man were released, and then when 6 man released, some new gear appeared and suddenly wardens were useless compared to any other tank.

[Pavlin]

Only advantage wardens have atm is they can cap mits because of a huge rating buffs, after all tanks can do it with better gear without sacrificing ridiculous amounts of morale

Mmm, how you sacrafice morale ?

[Krindel]

We have to look for items with different stats, avoid gear with mitigations, which is usualy good for other tanks, we need Incomming healing, Parry rating and Resistance, it is the only way, how to postpone issue with massive overcaped mitigations as long as we can. Other stats like Critical Defence, Outgoing Healing and Fate are bad.