T3+ Hithrengor is broken

[GeorgeBaggy]

Is it beatable? Yes, technically. Doesn't mean that it's also not broken.

The main issue is that on the second phase, Hithrengor's Judgement and purple eyes are not properly telegraphed, necessitating the use of 3rd-party plugins (Gibberish or Prime) to track when he is going to use them. A boss fight should never REQUIRE the use of plugins to be beatable!

But that's not even the worst problem. Additionally, Gibberish's timer for the eyes will desync with the boss's timer for casting it more often than not since the extremely long channel of Judgement can delay the casting of the purple eyes that would have otherwise occurred during the channel. This makes the timing impossible to predict for casting debuffs such as champ taunt, LM power drain, and piercing roar in order to soften the damage from the eyes.

I would recommend making both Judgement and the purple eyes into grey induction skills, or simply nerfing their damage if that's too much work.

[ReneKiller1]

But that's not even the worst problem. Additionally, Gibberish's timer for the eyes will desync with the boss's timer for casting it more often than not since the extremely long channel of Judgement can delay the casting of the purple eyes that would have otherwise occurred during the channel. This makes the timing impossible to predict for casting debuffs such as champ taunt, LM power drain, and piercing roar in order to soften the damage from the eyes.

Not really sure what the problem here is. If the purple eye timer runs out during Judgement, the eyes will come directly after Judgement. When turning on enemy inductions you know exactly when Judgement ends so you know when to put your debuffs on him.

[Lhimlight]

there is some issues with the final boss, yes they are on timers but sometimes you can drop unlucky and getting eyes drop while judgment is happening, while your characters are bouncing all over the place eyes are getting dropped where you dont want them or people can drop them at the same time.

[zipfile]

Not sure how this stands out amongst any other boss fight we've had....everything has always worked with timers for the last....decade?

[Elmagor]

Not really sure what the problem here is. If the purple eye timer runs out during Judgement, the eyes will come directly after Judgement. When turning on enemy inductions you know exactly when Judgement ends so you know when to put your debuffs on him.

Puddles can drop during Judgement, adds can be spawned during Judgement. Technically Judgement must block all other mechanics. Bad idea when 2 or 3 mechanics working in same time and players need to do 3 different actions in same time

We have same problem during Fall of Khazad Dum fight - when you kite shadow grim, boss can cast Fulmination and you done. So developers block that confict, adding protection from Fulmination for player who kite grim.

Not sure how this stands out amongst any other boss fight we've had....everything has always worked with timers for the last....decade?

SV T3 have too much mechanic what you need check out in same time:

1)You need make sure what boss attack tank and not other players (he drops agro after every Judgement)
2)You need make sure what you remove stackable debuffs from you
3)You need make sure what you put puddles far from other players
4)You need make sure what you interrupt Fear cast
5)You need make sure what you far from boss during Judgement
6)You need damage adds in same time. If Judgement drag you on puddles or on adds, you done
7)You need heal himself from debuff damage
8)You need remove corruptions from 50% of adds and force-agro another 50% of adds

You can compare it with amount of mechanics in any other 3-Man instances. T3 must be doable without scripts. And T5 must be doable without stacking bubbles and healers. 1 million damage from simple dot too much for 6-man instance.

You can compare SV with House of Rest. House of Rest was changed many many times, but in the end it's far more easy for PUGs and casual players comparing with SV

[zipfile]

dds can be spawned during Judgement

Adds are morale based threshold, so time your DPS accordingly.

[Elmagor]

Adds are morale based threshold, so time your DPS accordingly.

And how you can do it with PUG? Name 6-man instance where you need stop your DPS so many times as in SV.

I don't say this boss broken. He have interesting mechanic. But this mechanic needs to be adjusted to less punishing at least for T3 instance. 1st part of boss way too easy, and 2nd part of boss way too hard. When you doing so much mechanics for just 1 boss phase, you need make sure what this mechanic working well and don't turn your fight into chaotic mess.

[zipfile]

And how you can do it with PUG? Name 6-man instance where you need stop your DPS so many times as in SV.

Lost Temple, Silent Street, Dome of Stars.

[Elmagor]

Lost Temple, Silent Street, Dome of Stars.

Dome of Stars have same problems with melee dps as SV. Lost Temple... well, hardmode have hidden 11 min timer. If you stop your dps, boss just one-shot everyone when timer ends.

Silent Street wasn't bad because of boss casts

[zipfile]

Dome of Stars have same problems with melee dps as SV. Lost Temple... well, hardmode have hidden 11 min timer. If you stop your dps, boss just one-shot everyone when timer ends.

Silent Street wasn't bad because of boss casts

I've seen better arguments from my shampoo bottles while showering.

[Lhimlight]

i think the add phases are fine you can time them, thats no issue, i feel that the judgment and puddle phase should be either one or the other, same time unless your very lucky is a wipe especially on those higher tiers. everything else i would say is fine.

[Elmagor]

i think the add phases are fine you can time them, thats no issue, i feel that the judgment and puddle phase should be either one or the other, same time unless your very lucky is a wipe especially on those higher tiers. everything else i would say is fine.

At least if they add cast for puddles and adds that means boss can't use them in same time when he use judgement

I've seen better arguments from my shampoo bottles while showering.

Don't forget what all instances what you mention have simple adds. All of adds can be CC, all of adds can get agro, all of adds don't have corruptions. In the past, Turbine devs can create simple instances. Now they stack mechanic on mechanic on mechanic, poorly tested ontest server, with a lof of hotfixes on live. HOR have a lot of fixes on live servers. SV have a lot of fixes on live servers, and they still going, 6 months after they release instances. Did you remember any amount of fixes for Lost Temple, or Dome of Stars, or Silent Street?

[Brinuw]

What starts the Eye timing, and the timer for that mechanic. In my groups attempts some times the eyes start at the same time as Judgement (85%), but then sometimes it starts after.

I personally dont mind when fights require external plugin timers; as others have mentioned other 6mans have needed such fine tuning and even Battle for Erebor had mechanics that required plugins to track moral much finer than the base game could.

I just dont fully understand what triggers the eyes which makes some of our attempts just go to the pits as soon as we hit 85% while other attempts the timing is staggered and we are able to succeed.

[Elmagor]

What starts the Eye timing, and the timer for that mechanic. In my groups attempts some times the eyes start at the same time as Judgement (85%), but then sometimes it starts after.

I personally dont mind when fights require external plugin timers; as others have mentioned other 6mans have needed such fine tuning and even Battle for Erebor had mechanics that required plugins to track moral much finer than the base game could.

I just dont fully understand what triggers the eyes which makes some of our attempts just go to the pits as soon as we hit 85% while other attempts the timing is staggered and we are able to succeed.

Boss randomly cast debuff on 3-5 people (depends on tier) with 1 min timer. It's pure random and if you see what boss don't have eye on you, you can heal/interrupt boss when other spreading puddles

[zipfile]

It's pure random and if you see what boss don't have eye on you, you can heal/interrupt boss when other spreading puddles

Have you considered googling what Resistance is?

[Elmagor]

Have you considered googling what Resistance is?

Resistance have nothing with positioning on this boss. Healer must see who need bubble/heal, other classes must see who have enough time to remove corruptions from adds/interrupt boss.

[zipfile]

Resistance have nothing with positioning on this boss.

lol

[Elmagor]

lol

People asking how eyes working and why they happens during judgement. How resistance related to this? They need understand how mechanic working before stacking stats for T4-T5 SV

[zipfile]

People asking how eyes working and why they happens during judgement. How resistance related to this? They need understand how mechanic working before stacking stats for T4-T5 SV

Eyes is a debuff that is placed on all 6 people in an instance.

The debuff has to go through a resistance check, specifically targeting Fear Resistance.

This means that having high resistance, on top of having a Captain with pre-emptive Muster Courage, will severely reduce the threat they pose.

Additionally, they're tactical damage, so even if you do get them, having a TOD + high tactical mitigation will also greatly reduce the damage the eye itself deals (not the puddle, as that is tactical damage so TOD won't work)

In turn, all of this affects positioning, as it's fairly easy to deal with only one or two Eyes then, even during Judgement.

[Elmagor]

Eyes is a debuff that is placed on all 6 people in an instance.

The debuff has to go through a resistance check, specifically targeting Fear Resistance.

This means that having high resistance, on top of having a Captain with pre-emptive Muster Courage, will severely reduce the threat they pose.

Additionally, they're tactical damage, so even if you do get them, having a TOD + high tactical mitigation will also greatly reduce the damage the eye itself deals (not the puddle, as that is tactical damage so TOD won't work)

In turn, all of this affects positioning, as it's fairly easy to deal with only one or two Eyes then, even during Judgement.

I agree with you, but Fear Resistance wasn't panacea if people don't understand mechanic. And not all groups have Captain.

[zipfile]

And not all groups have Captain.

But all groups can get decent resistance.

But all groups can get a decent Minstrel.

There's literally 0 excuse for people other than skill issue.

[Elmagor]

But all groups can get decent resistance.

But all groups can get a decent Minstrel.

There's literally 0 excuse for people other than skill issue.

My LM have 700K+ resistance and that wasn't enough on T5 cause we have only 1 healer (RK). How much resistance we need to stack to complete instance?

[Emaldiom]

My LM have 700K+ resistance and that wasn't enough on T5 cause we have only 1 healer (RK). How much resistance we need to stack to complete instance?

0, but everything over 0 helps as getting 1 less eye helps out the player itself and the healer.

Judging by everything you have written here i see only 1 issue.
Skill issues

[Elmagor]

0, but everything over 0 helps as getting 1 less eye helps out the player itself and the healer.

Judging by everything you have written here i see only 1 issue.
Skill issues

I don't have much details, so how you know about that? So much ego

[Emaldiom]

I don't have much details, so how you know about that? So much ego

I suggest you read your conversation with zipfile again with an open mind.
No ego here. Just a long time player of this game who is seeing the same thing in every new instance no matter how hard / easy it is.
Mechanics in this game are fairly straight forward and for the most part you can avoid anything if you just take your time to learn both your class and the specific mechanics in each instance.