Update 6: Developer Diary Feedback: PvMP - Audacity

[Clover]

Increasing ranks of Audacity will reduce incoming damage and crowd control durations while in the Ettenmoors. Freeps and Creeps will spend Commendations to improve their Audacity, though in different ways. Read more about Audacity in the latest Developer Diary from Brian "Zombie Columbus" Aloisio and post your comments here!

[Lestache]

Interesting idea, but until creep damage and CC actually significantly impact freeps, I'd imagine that gear with Audacity will be largely ignored by freeps - especially if the gear is generally worse stat-wise than PvE gear.

[Louvre]

Sounds good.

I do have to mention that somehow, I always get the feeling that dev diaries are too short.

Just when I think you're introducing me in to the subject BAM! , the dev diary is over.

I still don't get what you mean with this " Seasons mechanic " .

With Update 6, the War panel will have some cosmetic updates as well as a place for the new Audacity trait.

Could you please elaborate a little more on this ?

[Sezneg]

Combat pacing is the single largest problem in the moors.

If you successfully fix it, the quality of the pvp will be hugely improved.

So many issues are fixed just by slowing things back down...

1. Reduces the overall contribution of certain cooldowns, meaning they are still useful and powerful but do not by themselves win a fight.
2. Less DPS race, more actual combat.
3. Much better scaling of fights as more players become involved.

This is a very good development.

The CC reduction is icing on the cake.

[Regero]

I don't understand this:

Freeps acquire their Audacity ranks through itemization. The new PvMP armor sets will each have +1 Audacity and will exclusively cost Commendations. Later updates may include Audacity on additional item slots, but for now the basic six armour slots are the only places the stat will appear. When a new season starts, gear with higher Audacity will become available.


So Creeps won't need to grind for their Audacity, and it comes as a passive trait, but freeps do need to grind for their audacity and we get pigeonholed into a specific set of armor in order to make full use of it? Why can't we just make is a passive bonus for freeps and creeps, tie it to rank to reward Veteran players (there is very little incentive for veteran creeps anymore), and make it so once you buy it, you've bought it and it's on you permanently or until it's available to be upgraded again.

[EvilEirnie]

So Audacity is like resilience from the other game that i wont name...

[Louvre]

So Creeps won't need to grind for their Audacity, and it comes as a passive trait, but freeps do need to grind for their audacity and we get pigeonholed into a specific set of armor in order to make full use of it? Why can't we just make is a passive bonus for freeps and creeps, tie it to rank to reward Veteran players (there is very little incentive for veteran creeps anymore), and make it so once you buy it, you've bought it and it's on you permanently or until it's available to be upgraded again.

No. No.

Both freeps and creeps get Audacity with Commendations.

The difference is that freeps trade their Commendations for armour, and creeps for a passive trait.

Creep's Audacity Rank is not linked to the Infamy Rank.

[Theandil]

hmm nice idea. But now dps of creeps is too low, and we deal very low dmg to compare some freeps. So with U6 our damge will be inceresed?

[Sezneg]

So Creeps won't need to grind for their Audacity, and it comes as a passive trait, but freeps do need to grind for their audacity and we get pigeonholed into a specific set of armor in order to make full use of it? Why can't we just make is a passive bonus for freeps and creeps, tie it to rank to reward Veteran players (there is very little incentive for veteran creeps anymore), and make it so once you buy it, you've bought it and it's on you permanently or until it's available to be upgraded again.

Creeps will have just as much grinding, we'll both be spending commendations to improve this stat.

Yes, if you want to have audacity you will be pigeonholed into pvp armor (many players have been asking for pvp focused armor, here it is!). Kind of reigns in some of the build freedom introduced in ROI (this might be a feature, not a bug as balancing things out based on the many builds available post ROI is not an easy thing).

Sure you're pigeonholed... but so are creeps. Makes balancing things a lot easier when you know what each side is going to end up around statwise. A lot of the problems in RoI era pvp probably stem from the developer's assumptions that freeps would build more defensively for the moors (see the pvp sets), but clearly quite the opposite has happened.

Be interesting to see how this gear looks stat-wise.

[thunderchickn]

Interesting idea, but until creep damage and CC actually significantly impact freeps, I'd imagine that gear with Audacity will be largely ignored by freeps - especially if the gear is generally worse stat-wise than PvE gear.

I strongly disagree. I think this is what they meant when they said they see PvP gear as "more of a necessity than an achievement". You will need this gear which is awesome, I've always been bugged that the PvP gear isn't even that great in PvP for most classes. Finally we actually need PvP gear to PvP! I'm not sure what you mean by Creep DPS anyways, the 2 significant DPS classes on Creep side - BAs and Reavers - do good damage. If I can reduce incoming damage and CC by a significant amount there is no amount of stats (practically) that can make up for that.

I think you are going to be at a serious disadvantage if you choose not to take advantage of Audacity. Sounds like a great mechanic, the Moors really needs to be slowed down and we really need to use PvP armor in PvP.

Who knows, maybe this gear will have lower stats, enough to reduce our damage output and morale by a good chunk? This is an interesting way that they could level out Creeps and Freeps a little bit.

[Nyrion]

Seems to me that you've nailed the major issues with the Moors currently. Obviously we don't know for sure how well the changes will affect them, but reading the plans I'm going to be fairly optimistic.

[n3xxus]

Your going to force me to wear PvP armour. Which is never better than raid gear, has usefull set bonuses for only 1 or 2 classes, and never gets updated with expansions. Indirect nerf to freeps. Make it a passive just like creeps.

[Lenton]

It's hard to look at this without making comparisons to SWTOR's expertise.

That said, I like it. Less CC and less damage make for longer, more interesting fights. That said...there has to be a better word than "Audacity" for this type of stat.

[Arvaen]

hmm nice idea. But now dps of creeps is too low, and we deal very low dmg to compare some freeps. So with U6 our damge will be inceresed?

This is what I'm seeing as well. If the benefits of audacity are going to be made significant enough to protect creeps from freep DPS, but you then mirror the effects for freeps... Creeps will be in the same position as before in terms of CC and damage.

So are creeps in general going to see a boost somewhere else?

[Chiolas]

Reavers - do good damage.

So will something keep the freeps from swapping gear from time to time to gain effects not present in PvP gear?

This sounds good (albeit too late, GW2 *.*), my biggest concern is the low ranked creeps, even with Audacity they will still be blow up by all freeps (excluding lvl 40's maybe)

EDIT: didn't read the part about Seasons (too little info btw :P), although it still leaves me with some concern for greenies, it seems a step in the right direction

[LeRaginAsian]

Your going to force me to wear PvP armour. Which is never better than raid gear, has usefull set bonuses for only 1 or 2 classes, and never gets updated with expansions. Indirect nerf to freeps. Make it a passive just like creeps.

No one's going to force you to wear it, but the defense bonuses of Moors armor via PvMP-only Audacity will make it viable without letting PvE-only players cry about needing to go to the Moors to get the "best" armour.

But since they're currently planning on capping Audacity at 7, I think they should go ahead and put it on jewelry as well, that way we have more options for capping out. Maybe gear that still requires rank could have more to higher-ranked freeps get even more flexibility as their reward.

[Nyrion]

This is what I'm seeing as well. If the benefits of audacity are going to be made significant enough to protect creeps from freep DPS, but you then mirror the effects for freeps... Creeps will be in the same position as before in terms of CC and damage.

So are creeps in general going to seeing a boost somewhere else?

One thing to bear in mind is that ALL creeps will get at least some Audacity on principle(a sizeable amount from R1 if I read correctly). Freeps on the other hand will require PvP gear, which obviously not all of them wear. Presumably many more will after U6 hits, but I don't see the majority of freeps walking around with full sets at any point.

[Squelcher]

This seems like a good idea to me. I hope audacity will help to increase the benefit of ranking up, it might help to bolster creeps against freep damage, if implemented properly.

[Sezneg]

One thing to bear in mind is that ALL creeps will get at least some Audacity on principle(a sizeable amount from R1 if I read correctly). Freeps on the other hand will require PvP gear, which obviously not all of them wear. Presumably many more will after U6 hits, but I don't see the majority of freeps walking around with full sets at any point.

Freeps will ALSO get a good bit from rank 1 for free (you will gain this automatically at level 40).

[Moondog548]

This is what I'm seeing as well. If the benefits of audacity are going to be made significant enough to protect creeps from freep DPS, but you then mirror the effects for freeps... Creeps will be in the same position as before in terms of CC and damage.

So are creeps in general going to see a boost somewhere else?

It sounds like this will open a window (by "slowing things down") for actual tactics to come into play. Creeps are theoretically supposed to have a number/expendability advantage over Freeps. Simply lowering the travel-time-to-death ratio will help Creeps out.

In theory.

I don't mpvp on either side because it always amounts to spending the vast majority of the time just running across the landscape to whereever the zerg is, then as soon as there's any action I'm lagged-rooted-dead in a matter of seconds.

[Arvaen]

It sounds like this will open a window (by "slowing things down") for actual tactics to come into play. Creeps are theoretically supposed to have a number/expendability advantage over Freeps. Simply lowering the travel-time-to-death ratio will help Creeps out.

In theory.

That was the theory. Years ago. When they didn't realize how many people would involve themselves in PvMP. But somewhere along the line, someone realized that it's bad idea to make individuals on one side inherently weaker.

The design today is suppose to be 1:1.

[Nyrion]

Freeps will ALSO get a good bit from rank 1 for free (you will gain this automatically at level 40).

Ah yeah, you're right. My mistake.

[ararax2]

So, Let me get this straight.
Freepies and Creepies hit rank 7 in Audacity.

New season starts.

If Freeps hit lv 85, old gear is stat terribad, and they need to buy all 6 new pieces.

New season starts freeps are still lv 85.
They now need to aquire new pvmp gear for all 6 slots

In both cases creeps just need to get the next level worth.

So unless the next level for creeps costs the same as a full set of armor for freeps, i dont see how this in any way works.

Terrible idea.

Also will really make new people unlikely to come out to the moors. That season's piece they ear will not be worth much at all if they earn it at the end of a season.

Just make it a passive stat for freeps and creeps.

[MathKnight]

They needed a name which tied in with Commendations. Sadly, the best they could come up with is Audacity. Suggest a better name quickly! I don't have one!

While this new stat sounds great for creeps, giving it in mirrored amounts makes the idea unfortunate for those same creeps. Good news for creeps, it's permanent. Whoo yeah. Bad news, the freeps get it too (which is fine except for) with their overwhelming damage and crowd control superiority.

I like how it goes on to basically say "There will be power creep with this stat." or maybe "We will be giving people who PvMP more advantage. Deal with it."

Result: Undecided. Hopeful but irritated.

[Moondog548]

So, Let me get this straight.
Freepies and Creepies hit rank 7 in Audacity.

New season starts.

If Freeps hit lv 85, old gear is stat terribad, and they need to buy all 6 new pieces.

New season starts freeps are still lv 85.
They now need to aquire new pvmp gear for all 6 slots

In both cases creeps just need to get the next level worth.

So unless the next level for creeps costs the same as a full set of armor for freeps, i dont see how this in any way works.

Terrible idea.

Also will really make new people unlikely to come out to the moors. That season's piece they ear will not be worth much at all if they earn it at the end of a season.

Just make it a passive stat for freeps and creeps.

Ooooops.

Looks like yet another reason that jumping 10 levels (instead of, say, 5) is a silly thing to do.