A VIP Subscriber's woes!

[anthonyx]

I have been a sub since I started many years ago though now I am considering to go f2p. The reality is when you cap whats the point? The only thing i need and I will buy is the 2 extra char slots (I already have the +2 with the pre order of moria). Now this carrot that is said to be coming in the new years (I sound negative but I am really am not, just a realist) with new content sounds promising but I will believe it when i see it. I love LOTRO and want this game to continue to be better. I have 4 subs (friends and family) and at 1 point it was 5. All those except 1 (he plays all manner of creeps) makes no sense to continue paying for a sub.

I play other games where subbing is something that makes sense. I get it, it is probably like most other games, f2p actually pay more then i do a month because of the micromanagement. But those players aren't usually long term investments.

What I would want to make it worth it:

The skill tree options to buy a third should be much cheaper for VIP. In fact out of principle I will not pay for it because it is for 1 toon, not server or account wide. That is way too much to charge. And I know the argument. It is just a convenience but I know many players who will not trait a third line or haven't even tried the third line because they feel the other 2 or more important. I have regulated myself to 2 lines and on occasion spending the time to rearrange the traits and skill bar just to change up the pace. Make the price cheaper (I am not saying free) or account wide.

More content that is free for VIPs. There is a promise for this but again I have been disappointed many times in things that were said to be happening and never have happened (years of housing changes, cosmetic changes - such as cosmetic weapons, make kinship something epic, more PvMP options, and the list goes on).

It would seem that without an expansion Turbine will have to find other ways to make money. I am all for that because it is a business. I fear that the new housing changes will eventually cost a lot of money (I am not totally against this). The problem is that it will cost both vip and f2p lots of money alike. If I am going to get nickled and dimed I would rather not be paying monthly because it feels like I am getting doubled nickled and dimed .

So I agree with the OP that being a VIP at this point and especially if you have been playing a while makes little sense. I guess the VIP frame is cool.

[Darlgon]

All the items you have listed are extras. You really don't 'need' them. You can choose to spend your 500 points on them if you wish, but you aren't required to play the game. It's a bit like the slew of cool stuff that shows up at my local hobby shop each month. My pay doesn't go up, but there's certainly a while lot more stuff I want, but don't really need to enjoy my hobby.

Soo.. what about needs.. Like, Legendary Item Removal scrolls that used to be in game and are now costing 40% of your monthly sub allowance? (195 pts / 500)

Its not like I have, oh, say.. 5 legendary items for each of my 95s. So it will take me 975 points, or two months of monthly allotment just to remove the relics on my 85 Spear, Sword, DPS Javelin, Tanking Javelin and Medium Bridle. Then another two month so I can go on to the LM with a Raid Staff, Raid Book, DPS Staff, DPS Book and a Light Bridle. In the meantime, I am wasting the Legendary Item XP because I cannot take them off my bar and have to leave them capped just sitting there.

Or, a third trait spec for say.. being able to do KOA solo, MoNF when I want and still be ready to raid with an AM setup? (Ignoring the fact that AM is broken and confused plus content is so face-roll that I can DPS thru an entire raid because nothing needs debuffs.) Ok.. that may not be a need, except it costs.. what.. almost 2 gold to respec before and after a raid now? Not like I am rolling in coin THAT MUCH to spend 4 gold every two hours.

Or, maybe I decide to fall back to Premium, because I am low on cash. So, I log in and cannot access entire sections of content which I used to access. I then need to buy the quest content/xpac to continue where I was the day before. HOWEVER, with the current system, I cannot tell what I will not be able to access to use the TP I do have right now, to fix that problem and buy when what I need is on sale, before I run out of my VIP.


Edit.. Geez.. Is Quatermaster reading my mind or what? 2 hours later and relic removal scrolls are on sale..

https://www.lotro.com/en/lotrostoresale

[ELAzalin]

I have been a sub since I started many years ago though now I am considering to go f2p. The reality is when you cap whats the point? The only thing i need and I will buy is the 2 extra char slots (I already have the +2 with the pre order of moria). Now this carrot that is said to be coming in the new years (I sound negative but I am really am not, just a realist) with new content sounds promising but I will believe it when i see it. I love LOTRO and want this game to continue to be better. I have 4 subs (friends and family) and at 1 point it was 5. All those except 1 (he plays all manner of creeps) makes no sense to continue paying for a sub.

I play other games where subbing is something that makes sense. I get it, it is probably like most other games, f2p actually pay more then i do a month because of the micromanagement. But those players aren't usually long term investments.

What I would want to make it worth it:

The skill tree options to buy a third should be much cheaper for VIP. In fact out of principle I will not pay for it because it is for 1 toon, not server or account wide. That is way too much to charge. And I know the argument. It is just a convenience but I know many players who will not trait a third line or haven't even tried the third line because they feel the other 2 or more important. I have regulated myself to 2 lines and on occasion spending the time to rearrange the traits and skill bar just to change up the pace. Make the price cheaper (I am not saying free) or account wide.

More content that is free for VIPs. There is a promise for this but again I have been disappointed many times in things that were said to be happening and never have happened (years of housing changes, cosmetic changes - such as cosmetic weapons, make kinship something epic, more PvMP options, and the list goes on).

It would seem that without an expansion Turbine will have to find other ways to make money. I am all for that because it is a business. I fear that the new housing changes will eventually cost a lot of money (I am not totally against this). The problem is that it will cost both vip and f2p lots of money alike. If I am going to get nickled and dimed I would rather not be paying monthly because it feels like I am getting doubled nickled and dimed .

So I agree with the OP that being a VIP at this point and especially if you have been playing a while makes little sense. I guess the VIP frame is cool.

I agree with you on the skill tree options; however, how would you code that? An instant coupon or code for VIP get it for this price and Premium/F2P pay normal? I don't see them going through the trouble.

[Tailborn]

After 6 whole years of subbing, from SoA to HD. Turbine have dissapointed me, but I'm a foolish optimist.

For as long as this game lives, Turbine will have my measly £8.99 each month. For what it is worth, whether it adds to the production or goes to another project. I am happy to pay to experience this beautiful and continuously growing world.

Sorry if I sound like a sheep.. Or blind (I do wear glasses..) But I am a loyal fan and despite being a VIP, I still spend TP in the store. After 6 years, these threads are wearing thin.

[aardnebby]

Soo.. what about needs.. Like, Legendary Item Removal scrolls that used to be in game and are now costing 40% of your monthly sub allowance? (195 pts / 500)

Its not like I have, oh, say.. 5 legendary items for each of my 95s. So it will take me 975 points, or two months of monthly allotment just to remove the relics on my 85 Spear, Sword, DPS Javelin, Tanking Javelin and Medium Bridle. Then another two month so I can go on to the LM with a Raid Staff, Raid Book, DPS Staff, DPS Book and a Light Bridle. In the meantime, I am wasting the Legendary Item XP because I cannot take them off my bar and have to leave them capped just sitting there.

Or, a third trait spec for say.. being able to do KOA solo, MoNF when I want and still be ready to raid with an AM setup? (Ignoring the fact that AM is broken and confused plus content is so face-roll that I can DPS thru an entire raid because nothing needs debuffs.) Ok.. that may not be a need, except it costs.. what.. almost 2 gold to respec before and after a raid now? Not like I am rolling in coin THAT MUCH to spend 4 gold every two hours.

Or, maybe I decide to fall back to Premium, because I am low on cash. So, I log in and cannot access entire sections of content which I used to access. I then need to buy the quest content/xpac to continue where I was the day before. HOWEVER, with the current system, I cannot tell what I will not be able to access to use the TP I do have right now, to fix that problem and buy when what I need is on sale, before I run out of my VIP.

Quoted for truth. The Trait Specs are particularly shocking, after all the promises about how we wouldnt lose any character functionality, because one click while out of combat and you are a different spec (except its not one of course, the UI requires you open the window, click another spec, click confirm, then spend 2 minutes checking none of your skills are now in the wrong place and fixing them if they are). So now we VIPs have to pay a significant amount per character (between 1000 and 800 TP each depending on what coin bundle you buy) to have easy access to all of our skills, otherwise we only have 2/3 .

And to add my personal bugbear, hey Sapience, whatever happened for that replacement for Destiny Points that we were promised was "in the works" or "under development" or whatever when Destiny rewards were wiped from a whole bunch of quests?

[Stniuk]

Perhaps an across the board discount, 30% for VIPs? With a stipulation that to recieve the discount on xpacs you must be subbing for say 6mths previous to the release.
It would make the VIP status more valuable and may sell more subs.

[Tryst49]

It can afford anything and everything. You just have to be pennywise and not drop your 500tp as soon as you get it like a kid in a candy store. Also if they offered everything where you could afford it instantly with the 500tp you get everyone would have all that exclusive stuff and it wouldnt be so exclusive. I mean seriously. You are paying 5 bucks a month for content and 5 for tp. How much more do you want for 10 bucks a month. The people that make the content need to get paid. The store enables that to happen with the f2p model. If you think the price is to high, speak with your wallet, or do what I hope to believe most people do and SAVE for it.

What I suggested before is for VIP's to have these items bought with Gold instead of TP. Drop the free 500 TP and leave the sub charge as it is but have the option to buy the items via the store if you don't have the gold but want it now or buy them from a VIP vendor with gold that you've saved up in the game.

Then you're paying 10 bucks for content instead of just 5. On top of that, you could dish out a few extra bucks in the store to save yourself waiting until you've saved up the gold. There are quite a few players who are too impatient to wait. It's a win-win for both sides.

Having a cash shop for things like mounts for a VIP is really a bit harsh. They pay a sub so they should be entitled to an alternate way of getting those items. Let's face it, a mount is almost an essential item given the size of the maps. VIP's should really only have to buy cosmetic items from the CS because they are not really a necessity for game play, clothing and items for the house etc are extras. The cheapest mount is around 750TP so that's 2 months to wait until the 500TP accumulates enough to buy an essential item.

[ELAzalin]

What I suggested before is for VIP's to have these items bought with Gold instead of TP. Drop the free 500 TP and leave the sub charge as it is but have the option to buy the items via the store if you don't have the gold but want it now or buy them from a VIP vendor with gold that you've saved up in the game.

Then you're paying 10 bucks for content instead of just 5. On top of that, you could dish out a few extra bucks in the store to save yourself waiting until you've saved up the gold. There are quite a few players who are too impatient to wait. It's a win-win for both sides.

Having a cash shop for things like mounts for a VIP is really a bit harsh. They pay a sub so they should be entitled to an alternate way of getting those items. Let's face it, a mount is almost an essential item given the size of the maps. VIP's should really only have to buy cosmetic items from the CS because they are not really a necessity for game play, clothing and items for the house etc are extras. The cheapest mount is around 750TP so that's 2 months to wait until the 500TP accumulates enough to buy an essential item.

I really enjoy my monthly stipend to in perpetuity. I did happen to buy a Steed of the Night when it was up and I like it. But to say you need to buy store mounts to get around is like you need a Ferrari to go down the street. I STILL have characters that are in their near 40s without the riding skill and happen to get around on the Bree Pony or Steed. Just because I didn't get around to doing the horse quest. Now the horses I use now are the 5th year anniversary horse for the most part. Do I really need 8% or more speed? The ability to not get knocked off the horse while you are critically hit by a mob? I would have to say "no" that is why I only have 1 store mount.

[exx2000]

congrats this wins stupid post of the week for sure.

Lets see... Is something better then something else, if it offers benefit then the other thing. Yes, in fact I'd say that's pretty much the most basic meaning of the word better.

LotRO offers more to it's subscribers then RIFT does, so I would say that by any objective measure it does that means LotRO's is better.

Now I think that RIFT's over all F2P system is better, but when looking at just VIP, LotRO clearly gives you more for your money.

I will refrain from sinking to your level and merely choose to point out what I think you forgot. The reason LOTROs VIP plan is better than Rifts Plan is because Rift doesn't have much to offer considering the benefits that Rifts F2P plan gives you. Not to mention you can use in game money to buy plenty of the benefits you get in the store if I recall correctly. Either way I'm going to refrain from making this a debate between games. If I wanted to post something about Rift I would do it on their forums. All I did was state was that I played multiple games and that I don't mind supporting good products. It was you who chose to compare the plans anyway. But I immensely thank you for educating me on the meaning of the word "better". Please refrain from coming back with further unnecessary comments because I'll just choose to ignore it unless of course it has something that contributes to the thread.

@Sapience : When you has asked me to send a link of the thread me and my kinmates were rather doubtful that you would take your time to read it. For that I definitely thank you for proving us wrong and I thank you for your time and effort.

Kate has released her producer's letter where she comments on even more new content being released on a quarterly schedule, free for VIP. if you compare that to previous years with one new content update for free for VIPs, it represents a 4x increase in free content next year for subscribers. Content Premium and Free players will need to pay for.

Kate also promised a revised housing system in 2013 and I don't think that's happening within the mentioned time frame. Possible content releases in an unknown time frame does not justify being a VIP to that period either.

PvMP we covered pretty well in beta as to why people should expect too much from it with Helm's Deep. Primarily because we wanted to get class changes shaken down and sorted and apply balance and changes to PvMP after that, rather than try to do it all at once which would have been a pretty big mess. Jinjaah had some pretty lengthy conversations with the Players Council when they were here, especially Delmore, and they've expanded those conversations to the whole council. So I would recommend just holding tight until the plans are locked down and he shares them with everyone.

Understandable, but I have become rather skeptical when updates to the Ettenmoors are mentioned. In experience most just turn out disappointing.

All the items you have listed are extras. You really don't 'need' them. You can choose to spend your 500 points on them if you wish, but you aren't required to play the game. It's a bit like the slew of cool stuff that shows up at my local hobby shop each month. My pay doesn't go up, but there's certainly a while lot more stuff I want, but don't really need to enjoy my hobby.

As for the unlocks, at least regarding traits, the team is actually looking into a possible price adjustment in the future. No solid info, but they have heard the comments and feedback.

I love reading and I can guarantee I would be very angry if the bookstore gave me a box with 500 pages thrown in there. Perhaps the analogy was a bit far fetched but at the moment that's what I feel like. I purchased a VIP subscription followed by every expansion and I end up seeing functionality limited regardless of whether I do subscribe or not. Not to mention the tons of bugs although many have been removed with a patch which I humbly am thankful for.

All I can say is I ask you folks to take a look at this and make changes if you feel it needs some because I can assure you that I and my family are at the verge of not subscribing again.

PS : I might consider extending it a month or so if someone makes a cosmetic shorts to go with my bare chested dwarves. Thanks.

[Maximilan]

Here is the truth in a nutshell. If I had spent the same amount of money on turbine points I would have gotten a much better investment on my money than paying for this silly subscription.

Yes, many people have come to that conclusion. In fact I have everything I need as Premium and put less than half the amount of $ in per year now versus before F2P. Go figure.

Kate has released her producer's letter where she comments on even more new content being released on a quarterly schedule, free for VIP. if you compare that to previous years with one new content update for free for VIPs, it represents a 4x increase in free content next year for subscribers. Content Premium and Free players will need to pay for.

This is a step in the right direction - who knows maybe it'll make me reconsider and re-sub!

[Tryst49]

This is a step in the right direction - who knows maybe it'll make me reconsider and re-sub!

That really depends on what the new content contains. Many players have been complaining about being rail-roaded into single zones rather than being able to decide between two or more zones for that level. Upping the level cap and adding a new zone for it is not the answer, I would rather keep the current level cap and have more zones to choose from for each range of levels, more variations in gear and more recipes for crafting and so on. Keep players interested while they level instead of making leveling a chore to get to the next good bit of content.