..not a single word on the defiler, really?

[Firusha]

..i cannot say that i am really surprised but what happened to the defiler 'being the top priority' for update 13?

i think this settles it for me and i will quit this game. pvmp is the only thing which keeps me (and almost all the people i play with) in this game, but you do nothing to make it better. nothing but empty promises - and stuff nobody ever asks for.

i know this is just another QQ-topic but sometimes you just have to tell people when you are dissapointed too much, too often.

[Sezneg]

..i cannot say that i am really surprised but what happened to the defiler 'being the top priority' for update 13?

i think this settles it for me and i will quit this game. pvmp is the only thing which keeps me (and almost all the people i play with) in this game, but you do nothing to make it better. nothing but empty promises - and stuff nobody ever asks for.

i know this is just another QQ-topic but sometimes you just have to tell people when you are dissapointed too much, too often.

1. You are really stretching words here. Defilers were never the top priority of update 13. Jinjaah wanted to do a healing pass for creeps, and in doing that he was looking at defilers as the top priority in making sure creep healing was where it needed to be. You can go back and read the post. That's actually what was said. Twisting his words like this isn't going to get anything fixed, and it's going to make getting honest communication less likely in the future.

2. There was a big change in staffing at Turbine during the development of this update.

[LEGENDofALL]

while i play freep and i can honestly say defilers and weavers should have been at the top of the list but instead we got.........


auto leveling freeps to 95 so they can pvp...........now this my friends is a joke, sorry a down right joke

[Firusha]

even if we leave aside the defiler and the not-to-happen healing update.. do you really want to tell me that - as a creep player - these patch notes do not make you shake your head?

[Oesi]

1. You are really stretching words here. Defilers were never the top priority of update 13. Jinjaah wanted to do a healing pass for creeps, and in doing that he was looking at defilers as the top priority in making sure creep healing was where it needed to be. You can go back and read the post. That's actually what was said. Twisting his words like this isn't going to get anything fixed, and it's going to make getting honest communication less likely in the future.

2. There was a big change in staffing at Turbine during the development of this update.

We are looking to do another healing pass for update 13 for creep classes. The defiler is the top priority.

-Jinjaah

Top priority, in this case, it is just a lie.

edit:edith

[b4jet9597]

while i play freep and i can honestly say defilers and weavers should have been at the top of the list but instead we got.........


auto leveling freeps to 95 so they can pvp...........now this my friends is a joke, sorry a down right joke

This makes me sick. It seems like they are actually trying to ruin all aspects of endgame. Good going Turbine. Why don't you put money and effort into things that actually need fixing rather than this type of junk that no one asked for, or wanted.

[Sezneg]

even if we leave aside the defiler and the not-to-happen healing update.. do you really want to tell me that - as a creep player - these patch notes do not make you shake your head?

Have you logged in and looked at the creep stat scaling overhaul?

I have. It's a huge improvement in terms of finesse, trait magnitudes and baseline stats.

I'm almost at 12k finesse. I can trait both mit categories over 54% (so 64% with born of shadow tiered). I can hit 70% crit mag reduction. I can hit just a hair under 40% resist. Many more trait setups are looking viable.

Will this update fix everything? No. But a lot of good steps in this one so far.

[b4jet9597]

Will this update fix everything? No. But a lot of good steps in this one so far.

I do 100% agree with this. Other than defiler healing and this trash idea of lvl 20s being scaled the rest of the notes looked awesome. I'm updating BR as I type this so I'll get to see soon. The wardens section was quite disheartening though, unless their bleeds are actually done correctly this time.

[spelunker]

I do 100% agree with this. Other than defiler healing and this trash idea of lvl 20s being scaled the rest of the notes looked awesome. I'm updating BR as I type this so I'll get to see soon. The wardens section was quite disheartening though, unless their bleeds are actually done correctly this time.

Since it relates to defilers i'll post here as well. Blood of fire now reflects on every DoT tick, rather than every outright attack on an orc. I had some fights with Idmel and they did somewhere around 350dps to me, with over 250 of that via blood of fire. Which compared to a 1v1 on live with him/her where they generally don't break 100 dps. Its great that defilers have at least SOME dps now, though when you consider the implications for reavers, its a bit more broken.

In a few different fights with reavers, and impale and blood of fire flip flopped as their highest source of damage on me, depending on whether impale was a crit or not.

[Me_the_Third]

Defiler heals have been buffed. The heals themselves are the same, but creeps are significantly tougher now so it amounts to the same thing. I did a few 1v1s today, and the difference was easily noticeable. I still think Defiler healing is limited by the long inductions with no way to rush them, but magnitude-wise they may be alright as is.

[Sezneg]

Since it relates to defilers i'll post here as well. Blood of fire now reflects on every DoT tick, rather than every outright attack on an orc. I had some fights with Idmel and they did somewhere around 350dps to me, with over 250 of that via blood of fire. Which compared to a 1v1 on live with him/her where they generally don't break 100 dps. Its great that defilers have at least SOME dps now, though when you consider the implications for reavers, its a bit more broken.

In a few different fights with reavers, and impale and blood of fire flip flopped as their highest source of damage on me, depending on whether impale was a crit or not.

That seems... not intentional. Maybe some ripple down from the behind the scenes things getting changed.

I'd be very interested to see how you think the bleed redo for wardens came out. I read the "now hits X targets" stuff before the "damage rebalanced" bit and it was not good for my blood pressure.

[spelunker]

That seems... not intentional. Maybe some ripple down from the behind the scenes things getting changed.

I'd be very interested to see how you think the bleed redo for wardens came out. I read the "now hits X targets" stuff before the "damage rebalanced" bit and it was not good for my blood pressure.

Here is your buffed warden values on Bullroarer:


and the current ones on live:


These photos are listed correctly, btw.
Identical builds and LIs (I do have different morale, but that is due to a virtue change, and I don't carry any mastery boosting virtues) if you look closely, I actually have 1 more OP in the live picture than in the BR one, so the current live values would be a bit lower, but not nearly a match for the 'buff' bleeds are getting.

My warden will be having a much tougher time against reavers, based on the current U13 build, and defilers will also be a far more interesting fight. Things have indeed gotten worse for every other creep class though.

How do you like the prospects of impale not being your largest single source of damage anymore against a warden, without the skill taking any nerfs?

stolen from a post elsewhere. Basically the changes to mastery lower DoT damage significantly more than the whatever the base value of the DoTs raises it. I haven't tested any other freeps out to know how much more or less their damage has been effected. My dps on creeps was down only about 10-15% against a warg, but over 25% against a Reaver, and maybe 15-20% on what seemed to be a mits/crit (not crit D) specced WL. which comes from a combination of lower mastery, higher base creep crit defense, higher creep mits (hilariously it seems wargs gained the least mitigations of any creep I looked at), which is extra effective for a reaver thanks to the relentless buff being an additive bonus, rather than rating based (which bodes well for spider defenses as well with born of shadow).

[Sezneg]

stolen from a post elsewhere. Basically the changes to mastery lower DoT damage significantly more than the whatever the base value of the DoTs raises it. I haven't tested any other freeps out to know how much more or less their damage has been effected. My dps on creeps was down only about 10-15% against a warg, but over 25% against a Reaver, and maybe 15-20% on what seemed to be a mits/crit (not crit D) specced WL. which comes from a combination of lower mastery, higher base creep crit defense, higher creep mits (hilariously it seems wargs gained the least mitigations of any creep I looked at), which is extra effective for a reaver thanks to the relentless buff being an additive bonus, rather than rating based (which bodes well for spider defenses as well with born of shadow).

Interesting. It's a decent drop from a 1v1 perspective. But having this going into so many targets in a larger group fight setting is VERY unsettling for me.

On the warg mitigation gain, what they did was boost what each creep passive provides. The passives are the little orange squares on our character sheets... long ago we had to purchase these with destiny. Wargs have the lowest armor passive, so they get the least armor from the boost.

The hilarious part is my highest passive is "power" as a spider.... so hooray I gained some more power pool than everyone else...

Also you should have decent avoidance passives on your warg, hence the tank-like levels of that.

This was a way for them to do a broad-stroke boost on the quick since the passives caused the broad changes to be some what tailored by class. We can probably get into all kinds of debates now about whether a given creep class has enough or the right passives, as these were assigned when monsterplay was created and obviously things have changed. I honestly think spiders should have at least another square of avoidance myself, so that catch prey actually has a measurable effect when active vs finesse.

[Jinjaah]

Defiler has received some increased potency that will most likely be in the next BR patch. Their heals have been scaled, inductions reduced, and some of their debuffs have been modified to reflect the increase in stat pools.

-Jinjaah

[xRaina]

There are a number of Defiler changes that did not make it into the builds in time to make it for this round on Bullroarer. Keep an eye out in the next build.

[Sniz]

Awesome news, thanks for the update! Look forward to seeing the changes!

[Firusha]

Defiler has received some increased potency that will most likely be in the next BR patch. Their heals have been scaled, inductions reduced, and some of their debuffs have been modified to reflect the increase in stat pools.

-Jinjaah

There are a number of Defiler changes that did not make it into the builds in time to make it for this round on Bullroarer. Keep an eye out in the next build.

okay.. this and what those people tell us who already tested their monsters a bit on bullroarer makes me hope again.. but i also hope that this next update will be very, very soon and as good as you tell us now :/

[jazz_bgs]

As a fellow Creep i can just say that there is a problem whit the Weaver and Defiler ... but they actualy need to take a good look at the Warden and lets not forget about the burglars ..... a burglar can take you down in less than 15 second , why they given use ranks is that just for show off or achivment or now days the rank is called to the seconds we can live trought ? i hate when i see i cant play my spider .. for being unable to actualy do something in solo .... while every freep class has the potential to faceroll me so easly . Seen a creep spider cant remeber hes name so ill call him XR13 you dont have to be so full of your self trying to tell people that spider is still playable ... iv seen veterans spiders rank 13 / 14 getting facerolled by a rank 6 freep ( Random Class ) reflect is easly noticable they can just full you whit dots and wait for it to go away while you use Catch Pray + your CC chain to actualy get some dmg on them but weaver at this momen is so called a walking bag of renown ... lets not get into the CC that 60% of time can be resisted or Missed in case ... im actualy looking forward to see the new upcoming changes in u13 but i refuse to pay any more money for subscription for pve content or anything for my creep valuable ...
Second thing what turbine needs to do is the lag , here on snowbourn the lag is just infernal we are not here to play mine craft turbine to lower our graphics to 0 so we still get a skill of after 40 seconds i actualy dare you to come one night of pvp in Snowbourn or any other Populated server whit pvp ... and you want the premium people to come in moors? that will crash the server in case there will be like 300 freeps /creeps in same place .... do something about that too.

Im not here to Q.Q cant give a damn as i left lotro once i can do it again but its a shame cuz the pvp is actualy enjoyable.

[Sezneg]

As a fellow Creep i can just say that there is a problem whit the Weaver and Defiler ... but they actualy need to take a good look at the Warden and lets not forget about the burglars ..... a burglar can take you down in less than 15 second , why they given use ranks is that just for show off or achivment or now days the rank is called to the seconds we can live trought ? i hate when i see i cant play my spider .. for being unable to actualy do something in solo .... while every freep class has the potential to faceroll me so easly . Seen a creep spider cant remeber hes name so ill call him XR13 you dont have to be so full of your self trying to tell people that spider is still playable ... iv seen veterans spiders rank 13 / 14 getting facerolled by a rank 6 freep ( Random Class ) reflect is easly noticable they can just full you whit dots and wait for it to go away while you use Catch Pray + your CC chain to actualy get some dmg on them but weaver at this momen is so called a walking bag of renown ... lets not get into the CC that 60% of time can be resisted or Missed in case ... im actualy looking forward to see the new upcoming changes in u13 but i refuse to pay any more money for subscription for pve content or anything for my creep valuable ...
Second thing what turbine needs to do is the lag , here on snowbourn the lag is just infernal we are not here to play mine craft turbine to lower our graphics to 0 so we still get a skill of after 40 seconds i actualy dare you to come one night of pvp in Snowbourn or any other Populated server whit pvp ... and you want the premium people to come in moors? that will crash the server in case there will be like 300 freeps /creeps in same place .... do something about that too.

Im not here to Q.Q cant give a damn as i left lotro once i can do it again but its a shame cuz the pvp is actualy enjoyable.

I want to see this in a bit more combat, as we gained some crit defense and mits that should help.

I will say there are individual things that need looking at (gambler burg with 1 minute mez they can use every 5 seconds, coup de grace behavior {not breaking stealth/not always consuming aim}), and I want to see the warden DoTs myself a bit more.

[avengingbananaslug]

Defiler has received some increased potency that will most likely be in the next BR patch. Their heals have been scaled, inductions reduced, and some of their debuffs have been modified to reflect the increase in stat pools.

-Jinjaah

Thank you. I do not play a defiler but having one of the two creep healing classes so weak was seriously hampering play. With creeps looking to be in decent shape, might actually pay again and play my mini.

[the_bursk]

Can I ask please what you've done (or intend to do) with Blight and Flies? Also, have you considered having Relentless as a rank 9 racial option for defilers? They're usually the first to be targeted in raids, so giving higher rank defilers some more survivability would be great (and let's be honest, what use is Dying Rage to a defiler?).

[Me_the_Third]

Would it be possible for Defiler curses to become uncurable? Some of them would need a decrease in duration, but with most freep classes having a short cd cure skill the curses lose a lot of their effectiveness.

[Grytubakki]

I do 100% agree with this. Other than defiler healing and this trash idea of lvl 20s being scaled the rest of the notes looked awesome. I'm updating BR as I type this so I'll get to see soon. The wardens section was quite disheartening though, unless their bleeds are actually done correctly this time.

The warden bleedz are still op and just stupid, they add aoe to light dmg bleeds and incrase dmg on spear bleeds, wat the hell nerf it dont make it more op, and lvl 20 scale ####, cmon turbine thats just a joke, but plz focus on stuff ppl ask for but dont add some junk ppl dont want. But otherwise this update looks good