@Cordovan Regional prices for Turbine Points - are they coming after all?

[Phindecano]

Hey!

Months ago, while revamping LOTRO Store, developers introduced support for regional prices for Turbine Points. This feature was unveiled (and is still available) on Bullroarer during test weekends. As you can see on the screenshot, on Bullroarer I have prices listed in rubles since I play from Russia, and not in USD as on live servers.



As far as I understand, those regional prices are supposed to be different for different regions, just like Steam's regional prices system.

There were already some forum threads about it, blue names first confirmed it was coming, then some threads were deleted (?) and no further comments appeared.

Later Vyvyanne somewhere (not sure on the forums or during winter's stream, but it doesn't matter) mentioned that the company that was managing LOTRO Store was working to introduce this feature to live servers. And no news since then.

So here we are. Now we have new producer (hello, Severlin!) and new community manager (hello, Cordovan!). So it would be nice to get some news about regional prices for Turbine Points. The answer from QuarterMasterM would be fine too

Is this feature coming after all? When? If you don't have ETA, could you just give us some clue about approximate dates?

Many players from Russia (and other countries) are very interested and waiting the answer.

Thank you!

[Draconfier]

Hey!

Months ago, while revamping LOTRO Store, developers introduced support for regional prices for Turbine Points. This feature was unveiled (and is still available) on Bullroarer during test weekends. As you can see on the screenshot, on Bullroarer I have prices listed in rubles since I play from Russia, and not in USD as on live servers.



As far as I understand, those regional prices are supposed to be different for different regions, just like Steam's regional prices system.

There were already some forum threads about it, blue names first confirmed it was coming, then some threads were deleted (?) and no further comments appeared.

Later Vyvyanne somewhere (not sure on the forums or during winter's stream, but it doesn't matter) mentioned that the company that was managing LOTRO Store was working to introduce this feature to live servers. And no news since then.

So here we are. Now we have new producer (hello, Severlin!) and new community manager (hello, Cordovan!). So it would be nice to get some news about regional prices for Turbine Points. The answer from QuarterMasterM would be fine too

Is this feature coming after all? When? If you don't have ETA, could you just give us some clue about approximate dates?

Many players from Russia (and other countries) are very interested and waiting the answer.

Thank you!

I believe the overwhelming response on this the last time was there shouldn't be any regional pricing. I'm sorry but everyone gets the same game and should pay the same price. This isn't a social experiment where some support the gaming of others by subsidizing lower prices for those like yourself that can then afford to buy the largest TP package for a pittance, while the rest of us have to spend 199.99 for what I remember to be around $30 for you so you can get things cheap and exploit the in game market to gear up easy.

Let it go.

[Phindecano]

I believe the overwhelming response on this the last time was there shouldn't be any regional pricing. I'm sorry but everyone gets the same game and should pay the same price. This isn't a social experiment where some support the gaming of others by subsidizing lower prices for those like yourself that can then afford to buy the largest TP package for a pittance, while the rest of us have to spend 199.99 for what I remember to be around $30 for you so you can get things cheap and exploit the in game market to gear up easy.

Let it go.

FYI, regional prices is a common practice among game developers and widely presented in Steam, including Turbine's products. For example, all the LOTRO's expansions are already available in Steam for a quite low price for CIS countries.

Btw, this topic wasn't created for another round of flood (or discussions on what is fair and what is unfair), but for a final blue name response only. Still waiting for an answer from Cordovan or QuarterMasterM. I believe it's not a big deal for them to write if it's not coming or is coming (and when then). Thank you.

[Cordovan]

Hey!

Months ago, while revamping LOTRO Store, developers introduced support for regional prices for Turbine Points. This feature was unveiled (and is still available) on Bullroarer during test weekends. As you can see on the screenshot, on Bullroarer I have prices listed in rubles since I play from Russia, and not in USD as on live servers.



As far as I understand, those regional prices are supposed to be different for different regions, just like Steam's regional prices system.

There were already some forum threads about it, blue names first confirmed it was coming, then some threads were deleted (?) and no further comments appeared.

Later Vyvyanne somewhere (not sure on the forums or during winter's stream, but it doesn't matter) mentioned that the company that was managing LOTRO Store was working to introduce this feature to live servers. And no news since then.

So here we are. Now we have new producer (hello, Severlin!) and new community manager (hello, Cordovan!). So it would be nice to get some news about regional prices for Turbine Points. The answer from QuarterMasterM would be fine too

Is this feature coming after all? When? If you don't have ETA, could you just give us some clue about approximate dates?

Many players from Russia (and other countries) are very interested and waiting the answer.

Thank you!

This is a feature that we would like to bring to the LOTRO Store in the future, but there are currently some technical limitations preventing us from doing it.

[Phindecano]

This is a feature that we would like to bring to the LOTRO Store in the future, but there are currently some technical limitations preventing us from doing it.

I see. Thank you for keeping us informed!

[Nydhogg]

So if this is implemented and I connect through a Russian VPN and pay in rubles I can get $200 worth of TP for only $30? (and say maybe $3 extra for the bank's exchange fee)

[Draconfier]

FYI, regional prices is a common practice among game developers and widely presented in Steam, including Turbine's products. For example, all the LOTRO's expansions are already available in Steam for a quite low price for CIS countries.

Btw, this topic wasn't created for another round of flood (or discussions on what is fair and what is unfair), but for a final blue name response only. Still waiting for an answer from Cordovan or QuarterMasterM. I believe it's not a big deal for them to write if it's not coming or is coming (and when then). Thank you.

I'm fine with buying the game at a regional price. What I have an issue with is TP purchases. So you decide you can afford the largest TP purchase and decide to churn those purchases to in game gold for best in slot gear with no work whatsoever by flooding the market with solvents. Or buying gifts or blessings of the valor and doing so through world chat. If the devs can figure out a way for regionally priced TP purchase to be boa then great, have at it. Otherwise I'm definitely against it, as well as most of the North Americans that would have to pay the full price. I'm currently VIP and have been for years, but I'm not going to continue to support this game for those like yourself, that bragged about buying several of these high priced packages per year on the old Russian servers, and wants to duplicate it again on the consolidated ones. If you can afford to buy multiples per year then obviously your not promoting this regional pricing for your countrymen that can't afford NA prices, so I'll put an end to that argument right now.

[Reximus]

I believe the overwhelming response on this the last time was there shouldn't be any regional pricing. I'm sorry but everyone gets the same game and should pay the same price. This isn't a social experiment where some support the gaming of others by subsidizing lower prices for those like yourself that can then afford to buy the largest TP package for a pittance, while the rest of us have to spend 199.99 for what I remember to be around $30 for you so you can get things cheap and exploit the in game market to gear up easy.

Let it go.

I don't think you have really thought this through, and being popular opinion doesn't make it right. In fact, correctness based on mass belief is a logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum.

With the rate of exchange (63 Rubles to 1 Dollar) you are the one getting the biggest TP package for cheap as a percentage of your income (buying power). Average monthly income for Aug 2016 in Russia was 34,094 Rubles ($541.32). Regional pricing would most likely be set at a percentage of income. $199.99 (12,596 Rubles) is about 5% of an average months earnings in the US, so I would expect a price more along the lines 1700 Rubles ($26) under a regional pricing model. The average American can't afford to spend 50% of their monthly income on video games, I'm not sure why you think other regions would be. Turbine could actually make more money with regional pricing since it increases player buying power in most regions, making it easier to commit funds to the game. This is why, as Cordovan states, they are working on regional pricing long term. Regional pricing gives those regional players no more buying power than you already have, so the idea they are getting something for cheap allowing them to exploit the market is really unfounded.

By not having regional pricing, but by allowing regional players to play the game, it makes it less affordable for some regions to actually pay anything into the game as different regions have different currency valuations, and different exchange rates, even if they have similar standards of living. This means regional players that are disadvantaged by currency valuation and/or exchange rates are more likely F2P. This means you are doing even more to subsidize them than if there was regional pricing that allowed them to have similar buying power. Regional pricing would make it easier for them to contribute something financially to the game, actually reducing the level of subsidy you are currently providing.

[Reximus]

I'm currently VIP and have been for years, but I'm not going to continue to support this game for those like yourself, that bragged about buying several of these high priced packages per year on the old Russian servers, and wants to duplicate it again on the consolidated ones. If you can afford to buy multiples per year then obviously your not promoting this regional pricing for your countrymen that can't afford NA prices, so I'll put an end to that argument right now.

Per your own quote they were able to afford it when it was on the Russian server which would have had Russian appropriate pricing, you didn't end the argument, you confirmed it.


Your argument is you rather Russian players give Turbine no money at all so you can fully subsidize their gameplay, instead of setting regional prices based on average income which would give everyone the same buying power and allow them afford to pay money to Turbine. Luckily Turbine has more sense then you do and is working on Regional pricing.

[Daniyel]

guys, lets be civil here. forums should be a constructive place. destructive threads/posts should be locked/deleted

[Montezuma's]

So if this is implemented and I connect through a Russian VPN and pay in rubles I can get $200 worth of TP for only $30? (and say maybe $3 extra for the bank's exchange fee)

Exactly. You are 100% correct.
If Turbine wants to give discounts to any nation or region then it should set the regional or national server. Wait, but there were Russian servers and they went bankrupt?
If anyone in turbine thinks that regional discounts will bring more money then they are mistaken. In the very short run probably, but in the mid and long run inequality will discourage to prolong subscription and turn off players.

[siipperi]

I remember one russian guy qqing that he cant affort purchasing multiple highest tier of tp packages anymore every few months. If one can purchase those several times per year without feeling horrible prices are obviously too low.

[Draconfier]

I remember one russian guy qqing that he cant affort purchasing multiple highest tier of tp packages anymore every few months. If one can purchase those several times per year without feeling horrible prices are obviously too low.

And this is that exact same guy. He's been on this crusade for over a year, but now under a different name. Following his posts both under this moniker and his old one, someone who's elitist attitude demands that Turbine give him what he wants. I get attacked for not standing up for the masses of Russia that can't afford this game, and yet he's not in it for them, only himself don't be fooled. Oh and what's his affiliation with Portal?

[Draconfier]

Per your own quote they were able to afford it when it was on the Russian server which would have had Russian appropriate pricing, you didn't end the argument, you confirmed it.


Your argument is you rather Russian players give Turbine no money at all so you can fully subsidize their gameplay, instead of setting regional prices based on average income which would give everyone the same buying power and allow them afford to pay money to Turbine. Luckily Turbine has more sense then you do and is working on Regional pricing.

No, my argument is that he's in it purely for his own benefit. Make regionally priced TP purchases such as solvents, gifts/blessings of Valar B.O.A. and I'm fine with them. But allowing someone that can obviously afford buying the highest priced TP package, multiple times per year or even sometimes per his own words per month, the equivalent of a North American buying it only once, and obviously he can afford the NA pricing. So what's his angle? Quick easy effortless instant pay to win gearing, possibly subsidizing his raid group as well? Where does it end, heck let's just add all the gear to the store and just skip playing altogether, instant gratification. In the end it's pay to win and something I'm emphatically against.

[Draconfier]

I don't think you have really thought this through, and being popular opinion doesn't make it right. In fact, correctness based on mass belief is a logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum.

With the rate of exchange (63 Rubles to 1 Dollar) you are the one getting the biggest TP package for cheap as a percentage of your income (buying power). Average monthly income for Aug 2016 in Russia was 34,094 Rubles ($541.32). Regional pricing would most likely be set at a percentage of income. $199.99 (12,596 Rubles) is about 5% of an average months earnings in the US, so I would expect a price more along the lines 1700 Rubles ($26) under a regional pricing model. The average American can't afford to spend 50% of their monthly income on video games, I'm not sure why you think other regions would be. Turbine could actually make more money with regional pricing since it increases player buying power in most regions, making it easier to commit funds to the game. This is why, as Cordovan states, they are working on regional pricing long term. Regional pricing gives those regional players no more buying power than you already have, so the idea they are getting something for cheap allowing them to exploit the market is really unfounded.

I have thought this through. I in fact know some retirees in the U.S. that live on this equivalent income in the U.S. on Social Security that still subscribe to the game. So where's their regional pricing? Should we enact having to submit our W2s to get price breaks? I understand your point about the masses not being able to afford TP on minimum incomes, but THIS GUY is not them, otherwise why brag about being able to spend X100 or even X1000 times what his average countryman can afford, multiple times per month/year?

[Cordovan]

So if this is implemented and I connect through a Russian VPN and pay in rubles I can get $200 worth of TP for only $30? (and say maybe $3 extra for the bank's exchange fee)

This is clearly one of the larger roadblocks to implementing this.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

Per your own quote they were able to afford it when it was on the Russian server which would have had Russian appropriate pricing, you didn't end the argument, you confirmed it.

My understanding that the reason the Russian server closed was that the operator was unable to make a financial go of the service any more. The fundamental problem was that they were selling Turbine Point packs at too low a price in Rubles. After did not collect enough Rubles each month to pay the bills. One of the problems would be converting Rubles to dollars to pay Turbine / Warner Brothers.

Turbine and Warner Brothers do not have any use for Rubles. Collecting Rubles means having to convert them to dollars and paying export them back to the USA. I am not sure how they are going to solve the problems:

1) People like me buying Turbine Points in Rubles. I can get around the region locks.

2) Folks in the region switching from Dollars to Rubles. Big loss now because the region price in Rubles converts to a lot fewer dollars.

3) Additional sales to folks in the region from people are going from no purchases to buying with Rubles.

Turbine and Warner Brothers are going to have to invest considerable dollars to put a stop to folks like me defeating the region locks. They are going to have to determine if they will make more dollars selling in Rubles to regional customers assuming they can find an affordable solution to people defeating region locks.

I often wonder how much Valve / Steam spent to develop their region technology. It must have cost them a lot of Euros. Steam has the advantage of a huge revenue stream due to the massive size of their product catalog. Whereas Turbine / Warner Brothers only has DDO and Lotro to pay for the regional feature.

[Phindecano]

My understanding that the reason the Russian server closed was that the operator was unable to make a financial go of the service any more. The fundamental problem was that they were selling Turbine Point packs at too low a price in Rubles. After did not collect enough Rubles each month to pay the bills. One of the problems would be converting Rubles to dollars to pay Turbine / Warner Brothers.

The reasons were a bit different though. First, on Russian servers you could buy a VIP subscription for some 650 Turbine Points per month. It meant that they got almost no revenue from quest packs since all the players could farm TPs to obtain VIP easily (and in the days when there wasn't level lock for reputation items it was even easier). Turbine stopped producing expansions, so it was a big loss for their revenue. I believe some 50% of Russian players were VIPs without paying a cent. Then, two years ago USD-RUB exchange rate changed significantly: it was a tough time for any business in Russia, yep.

Turbine and Warner Brothers are going to have to invest considerable dollars to put a stop to folks like me defeating the region locks. They are going to have to determine if they will make more dollars selling in Rubles to regional customers assuming they can find an affordable solution to people defeating region locks.

I often wonder how much Valve / Steam spent to develop their region technology. It must have cost them a lot of Euros. Steam has the advantage of a huge revenue stream due to the massive size of their product catalog. Whereas Turbine / Warner Brothers only has DDO and Lotro to pay for the regional feature.

It's obviously a problem. As far as I understand Steam uses region locks so you can't use a product in another region. Not sure if Turbine could introduce same approach.

[Urwendil]

How do Valve (Steam) handle it?

[Wanderv]

How do Valve (Steam) handle it?

by regional locks

I'd suggest to sell in Steam shop VIP packs with regional prices. TP packs could create some disbalances in economy as people pointed out here.

[Wanderv]

Exactly. You are 100% correct.
If Turbine wants to give discounts to any nation or region then it should set the regional or national server. Wait, but there were Russian servers and they went bankrupt?
If anyone in turbine thinks that regional discounts will bring more money then they are mistaken. In the very short run probably, but in the mid and long run inequality will discourage to prolong subscription and turn off players.

Russian servers weren't bankrupted. Even in the end when there were no update for more than 1,5 years theirs profit was nearly zero not negative (yep it's inside). The problem is that Mail.ru works with much more profitable Korean and browser games. Lotro just doesn't fit its standards. Also Turbine itself wasn't enthusiastic with continuing this project.

[Reximus]

No, my argument is that he's in it purely for his own benefit. Make regionally priced TP purchases such as solvents, gifts/blessings of Valar B.O.A. and I'm fine with them. But allowing someone that can obviously afford buying the highest priced TP package, multiple times per year or even sometimes per his own words per month, the equivalent of a North American buying it only once, and obviously he can afford the NA pricing. So what's his angle? Quick easy effortless instant pay to win gearing, possibly subsidizing his raid group as well? Where does it end, heck let's just add all the gear to the store and just skip playing altogether, instant gratification. In the end it's pay to win and something I'm emphatically against.

So people with high disposable income have an unfair advantage and should be prevented from buying TP. Seems to me that should apply to all regions then. Turbine hopefully will start banning wealthy people immediately.

[Reximus]

I remember one russian guy qqing that he cant affort purchasing multiple highest tier of tp packages anymore every few months. If one can purchase those several times per year without feeling horrible prices are obviously too low.

Bill Gates can afford it, Turbine better raise the prices! The Large TP pack should be priced at $10 Billion USD.

As far as hobbies go, some people are more invested and are willing to spend more. That doesn't mean that prices are too low, it just means that some people have different priorities then you do.