Muster in the Wardens Subforum

[Gandolf_TheOld]

Sindhol wrote:

“(2) The gambit system is great, but gambits with cooldowns are kind of self-defeating.”

Agree with the above. Building a gambit is a cooldown in and of itself.

[Osglinthor]

Sindhol wrote:

“(2) The gambit system is great, but gambits with cooldowns are kind of self-defeating.”

Agree with the above. Building a gambit is a cooldown in and of itself.

This is wrong way to go about it. Gambit build speed should be increased overall, and there is no way to include decision making and balance class properly without gambits with cooldowns(I encourage everyone including dev to check invoker in dota2 and how it was improved over years considering warden is based on it). Now this doesnt mean every gambit should have CD, but select few definitly should, gambits that could deal high upfront damage/cash out dots or hots for buffs, provide -incoming dmg buffs for tanking similar way shield tactics works(granted not much use since in recent times you cant predict stun and in those situations LM usualy covers you). This would make rotation way more fun with higher skill cap compared to where we land with masteries CD and no room for decision making wich red warden was since forever. Situation is bit better with yellow line at the moment and yet people hate on it, now sure STM rng can be bad sometimes but rotation is still far superior and actualy makes you think about masteries usage unlike red and blue. Trough tracking bleeds. Its not the best and could use improvments but reverting to static red line rotation wich will be result of no CD gambits and removal of STM(wich is 99% going to happen based on dev replies in discord and way certain people argue about it when they dont even use it properly) is a big mistake.

Example of top of my head would be making QS single target, increasing its damage and increasing damage of power attack,mighty blow,unering strike. Then you increase damage of WoS/Onslaught and Add CD of ~10 15 sec to them. Balance damage where they have higher brust>But delay your sustained damage. They end up being used for fast target switch, you get to play around with different mob morale pool if they are worth using immediatly and so on. Just one of quick examples that can work by tuning existing skills, and you avoid need of removing battle memory, avoid having to slow down gambit build speed in order to prevent wos/onslaught spam. And in same way you fix a lot of tanking issues. With strong effect gambits gated behind CD to prevent their spam and leave room for fluid gameplay.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

This is wrong way to go about it. Gambit build speed should be increased overall, and there is no way to include decision making and balance class properly without gambits with cooldowns(I encourage everyone including dev to check invoker in dota2 and how it was improved over years considering warden is based on it). Now this doesnt mean every gambit should have CD, but select few definitly should, gambits that could deal high upfront damage/cash out dots or hots for buffs, provide -incoming dmg buffs for tanking similar way shield tactics works(granted not much use since in recent times you cant predict stun and in those situations LM usualy covers you). This would make rotation way more fun with higher skill cap compared to where we land with masteries CD and no room for decision making wich red warden was since forever. Situation is bit better with yellow line at the moment and yet people hate on it, now sure STM rng can be bad sometimes but rotation is still far superior and actualy makes you think about masteries usage unlike red and blue. Trough tracking bleeds. Its not the best and could use improvments but reverting to static red line rotation wich will be result of no CD gambits and removal of STM(wich is 99% going to happen based on dev replies in discord and way certain people argue about it when they dont even use it properly) is a big mistake.

Example of top of my head would be making QS single target, increasing its damage and increasing damage of power attack,mighty blow,unering strike. Then you increase damage of WoS/Onslaught and Add CD of ~10 15 sec to them. Balance damage where they have higher brust>But delay your sustained damage. They end up being used for fast target switch, you get to play around with different mob morale pool if they are worth using immediatly and so on. Just one of quick examples that can work by tuning existing skills, and you avoid need of removing battle memory, avoid having to slow down gambit build speed in order to prevent wos/onslaught spam. And in same way you fix a lot of tanking issues. With strong effect gambits gated behind CD to prevent their spam and leave room for fluid gameplay.

How is the Warden, a melee class, released in Feb 2009, based upon the DOTA2 Invoker, a magic user, when the development of DOTA 2 began in 2009 and was released in 2013?

One could think you have your dates mixed up.

[Osglinthor]

How is the Warden, a melee class, released in Feb 2009, based upon the DOTA2 Invoker, a magic user, when the development of DOTA 2 began in 2009 and was released in 2013?

One could think you have your dates mixed up.

You are ignoring dota1 https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Version_6.10. Dev also confirmed that invoker was inspiration for warden, even tho I have learned that recently I have always compared ward to invoker. Tho where one got improved over time warden is stuck in quite bad state gameplay wise since release it seems.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

This is wrong way to go about it. Gambit build speed should be increased overall, and there is no way to include decision making and balance class properly without gambits with cooldowns(I encourage everyone including dev to check invoker in dota2 and how it was improved over years considering warden is based on it). Now this doesnt mean every gambit should have CD, but select few definitly should, gambits that could deal high upfront damage/cash out dots or hots for buffs, provide -incoming dmg buffs for tanking similar way shield tactics works(granted not much use since in recent times you cant predict stun and in those situations LM usualy covers you). This would make rotation way more fun with higher skill cap compared to where we land with masteries CD and no room for decision making wich red warden was since forever. Situation is bit better with yellow line at the moment and yet people hate on it, now sure STM rng can be bad sometimes but rotation is still far superior and actualy makes you think about masteries usage unlike red and blue. Trough tracking bleeds. Its not the best and could use improvments but reverting to static red line rotation wich will be result of no CD gambits and removal of STM(wich is 99% going to happen based on dev replies in discord and way certain people argue about it when they dont even use it properly) is a big mistake.

Example of top of my head would be making QS single target, increasing its damage and increasing damage of power attack,mighty blow,unering strike. Then you increase damage of WoS/Onslaught and Add CD of ~10 15 sec to them. Balance damage where they have higher brust>But delay your sustained damage. They end up being used for fast target switch, you get to play around with different mob morale pool if they are worth using immediatly and so on. Just one of quick examples that can work by tuning existing skills, and you avoid need of removing battle memory, avoid having to slow down gambit build speed in order to prevent wos/onslaught spam. And in same way you fix a lot of tanking issues. With strong effect gambits gated behind CD to prevent their spam and leave room for fluid gameplay.

You are ignoring dota1 https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Version_6.10. Dev also confirmed that invoker was inspiration for warden, even tho I have learned that recently I have always compared ward to invoker. Tho where one got improved over time warden is stuck in quite bad state gameplay wise since release it seems.

Highlight added for emphasis.

You said dota2. Now you say dota1. Which is it?

Ok a Dev said – which Dev, when, got a link to support this? Otherwise, it is just something you pulled from some dark region of yours.

Your link goes to what looks like update notes, does mention an Invoker, but not much else identifiable to the dota Invoker class.

Even in dota the Invoker (first appearance, not even part of WoW) is a magic user, and dota is a MOBA mod for WoW. While LOTRO's Warden is a melee class and is part of an MMORPG. Looks to me to still be an apples to oranges comparison.

[Osglinthor]

Highlight added for emphasis.

You said dota2. Now you say dota1. Which is it?

Ok a Dev said – which Dev, when, got a link to support this? Otherwise, it is just something you pulled from some dark region of yours.

Your link goes to what looks like update notes, does mention an Invoker, but not much else identifiable to the dota Invoker class.

Even in dota the Invoker (first appearance, not even part of WoW) is a magic user, and dota is a MOBA mod for WoW. While LOTRO's Warden is a melee class and is part of an MMORPG. Looks to me to still be an apples to oranges comparison.

Come on man, I said to check Invoker IN dota2, and to see how it improved over the years. I never said it was first released in dota2. I linked you patch notes where you clearly can see exact date of first Invoker release. And I have no itention of diging up discord messege that has link to exact dev statement that invoker was inspiration for warden considering you dont bother to read or think about what I said in the first place. It is completly irelevent that invoker is magic user or that he is in moba they literaly use the same system.

[CasualActual]

1. Similar to the captain class yellow line, would be cool if capstone for blue made warden self heals raid wide.
2. I presume never surrender is still broken in that bosses can bypass it and kill the warden before receiving the heal. Hopefully this can get fixed.
3. Very frustrating to play the warden when the server is lagging, which is very frequent. I think you could reduce the frustration here by removing the cd on masteries.