We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 4 of 4
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,521

    Hierarchy of the Maiar and "The Power ranking" System

    “Powerful” is such a difficult word. Because what does that mean, exactly? Are we talking military power? “Magical” power? Political power? Sauron was definitely a powerful Maiar, but was he the most powerful? I don’t have a definite answer for you, but I don’t think he was. Below I’ve listed the most powerful of the Maiar, and I’ll just leave it up to you to decide which order to rank them in:

    ARIEN

    Who is she? Arien was a spirit of fire who once cared for Laurelin, one of the Two Trees of Valinor. After the trees were destroyed, she became the Maia who carries the sun across the sky each day.
    Claim to fame: Arien was one of the few “spirits of fire” that Morgoth hadn’t won over to his side. In fact, in another version of the Silmarillion, Morgoth tries to make Arien his wife, and ends up killing her instead. In The Silmarillion, she described as: “Too bright were the eyes of Arien for even the Eldar to look on; she was as a naked flame, terrible in the fullness of her splendor.”
    EONWE

    Who is he? Manwe’s herald and banner-bearer. Considered one of the two leaders of the Maiar (Ilmare, Varda’s hand-maiden, being the other.) Later in the First Age, he leads the army from Valinor that fights in the War of Wrath.
    Claim to fame: Eonwe is described as having great military/fighting power. In The Silmarillion, it’s said his “might in arms is surpassed by none in Arda.” He’s strong enough to capture Morgoth by the end of the War of Wrath, and in some versions of the Dagor Dagorath, he’s even the one to kill Morgoth in the end.
    MELIAN

    Who is she? Though she originally served in the gardens of Lorien in Valinor, Melian was more famous for her time as Queen of the Sindar in Doriath.
    Clame to fame: During the First Age, Melian kept Doriath safe from Morgoth and his armies through the creation and maintenance of a sort of forcefield, called the Girdle of Melian. For about 500 years she managed to keep all enemies out (with a couple very special exceptions, but Fate got in the way for those two.) And while it’s never mentioned whether Morgoth or Sauron themselves tried to break through the Girdle, it means something that they never even tried.
    OSSE

    Who is he? One of Ulmo’s servants, Osse tends to focus on coastal waters and storms. He was nearly recruited by Morgoth in the beginning, but was saved from making that mistake by his wife Uinen. Osse had a good relationship with the Teleri elves, and taught them a lot about ships.
    Clame to fame: The reason Morgoth tried to recruite Osse in the first place is because he “hated the sea, for he could not subdue it.” If Morgoth wanted to recruit Osse because he had skills that Morgoth did not, it should be assumed that he was pretty powerful.
    SAURON

    Who is he? Originally a servant of Aule, Sauron started following Morgoth instead pretty early on. He was considered to be Morgoth’s strongest servant, and was responsible for a lot of evil in Middle Earth, even before Morgoth’s defeat.
    Claim to fame: When saying that he once served Aule, Tolkien tells us that Sauron “remained mighty in the lore of that people.” To be remembered in any way positively, after all the evil he did, tells me that he must have been pretty impressive. And in the later ages, he causes enough trouble to prompt the Valar to send the Istari to Middle Earth to deal with him.
    THE ISTARI

    Who are they? Five Maiar who were sent to Middle Earth to combat Sauron. They were sent with limited powers, though, so they’re kind of a strange case.
    Claim to fame: Because of the limit put on their power, I don’t think that any of the Istari could really contend for “most powerful” while in Middle Earth. Many have argued that, in their original forms, they might have been as powerful, if not more, than Sauron. But we have so little information on this that it’s hard to say (if interested, though, see this post.) Aside from traditional, military power, though, it’s worth noting that Olorin (later known as Gandalf) was directly identified as “wisest of the Maiar.”

    SOURCES: The Silmarillion, The Histories of Middle Earth (various volumes)

    I shall choose Sauron. There are plentiful reasons, Some shall be listed down below;

    ~ Sauron's power was in the ability to corrupt, to make people think that they could achieve/deserve more. That basic lust is what drew Orcs, trolls, evil Men, etc. To him. The fear of facing destruction by these forces made Sauron powerful.

    ~ Sauron was the greatest of Morgoth's Servants (Prime Dark Lord) and has accumulated vast knowledge from his true Master and even Vala,Aule.

    ~ Barad-Dûr was the greatest fortress ever built since the Fall of Angband. 600 years of the construction with the power of the Ring. I vastly out-powered anything left within Midde-Earth , Minas-Tith palled in comparison.


    ~ Sauron himself is a major example to the contrary. Sauron is by nature “only” a Maia. But he studied uner the tutelage of Morgoth (the original Satan figure in Tokien’s creation) for thousands of years, and when Morgoth was banished from the physical plane, Sauron eventually gathered what remained of Morgoth’s forces and thereby made himself nearly as powerful as Morgoth himself.

    This is why Sauron is unquestionably more powerful than anyone but a Vala… he is more powerful than any of the other Maia….. UNLESS they get possession of his One Ring and have the time to absorb all its strength and learn how to use it. Which is his greatest fear.

    ~ Sauron was indeed the most powerful of the maiar and what made him excessively more powerful than any other being under the valar was the power he was given by Melkor. Remember the ballrogs were maiar too, so take the mightiest (Sauron) and add the extra might of power Morgoth passed on to him.

    ~ Sauron was able to defeat both Gil-galad and Elendil , the last of the High Kings of Noldor and High King of Gondor and Arnor.

    Finnally, towards the end of the war, the Elves and Men passed through into Mordor and laid siege to Barad-dûr, where Gil-galad and Elendil dueled Sauron himself. During their struggle, Gil-galad and Elendil inflicted enough mortal wounds on the Dark Lord to destroy his body, though they received terrible wounds in return. This sacrifice allowed Isildur to sever the Ring from the Dark Lord's hand. But Gil-galad received severe burns from "the heat of Sauron's hand", and so he passed on to the Halls of Mandos

    ~ Sauron was defeated though sheer madness,luck and perhaps the destiny itself. Or there is such thing as destiny or pure coincidence, random events? Its up for reader to decide,nevertheless re-read the final chapters. It was unbelievably close. Sauron's power was to great to overcome by might of the arms or brute force. Siege of Barad-Dur was impossible. The Fortress was nigh impenetrable. Only the Intervention of Vala could have crush its foundations other than melting the One-Ring.

    ~ Sauron has survived though everything which resulted in gaining of near incomparable amount of experience with the exception of very few other Maia. The only weakness I can find in Sauron was Wisdom,overconfidence and only the most wisest could have defeated him in the every, think about for a second?

    Eru the One had the very strong reason to bring back Gandalf. Without the Aid of Istari it could have been the definite end. It was the Wisdom and the power of Istari. It couldn't have been the other way. Not that I COULD, but it WOULD! Eru knew that well. Questioning Eru's Wisdom and choices is unthinkable.All the eyes were pointed at Gandalf,They have all feared power of the Wizard,friends or foes. Gandalf the Grey , Later the "restored" Gandalf the White. He literally guided the Free peoples of Middle-Earth. Gandalf aided the Fellowship safety,decades ago he did the same with Thorin's company in the quest to reclaim the Erebor. It leads to Istari and two little hobbits , but do not exclude Smeagol(Gollum) It was a time race. The army at Black gate, Sauron have outnumbered them 10:1 It was unbelievably tight. I could go on for three pages...

    ~ Sauron was "Jack of all Trades" As his Master Bauglir. He was master smith,manipulator,deceiver,cor rupter, very potent sorcerer ,combatant,tactical genius. The combination of cunning,vast armies on his disposal and versatility as well as the untold amount of suffering,fear,despair,anguish and prolonged suffering he caused to free People of Middle-Earth I shall easy place Sauron as the most powerful of Maiar.





    Extra for those souls seeking Advanced Knowledge;



    God is the most powerful entity in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings universe. The Elvish name for him is actually Eru Ilúvatar, meaning “the one, father of all.” So the question becomes: Who is the second-most powerful being?

    Originally, it was Melkor, “he who arises in might,” the most powerful of the Ainur (or angels). But Melkor became arrogant and saw himself as superior to the other angels, and rebelled against God. Like Satan in our own world, he fell from grace and became the spirit of evil, known as Morgoth (meaning “dark enemy”).

    Morgoth spent thousands of years corrupting the Earth and making many evil things. But this slowly dispersed his natural power into the fabric of reality, so that he himself became diminished and weakened on a personal level. (This was not something he'd planned or expected.) Eventually, he was weak enough that he could be overthrown and cast out of the universe into the infinite Void.

    Sauron was originally one of Morgoth's most powerful and trusted servants. After the overthrow of his master, he set up on his own.

    Not all the angels rebelled against God. Some of them agreed to enter into the world, to help prepare things for the coming of humans and elves.

    Fourteen of these angels were respected by the others as more powerful, more wise, and more holy than the rest of them, so they became their leaders. They were given the title Valar, which means “the powerful ones.” (Melkor had originally been counted as one of the Valar, too, until his fall from grace became known.) Each of the Valar had a specific area of interest within creation and attracted followers who shared that interest from among the lesser angels (who became known as the Maiar, meaning “the fair ones”).

    The most powerful of the Valar other than Morgoth were Manwë (meaning “blessed one”), who became their king, and his wife, Varda (“sublime one”) who became queen. Manwë's area of dominion is the air and the winds, and the Great Eagles are his servants and messengers. Varda is the lady of light, and she made the stars. The elves of Middle-earth call her Elbereth, which means “star-queen.”

    Manwë and Varda have less raw power than Morgoth, if by power you mean the ability to change and destroy; but they had more authority and wisdom, which is a different sort of power. After the fall and banishment of Morgoth at the end of the First Age, their power is now unchallenged. However, being wise, they do not interfere much in the affairs of mortals, and when they do it's only in a very subtle and indirect way. When Gandalf makes cryptic hints about how things were “meant to happen” or that something was “not mere chance,” he's referring to this kind of subtle assistance.

    Gandalf himself, incidentally, is a personal envoy of Manwë sent to rally the people of Middle-earth to fight Sauron. His job is not to do their fighting for them, however, reflecting the Valar's hands-off approach.

    Old Tom Bombadil is a powerful fellow Blue is his jacket and his boots are yellow What ring? Old Tom just plays with it, like it was something that came out of a Cracker Jacks box.

    It should also be said that Tolkien did not really think in terms of video game–style levels of power. Power to him was an intangible thing that can take many forms, and is not the same as raw strength or destructive ability. Tulkas, one of the Valar, is the strongest and the best at fighting; but he's certainly not the most powerful among them, and he readily accepts Manwë's leadership.

    Likewise, Morgoth at his height was the most powerful nondivine entity in Arda; but even he was defeated in a fight by Ungoliant, who could only do one thing (engulf and consume things in darkness), but could do it really, really well.

    To Tolkien, the power to resist, the power to stay true to your goals, the power to inspire other people to follow you, were all equally or more important than the power to win battles or use “magic” to change the world.
    Last edited by Ninky; Dec 23 2017 at 04:43 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,521
    Whereas Morgoth was bent on absolute destruction {i.e. the killing of the Trees of the Valar}, Sauron wanted to ENSLAVE, and thus prolong the suffering of sentient beings. Sauron had just a fraction of Morgoth's power, he was practically unequalled in the entire world.Consider the follwing Randir ~ Morgoth, for all his "God" status, was unable to ultimately master the dwarves, elves and men. Sauron, for at least a little while and as a lesser being ngeniously insinuated the Rings into their lives. He deserves some credit for doing more harm with less ultimate power than Morgoth. Gorthaur the Great fashioned the tool which would allow him to dominate and master the minds of others where the words and will of his former master ultimately failed. You can even argue that he had more malevolence than Morgoth,Prime Dark Lord. Sauron was not nearly as powerful but at the time of the films the world's magic is almost died.The Eldar for instance were leaving Middle Earth and the dwarves were locking themselves away in their mountains. The first races of Men, who lived hundreds of years, were almost died out (Aragorn was one of the last) and a lesser race of men, with the life span of you and I, were the most common folk that we see. Even the hobbits were disappearing. So while Sauron had just a fraction of Morgoth's power, he was practically unequalled in the entire world.Gandalf even says that Sauron is not the true evil, only its emissary. Still, without Mithrandir's help and Eru's interventions, Sauron would have defeated the West, the Elves would have abandoned Middle Earth and all would have fallen to Sauron's rule which would probably have continued forever. Morgoth, according to Tolkien, would probably have gone into a nihilist rage and destroyed anything and everything. Tolkien does say that Morgoth fell and lost a lot of power over time so that by the end he was in a sense weaker than Sauron. Morgoth lost the ability to shed his physical form and was trapped in the shape of a tall, giant Dark Lord. Sauron too lost some powers but as long as the One Ring existed, could never really be killed. If he had regained the Ring, he would have been unbeatable.

    The summary:

    Morgoth was the greatest of all the Ainur:

    "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor"

    The Silmarillion, Ainulindalë

    In comparison Sauron was a Maia but he was among the greatest Maiar, The Greatest in a terrible way I a terrible way,from point point of observation ~

    Sauron survived two corporeal destructions. Even after diminishment from expenditure of will in dominating inferiors and the loss of his Ring, Sauron was still able to come back in the Third Age and be the most powerful force in Middle Earth.

    Sauron single-handedly brought about the utter destruction of Numenor with guile and force of will.


    In the beginning he {Sauron} was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people.

    The Silmarillion, Valaquenta

    "Sauron, greatest and most terrible of the servants of Morgoth, who in the Sindarin tongue was named Gorthaur".

    The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin.

    He {Sauron} became the greatest and most trusted of the servants of the Enemy, and the most perilous.

    The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

    {Sauron} of the same kind as Gandalf and Saruman, but of a far higher order.

    The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #183

    There can be no doubt that Morgoth at his greatest was vastly more powerful than Sauron ever was, to the point that no comparison could be drawn.

    As time went on Morgoth gradually grew weaker and eventually both Morgoth and Sauron were very close in terms of innate power (end of the First Age).

    Sauron at his zenith {Second Age} had effectively increased his power by the creation of the Ring:

    While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced.

    The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #131

    And as per Tolkien’s own words, Sauron had become more powerful than his master Morgoth was at the end of the First Age:

    Sauron was greater, effectively, in the Second Age, than Morgoth at the end of the First.

    HOME, Morgoth's Ring, Myths Transformed.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    34
    Great stuff great read thanks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    250
    Quote Originally Posted by 1stvermont View Post
    Great stuff great read thanks.
    Mind the facts though, such as 'kill Morgoth' and note that just about every passage has a dodgy line or two that just has no base.
    You may wish to read this stuff instead (except the Letters, that was tedious enough at age 15 and I don't wish that upon anyone).
    You can't rank POWER in this manner like some DnD stats character sheet because Narrative is just that. Stuff happens because Story requirements.

    Most of this looks to be taken out of empty air.
    It's an advert for a blog. Pasted.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload