Lifetime Account Members Thread

[SabrielofLorien]

well here's my 2 silver worth...

There were loads of threads about this when F2P came along - all got closed but it comes down to a few view points.

1. It's OK for gasoline to cost XXX because you don't have to drive anywhere - you can walk.

2. It's OK for housing to cost XXX because you can always camp out under a bridge and only a fool would buy a house.

3. It's OK for something to cost XXX when it costs ZZZ to produce because you are only the consumer and the CEO needs a new Dacha.

4. Hey, you! You got a deal that no one else got! Insider Trader! <grrrr>

I too am a founder and lifer... I will play this game until The End.... but I am disappointed that I don't get Everything as a FreeBees.

But for now, I don't have to play for Warner's CEO's vacations or at least until they revoke LifeTime (which they can do anytime they want).

So is the glass half-full or half-empty???

It all depends on the size of the glass....

[tessathecat]

I think that's the big issue that the lifers/subs have with the way things are going. If you were in that group you had 100% access to everything before the F2P move, now Turbine is moving more things to store only so you are being forced to use the store and burn through the 500TP per month. And that goes against what Turbine claimed when they were first making the move to F2P that the game would not change for its VIP players. Having to spend additional money for what you used to get as part of your sub is a pretty big change. Waiting for TP to build up is fine if you have the time to wait for it, but Turbine keeps adding stuff so you may not have the time to wait for it. Also how are they going to work expansions, will they be sold in the store only? Will they offer a special points pack for lifer/subs so it won't be any different than buying the expansion in a store or will Turbine make the expansion cost an odd amount of points forcing you to buy extra points you may never use?

You did NOT have access to everything before F2P. Back then if you wanted shared storage or extra character slots, you paid $20 for the Adventurer's Pack. There was a deal for awhile that bundled it with SoM but after that the only way to get it was to come up with the twenty bucks. (And you didn't get SoM.) You can bet that if Turbine hadn't gone with F2P, there would have been more such packages. We would be paying $10-$20 a pop for a package that include wardrobe and other things we perhaps didn't want. Now Turbine has made it so that we can get these and many other things without paying for anything other than our subscription if we so choose. Yes, you might have to save your points over a few months to get what you want and, yes, you might have to level alts to earn more points in game. But that is the price Turbine has decided to charge for the privilege of buying things from the store without paying them any extra real money.

[Reppin4DaChrist]

Anyone complaining about this lifetime thing is ridiculous.

My lifetime subscription I believe hasn't played for itself yet,

But regardless it was probably one of the best investments I've made in my life. That's right, in my life.

In reality, this isn't free to play.

All it is, is a free trial. Once they get to a certain level, they have to pay for stuff. Plenty of stuff.

Either that, or they pay the monthly fee!

So, without buying the lifetime subscription, I would have to either pay 15 bucks a month, or pay quite a bit for other stuff.

Instead, I get everything free, I get to play in monster play, and all the features that paying players get, and then they pay me.

So if I saved up enough points, I could buy the expansions. I could get everything free, that everyone else has to pay for?

The only thing that really changed, is more people get these "free trials", they pay a little less if they buy quest packs (But they get a lot less in return),

and I get free turbine points (which means since free to play, I now have either extra revives, or I can get all my deeds done without even grinding, or I can buy the expansions)

I don't see how free stuff is a problem. They have to pay, we lifers don't. This is an awesome deal.

[auximenes]

now...if these new features were added as part of a content update before f2p...all lifers/sub'er would get em free of charge...everyone else (free trialers, first monthers) would have to pony up money to get em.

Before F2P, Lifers had to pay for big add-ons, like shared storage. We still have to buy those add-ons, except now if we're patient we can buy them with our 500 TP allowance, only buying during sales, and lately using coupons to mitigate the damage to your TP stash. We can even save and buy the expansions strictly with TP's. In some ways Lifers are in a better position than pre-F2P.

[Takekaze]

well here's my 2 silver worth...

There were loads of threads about this when F2P came along - all got closed but it comes down to a few view points.

1. It's OK for gasoline to cost XXX because you don't have to drive anywhere - you can walk.

2. It's OK for housing to cost XXX because you can always camp out under a bridge and only a fool would buy a house.

3. It's OK for something to cost XXX when it costs ZZZ to produce because you are only the consumer and the CEO needs a new Dacha.

4. Hey, you! You got a deal that no one else got! Insider Trader! <grrrr>

I too am a founder and lifer... I will play this game until The End.... but I am disappointed that I don't get Everything as a FreeBees.

But for now, I don't have to play for Warner's CEO's vacations or at least until they revoke LifeTime (which they can do anytime they want).

So is the glass half-full or half-empty???

It all depends on the size of the glass....

Entitlement generation much?

I love how people always hack away as if companies do things like that only because some CEO wants something for himself.

Wow. I always wonder how many of the people who do that have ever worked outside in the real world in a private enterprise. Or how many of them have ever worked at all.

Oh yeah, those evil CEOs (tm) and those evil private enterprises (tm). Heck, why not complain about those evil banks (tm) as well, and maybe, while we're at it, about the evil Jews (tm), too?


I know the Jews aren't evil, but that part ALWAYS comes up from those who scream against all those evil (tm) things. Always. And I'm sick and tired of all the spoiled brats who think they're entitled to everything for free simply because they exist or, some time ago, paid a few bucks (yeah, I count 200 USD as a few bucks, sue me, that's one of the things where having a decent job comes in handy.)


The only thing I regret about lifetime membership is that I should have gotten one or two more back then. And those 500 points per month aren't enough for me anyway, so I have to buy more either way. I mean, I had to get all those backpacks. INNLEAGUE SURVIVAL KIT! SWEET! Not to mention the stats, storage addons, etc.

Whoever had the idea for the innleague survival kit is a genius. It's only lacking one thing: it has no booze!

[Nymphonic]

I'm a broke lifetimer so needing stuff from the store doesn't affect me at all. I have no $$$ so I don't worry!

Boy, I'm glad I bought lifetime 3 years ago when I had the $$$. Best $199 I spent in my entire life.

[trancejeremy]

I'm a broke lifetimer so needing stuff from the store doesn't affect me at all. I have no $$$ so I don't worry!

Boy, I'm glad I bought lifetime 3 years ago when I had the $$$. Best $199 I spent in my entire life.

I'm the opposite. I really really wish I had that $200 back since I paid for the lifetime sub to get away from F2P games.

And the recent update is exactly what I was getting away from - having to use the cash shop extensively to get good endgame gear.

[RedlineJunkie]

You did NOT have access to everything before F2P. Back then if you wanted shared storage or extra character slots, you paid $20 for the Adventurer's Pack. There was a deal for awhile that bundled it with SoM but after that the only way to get it was to come up with the twenty bucks. (And you didn't get SoM.) You can bet that if Turbine hadn't gone with F2P, there would have been more such packages. We would be paying $10-$20 a pop for a package that include wardrobe and other things we perhaps didn't want. Now Turbine has made it so that we can get these and many other things without paying for anything other than our subscription if we so choose. Yes, you might have to save your points over a few months to get what you want and, yes, you might have to level alts to earn more points in game. But that is the price Turbine has decided to charge for the privilege of buying things from the store without paying them any extra real money.

Yeah the irony is that if the game had not went F2P then I would have kept spending money on the future expansions (and things like the adventure pack). Now that I'm sitting on 8,000+ Turbine Points they have given me and I've earned through deeds, I don't expect to ever have to spend another dime on the game.

[starscolapse]

Entitlement generation much?

I love how people always hack away as if companies do things like that only because some CEO wants something for himself.

Wow. I always wonder how many of the people who do that have ever worked outside in the real world in a private enterprise. Or how many of them have ever worked at all.

Oh yeah, those evil CEOs (tm) and those evil private enterprises (tm). Heck, why not complain about those evil banks (tm) as well, and maybe, while we're at it, about the evil Jews (tm), too?


I know the Jews aren't evil, but that part ALWAYS comes up from those who scream against all those evil (tm) things. Always. And I'm sick and tired of all the spoiled brats who think they're entitled to everything for free simply because they exist or, some time ago, paid a few bucks (yeah, I count 200 USD as a few bucks, sue me, that's one of the things where having a decent job comes in handy.)


The only thing I regret about lifetime membership is that I should have gotten one or two more back then. And those 500 points per month aren't enough for me anyway, so I have to buy more either way. I mean, I had to get all those backpacks. INNLEAGUE SURVIVAL KIT! SWEET! Not to mention the stats, storage addons, etc.

Whoever had the idea for the innleague survival kit is a genius. It's only lacking one thing: it has no booze!

I know right no booze You evil Turbine!!!.. Though i cant agree that 200 USD is a few bucks. But i have to agree with you it has been well worth the money for me , my husband and my mom. To be honest the only thing i was really hoping to get free this last go round was an extra cosmetic slot LOL only cause I own like 1 of every kind (almost) cosmetic item..

I just don't understand where spending 200/300 dollars on lifetime makes people think they have to get everything free.. *shrugs*

[Darej]

I know right no booze You evil Turbine!!!.. Though i cant agree that 200 USD is a few bucks. But i have to agree with you it has been well worth the money for me , my husband and my mom. To be honest the only thing i was really hoping to get free this last go round was an extra cosmetic slot LOL only cause I own like 1 of every kind (almost) cosmetic item..

I just don't understand where spending 200/300 dollars on lifetime makes people think they have to get everything free.. *shrugs*

but its not just lifers getting hosed...its sub'ers too

stuff that would have been gratis pre-f2p are now being used to wring every bit of coin they can get from lifers and subers

they are making it so that there will eventually be no difference between lifer/suber and freeium

[Zarador]

I'm the opposite. I really really wish I had that $200 back since I paid for the lifetime sub to get away from F2P games.

And the recent update is exactly what I was getting away from - having to use the cash shop extensively to get good endgame gear.

So you're saying that you joined up 14 months ago and now realized that you only broke even on the life time subscription? I'm guessing that since 14 months would amount to about $210 in subscription fees. Even at $10 a month that would only cover 20 months of the game and I see a join date of July 2008.

Curious also as to what f2p MMO games there were back in the time that you joined that you were getting away from? Also could you provide some examples of "End Game" gear that is available in the cash shop? Can't be the relic packs since anyone with some time could grind away at relics. I know it's not the raid or instance gear, don't see any of that out there. Did I miss the addition of 1st age weapons?

[Zarador]

but its not just lifers getting hosed...its sub'ers too

stuff that would have been gratis pre-f2p are now being used to wring every bit of coin they can get from lifers and subers

they are making it so that there will eventually be no difference between lifer/suber and freeium

1. It's Premium, not freeium. People willing to pay as they go instead of subscribing are not getting a free ride. Lifers who played from 14-20 months are the ones with the free bus pass. That was the option back then, now the option is Premium play.
2. If there is no difference for a subscription plan and a Premium plan, guess what? You have the option to choose the one best for you. Getting a choice is not getting hosed.
3. You're also assuming that they would have pushed all these items into the game with little potential for additional revenue. Fact is:
   
   • DDO was failing, they added this system to DDO.
   • DDO was resurrected by the changes, they added more content and items.
   • It worked well in DDO and they applied a similar option plan here.
   • Revenue wise, it worked here and now we are seeing changes to this game in that direction.
   • No upward swing in revenue = no incentive to offer more for less.
4. Of course they are trying to get every penny that they can from lifers and subscriptions. $10 a month and "0" dollars a month does not generate a whole lot of revenue when your not the 800lb gorilla in the corner. I far rather have options than see the game raise it's fixed price to $19.99 a month with no options to use the store. I can avoid buying from the store; I can't avoid paying a higher subscription rate if they raised it and I enjoy the game.

I also find it ironic that there are some life time account holders out there concerned that Turbine might be giving away too much for free. Then complaining about Turbine offering them a chance to purchase optional items that they desire at a premium on an account that stopped generating revenue some time ago.

As an interesting aside, one of our vendors to our cafe gave us an option last week. Change our weekly delivery date by a day so they can combine it with other orders in the area or pay a fuel surcharge. I rather like having options that keep the price down instead of just being subjected to a higher cost.

[Darej]

If there is no difference for a subscription plan and a Premium plan, guess what? You have the option to choose the one best for you. Getting a choice is not getting hosed.

ah..but there is the rub....

VIP is touted and being the BEST when f2p started...adverts everywhere for it...

so....if there is no difference...is that not a scam?

[Zarador]

ah..but there is the rub....

VIP is touted and being the BEST when f2p started...adverts everywhere for it...

so....if there is no difference...is that not a scam?

But there is a difference. The question that one must decide based on that play style is if that difference is worth $10 a month or not.

My significant other and I choose to remain VIP because we like what we have as well as the option to use the store for optional items and perks. Our son chooses premium because he seldom plays and has enough points from being a VIP in the past as well as extra perks on his established characters to make Premium a better choice. One family; two different choices.

Touting it as the best option? Of course it's logical that Turbine will do that since a VIP is likely to also spend money in the store, I know our family does. That's not a scam, that's just business marketing. It's up to the customer to research the plans and decide if it's best for them.

Grocery stores trained us for years that "Bigger is Cheaper" until enough people opted for the larger size. Then they changed the rules on us and you have to look at the price per unit for the best deal. If you're single and unlikely to use 30 pounds of beef OR the price per pound is higher than the regular size, then it's not a great deal. It's up to you, the consumer to figure that out!

[Eriandor]

Returning to the game after several months (and if lifetime members are leaving the game what does that say for it?), and it's only gotten worse - I can't believe stuff like legendary item reforges no longer unslotting relics and now having to spend 195 Turbine points to buy a scroll to unslot them. This was slipped in as part of a change to "fix" legendary's? Yeah right, just a way to force people to spend cash on points

[CGDrakken]

Can you make examples of things that I must buy that are necessary for the game, and that I had for free before that we went f2p? I can't see anything less in my game experience.

Well you know you have to buy a scroll to remove relics from any LIs now, and rather than update the virtue system that hasn't been touched in 4 years, if you want to increase your might, for example, you buy a stat tome from the store, plus with Producer's Letter about store only pots having a permanent place on her skill bar onlys leads to concern that you may get forced into buying them to finish end game content which we never needed before. Also the next item they are adding is to reset Skirmish Marks that you have spent, why isn't there any in-game option to earn that like there is for resetting the points on LIs. The 500 points a month soon won't cut it for a game that wasn't supposed to change for lifetime/VIP members with the move to F2P.

[Duggan]

Can you make examples of things that i must buy that are necessary for the game, and that I had for free before that we went f2p? I can't see anything less in my game experience.

well some would say cosmetic slots are necessary, especially some types of roleplayers.

now before f2p the addition of more slots would have been a feature that players who had a subscription got for free with a content update.

but post-f2p features that would have been free to all are now for sale piece by piece for 495tp per slot per avatar.

for anyone who roleplays heavily and changes outfits alot this is huge slap in the face and if they have many alts who rp..it is an unimaginable expense.

[Crell_1]

for anyone who roleplays heavily and changes outfits alot this is huge slap in the face and if they have many alts who rp..it is an unimaginable expense.

Just so you know those cosmetic slots are account wide!

[Sapience]

well some would say cosmetic slots are necessary, especially some types of roleplayers.

now before f2p the addition of more slots would have been a feature that players who had a subscription got for free with a content update.

but post-f2p features that would have been free to all are now for sale piece by piece for 495tp per slot per avatar.

for anyone who roleplays heavily and changes outfits alot this is huge slap in the face and if they have many alts who rp..it is an unimaginable expense.

This is an opinion I've seen expressed several times and I'd like to correct the misunderstanding. Prior to the addition of the Free to Play option, the shared storage feature (which the wardrobe is based on) was not free with your subscription. In fact it was part of the $29 Adventurer's pack. It was not free to subscribers or lifetime account holders. Though lifetimers were offered it for free if they pre-ordered the Siege of Mirkwood expansion. If anything it was more expensive at that time than it is now. Shared storage, in any form, was never free for subscribers prior to F2P.

WIth the addition of the Free to Play option, however, VIPs recieve the core Wardrobe system for free as part of their subscription while Premium and Free players must purchase the base system along with storage expansions. In otherwords, VIPs now recieve a system for free that they would not have previously under the subscriptoin only model.

[Unique]

but its not just lifers getting hosed...its sub'ers too

stuff that would have been gratis pre-f2p are now being used to wring every bit of coin they can get from lifers and subers

they are making it so that there will eventually be no difference between lifer/suber and freeium

No reason to use derogatory terms - free and premium players just pay for their game a different way (either with money or time).

That stuff you say used to be gratis before F2P would probably be non existent if F2P hadn't happened. They wouldn't have had the motivation to spend time and money to give us extra slots/cosmetics/storage/etc if it weren't for the chance to make money off of them, that's business.

for anyone who roleplays heavily and changes outfits alot this is huge slap in the face and if they have many alts who rp..it is an unimaginable expense.

How is this a slap in the face? You can still change outfits the same as before, nothing was taken away. You feel betrayed because they didn't give you everything free?

They didn't give us shared storage free, they didn't give us expansions, wardens, and RK's free. A subscription grants you access to some content, other content everyone has to pay for.

[Crell_1]

This is an opinion I've seen expressed several times and I'd like to correct the misunderstanding. Prior to the addition of the Free to Play option, the shared storage feature (which the wardrobe is based on) was not free with your subscription. In fact it was part of the $29 Adventurer's pack. It was not free to subscribers or lifetime account holders. Though lifetimers were offered it for free if they pre-ordered the Siege of Mirkwood expansion. If anything it was more expensive at that time than it is now. Shared storage, in any form, was never free for subscribers prior to F2P.

With the addition of the Free to Play option, however, VIPs recieve the core Wardrobe system for free as part of their subscription while Premium and Free players must purchase the base system along with storage expansions. In otherwords, VIPs now recieve a system for free that they would not have previously under the subscriptoin only model.

I'm glad you selected to enable this post to show up in the dev tracker, it's one I'll be referring back to constantly.

This is also a fair comparison in the case of the 4th and 5th cosmetic outfit slots/tabs, because they require more memory per character (storage space/ram).. Etc. these are not trivial costs when added up across the logged in playerbase at any given moment.

[Nymphonic]

I just don't understand where spending 200/300 dollars on lifetime makes people think they have to get everything free.. *shrugs*

But I already get everything for free. I have not spent one dime playing this game since I paid $20(I think it was twenty bucks) for Mirkwood. And I've bought a lot of stuff from the store too.

Well, I kinda wish Turbine would buy me a new gaming rig........

[imptown]

I'm the opposite. I really really wish I had that $200 back since I paid for the lifetime sub to get away from F2P games.

And the recent update is exactly what I was getting away from - having to use the cash shop extensively to get good endgame gear.

precisely.

they got my 200 also.

F2P/play to win isn't my style either and i, unfortunately, actually believed Turbine when they said they weren't going F2P.

[deliguy]

bought my lifetime on apr-23-07. and been loving every minute of it.and still cant wait to enter the white city!!! :-)
my main is Robthelion of Arkenstone

[heatherjewel]

I have a couple lifetime subs and can say that the game was going nowhere fast without F2P. Not sure it is going anywhere with it either, but at least now there is an excuse to why content is lacking or slow to come.

If people hadnt bought lifetime subs when they were offered the game would have really been dead. I was never fooled by all the fanbois who claimed this game was fine and dandy, nor was I fooled by all the positive spin being thrown about by Turbine.

So here we are now 8+ months since F2P came about and the game is about where it was before it went that way. There was a short lived surge, but the same things that plagued the game before still plague it now.

The short list of those problems are....

No Lord of the Rings enough. basically this is just another generic MMO that happens to have names that coincide with the book. The journeys we are taking are totally side tacked from the stuff people really want to see. Even Moria was a mess. Since then we have gone to Mirkwood, another disappointing side track , and next to Isengard Which if the track record holds will disappoint too. Get into Rohan and Gondor where most peopel recognize what is going on. Throw in the fluff stuff later on down the road.

Not enough to do. While this is a loaded statement, when it comes down to it all the stuff there is to do is basically a mirror image of stuff you have already done. So while there might seem to be almost too much to do, it is all just repeating the same things over and over again just at different levels. Titles, virtues, achievements all gotten from killing the same mobs or finding the same types of locations or doing the same repeatable quests for reputation. So once you see a few levels of them you know what youre in for forever.

No PvP. While this might sound like a positive it isnt. Any good MMO must have a decent pvp implementation. Doesnt have to be perfect, or even all that balanced, but it has to be passable and it has to be something that gets some attention. This game had potential a long time ago, and they made some effort, unfortunately the people making the decisions didnt have a clue as to how to develop PvP so they have since simply given up and let it be what it always has been. And once they allow F2P people in there then it will turn into guys farming themselves on F2P accounts and then it becomes even more meaningless than it already is.

Too easy. The hardest thing about this game is finding enough people to do dungeons. Or the right class makeup. Once you get in theyre a joke. But so many people have run them so many times the list of people still looking to do them is very short. Mostly because theyre so easy theyre farmed out in very short order.

The store, if you want a store to be successful you have to sell everything. This whoole 'pay to win' concept is a joke. You dont need a thing in this game. You can run 99% of the dungeons naked and with any weapon you can equip and finish them. So having 'perfect' gear or 'perfect' weapons/class items is a non issue. So selling that stuff in the store isnt going to change a thing. Other than actually putting something in the store people might want to spend some money on. I would also go as far as to say that making dungeons even harder and then selling things to help wouldnt be a bad thing and would kill a couple problem birds with one stone.

Where F2P games really become greedy or perceived to be greedy is when they actually sell stuff that you need, but then raise the level cap or change a dungeon that in turn makes items you spent real money on obsolete in too short an order.

Since this game doesnt have PvP then there is no advantage gained over someone else other than making a dungeons easier to run. Or if they want to spend that much money a dungeon becomes obsolete but you still have the gear.

So if getting the gear seems to be the end all be all what is better earning it or buying it? If enough people buy it at least they have a steady influx of cash which one would like to think they put back in the game. Besides not everyone wants to sit around hours a day looking for a group to do something that will take them 20 minutes to complete. Just sell the gear, make some money and invest it in some content that is both challenging as well as interesting enough not to become boring after a month or so.