shield use rank revisited

[puffzor]

What does it do exactly? Reading the old threads gives the impression that 1 shield use rank ~= 1.5-2% damage increase for shield skills, with some rate of diminishing returns. Yet our new belts have double-triple the shield use rank and I'm hardly noticing a difference in the damage of shield skills, maybe 10-20% increase which can be directly attributed to the removal of the offense rating cap/diminishing return mechanic. anyone figure this out?

[khanden]

my new lvl 75 3A belt has both shield use rank & shield damage maxed and the increase did seem quite large, the tool tip damage of SS gained near 300 points compared to a lvl 65 2A with the same legacies maxed though i haven't tested the damage figures yet. when my build is more complete i may test the difference between the gains of each legacy and the combined effect.

[oaceen]

i've noticed that shield rank is probably going to be almost required. whereas before, i did significantly more damage with shield blow than guardian's ward or vexing blow, the opposite is true now.
vexing blow is a significantly more useful skill now because it costs less power, can be traited as an AOE, and legacied to do even more damage

i think when they fixed guardian dps, they boosted our main-hand attacks considerably by default, but for our shield skills, shield use and shield damage legacy are going to be required to make up the difference.

i was sitting at about 20.9 shield rank at lv70 and still doing more damage with vexing blow and certainly doing more per power cost, so i agree. as it stands, my shield blow is looking a bit useless next to vexing blow right now.

[macdadg]

I was noticing a big difference in weapon damage vs shield damage. Before I upgraded my weapon to a level 72 club, my shield damage with my SA 65 belt was higher than my SA 65 sword, but now my weapon damage is way higher, although I haven't upgraded my belt yet. With a level 75 TA or even SA weapon, I expect to have pretty nice dps, and with a 2 hander and OP...... oh mama.

[tdromba]

Hmm I'm only at 68 thus far but have noticed the lack of dps when set s&b. Op still seems good. Have all reforged 2nd age stuff for tanking and op. Don't remember the shield rank on my shield but close to maxed.

Does anyone know if shield rank has a direct effect on threat? Other than increased dps I mean...

[HairyLegs]

Does anyone know if shield rank has a direct effect on threat? Other than increased dps I mean...

I've been wondering about this myself. The idea behind the shield use rank (as well as the similar tactical and healing ones for other classes) is make up for the fact that the skills stopped increasing on their own after lvl 50, so a lvl 30 shield use rank would equate to a lvl 80 (50 + 30) shield skill. Now, assuming that this is the case, it seems logical that the threat component would also increase accordingly, so that it is lvl 50 equivalent threat with 0 shield use rank, and lvl 80 equivalent threat with 30 shield use rank.

Unfortunately I have not seen any data confirming or denying this theory, so please don't take it as fact. It would be nice if a dev could comment on this, but its probably wishful thinking. However, seeing as shield use rank scales far better now than it used to, I would strongly suggest maxing it out on new belts (belts under lvl 65 have barely had their scaling improved) even if it is just for the increased dps.

[Maelendil]

Unfortunately I have not seen any data confirming or denying this theory, so please don't take it as fact. It would be nice if a dev could comment on this, but its probably wishful thinking. However, seeing as shield use rank scales far better now than it used to, I would strongly suggest maxing it out on new belts (belts under lvl 65 have barely had their scaling improved) even if it is just for the increased dps.

I haven't done very comprehensive tests, but the tests I made on shield-taunt indicated that a shield-taunt with a belt wasn't much more threatening than a shield-taunt without, unless your belt has the skill threat up legacy. So I believe that shield use rank only affect the damage component of shield skills. Again, as I only did a few tests, I cannot be absolutely affirmative here.

For those who would like to replicate the tests here is the setup:

• on level skirmish
• test first without belt to make a reference
• target single regular mob (take the same kind/sturdiness for all tests)
• pull with fray the edge (to get enough initial aggro to get a reactive before your soldier pulls the mob off you)
• shield-taunt
• wait until your soldier (preferably archer) pulls aggro
• use a /say shortcut to precisely record when your soldier took aggro
• repeat with different belts

You can use pledge to get a reactive, or alternatively use traited warrior's heart just before you pull. Remember to disable your auto-attacks, and try to remove all your soldier's traits to avoid big crits which will mess up your results.

[Evanirsb]

how about this idea:

Next time you reforge a belt and rest the points on it don't level the shield usage all the way up. Put the belt on and look at the tooltip of shield attacks and write down what damage it's doing. Then add one level on the shield usage and look at the damage from tooltips again. Keep doing that until you level the shield usage to max and then you should have an idea about how much damage you gain.

The you'll have a list like this:

rank sb ss bash
12 X y z
13 .. ... ...

Shouldn't be too hard to see how the shield usage affects the skills after you do that. Also plz, could you post this numbers here?

Right now I don't have the game open but for me it looked something like:

0 shield (no belt) ~230 for imp sb
15 shield ~290
20 shield ~345

I need to run more numbers with a lower lv belt and with a lv75 once I'm there

[Maelendil]

That's good for damage, not for pure threat. Skills like shield-taunt and litany are non-damaging, and the big question is "does shield use rank affect them?". My guess is no, and I did not spend points on shield damage after a thorough review of my combat logs. This has probably changed with the new values, as shield use ranks got a nice boost in RoI. I will have to test it again, but for that I need to run the Draigloch raid half a dozen of times. So I wouldn't hold my breath for the results if I were you.

[Graalx2]

Shield use rank only affects the damage done by shield skills. Treat it as the dps rating of your shield.

[AwerthThawre]

If you keep hoovering over a shield attack while levelling up your shield use rank you can see the difference it makes then work it out as a % increase, if I am correct shield use rank is added first, the +shield damage % then the skill damage I.e bash, shield smash. Graalx2 can you confirm this please?

[socom33]

If you keep hoovering over a shield attack while levelling up your shield use rank you can see the difference it makes then work it out as a % increase, if I am correct shield use rank is added first, the +shield damage % then the skill damage I.e bash, shield smash. Graalx2 can you confirm this please?

Yeah it would be nice to know this.

I'm thinking its something like (1+.X+.50)*Base Damage*Shield Damage*Bonus Damage*Offense where X is shield use rank.

OR

(1+.X+.50)*Base Damage*(Shield Damage+Bonus Damage+Offense)

[AwerthThawre]

I started to wonder if offensive rating affects shield damage, I'm not convinced it does.

[Evendale]

I started to wonder if offensive rating affects shield damage, I'm not convinced it does.

It definitely does.

[spiritintelligencia]

Is Reactive Block Damage affected by this?

[CrusaderOfMetal]

Shield use rank only affects the damage done by shield skills. Treat it as the dps rating of your shield.

Can we get a better name for it? Like "Shield damage rank"? As AFAIK the tactical damage rating from LM staffs, minis weapons, etc also help accounting for resists (or used to, at least). The problem is that we already have a "Shield damage" legacy... that makes two "legacies" for the exact same purpose, and people dare say we aren't broken and/or don't need fixes lol

[Inkfinger]

Can we get a better name for it? Like "Shield damage rank"? As AFAIK the tactical damage rating from LM staffs, minis weapons, etc also help accounting for resists (or used to, at least). The problem is that we already have a "Shield damage" legacy... that makes two "legacies" for the exact same purpose, and people dare say we aren't broken and/or don't need fixes lol

Actually this is a good point, and something I hadn't even realized. Does this legacy do the same thing? I think we need some clarification here before we go any further.

[Grendaran]

Is shield rank from a belt wasted when you're using a two-handed weapon?

[Inkfinger]

Is shield rank from a belt wasted when you're using a two-handed weapon?

Beyond any doubt. I have a belt dedicated to tanking and a belt dedicated to dps. On the dps belt I don't put any points into shield use because I'm not using a shield in Overpower

[Edlorthar]

Is Reactive Block Damage affected by this?

At 65 cap it was, I don't think that has changed.

Is shield rank from a belt wasted when you're using a two-handed weapon?

Yeah I totally ignore it on my OP belt.

Even on my tanking belt, I don't put stats into shield use, unless I have extra points. I'd rather max out more important legs like CaB cooldown, skill threat up, g.threat BP and even stat legs (off the top of my head, I think stats max at +36 on new 75 third age LIs).

[ArcticAurora]

Please show me where Shield Use Rank has ever affected Reactive Block.... because it doesn't. RB has always had a base damage and the RB legacy that multiplies the base value.