What are the LOTRO loot developer(s) doing?

[jakeprecision123]

With the inception of Riders of Rohan, there came ancient riddermark scrolls, which was supposed to be kept a secret. Through these scrolls, you could craft the best helm and shoulders for many classes in the game. However, you needed the scrolls to drop first and these scrolls dropped from any level 85 mob. The chances of a drop, though, was incredibly low.


Moreover, these scrolls could not be obtained from any raid/instance chests. This meant that if you wanted to get those scrolls, you'd have to kill level 85 mobs over and over again, with no end in sight, or you could wait 1-2 months for people to start selling them.


For end game raiders or anyone who wanted the best gear, they had to participate in "farming" level 85 mobs instead of raiding for loot. Coincidentally, at that point in time, the only raids were scaled skirmish raids and helegrod raids, which posed little to no challenge.


Today, after four months of ROR, we've seen update 9 and update 9.1. Update 9 introduced the scaled DG cluster, which was not scaled properly, and three new scalable 3-man instances. There were also no locks for level 85 BG t1/t2. Update 9 also introduced personalised loot, where everyone in a fellowship/raid would get their own loot, instead of rolling for things. This was a good introduction conceptually, as everyone would get something out of a raid.


However, it also meant that loot distribution systems like DKP and SKL became quite meaningless. Update 9 introduced a set of legendary quality items for all classes. Some were essential (Burg boots/champ boots/Hunter offhand.. etc), others were not (Champ pocket/Burg cloak/hunter boots). These items had one thing in common, they were incredibly rare, and dropped from the new instances. They were almost as good as symbols, and should have a similar drop-rate to FAs in the Orthanc raid.


Again, due to the lack of locks, and the minuscule chance of the drop, these legendary quality items were being "farmed" for over and over again through endless runs of the new instances. I know of a friend, who after close to 900 runs of the new instances, has still not gotten his legendary item. Now, back in the OT days, you never could and would "farm" orthanc this way as FAs were guaranteed for challenge modes, and had a 50% chance to drop in t2.



When update 9.1 was introduced, the droprates for symbols were severely reduced in BG, and instead of giving us new raids or instances, the developers decided it was better to discretely introduce another ancient scroll case which, not surprisingly, came from level 85 mobs. These scroll cases are as rare as their predecessors, and for them to be obtained, you could either kill level 85 mobs over and over again, or you could wait 1-2 months for people to maybe start selling. Also, these scroll cases could not be obtained from raid chests.


Now, the point I'm trying to get across is the best items should only be gotten through raiding, and not through mindless killing and grinding of level 85 mobs, with no end in sight. Sadly, this loot system does seem very intended. Perhaps it is the inability of our beloved LOTRO developers to come out with new raids and instances, that they have to make us participate in mindless grinding to keep us in this game.


Now, if a LOTRO developer (RockX) comes across this thread, I implore you to read the many discussions in the forums on how you can improve your loot system. Stop trying to make up for your colleagues' shortcomings by introducing ridiculously flawed loot to keep us in this game. If you really want to save this dying game, keep your promises and introduce better content.

[Hiney1]

If you really want to save this dying game, keep your promises and introduce better content.

Got bored reading your history of RoR, probably missed your point too. What was it? But since the game is dying, I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Bhoris_they_spider]

Well at least the instances are droping somewhat desirable loot now. If you contrast these with scaled Fornost (U7) I bet the U9 instances have been run more heavily. As for scaling having killed DKP, well no it hasnt really as all the teals, symbols, scrolls etc can be traded to the leader and bartered for DKP. As for the gold items, yes it does suck that some people got theirs on the first run and some people havent got one on their 400th... The only think I can suggest is that maybe these items can be added to the skirmish vendor for a very large number of marks i.e. 25k

I do agree about the recipes. I have no problem with them dropping from landscape mobs, BUT, they should also drop from loot chests within instances... I suppose they can also drop from mobs in the instance but I'd like to see better drop rates from chests.

[Hoppkins]

That the best gear should be from raiding and not sheer attrition of killing high level mobs.

I agree despite being a newbie to the game. It's a concept which is the fundamentals of any MMPORG but only applys when your max level really. It may sound elitist but those who do the hardest content should have the best items and titles.

People who sit killing millions of inferior mobs should not get rewarded the same as those who kill fewer high level raiding mobs. The 2 are just worlds apart in difficulty.

Just because you pay (or maybe not as the case is) to play something doesn't mean your ENTITLED to the best of what the game offers anymore than people who pay to enter sports tournaments deserve to win.

[Zanaspus]

However, it also meant that loot distribution systems like DKP and SKL became quite meaningless.

Right there is the fault in your logic. Devs couldn't give a &&&& about your precious Dragon Kill Points. If you want a game where the devs care about that, go play the original Everquest. They catered to the minority of the folks like you and lost everyone else.

[Thorwyn99]

That the best gear should be from raiding and not sheer attrition of killing high level mobs.

I agree despite being a newbie to the game. It's a concept which is the fundamentals of any MMPORG but only applys when your max level really. It may sound elitist but those who do the hardest content should have the best items and titles.

People who sit killing millions of inferior mobs should not get rewarded the same as those who kill fewer high level raiding mobs. The 2 are just worlds apart in difficulty.

Just because you pay (or maybe not as the case is) to play something doesn't mean your ENTITLED to the best of what the game offers anymore than people who pay to enter sports tournaments deserve to win.

I disagree. Options are good all that would be needed is to make the drop chance in instance chests high enough so it's viable to get the recipe that way.
This is a game and i'm all for choices. Get the gear you want by playing as you want, if that is killing 5000 easy enemies so be it.
Oh and on that note someone on the forum mentioned getting a recipe out of some instance chest, not sure about the chance though.

[talfre]

A lot of players of MMOs these days don't want a second job to try and progress and want to relax for an hour enjoying themselves doing whatever they want, having a 0.0000001% chance to get a scroll from a level 85 mob is no less of an effort than raiding to get something you want so why limit it to those who have the time to raid a lot, it's not even a guarantee of the top item from those scrolls as you need a crit to get the best item.

So if you farm raids for 8 hours and have a chance at the best gear and someone else wants to kill mobs 1 hour a day for 100 days is that less of an effort, even though the chance of you getting a scroll after 8 months is probably being really hopeful and then getting a crit as well means you get what you want after a couple of years is probably about right and by then it's out of date and outlevelled.

There should be an increased chance if you raid but limiting it to raids is not really a great idea.

[Alotlost]

I have to admit, I prefer to work for something, than to have it randomly drop by chance, into my bags. The sense of achievement has gone for completing an instance....

I often wonder, is it needed for small group instances, and landscape mobs, for a char to have the most powerful equipment? Is that not why it was included, mostly in raids initialy? Seems to me, that its raid instances, that need a char to be really well equiped, to enable the completion of the raid. Of course, I may be wrong...

[kidnova78]

I can agree that they should allow those items to drop from instances, but don't agree that they should be taken away from landscape mobs. There are plenty of items that are instance-only so why not throw the soloers a bone every now and again? The Devs took a chance and tried an alternate method for obtaining high-end gear with Hytbolt and I think it's been pretty successful. MMO demographics have changed over the last decade and the "only raiders get/need the best gear" mentality is slowly changing as well. That's a good thing IMO.

[Kalderic]

The way I see it:
you can compare the scrolls which drop from lvl 85 mobs a bit to a lottery. Every time you kill a lvl 85 mob you have a tiny chance to hit the jackpot and gain an item worthy of raiding loot.

Raids require more work, but also give a much better chance on good loot. These items are comparable to the stuff you can win at the lottery described above.

If you are obsessed with winning the lottery by all means keep buying tickets (read; kill mobs), but you really are not required to do so in order to get good items. If you enjoy raiding just do that and get rewards just as good as the landscape scrolls.


oh, and lotro has nothing to do with DKP, suicide kings and such looting rules. in fact, the only reason those looting rules were used is because previously the game lacked a good looting system. If turbine can make such third party systems obsolete it means they are doing a good job improving the game.

[macattack88]

Now, the point I'm trying to get across is the best items should only be gotten through raiding, and not through mindless killing and grinding of level 85 mobs, with no end in sight.

If you really want to save this dying game, keep your promises and introduce better content.

After your brief history of 7Lotr7o's recent his7tory, then seein7g the name, I don't fee7l bad for you at all that you haven7't gotten your bracelet re7cipe yet. I don't think lotro feels the need to cater to people who leave their macro bot running 24/7, although I do agree that an alternate way of acquiring these could be implemented.

PS: The 7's are not typos, they are actually how kyo's text appears in glff, for obvious reasons.

[SpankyDom]

At the expense of sounding elitist.
All these gold drops should be dropping withing tier 2 raids only. Why you might ask?
Because these are the items that make or break the top players on the server, the item that gives a player the max possible potential for their selected class. The rebuttal to this would be "I never have the time to raid all day" etc. Given this may be true without these items you can clear almost any end game content they are here to further perfect a player giving raiding kinships a further boost towards upcoming content. Also if you are not able to raid all day everyday why then must you receive the best items ingame without having to work towards it when all you will be running is Skirms and SG clears.

As I stated that sounds elitist but thats how I feel and many others I've spoken to also feel. It's quite frustraiting when people you know run 800+ t2 runs and receive no gold items yet people who run in and play once a week get that lucky loot on a 3man run.

P.s. Bring back radiance best gating mechanic known to gaming.

[SpankyDom]

After your brief history of 7Lotr7o's recent his7tory, then seein7g the name, I don't fee7l bad for you at all that you haven7't gotten your bracelet re7cipe yet. I don't think lotro feels the need to cater to people who leave their macro bot running 24/7, although I do agree that an alternate way of acquiring these could be implemented.

PS: The 7's are not typos, they are actually how kyo's text appears in glff, for obvious reasons.

Turbine is pushing people towards farming instances, 1. Its not against the CoC and 2. With the way loot has been setup to farm 1000's and 1000's of mobs to receive the best loot in game would you not think this problem would never be here if they just put the best loot within end game raiding content just like they used to do.
Also you say they should cater to people who macro, Why cater to people who play once a week that never do end game content to have the best possible items in game?

[Namesse]

Remember back in the glory days of SoA when you could get really good loot by killing landscape mobs? I pulled a number of good pieces out of Sarnur while doing deeds, plus some other decent loot elsewhere. This is the same mechanic.

As for the recipes dropping in raids or landscapes, doesn't matter to me as my luck in that area is abysmal, nothing really good drops for me anymore, in raid or out.

[Kerin_Eldar]

That the best gear should be from raiding and not sheer attrition of killing high level mobs.

I agree despite being a newbie to the game. It's a concept which is the fundamentals of any MMPORG but only applys when your max level really. It may sound elitist but those who do the hardest content should have the best items and titles.

People who sit killing millions of inferior mobs should not get rewarded the same as those who kill fewer high level raiding mobs. The 2 are just worlds apart in difficulty.

Just because you pay (or maybe not as the case is) to play something doesn't mean your ENTITLED to the best of what the game offers anymore than people who pay to enter sports tournaments deserve to win.

Yup, this is how the elitists in MMOs think, it's sad.

[SpankyDom]

Yup, this is how the elitists in MMOs think, it's sad.

You don't need to be the elite to clear content you just need to put some hours into working towards it

[TinDragon]

Also, these scroll cases could not be obtained from raid chests.

Woo for being informed! I've seen multiple people reporting they've gotten their scrollcases from raid chests.

Also you say they should cater to people who macro, Why cater to people who play once a week that never do end game content to have the best possible items in game?

That's not what he said at all. He said that he feels LOTRO doesn't need to cater to those people.

By the way, your statement of how farming works and his comment on macroing are kind of the same thing, so I A) doubt that Turbine is moving the game towards farming, and B) don't think you understand what's being talked about.

[Thorwyn99]

You don't need to be the elite to clear content you just need to put some hours into working towards it

And what exactly is the difference to putting in even more hours farming landscape mobs ? Except for the difficulty.
Everyone as he wants to.
That being said while i'm sure alot of people grind those scrolls, which could pose a problem for completing the dailies,
i would guess the idea behind putting the scrolls on random mobs is to make the occasional person happy even if they're just doing their thing.

[Emachine]

Used to be that Gold was really for raiders only wasn't it? I mean in RoI the only gold level items I can think of were the cloak and the necklace. Both of which required a clasp to upgrade. I don't recall if the Orthanc gear was teal or gold (I thought teal). If there were more, call me out on it. At this point half of some people's gear could be gold after never having done a raid.

It was said in another thread that seeing someone with gold items used to make you think, "Man, they must be good to have finished some really hard content." Now you mostly think, "Wow, they're lucky."

It would be nice if both the scrolls and the gold items have a drastically increased chance of dropping in the new raids. Like 50%+ for t1 and 100% for t2 by which I mean that in a t1 there's a 50% chance that at least 1 person will get a gold item (not individually 50% chance as that would be quite high).

I don't mind that they drop on landscape mobs. More power to the people willing to farm them but I'd like there to be a more reliable (fun) way to get them.

In summary: I want those Horse Bracelets but would rather do hard content to get them rather than farm 10k mobs.

[Thormost]

Having skimmed the posts after OP, I have come to my own conclusion.

Why not have them in both raids and landscape mobs? That way everyone is happy and everyone wins?

Seems like some people want it one way or the other, or maybe I'm just ignorant and have misread. Who knows, I just want new raids. :P

[Kerin_Eldar]

Having skimmed the posts after OP, I have come to my own conclusion.

Why not have them in both raids and landscape mobs? That way everyone is happy and everyone wins?

Seems like some people want it one way or the other, or maybe I'm just ignorant and have misread. Who knows, I just want new raids. :P

Because some people, clearly from what they posted here, want it only for the content THEY do , and the more exclusive and elite that content is, the better for them as it adds to the e-peen value.

[kidnova78]

Because some people, clearly from what they posted here, want it only for the content THEY do , and the more exclusive and elite that content is, the better for them as it adds to the e-peen value.

This is the crux of the issue, and in all honesty I don't have a problem with raiders getting exclusive items. However, I don't think EVERY single top-quality gear drop needs to be raid/instance exclusive. They will always be better geared than a soloer, but that doesn't mean that they can't make some top loot drop from landscape. This complaint will die down for a bit when the 2nd half of the instance is released and raiders get their new phat lewtz, but I think they are going to have to come to the realization that this is primarily a casual MMO and it's okay if they share some of that stuff with us peons.

[jcmanda]

...the best items should only be gotten through raiding....

Says you. This is an assumption that should die a slow, painful death.

[jcmanda]

At the expense of sounding elitist.
All these gold drops should be dropping withing tier 2 raids only. Why you might ask?
Because these are the items that make or break the top players on the server, the item that gives a player the max possible potential for their selected class. The rebuttal to this would be "I never have the time to raid all day" etc.

No, the rebuttal to this is that if your definition of the "top players on the server" are the "ones with the coolest stuff," then your definition is broken. I'd argue that the top players on the server are either:

1) the ones that I have the most fun playing with; or
2) the ones that know how to play their class the best, regardless of some gear-queen's idea of what the "best gear" is.

I personally prefer #1, because I don't give a rat's hind end what you raid-grindy gear-heads are doing on a day to day basis. You go have your fun in your own way. But don't make generalizations or assumptions about the ENTIRE population of the game based on your own limited perceptions. There are a lot of other folks out here that just don't care.

[Aidlywo]

P.s. Bring back radiance best gating mechanic known to gaming.

Yup and best way to lose a majority of the casual raiding people that play LOTRO who through busy real lives can only block out time once or twice (if lucky) a week to raid.

You advocate going back to the bad old days where of a large chunk of the servers population were being excluded by the elitist few because they cannot give the time to raid all the time to acquire the required armor etc.