Feedback Throne of the Dread Terror

[Thrifkori]

Hi there,
I opened up a new thread so we could give feedback to the new raid here.
It would be nice, if you could use different colors for different topics.
So the Devs could keep an overview. Because nobody will read a 9-pages thread only containing wall of texts without any markup.
I suggest
red for Bugs and Exploits,
yellow for Suggestions
and orange for Observations on the mechanic

[jailwartho]

you can pull the mumak bosses outside of their area and kill them one after another while skipping all the mechanics





to do this bug you get only 1 tank inside the instance, he gets agro on all the mobs except for one and the mini pulls the mob over the fence with healing agro, do this for all 3 bosses and voila...ezmode

[Coeprandua]

Excellent. Thank you. Scheduled to be fixed for U21.

[ThePinion]

This will be fixed for the next build - thanks for the screenshots.

[Celembar]

I haven't got chance to play the instance yet but...

Does the new raid provide another way to get Supreme Essences? An essence box of some sort with supreme essences inside would be a great idea in terms of reducing the grind...

[Thorebane]

I haven't got chance to play the instance yet but...

Does the new raid provide another way to get Supreme Essences? An essence box of some sort with supreme essences inside would be a great idea in terms of reducing the grind...

So far it seems to be the same as first age symbol drops back at 65/75/85 time.

5% chance Tier 1

50% Chance T2 chest.

100% Challenge chest.

There's a group that did challenge 3 times and got it all 3 times (that's where I'm getting this stats from atm + the fact turbine had this percents confirmed in other raid loot RnG chests.)

[Gabli]

There is something very wrong with some of the ennemies in the raid, as a tank. Most physical attacks are completely non avoidable, even when you do not have a debuff.

- Here is the CA parse of all trash mobs leading to the Mûmak fight (also includes some dummy tests, but not relevant), where "a melee attack" cannot be avoided :


- In the Mûmak boss fight, it looks like nothing can be avoided :


- Same thing in the Gothmog fight, though this is said to not have been completely implemented yet.


I did not check every mob/fight, but this seems to be a very recurrent issue. As a tank, it feels very wrong and I do hope this is a bug. Non-avoidable attacks should not be common, but reserved for boss specific mechanics.

[siipperi]

There is something very wrong with some of the ennemies in the raid, as a tank. Most physical attacks are completely non avoidable, even when you do not have a debuff.

I did not check every mob/fight, but this seems to be a very recurrent issue. As a tank, it feels very wrong and I do hope this is a bug. Non-avoidable attacks should not be common, but reserved for boss specific mechanics.

I wouldn't judge it yet. It's clear trash holds no mechanics at the moment and have just named auto-attacks. I would check avoidances just only on Rakothas fight tbh.

Mumak fight is somewhat worrying.

[Gardhik]

Do you not see. When I took SS about 18.2 itemisation, i saw too much + xxxx morale for my liking. They revamp BPE and then give you this kind of itemisation...

[peachykins]

Is this a multi boss raid like people have been asking for????

[Thorebane]

Is this a multi boss raid like people have been asking for????

Yes... they said over a year ago it was.

It has 6 bosses ( some bosses have multiple bosses in said fights)

[peachykins]

Yes... they said over a year ago it was.

It has 6 bosses ( some bosses have multiple bosses in said fights)

WOW... I don't raid but am happy for the raiders to finally get a new one like this.

[Miyolein]

So, there are so many kinships raiding the whole week and no one posts any feedback? Everyone is just there to get the firstkill titles, when the raid hits live?

[Gabli]

I wouldn't judge it yet. It's clear trash holds no mechanics at the moment and have just named auto-attacks. I would check avoidances just only on Rakothas fight tbh.

Mumak fight is somewhat worrying.

We gave it another try tonight, and I forgot to take a screenshot but the issue is still there : the only incoming attack that can be avoided (full or partial) is "A Weak Melee Attack".
Everything else, from trash to Mûmak fight is completely unavoidable.
I do hope it's a bug, because revamping the entire B/P/E system to give tanks a reason to invest in avoidance ratings to then give them a reason to throw it all away would be utterly mind boggling.


There are a few things wrong with the Mûmak fight itself :

- It is still exploitable : you can pull them one by one. Advance so that they become attackable (morale bar goes red) and then immediatly run back towards the entrance. Only the one in the middle will enter combat. Then you can aggro one of the other two just by carefully approaching him.
- The Mûmakil have an induction that you can interrupt, but is actually pretty hard to spot as the graphic thing is fairly small in comparaison to the Mûmak size. It's extremely easy to have it hidden by a Mûmek leg , especially when Mûmak are close to each other. The screenshot below illustrates this, but you can clearly see the induction because at this moment it was standing on his hind legs. As far as I saw, it does not necessarily do that.

[Orodalf]

You can't actually interrupt the induction. It's a red induction circle, which means that it's non-interruptable.

[Fasin]

The mammoth fight still seems impossible to complete without exploiting, even on T1

[glfftroll]

So, there are so many kinships raiding the whole week and no one posts any feedback? Everyone is just there to get the firstkill titles, when the raid hits live?

Without the use of the exploit the Mumakil and Friends boss fight is proving to be an extra high hurdle to overcome and certainly impossible on T2 without the exploit.

Problem #1) The mumakil will put an eye on a target (red, purple or yellow corresponding to a mammoth) and more often than not completely ignore their target for 15-20 seconds and target someone else and THEN target the person who had their eye sometimes long after the eye has expired.

Problem #2) Having the tank kite a mammoth with a healer (beorning in this case) following tends to lead to a stampeding mammoth spawning on top one or both of them killing them instantly and even with run speed buffs eventually an unlucky spawn occurs with multiple stampeding mammoths leading to them getting boxed in and killed.
Problem 2B) The stampeding mammoths are just small and fast enough (also nearly indistinguishable from the bosses, yes they don't have a saddle, but the bosses are so huge that at close range you don't even see a saddle and that is a BIG issue with the stampeding mammoths) that if you fight in the open field they will often just run through a boss mammoth and surprise the hell out of your raid causing at least a couple deaths .

Problem #3) If you try to stand and tank the Mumakil after a certain point in the fight they start doing siege circles (3 at a time per mammoth for a max of 9 possibly on the ground at once) and stunning people often in the rather wide diameter of their multiple circles.
Problem 3B) Fight near the edge of the arena and the mumak will sometimes put circles down, knock back people in to the invisible wall and then stun them. If this happens twice (or if two mumakil come up at once) its a wipe for certain.

Problem #4) The Mumakil share damage between each other randomly. Each mumakil at 75 or 70 percent health will spawn additional mobs at its feet and do so again every 10 percent health lost (so with 3 mumaks this is roughly 18-21 extra groups of mobs) and when they share damage between each other this can trigger multiple add groups being spawn at once. In addition to the personal threshold adds when any mumak reaches 55% adds from the front gate spawn and continue to spawn every 50 seconds to minute from there on out so if you heavily damage a mammoth and he spreads his damage out you can get nearly overrun by additional small mobs and then pretty much any mumak walks up to the group at that point and and puts siege circles down (and stuns or knockbacks a healer or two) and its game over.

Problem #5) This is a T2 specific problem. The damage output on the skill roaring stomp (or rearing stomp i don't quite remember) hits too hard, it hits light armors with maximum mitigations for a minimum of 53,000 damage or medium armors for 44,000 damage. With the random aggro elements of the fight if anyone is hit by this skill they are almost certain to die, the damage output of this skill needs to lowered severely on T2.


Suggestions) 1. Remove the the ability to stun from the Mumakil on T1 this is annoying on T2 the damage from a stun and then a siege circle is EXTREMELY high often 2-shotting people and this combination of events happens way too often for the 2 minute 'stun break-out' skills to save a character every time.
2. I'm certain its been said before, but its worth repeating: the stampeding mammoths are way too hard to see. Either swap the size margins on the bosses and stampeding mammoths or remove their enhanced run speeds altogether or even better remove the eye mechanic from the main bosses and have them be a mechanic for stampeding mammoths instead and also remove their enhanced run speed so the appropriate player character knows to run for their life and not kill the raid and themselves.

[Gabli]

You can't actually interrupt the induction. It's a red induction circle, which means that it's non-interruptable.

You do know that the red spinning thing in the middle means that the monster is attempting to complete an action that you actually can interrupt ? That is the whole point of it actually...

Without the use of the exploit the Mumakil and Friends boss fight is proving to be an extra high hurdle to overcome and certainly impossible on T2 without the exploit.
Problem #1) The mumakil will put an eye on a target (red, purple or yellow corresponding to a mammoth) and more often than not completely ignore their target for 15-20 seconds and target someone else and THEN target the person who had their eye sometimes long after the eye has expired.

The seemingly random aggro is indeed problematic, and as far as I remember was not there in build 1 where the Mûmak would stick the tank or run towards a player with an eye and damage+stun them if they catch them.

Problem #2) Having the tank kite a mammoth with a healer (beorning in this case) following tends to lead to a stampeding mammoth spawning on top one or both of them killing them instantly and even with run speed buffs eventually an unlucky spawn occurs with multiple stampeding mammoths leading to them getting boxed in and killed.
Problem 2B) The stampeding mammoths are just small and fast enough (also nearly indistinguishable from the bosses, yes they don't have a saddle, but the bosses are so huge that at close range you don't even see a saddle and that is a BIG issue with the stampeding mammoths) that if you fight in the open field they will often just run through a boss mammoth and surprise the hell out of your raid causing at least a couple deaths .

The Stampeding Mûmak spawn locations and trajectories are actually not random, so you can ask for some players in your group to warn you when they might enter close to your area.

Problem #4) The Mumakil share damage between each other randomly. Each mumakil at 75 or 70 percent health will spawn additional mobs at its feet and do so again every 10 percent health lost (so with 3 mumaks this is roughly 18-21 extra groups of mobs) and when they share damage between each other this can trigger multiple add groups being spawn at once.

Damage redirection is an intended mechanic, and if I am not mistaken it can be easily taken care of.

Problem #5) This is a T2 specific problem. The damage output on the skill roaring stomp (or rearing stomp i don't quite remember) hits too hard, it hits light armors with maximum mitigations for a minimum of 53,000 damage or medium armors for 44,000 damage. With the random aggro elements of the fight if anyone is hit by this skill they are almost certain to die, the damage output of this skill needs to lowered severely on T2.

I believe this ability is supposed to be used on a player that has an eye if he does not manage to outrun the Mûmak for the duration of the debuff. People being targeted at random (at least it seems so) would explain why what you describe happens and is probably a bug.

[Orodalf]

You do know that the red spinning thing in the middle means that the monster is attempting to complete an action that you actually can interrupt ? That is the whole point of it actually...

No. An orange spinning thing indicates an interruptible induction. This one is red. It isn't interruptible.

[Gardhik]

Yep, introduced with the trolls at the beginning of DoS. Before, you had to recognize the animation, now there are the red spinning circle to help you further.

[Thorebane]

The mammoth fight still seems impossible to complete without exploiting, even on T1

Done it 5 times T1 without exploiting.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

Yep, introduced with the trolls at the beginning of DoS. Before, you had to recognize the animation, now there are the red spinning circle to help you further.

Wut?

There are two circles there:

1) The TARGET circle. That is the one with runes. It spins slowly and is gigantic due to the size of the mob.
2) The wavering red circle in the very middle of the target circle. That's the induction notification that lets you know a mob is inducting. If it looks orange to anyone it may be due to transparency and its color mixing with another one. The size of this circle should match the size of the Guldur Lights in Barad Guldur. There's something wrong with Mumaks and their size that make the induction circles and quest rings TINY.

[Orodalf]

Wut?

There are two circles there:

1) The TARGET circle. That is the one with runes. It spins slowly and is gigantic due to the size of the mob.
2) The wavering red circle in the very middle of the target circle. That's the induction notification that lets you know a mob is inducting. If it looks orange to anyone it may be due to transparency and its color mixing with another one. The size of this circle should match the size of the Guldur Lights in Barad Guldur. There's something wrong with Mumaks and their size that make the induction circles and quest rings TINY.

What we are saying is that the Mumakil induction circle is a RED induction circle, not an ORANGE induction circle. RED colouration indicates that the induction CANNOT BE INTERRUPTED.

Also, t1 is doable, it's just much harder than the rest of the instance on t1.

[Thorebane]

What we are saying is that the Mumakil induction circle is a RED induction circle, not an ORANGE induction circle. RED colouration indicates that the induction CANNOT BE INTERRUPTED.

Also, t1 is doable, it's just much harder than the rest of the instance on t1.

I don't see what much of the problem is with this fight.. :S on test server it's one of the faster ones I've seen done myself and others.

Have the healers stay back a bit more than usual (and any LM's if have) and they will keep an eye out for pathing mumaks.
Guardian tanks all three (or you could do where a champ taunts one at a time off to focus) And have a tank pick up adds
When any inductions are done, just move away, if you get an eye, have again the healers and LM direct to go so they don't run into pathing mumaks.
It's honestly almost the same as OD fight just watch out for a few more things.

[Orodalf]

I don't see what much of the problem is with this fight.. :S on test server it's one of the faster ones I've seen done myself and others.

Have the healers stay back a bit more than usual (and any LM's if have) and they will keep an eye out for pathing mumaks.
Guardian tanks all three (or you could do where a champ taunts one at a time off to focus) And have a tank pick up adds
When any inductions are done, just move away, if you get an eye, have again the healers and LM direct to go so they don't run into pathing mumaks.
It's honestly almost the same as OD fight just watch out for a few more things.

Lol, I'd love to see a video of you executing this strategy.