why dont creeps get tier 2 dmg on freeps?

[Noseblood]

freeps are so op still after a year off nothing has changed, so very anti creeps I see.. rk and there tier 2 fire burns for 3500 dmg, vs creeps 500 max dmg on a crit that's real fair.... not
burgs are so op even stalkers cant compete. wargs do not dmg what so ever couple hundred vs freeps 2000, 3000,4000,13,000 dmg yeah ok creeps dead in seconds

[siipperi]

[NigerianPrince]

[Vezal]

[Spilo]

[WhiteGoliath]

explains creepside

[Ethrildar]

Creepside OOC is leaking out onto the forums again.

[Noseblood]

stop freep flaming on a creep forum post

[Spilo]

stop freep flaming on a creep forum post

[XbammyX]

tier 2 fire burns for 3500 dmg, vs creeps 500 max dmg on a crit that's real fair.... not

500 max dmg on a crit

500

on a crit

wargs do not dmg what so ever

creeps dead in seconds

Sure, if you're bad.

stop freep flaming on a creep forum post

[Spilo]

mits?

[XbammyX]

mits?

50% physical mitigation.

I'm fairly certain mitigation for medium classes, or just hunters, is bugged/broken.

50% tactical mitigation and I got hit for 11k with a Mephitic Kiss a few days ago.

[Hurtful]

50% physical mitigation.

I'm fairly certain mitigation for medium classes, or just hunters, is bugged/broken.

50% tactical mitigation and I got hit for 11k with a Mephitic Kiss a few days ago.

I can't speak to whether mits are broken or not as I don't have any creeps myself to know what these skills hit for as a baseline. However, I regularly take VTs above 10k, mephitic between 8-11k, bestial claws between 6-9k, etc. I just assume all freeps run at or above the mitigation caps nowadays as we don't really have an option if we want to last longer than 2 seconds. I also just assume people saying creeps can't dps are just lacking the ability to put together fluid rotations and movements. The top-end players of each creep class can dps just fine.

[Ethrildar]

mits?

He's capped. I get the same results as him with 50% mits and 60% crit D.

50% physical mitigation.

I'm fairly certain mitigation for medium classes, or just hunters, is bugged/broken.

50% tactical mitigation and I got hit for 11k with a Mephitic Kiss a few days ago.

My experience is exactly the same, on Champ on average I take hits for a third (at most) of what my Hunter takes, with a 10% mits difference... I no longer use 58% mits trait setups, but I'd be interested to see if that trait actually works as well.

I can't speak to whether mits are broken or not as I don't have any creeps myself to know what these skills hit for as a baseline. However, I regularly take VTs above 10k, mephitic between 8-11k, bestial claws between 6-9k, etc. I just assume all freeps run at or above the mitigation caps nowadays as we don't really have an option if we want to last longer than 2 seconds. I also just assume people saying creeps can't dps are just lacking the ability to put together fluid rotations and movements. The top-end players of each creep class can dps just fine.

I know roughly what the baselines are, and it varies massively from creep to creep, but I regularly find myself taking massive hits on Hunter, the same numbers you see. Wargs are the worst, one or two pools and my mits appear to just disappear, despite that only removing 15%, Claws hits go well over the 10k mark.

Running below mits cap is just not an option anymore, I'm even considering going up to 75-80% crit D just because of all the Wargs. I see 80k LMs on Ark and they die in seconds due to no mits.

[siipperi]

50% physical mitigation.

I'm fairly certain mitigation for medium classes, or just hunters, is bugged/broken.

50% tactical mitigation and I got hit for 11k with a Mephitic Kiss a few days ago.

No critical defence. I take bigger hits as light armor wearer every now and then and I have quaranteed way higher critical defence than you do.

I can't speak to whether mits are broken or not as I don't have any creeps myself to know what these skills hit for as a baseline. However, I regularly take VTs above 10k, mephitic between 8-11k, bestial claws between 6-9k, etc. I just assume all freeps run at or above the mitigation caps nowadays as we don't really have an option if we want to last longer than 2 seconds. I also just assume people saying creeps can't dps are just lacking the ability to put together fluid rotations and movements. The top-end players of each creep class can dps just fine.

No critical defence. Dev claws from behind hit me under 7k as 40% wearer.

[Ethrildar]

No critical defence. I take bigger hits as light armor wearer every now and then and I have quaranteed way higher critical defence than you do.



No critical defence. Dev claws from behind hit me under 7k as 40% wearer.

Really, why then with 60% Crit D do I also take similar numbers to them? As I (believe) I said in my post above, most creeps aren't continually hitting me for the ridiculous numbers (still high but not insane like 11k Mephs and 7-8k claws), but the decent ones do and it's not by any means uncommon.

Critical Def really does work now, and is very important, but there's still something very wrong with Medium armour mits, always has been, it's just never been quite this apparent.

[Hurtful]

No critical defence. Dev claws from behind hit me under 7k as 40% wearer.

Unfortunately that is not the case. I spend a ton of time on builds, and am always equipped with sufficent crit D. These numbers are with 50-60% crit D. What I think you may have misunderstood is that while they occur regularly, they are not the average across all creeps for these attacks. The issue is NOT my build. These are likely just situations of supposed glass creeps blasting big numbers. The result is likely a sub-10 fight. However, creeps always respond thinking these numbers don't happen on creep side and that creeps cannot output big numbers/dps. These instances show that creeps are more than capable of dropping freeps 30-60% morale in one shot just as max geared freeps are to unmitigated creeps etc.

[Ethrildar]

These instances show that creeps are more than capable of dropping freeps 30-60% morale in one shot just as max geared freeps are to unmitigated creeps etc.

Just to add to that:

Freeps can do this to unmitigated Creeps, Creeps can do this to fully mitigated and high crit D Freeps.

[siipperi]

Unfortunately that is not the case. I spend a ton of time on builds, and am always equipped with sufficent crit D. These numbers are with 50-60% crit D. What I think you may have misunderstood is that while they occur regularly, they are not the average across all creeps for these attacks. The issue is NOT my build. These are likely just situations of supposed glass creeps blasting big numbers. The result is likely a sub-10 fight. However, creeps always respond thinking these numbers don't happen on creep side and that creeps cannot output big numbers/dps. These instances show that creeps are more than capable of dropping freeps 30-60% morale in one shot just as max geared freeps are to unmitigated creeps etc.

50% critical defence is relatively low but no way properly builded medium armor wearer gets hit over 6k with claws. Leading me to believe people dance over armor debuffs and doesn't over cap mitigations enough. I do however agree that creep damage is really high to the point that it's ridiculously hard to win even mediocre warg on light armor class (when behind claws hit regularly 6-7k). Sadly there are broken freep classes which are total faceroll on the other hand.

But that happens when Turbine/SSG listens clueless people who think lack of damage is problem on ettenmoors balance.

[Spilo]

Just to add to that:

Freeps can do this to unmitigated Creeps, Creeps can do this to fully mitigated and high crit D Freeps.

Creeps have to make immense sacrifices to go full glass cannon. A glass cannon Warg is going to have significantly less survivability than a non-glass Warg. As for a 20k non-dev VT, the only way that's possible is with a full glass build and Warleader buffs- even then I'm skeptical that he wasn't debuffed. I've taken 10-13k, but never a 20k (at least after U19.2).

Again, we have to realize that these discussions really get nowhere. Dev Aim CA, is Cancer, Bestial Claws is Cancer, Hunter's easy DPS is dumb, and Spiders need the crud nerfed out of them. We all agree on that, and debating over minutia honestly is something I'm growing tired of.

[Hurtful]

50% critical defence is relatively low but no way properly builded medium armor wearer gets hit over 6k with claws. Leading me to believe people dance over armor debuffs and doesn't over cap mitigations enough. I do however agree that creep damage is really high to the point that it's ridiculously hard to win even mediocre warg on light armor class (when behind claws hit regularly 6-7k). Sadly there are broken freep classes which are total faceroll on the other hand.

But that happens when Turbine/SSG listens clueless people who think lack of damage is problem on ettenmoors balance.

While not all that important, I'll go ahead and post the next instances of me taking claws above 7k, etc. it happens semi-regularly with no puddle, debuffs, etc. 50-60% crit d may seem low to you and others, but there's no way a properly built freep is appreciably above or below that range. Below and you get wrecked even faster. Above and you're really fighting against the DR of the curve and sacrificing other stats.

[Ethrildar]

Creeps have to make immense sacrifices to go full glass cannon. A glass cannon Warg is going to have significantly less survivability than a non-glass Warg. As for a 20k non-dev VT, the only way that's possible is with a full glass build and Warleader buffs- even then I'm skeptical that he wasn't debuffed. I've taken 10-13k, but never a 20k (at least after U19.2).

I wasn't really referring to the 20k VT, that's clearly some odd circumstance, I don't see them that high but I don't raid so I probably don't get the regular full extent of debuffs that many other players may see, I don't doubt at all that 19k is totally common for those regularly fully debuffed.

Too right, regarding going class cannon, there's no option for a Freep to lose mits and still expect not to insta-die. That said, it's a totally viable high-dps build for a Warg to trait 6 of one mit type and still chuck out insane levels of DPS compared to other Creeps, there's literally no trade-off worth having in which 6 mastery corrs. are even remotely comparable to traiting mits, so it's not like there's some tremendous DPS loss here.

For the record, the debate over what is and isn't op is an old one and I'm tired of it too, I just don't like hearing that it's some huge nerf losing out on the 6 mastery corruptions (that do next to nothing) where traiting 6 tac mit is so much more powerful. You're talking a 50-60% damage reduction over a 10% actual DPS increase, the two are just in a different league. Kind of the same as saying "poor hunters" if they lost 5% Quick Shot damage but gained Toxic Carapace as a result.

While not all that important, I'll go ahead and post the next instances of me taking claws above 7k, etc. it happens semi-regularly with no puddle, debuffs, etc. 50-60% crit d may seem low to you and others, but there's no way a properly built freep is appreciably above or below that range. Below and you get wrecked even faster. Above and you're really fighting against the DR of the curve and sacrificing other stats.

I've been gradually screenshotting some of the more hilarious damaging hits I've seen over the last few weeks, I've only taken a couple but I'll upload them later on when I'm home. I've only screenshotted the ones that are unreasonably high levels of DPS in equally unreasonable circumstances (i.e. I'm not even debuffed and I take 8k DPS for 4-5 seconds and then die still in the stun).

[ScribeEzra]

Please, cry some more, I enjoy your tears

[XbammyX]

I've only screenshotted the ones that are unreasonably high levels of DPS in equally unreasonable circumstances (i.e. I'm not even debuffed and I take 8k DPS for 4-5 seconds and then die still in the stun).

Here's one for your collection - from today. 22k health, 28k phys mit build.

How silly of me to walk out of the rez far enough that this warg could pounce me during the 20 man rez camp.





lol.

[GrandCru]

22k health, 28k phys mit build.

22?

How silly of me

lol.