Let's start talking about the burliest bunch of bears, the Beornings...

[cwswim03]

He's the only class with an aoe heal. Make it groupwide, as every other healer has, and beorning won't be so preferred. The class already has issues healing upper tiers of group content.

As I have said many times-every spec of every class should be competitive and viable in every type of content, the difference should be in the playstyle. So yes, Minstrel, Rune Keeper, Beorning, Blue Captain should be equally good everywhere. If each of them is positioned as a healer. Right now only Minstrel is capable of performing equaly good in every type of content. Rune Keeper is fine, but tricky on some encoutners. While bears and captains have a lot of issue in t3+. They are more lilke a support class then real healers.

So, is beorning a support class? If not -his healing capability needs to be buffed and adjusted outside of a couple of raid-wide heals.

Like what upper tier group content are you having problems with? The only upper tier group instance right now is HoR and bear heals that just fine.

[Arabani]

Like what upper tier group content are you having problems with? The only upper tier group instance right now is HoR and bear heals that just fine.

T3+ was pretty rought during learning curve, so was every instance at the beginning of the expansion. Mini and RK have never had such issues.

Beorning is like Captain counterpart with similar issues: while Captain has a lot of hots/maintained heals and almost no burst healing, Beorning has a lot of burst and almost no heals he can maintain.

[cwswim03]

T3+ was pretty rought during learning curve, so was every instance at the beginning of the expansion. Mini and RK have never had such issues.

Beorning is like Captain counterpart with similar issues: while Captain has a lot of hots/maintained heals and almost no burst healing, Beorning has a lot of burst and almost no heals he can maintain.

Was it though? I mean bear healing was impossible essentially before they changed the loknashra 1 shot. But after the changes to loknashra/Vethug, it wasn't challenging anymore. And yeah, bear is not an HoT class except on the Main tank

[dandevi]

General
Make Ferocious Roar aviable in Bear Form
Remove interaction limitations based on form we hate it so much switch 100 times the Form to loot things from Quest

Yellow
Shake Free: Bubble is to low must be much higher 30-40% of Moral
Need 1 more Heal in Man Form

Red
Make Execute great again
Too much Bleed dmg need more Direct dmg
Need 1 more aoe skill maybe Claw Swipe aviable in Red Line
Composure: Should be in the Blue Line useless in red normal version of Heaten Heals the same
Turn the Tides: Need Rework
Enraging Sacrifice: Change it to a Dmg Buff 15% for 15sec for the Target of this Skill

Blue
Worthy Adversary: Give the Moral and Armor buff the Man Form too
Assertive Roar: 15% more Moral for 10sec is much too low 20% for 20sec and must aviable in Bear Form
Down But Not Out: Give the heal also in Bear Form
Recuperate: Heal is too low for a Tank
Quick Recovery: should buff the Heal full Time not only the Initial Heal
Hearten: Heal only in Man Form is not usable for a Bear Tank
Thickened Hide: should give a Initial heal 30%-40% other Tanks have much better emergency Skills

[fealegwe2]

i would like to see the interupt skill being used for its purpose..an interrupt

right now its the hardest hitting skill and its constantly being used to do damage.

please fix Execute and make man form hit harder so we don't rely on our interrupt skill to do damge

if armour crush and bees get a nerf then the heals need to be increased and given at least 30m range.

ALSO Beorning desperately needs more effective traceries. the limited choice for each trait line is sad.

[Argonui2]

Hi Orion, thanks for looking for feedback!

I've been playing blue and yellow bear for ~a year, and have played them both lots up through HH t2

Yellow: very fun to play. I love the 2 marks you get to play with, form switching is engaging and worthwhile. There's always something to be doing to eek out a bit better performance which i find to be very fun. The only trait that I am sad about is piercing roar: it is very unclear to the casual or new beorning that the -20/-40% damage is actually a mastery debuff, which translated to much much lower effective damage reduction. I would rather it be -5/-10% damage reduction and be effective (aka multiplicative); (this also applies to Slam trait in blue). Thank you for making this trait line very fun to plan and pretty much all traits seem worth taking which makes for (imo) interested choices because you also want blue things.

Blue:
I very much (once again) love the feel of tanking with a bear. love the theme of being beefy bear protecting friends. Only having one defensive CD makes harder tier content more limiting. Also there is very little to do when in bear form. I'm fine on principle having a tank class that's easier, not doing complicated rotations etc; not everything has to be as complicated as yellow.
So either buff counter to cement the "better at tanking adds", or give an additional cd to balance around, maybe costing wrath (not to rip off mettle shield, but that idea on bBear would be cool).
Defensively Minded makes me never need to build guarded manually. mabye making guarded harder to build but also give +tacmit% would add more interactive play?
Sacrifice is very sad to use in blue. Because it uses target's mits, using sacrifice is a surefire way to get me killed. It feels very nice to use on tank in yellow which is a thematic fail, why can't the tank bear sacrifice better than heal bear? i would wish that it used my mits. Other QoL with sacrifice would be to 'preload' it optionally (like dnf).


Silly QoL changes:
* allow cosmetic something in bear form. maybe a sash, or change up the tatoos to be larger. anything for individual expression
* change ALL quests that have the action "destroy" to be completable in bear form. c'mon, bears can destroy totems and flags way faster than humans

[SSG_Orion]

A lot of the QoL changes that are being asked for are potentially very difficult or night impossible. I'll be looking at the class soon, so expect to start seeing things in the future. No guaranteed timeline.

[HoboNanikin]

First off, I would love the Relentless/Brutal Maul bug for Red Beorning to be fixed. Every time you use Relentless/Brutal Maul and change to man form, you can no longer see the CD of that skill and it makes it a lot harder to do damage. This might be a red line only bug, but still a bug! I also feel like Red-Line Beorning really needs some dps tweaking. I find it extremely hard to get into any groups due to their low damage compared to any other DPS class such as Brawler, Hunter, Champ etc. I'm not too sure if it's just red-line needing some dps increases to their LIs, Skills or whatnot, or just something else. Even a stat-capped 140 Beorning doesn't do comparable damage to the before-listed classes and it's just frustrating getting ignored for instances due to their damage. The execute skill is also considered to be useless by all Red Beornings due to how low damage it does compared to the cost of wrath. It would be nice to see it get a damage increase since pretty much all red beornings ignore that trait.

[HoboNanikin]

Well...I don't really have the time these days to go into the big detailed posts about everything wrong with the class (which were ignored anyway during Vastin's attempt to revamp the class ) but I guess I can still whip a TL;DR style list.

• Red Beorning:
  
• Execute is a dead skill, nobody wants to dump their entire wrath pool into a skill that does mediocre damage. Could just revert all the changes Vastin made to it and restore OG moment of opportunity.
  
• The bleed focused playstyle is pretty odd, doesn't really mesh with the class fantasy of being a rampaging bear on the battlefield. Whilst the class probably should have bleeds I don't really think their maintenance should be the focal point of the rotation.
  
• Personally I'd favour redesigning red Bear to be a class that spends ~2/3rds-3/4 of its time in man form and transitions into bear form as a DPS cooldown that mostly just gives empowered versions of the man form skills. Man form animations feel pretty slick, it's just a shame the thing doesn't do all that much damage by itself.
  

I completely agree with all the points here, especially the Execute being a dead skill and the last point about bear form being the DPS cooldown. I really do agree with the fantasy that your bear form should be your cooldown form to do some big damaging attacks, where your man form is your sustain form. Right now you only use Slash and Biting Edge in man form and stay in bear form for the rest of your window unless you need to reapply Slash/Biting Edge and it feels like man form may as well be removed due to how little it's used for Red. I'd love for it to get reworked where you can only enter bear form at 100 wrath and all abiltiies consume wrath but do massive damage, and once your wrath is low you swap back to man, and the man form skills should be adjusted for this so you don't just use Slash/Biting edge.

[Maedol]

Please make more wrath in the yellow line! She burns out very quickly in a raid and this is sometimes a problem. In Remmorchant there was a useful set for +10 Wrath when swapping skins, I would like at least something like that on a permanent basis.

[Kreegan]

I have two gripes with any and every MMO:

1. Any kind of vertical maze that is impossible to see on screen/mini-map (like Goblin Town); they are a real pain-in-the-### to traverse, especially when there are multiple chain quests needed to complete.
2. Quests like the Beorning quests that reward teal items, BUT require obtaining very low drop rate items, and after turn-in require ANOTHER damn low drop rate item to be obtained... damn chain quests! By the time the reward item can actually be obtained, the character has out-leveled it.

The two Beorning quests given by the Beorning characters brother around level 46 require going to Angmar and finding out where the items are actually dropped... and discovering atrocious drop rates.

[dandevi]

Yellow Line has in higher Tier a lot of Problem with wrath generation
Last 2 sets are amazing for heal
i would love to see a New Legendary Traceries with +7-10 wrath for each transformation (Old Remmo set)
and in yellow line a passive for bring the bonus from the "Armour of the Hiddenhoard Roar" Encouraging Roar gains the Uplifting Roar area heal as a secondary effect. Its cooldown is increased to 6s."
i think this would make a Beo heal a little bit easyer for new healers

[fealegwe2]

i don't like how an interrupt skill is one of the most damaging skills the beorning has.
this should not be a thing

i often have it on cooldown (because i want to do damage) when a mob starts an induction

[TobiasEstForte]

Beos having wrath problems are either staying in bear form or they're not fully informed on how to efficiently generate wrath in man form. The +10 Remmo set was a crutch.

Review your tooltips and traits.

[Maedol]

Beos having wrath problems are either staying in bear form or they're not fully informed on how to efficiently generate wrath in man form. The +10 Remmo set was a crutch.

Review your tooltips and traits.

I advise you to go to the current raid above tier 1 and tell what it's like with a yellow beorning now to maintain all the necessary debuffs and heal non-stop. Tell me how you deal with wrath.

[Maedol]

And more about wrath. I never understood why the NPC has 150 of it, and we have a maximum of 100 (in my opinion, only a dol amroth set increased the total) I would like to have the opportunity to increase it at least in talents

[TobiasEstForte]

I advise you to go to the current raid above tier 1 and tell what it's like with a yellow beorning now to maintain all the necessary debuffs and heal non-stop. Tell me how you deal with wrath.

Hearten - Wrath over time
Nature's Mend - 10 Wrath
Ferocious Roar - Wrath over time + 0 cost next heal (use maul or bellow)
Biting Edge - 15 Wrath
Slam bonus wrath legacy
Wrath Refund chance

Sure you won't be dripping in wrath 24/7 but when you leverage all these properly you have more issues with waiting for a heal rather than wrath. How on earth did Beos manage before the remmo set bonus? With the transform bonus, the wrath generation from skills was mostly an afterthought. Not exactly balanced.

I've done T2 plenty of times btw, and haven't signed up to T3 yet because I still have things to learn. 1 of them is not wrath generation, I only find myself lacking when I'm distracted and don't notice I have Fero off cooldown.

[GozmitJosh]

I have the option set so my character moves towards the mob when i use a skill, which works great, except when i use relentless maul and the enemy moves 1 step too far away and i take a step just after i use the skill so it cancels on me sometimes i have just round up the camp and relied on that skill.

I would prefer that skill to root me to the ground and make me stop moving AND prevent me from moving while its being used, and i would have to click the skill again to cancel it before its done.

[Maedol]

A lot of the QoL changes that are being asked for are potentially very difficult or night impossible. I'll be looking at the class soon, so expect to start seeing things in the future. No guaranteed timeline.

I wonder when that time will come. Still, I think Beorning, like the captain, are definitely the only classes that will have 3 trait branches after the changes.

[Galfonir]

We had a rework of Warden and a completely fine class that was already top tier Tank with buffs, heals and battlerezz (battlerezz as tank. lel. good design). Loremasters and Beornings should be top priority for Class Trait Tree reworks and tuning of Skills.

When will atleast the simple aspects of reworking Beorning happen?
These would be swapping Red and Blue Traits (Crush to Red, Composure to blue), Replacing useless Traits in both trees, adjusting values (Recuperate, Execute) and fixing bugs (Relentless Maul cooldown not showing in Manform, Battle Born Critical Bonus not apllying to offhand critical hits). Even in LotROs spaghetti code these things are doable within a relatively short time. Before implementing a new class or adding the 728. delving tier, every class should work atleast half decently.

Pls show love for Bears.

[kalil]

Bump!!

Need some bear love! We need to move out of the fewest played class spot. Are we still being looked at? It's gotten awfully quiet...

[Arabani]

The biggest issue of Beorning is the bear form, imo. It is not only too big and inconvenient to play in instances, but chages the skills, mechanics and forces one to do form dancing. As a healer I would prefer to stay in the human form all the time.