Bullroarer Update 34 - Beta #3 - CLOSED

[ivan582]

Will you create a thread to discuss the new 6-man instance? I had a problem: after killing Luilloth, the next door does not open. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

[Maedol]

For some reason, pvmp gear is still not available outside of the Ettenmoors. That is how it should be?

[Burzdolion]

The new music at the character select screen is good on it's own, but doesn't really fit where it is.

It's quite a somber start to begin with and then kinda misses the ethos of matching the character backgrounds, so much doom and dread for a sunny day in the shire.

But, the reprises of the previous music found halfway through the music is great. I am a sucker for that reprise prog element.



Can we have an option to set a default music track?

[DoRonRon]

Transfer wizard showing only Bullroarer characters with the Bullroarer client launcher, I guess this is because the main servers are down atm? Standard launcher has no transfer option for the same reason?

[Burzdolion]

Transfer wizard showing only Bullroarer characters with the Bullroarer client launcher, I guess this is because the main servers are down atm? Standard launcher has no transfer option for the same reason?

It's been like this throughout all Bullroarers this time round due to the transfer issue on the live worlds.

[DoRonRon]

It's been like this throughout all Bullroarers this time round due to the transfer issue on the live worlds.

Slightly different issue as we all copied over on the BR client launcher for BR#1.

[Burzdolion]

Slightly different issue as we all copied over on the BR client launcher for BR#1.

Misunderstood, apologies!

[Halldin]

Could we maybe get actual seating for the chairs in Herne? (Both the inn and the houses) That way roleplayers could really use the town, currently it'd be hard as the chairs don't adjust to the character when you are trying to use the /sit emote.

[squirle]

Hunter 465-470 redline

Delving
This week T10 malice of the -40% finesse/crit puddles feel a tad underpowered compared to the spawn and reflect of the last 2 weeks. Especially for ranged you can blast through them without a worry.

Delving T10 still feels geared towards to low-end geared characters. Double mob pulls with the 1 extra mob on death can be aoed down reasonably well. If a CC is used on 1 of 2. Health doesnt really budge that much.

Might be fun test to gear alts up without outside help. But for a main character anything below T7 you could skip while advancing.

Delving rewards
The crafting boxes supposed to give random tier 1-5 of crafting materials instead of the selection boxes from BR1/2

6-man duo
the 100% evade corruption on the spiders. Not sure how you're supposed to lose that if your bloodarrow cant get a hit in.

[venyos]

Orc Camp still floating

Screenshots on links below:

https://imgur.com/a/jrZe7tB

https://imgur.com/cLaOjDd

[DoRonRon]

Hunter 465-470 redline

This week T10 malice of the -40% finesse/crit puddles feel a tad underpowered compared to the spawn and reflect of the last 2 weeks. Especially for ranged you can blast through them without a worry.

Delving T10 still feels geared towards to low-end geared characters. Double mob pulls with the 1 extra mob on death can be aoed down reasonably well. If a CC is used on 1 of 2. Health doesnt really budge that much.

Might be fun test to gear alts up without outside help. But for a main character anything below T7 you could skip while advancing.

6-man duo
the 100% evade corruption on the spiders. Not sure how you're supposed to lose that if your bloodarrow cant get a hit in.

Had fun on burglar with the spawn on death; Coup de Grace as a finishing move got enough stealth and distance to not get aggro and come at the "shade" fully charged. Stacking Dread with no additive Store Hope pots makes it interesting... Having a lot of up-front damage, as usual, is an advantage to finish off mobs before they can get too much of their de-buffs off.

Burglar: All Coffer gear and Craft Essence Soloer.

[Spilo]

**FEEDBACK FROM LIVE vs. BR NUMBERS** (on shadow warg)

I can share my hard numbers, but that's going to be just a bloat of text. If those are needed, let me know.

**1. The blessings/corruptions are, from my short testing, a net nerf on creepside.** The global stat amount (ASIDE FROM MASTERY) took massive hits. Running Tarkrip (the best balanced blessing) cost me 10% crit, around 10-13% resist, 9% crit magnitude, 1-2% BPE, and around 3.5% Pmit, and 6% Tmit in the same build. Now, I DID gain Mastery, around 15-16% tooltip, but coupling this with the monstrous crit % reduction and minor crit mag reduction means a small DPS increase, with a significant defensives decrease.

2. **The blessings are not balanced statwise, specifically around the weighted values of defensive stats.** Tried Scara a try considering that's lore appropriate, and it doesn't work at all. I gained a lot of my crit chance back (almost back to Live %), but BPE got even worse and, crucially, my mitigations took an even harder hit, dropping an additional 5% physical from Tarkip, and nearly FIFTEEN percent Tactical from Tarkrip. Running Scara in the SAME build as live grants you less Crit/Crit defense, SIGNIFICANTLY less BPE/Resist, 10% less Physical mitigation, and over TWENTY percent less tactical mitigation. Rough!

3. **The corruption changes make it impossible for balanced builds.** The shift towards 2 and 4 sets for bonuses was good, but that was met by axing the strength of those bonuses (Crit/Mits specifically) significantly, making the 2/4 set bonuses very small, and the 6 set significantly stronger. This the OPPOSITE direction of creating more balanced builds/reducing negative variance. I cannot slow 2 of this, 4 of that, and so on, as the 2/4 sets are so weak, that I'm strongly encouraged to gamble and play for the 6 set bonuses instead. The 2/4 set bonuses should be STRONGER than the 6 set to ENCOURAGE/ENABLE balanced builds! This is the WRONG direction!


**Suggestions:**

1. **Blessings/Corruptions need more fun variance** like DoT damage, inc healing, crit defense, crit magnitude, heal magnitude, etc. that promote variance in playstyle instead of being a raw stat lump that somehow INCREASES variance (by trashing core stats if you're in the wrong blessing or punishing you for not running a 6 set), and DECREASES variety (because only one Blessing has balance). Base stats like crit chance, mitigations, etc. shouldn't b e dice rolled in the Ettenmoors, and shouldn't be something you have to pick and choose. **Capping crits/mits isn't the problem. The problem is the 25% to 72.5% (Flayer Warg) or 18% to 28% Crit chance variance you have within the SAME class!**

2. **PLEASE STOP ENCOURAGING PLAYERS FROM USING SIX SET BONUSES/IMBALANCED BUILDS.** Combining mitigation corruption into one and shifting the more potent set bonuses for all corruptions to 2/4 would go a long way here.


Build being used on live and BR- 3/3/3/3 isn't optimal, but the 2/4 set bonuses are underwhelming anyway... so...




Blessings were supposed to balance out base stats, remove cruddy corruption RNG, and add separate different class benefits... this is worse than what we have on live:

[CaerArianrhod]

Beorning:

• Blue Line Beornings can now block while wielding a Spear as a primary weapon.

Still could not find any way to convert a non-spear weapon into a spear, nor could I find any compensation possibilities.
Question for SSG: will be any compensation/exchange possibilities for Beornings?

[Kaeneth]

Browsing through the item database I saw a number of really nice looking new armor pieces, so nice job to the art department for the new armor. I did notice some of the pieces I liked seemed to be around level 50 in item level though, so I'm unsure how they're meant to be acquired if delvings are only level cap. Maybe I missed something? Hope they aren't stuck in the database without getting put in game, because some of the level 50 pieces looked a bit different from the level cap variations.

Also saw a replica of Celebrimbor's shield and hammer, which I'm quite happy about as I've wanted that shield especially for some time. Didn't see anywhere in game to get it yet though, so I'll have to figure that out.

Thanks for the nice looking new stuff. I especially like the series of shoulder pieces we're getting this update that have both pauldron armor on the shoulders and cloth wrapped around the neck. Pieces like that I've also wanted for some time, so I'm really going to be able to make my character look a lot more how I've always wanted him to after this update.

With all the nice new armor cosmetics and furniture though, I gotta say I really wish we could have gotten some new weapon skins too. Those don't seem to come around as often, and I was a bit disappointed to see that the Eregion weapons connected to the new skirmish just use the same old skins rather than some new elvish designs. Especially since there's still a ton of weapon skins in the database that still have no way of being acquired in game. Maybe at least consider using some of them instead of re-using skins that have been readily available for some time? Other than that though I'm quite pleased with a lot of the cosmetics and just wanted to throw that out for the art team to see.

[olimaxnik]

**FEEDBACK FROM LIVE vs. BR NUMBERS** (on shadow warg)

I can share my hard numbers, but that's going to be just a bloat of text. If those are needed, let me know.

**1. The blessings/corruptions are, from my short testing, a net nerf on creepside.** The global stat amount (ASIDE FROM MASTERY) took massive hits. Running Tarkrip (the best balanced blessing) cost me 10% crit, around 10-13% resist, 9% crit magnitude, 1-2% BPE, and around 3.5% Pmit, and 6% Tmit in the same build. Now, I DID gain Mastery, around 15-16% tooltip, but coupling this with the monstrous crit % reduction and minor crit mag reduction means a small DPS increase, with a significant defensives decrease.

2. **The blessings are not balanced statwise, specifically around the weighted values of defensive stats.** Tried Scara a try considering that's lore appropriate, and it doesn't work at all. I gained a lot of my crit chance back (almost back to Live %), but BPE got even worse and, crucially, my mitigations took an even harder hit, dropping an additional 5% physical from Tarkip, and nearly FIFTEEN percent Tactical from Tarkrip. Running Scara in the SAME build as live grants you less Crit/Crit defense, SIGNIFICANTLY less BPE/Resist, 10% less Physical mitigation, and over TWENTY percent less tactical mitigation. Rough!

3. **The corruption changes make it impossible for balanced builds.** The shift towards 2 and 4 sets for bonuses was good, but that was met by axing the strength of those bonuses (Crit/Mits specifically) significantly, making the 2/4 set bonuses very small, and the 6 set significantly stronger. This the OPPOSITE direction of creating more balanced builds/reducing negative variance. I cannot slow 2 of this, 4 of that, and so on, as the 2/4 sets are so weak, that I'm strongly encouraged to gamble and play for the 6 set bonuses instead. The 2/4 set bonuses should be STRONGER than the 6 set to ENCOURAGE/ENABLE balanced builds! This is the WRONG direction!


**Suggestions:**

1. **Blessings/Corruptions need more fun variance** like DoT damage, inc healing, crit defense, crit magnitude, heal magnitude, etc. that promote variance in playstyle instead of being a raw stat lump that somehow INCREASES variance (by trashing core stats if you're in the wrong blessing or punishing you for not running a 6 set), and DECREASES variety (because only one Blessing has balance). Base stats like crit chance, mitigations, etc. shouldn't b e dice rolled in the Ettenmoors, and shouldn't be something you have to pick and choose. **Capping crits/mits isn't the problem. The problem is the 25% to 72.5% (Flayer Warg) or 18% to 28% Crit chance variance you have within the SAME class!**

2. **PLEASE STOP ENCOURAGING PLAYERS FROM USING SIX SET BONUSES/IMBALANCED BUILDS.** Combining mitigation corruption into one and shifting the more potent set bonuses for all corruptions to 2/4 would go a long way here.


Build being used on live and BR- 3/3/3/3 isn't optimal, but the 2/4 set bonuses are underwhelming anyway... so...




Blessings were supposed to balance out base stats, remove cruddy corruption RNG, and add separate different class benefits... this is worse than what we have on live:

I can only agree with that. I hoped on BR for testing my Reaver like I did in Beta 2 and also came to the conclusion that no matter which corruptions or blessing I use, in gerneral my stats are worse because the new corruption bonuses in combination with the blessings don´t work out well. Stats are a lot worse compared to Beta 2 and even worse than on live server. In my opinion if you bring up the build like it is right now to the live servers it would nerf the creeps even more instead of buffing it. However I could see working Beta Build 2 out on live servers, at least more than Build 3.

[Sherush]

Please change Wizard's Fire back to a morale boost on flank rather than a power boost. It's a pointless change that won't benefit the class.

Agree

Please not power restore keep the morale restore...... LM has ability to already get power back we need our handy flanking morale boost. Not happy to see this change at all and don't know what you guys are thinking..... do the people making these decisions every play LM?


Also wish I saw Ancient Craft distance extended.... kind of stupid for a LM having to run in to a mob to put it on then back out (raid) Sometimes in certain raids getting close can lead to LM death.

[Dranak123]

Agree

Please not power restore keep the morale restore...... LM has ability to already get power back we need our handy flanking morale boost. Not happy to see this change at all and don't know what you guys are thinking..... do the people making these decisions every play LM?


Also wish I saw Ancient Craft distance extended.... kind of stupid for a LM having to run in to a mob to put it on then back out (raid) Sometimes in certain raids getting close can lead to LM death.

agree on Ancient Craft....put a tier 5 on the trait and make it ground targeted. For Moors it would be nice as a freep to have a couple of maps. If someone is caught in a standoff combat...say LM vs WL wouldnt it be just dandy to put a call in OOC and have a freep jump in and finish off the dastardly WL. Lots of points all round...everyone happy...except the WL. Funny thing is thats exactly what often happens to freeps now with creep map ins...just saying. Why do you think Freeps rarely go out alone. If Orion wants more engagement in the moors maybe he should re-evaluate this.

[awargstale]

It will undergo some renovations with an intent to re-open at some point in the distant future.

Would like answers to these!

Warg combat stealth 3 sec, when and from which skill? To be on par with burglar.

Warg stealth movespeed, when? To be on par with March.

Warg scouting options with no maps anymore, how, when? To compensate for lost mobility.

Warg disapear/sprint reset button like "ready and able", when? To be on par with burglar.

Brand fix so it works on all slows/stuns/roots/messes not just some. Adjustment back to 10sec from 5, because 5 is useless because of lag, when? To work as intended.

Warg out of combat res along the lines of "high-elf res" maybe something like a "howl of resurrection" Please. (suggestion)
Due to the fact that wargs rarely run with healers in a pack, it would be a nice addition and a freep race now have a racial res and creeps do not.

[egarthur]

... people paid for that content before, for the trait points they provided among the other reasons. Now both trait points and the content of locs is provided free. Do you consider that fair?

Absolutely fair! What you paid for was early access to that content, those trait points, etc. You could have chosen to wait until they became free, while watching the early-access folks enjoying the benefits right away. Patience has its rewards, but it also takes discipline.

people did pay for that though, it isnt fair towards those people
good for newcomers i agree
still quite controversial change

Controversial is defined as "giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement". So, does one voice or small number of voices make something "controversial"? Or, do we, as reasonable adults, acknowledge that significant changes to the game, especially when they involve the monetization model, will never please everyone? As far as I can tell, the vast majority view the absorption of content through Helm's Deep into the base game, as a positive change. This is undoubtedly partly from an understanding that removing barriers from new players will help bring in revenue and helps to sustain the game, which benefits everyone.

Completely invalid argument. I got quite tired of explaining this stuff to people when the system just came out, but well, seeing another blinded, will do that once again
Quick comparison.
Max imbued required (at worst case if poor pre-imbue), for 1 item: 36 star-lit crystals (can be bought) plus 259 anfalas scrolls (can be bought) plus best relics you could slot at your level (3/4 came from grop content, 1 crafted).
Max item of legends requires (char-level-dependent, at item level caps of 449 - was at 130, and 499 - will be at 140): 240 yellow enhancement runes, 120 purple enhancement runes, 120 teal enhancement runes 108 gold enhancement runes, 12 gold traceries. Yellow runes are direct purchase for AS, purples come from dailies - still relatively easy, teals are already a problem, gold come from t4-t5 6+man instances only plus reward track. Still in very small quantities and reward track is non-repeatable (last lvl massive RNG).

And yet again, you make the mistake of comparing "max to max". The whole point of the new system is that maxed LIs aren't necessary for most content. This brings it line with other vertical-progression elements, such as armor and jewellry. The ability of casual/solo players to max out their LIs was an aberration -- the exception, not the rule.

> new system item is worse pure damage/healing-wise everywhere but 130+, proof: https://i.imgur.com/Psu9Tyy.png. This is most annoying trick SSG made on release of new system, which blinded and fooled 90% of players. New items were overtuned for 130 (AND THERE ONLY). Too few were people whose vision wasnt narrow to see whats going on outside 130 to make and uproar. Unfortunately.

That's a very biased and deceptive comparison. You're comparing a level 75 old LI to a level 75 new LI. 240.8 versus 186.4. Superficially, that's a bad look. But, at the very next level (76), you get to reforge that new LI; it now has a base DPS of 280.0. So, yes, the DPS brackets are out of sync with each other -- sometimes the old LI is more; other times the new LI is more. Now, let's fast-forward a bit: at level 81, the new LI has 340.5 DPS, while the level 75 old LI is still stuck at 240.8. The average DPS for a 1-hand new LI over the 75 through 84 interval is 294.8, more than 22% over the old-LI DPS. And that trend continues up to the 85-94 bracket and beyond, all the way to endgame. So the assertion "new-LI DPS is lower than old-LI DPS", as a blanket statement, is false -- it's only true for some levels, and not on average.

Also, the old LI you show is fully upgraded with legendary points and star-lit crystals. The main gist of your post was the the new system is too grindy, yet you show an LI for which someone obviously performed a grind for star-lit crystals, and progressed their old LI with LIXP enough to max out the "DPS legacy". The new LI doesn't display any evidence of grinding or progression at all. You purport to make an honest comparison, yet you had your thumb on the scales the whole time -- an old LI which just made its level bracket, has no level-based improvements available for the next 10 levels, and fully upgraded through grinding/progression, versus a new LI on the verge of passing into a higher level bracket, and not upgraded at all. Sad. If I were a more cynical person, I'd almost think you were banking on the fact that most folks have forgotten the nuances of how the old LI system worked, and will only simplistically compare one DPS number to another DPS number, for a given, cherry-picked level. Bad news for you: some of us have good memories for this kind of minutiae, and will never forget how awful the old LI system was (replace my "legendary" item every few levels? what? imbued versus unimbued? give me a break. major versus minor legacy replacement restrictions? good grief. legacies that unexpectedly morph on imbue? hard pass on that). Good riddance to it.

[l6rp24e57]

Absolutely fair! What you paid for was early access to that content, those trait points, etc. You could have chosen to wait until they became free, while watching the early-access folks enjoying the benefits right away.

Thing is that nobody knew in advance that content is going to become free at some point. So the 'unfair' argument is still valid.

On the second paragraph where you compared dps numbers. Why do you compare 76 new item to 75 old? Its not equal comparison.
75 new to 75 old is equal, what i provided screenshots for.
Comparing new 76 is equal to comparing 3 crystal lvl 76 third age. I dont have footage for this. Maybe you do? But i am pretty sure 3age 76 is stronger.

I compared blank new items to fully fleshed old only because the screenshots i posted were from early release of the system when neither i nor the one i got materials from cared of their new items yet. And the comparison is still valid because dps numbers on item dont change with tracery slotting.
Alsso, keep in mind early levels with new system get only 4 slots. Against full 7 of old system. Additionally, some % values are worse on traceries than on legacies.

[Fadil]

Absolutely fair! What you paid for was early access to that content, those trait points, etc. You could have chosen to wait until they became free, while watching the early-access folks enjoying the benefits right away. Patience has its rewards, but it also takes discipline.
Controversial is defined as "giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement". So, does one voice or small number of voices make something "controversial"? Or, do we, as reasonable adults, acknowledge that significant changes to the game, especially when they involve the monetization model, will never please everyone? As far as I can tell, the vast majority view the absorption of content through Helm's Deep into the base game, as a positive change. This is undoubtedly partly from an understanding that removing barriers from new players will help bring in revenue and helps to sustain the game, which benefits everyone.

Honestly, I dont know anyone, except apparently some on this mb, who doesnt love this change. Lets not forget it doesnt just help new players it also helps those of us
who enjoy leveling new alts.
I didnt mind having to do certain content once, having to do it on every alt you make was horrible.

Also: if people were actually paying for trait points (really?) that in itself shows the old system didnt work.