If they did this, chances are that barrage will still go up to the bugged T5 state. Making a 2s CD would help address that bug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwenwing
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If they did this, chances are that barrage will still go up to the bugged T5 state. Making a 2s CD would help address that bug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwenwing
Preventing barrage from getting higher than Barrage3 is only possible with having at least 5s delay between 3 Barrages.
If barrage with the highest possible attackspeed has an animationdelay of 0,5s, that can be achieved with 2s CD. Otherwise, it needs to be longer. Animationdelay plus CD needs to be minimum 2.5s.
Plus, this fixes the switch between barrage1, barrage2, barrage1, barrage2, barrage1, barrage2, if one just spams barrage at the beginning of the fight.
The only other way (besides fixing barrage) is adding a CD to all kinds of barrage after first barrage3. But thats clearly and obviously annoying.
I wanted to see
"Lingering Wound is now double the base initial application damage and the bleed is scaled up to reflect the current version of the game and the LW legacy now goes to 150%"
Instead I read the bleed has LOWERED damage.
All bleeds.
Why is this not per-skill and as-needed?
They are not working on yellow line, yet. They normalized some of yellow skill damage. Apparently LW. LW damage is scaling much better, as strong as BA/Exs. on live it is about 6300 per tick, on BR it was in the same range as BA (about 11000, initial bleed tick is gone though). But LW was bugged on BR: It didn't stack anymore. Debufftooltip tiered up, but damage stayed the same. Wounded Prey damage increased with each tier, though.
LW legacy doesn't need to be that high, but being in the same range like every other legacy would be great(29,2% or even 58,4% like HS). But before that we'll have to wait what will happen with LW and yellow in general. If it will tier up again or even stack there is no need of a strong legacy. But enough about yellow now, it is getting too much OT. This beta version is about blue and red.
After my initial review of Blue line changes, I tried Red.
Though this is not super productive to finding the balance, I still want to say it.
I have not logged back into BR or Live. (well I did log in for a second on live and just couldnt do it)
Change is hard and I fully get that and understand it.... but having to relearn, respec and re-grind are just too much (for me).
No drama llama here... I am sure I will recover, eventually, but I will not be first to make changes or cheerleading how to do it to world chat.
I guess the balance will be, class changes that encourage players to join the game vs class changes that causes players to leave.
Love the game and always will. Just my .02
I feel the same. I really like the blue line barrage mechanic the way that it is. I have never had this much fun on my hunter. I wish it had been improved and not removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAWorking
I've tried to collate my thoughts here, along with why I think so many people have a hard time understanding the frustration:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...83#post7835083
Having said that, I've got other action figures in my toy box to play with, so its not the end of the world. It is just the end of a certain way of playing lotro that I have found appealing. Having equivalent DPS numbers really doesn't matter if you don't find the new red line mechanics enjoyable. The current mobile/relentless/tiering mechanic is what has made hunters fun again, imo. I wish more players would stop talking numbers game and start asking is this really how I want to play the game?
In my mind, the problem is that at lower tiers (1-3) barrage does too much damage, making blue line hunter ridiculously OP on the landscape. But in t2c raid environments, trying to reach/maintain the higher tiers of barrage 3 is where things get interesting. Right now, this mechanic seems fairly well balanced for fights like Fingar. Doing high parses takes dedication and skill, but not so much that people with limited time can't get start with a simple 2-5 skill rotation. All of the hunters in my circle have made steady improvements to their parses since Mordor came out. They did that by practicing and experimenting with different skill combinations just like people have always done. If an adjustment needs to be made I would rather barrage become a more transparent 6-7+ tier system, with lower damage at the start and a higher payout at the top. Delay how long it takes for barrage to really wreck an opponent, and you have alleviated concerns about hunters being too op on landscape and in the moors. But please keep the relentless attack style of barrage the way it is.
Well... they could let barrage as is, but reduce barrages basedamage by 70% or something like that... so that fully tiered up, it would by roughly 50% better than penshot. That way, it wouldnt be that OP and could stay... but do you really want that? To have the first 3 barrages deal less damage than a penshot?Quote:
Originally Posted by keztryl
otherwise: just +5% or +10% damage per tier, instead of +30% or +60%. would be fine, too, and not change the playstyle.
I have an even more wild solution. Revert hunters back to Pre-Trait Tree's so I can run 4r3b + Fleetness again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oelle
Get rid of casting-while-moving in Blue line as well. Bad player handicap for an already easy class to get comfortable on.
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I mean, to make it more exciting, I think it would be cool if the higher tiers of barrage had a shorter window (to either be maintained or to allow barrage to bumped to the next tier), making the damage of the higher tiers equal to the challenge of sustaining them. But the basic mechanic is gratifying to me. I also like having only 5-6 skills in my main rotation, barrage, barbed arrow, improved penetrating shot, blood arrow, exsanguinate, and quick shot, allowing for greater movement, with the need for skills like burn hot, merciful shot (corruption removal), purge poison, and power restore skills resulting in a loss of focus (both literally, in terms of my attention, and virtually, in terms of the game mechanics) or risk some negative consequence. If we need to make this mechanic more challenging, I would prefer to see escalating damage come with increased risk (maybe something like higher tiers having increased threat, thus bringing back the need for beneath notice, or player regulated threat management), but in terms of DPS output, it is my understanding that the intention is to keep the numbers more or less the same (i.e., no "nerf"). I would also say, timing wise, I don't really feel like blue line hunters should have to relearn their rotation again only to produce the same amount of DPS. Why can't red line just be improved, giving players a new/different play style to explore? Why must all hunters who want to raid be forced to play the same way? Why aren't the other two lines being made equally viable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oelle
I would very much like to see at least one attempt on Bullroarer where they keep barrage on a short cooldown, and where they just tweak the numbers and percentages (Or just hardcode it to a limit of a maximum of three tiers without cooldowns, that should be possible.).Quote:
Originally Posted by keztryl
I feel most blue hunters will agree barrage is too strong right now, but at the same time at least a number of them, I myself as well, do like the general play style of the blue line!
Blue line at least needs to have a balance between skills that generate and consume focus, and with this first built that balance was gone mostly!
If barrage will keep a long cooldown, then blue line will need more focus consuming skills, or a redesign of focus generation and consumption!
Ideally that would mean more skills as without barrage on cooldown for around 70% of the time, we will be left with a simpler rotation. I'm not sure that fits in the scope of a balance pass!
I do like your idea of increasing risk with the continued use of barrage! Threat is a nice way to do that! Maybe another idea would be to decrease the efficience of survival skills the more barrage is used!
In general terms of dps I do feel blue should be a bit below the red line, as blue does have it's movement advantage!
Ideally new group content will be designed in such a way that both lines can have an advantage in different fights!
Radical suggestion. Get rid of one of the Hunter's trait trees. They both do the same thing anyway, ranged damage on (mainly) a single target. Just give us one and a toggle skill that applies a small penalty to damage or whatever and allows us to move. No more flip-flopping from red better than blue to blue better than red, etc., and less fuss to gear for and to keep in balance with other classes.
After this they both will be useful so play what playstyle suits you better. Nothing wrong in that, having ability to do that just makes class more rich from gameplay perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair6
Probably more logical to ask for one to be tweaked to focus on dealing AoE damage whilst the other focuses ST. You'd then have two useful trees and yellow champs might get some competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair6
Design already works. For most of this games content blue will simply be better while red line is the peak damage used in minority of content in this game. Nothing wrong with that approach. What they need to do is really get yellow cc up to sniff at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Yes, I thought about adding that but let's not give them too much to do right now. They could add that later or maybe think of something else. Maybe our melee weapons could become more useful than just buff sticks. Who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Yeah, yeah. I'm just loathe to let champs sit around with 0 AoE DPS competition. I have a similar problem with captains not really having any competition for their brand of support either. It just bugs me.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
yes it bugs me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Yet another option for Barrage, would be to have Barrage3 reset the skill to Barrage when it is fired. This would essentially make it a sequential skill. It would still have the current damage it carries on the live servers, but would effectively take away the extra tiering. This would allow you to maintain the rotation, while scaling back the crazy damage higher Barrages can get in to. Instead of having Barrage going 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.. it would be 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3 and so on. From there, they could tweak some of the other skills and traits to bring the potential DPS of blue-line into the range they want.
Its not so much about DPS and the rotation as what I experience when I play the class. Producing a sustained "barrage" of attacks should require enough real life focus that "tunnel vision" has a real possibility of setting in. In choosing to do more damage (by constantly cycling between barrage and other proc'd skills that do damage or build focus, good "situational awareness" should become harder to maintain (especially if you are constantly moving). Because focus building is based on crits and procs the dynamic is fluid and not always going to go your way. But the whole thrill of the dynamic disappears when you remove the reward of higher tiers. You are left just standing there doing a fixed rotation, caught in a repeating loop. There is no escalation of damage potential or risk of dps loss. This is what I feel gets lost every time the Devs try to balance DPS by removing the existing mechanics. Champs and hunters no longer feel like glass cannons whose DPS choices could have seriously negative consequences for themselves and the group. The mechanic no longer seduces you to play as recklessly, and this for me is where the boredom comes in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caanjaal
Alot of talk here about blue line. But what about red? Is the DPS up on this line?
I just don't have it in me to grind yet another LI. Think I'll be playing other classes more.
There was some indication from testing that it is up a bit. However, that may have based on the heartseeker reset bonus which is back on the table with the demise of barrage. The the fate of the heartseeker bonus may itself be up in the air, so it's hard to know exactly where things stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowlock
That's not great news for me. I've always been red line, never liked heartseeker. If they want to buff red line's damage other than a flat increase across the board, I'd rather see them boost quickshot and swift bow. Or they can put the damage back on barbed arrow and add barbed hindrance to it, and that'd be okay as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKenny
That is why we have DIFFERENT classes, the logical end of your supposition is 1 class for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhorn_EU
You stated that you loathe having champs with no competition for AOE dps, that is the primary role of the champion, that is what that class is for. As with the captain class, it is designed as a support class, that is it's job, to make everyone else better. This is why different people choose different classes to play; they want different things from the game. If every class could do aoe dps, buff, support and heal, it would be a very very boring game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
No, that's not what champions are for. That's what yellow line is for, on a champion. Can you seriously not see the difference? Red line is a single target spec. Champions are a single target DPS spec, or an AoE DPS spec, or a tanking spec. They're not an AoE class. How is that not obvious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhorn_EU
Of course the game wouldn't be boring if every spec was viable. They all have different ways of achieving their goal.
Every spec being viable doesn't mean that every class is the same.
Oh give it a rest, just be honest and say that you want your god-mode turret Hunter.
What's really messed up is Cordovan coming in and making a comment on a class that I've never seen him play with any degree of proficiency.
Just a little comment to the Devs from a player who doesn't pvp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Unilateral changes geared towards pvp only are disgusting.
Here's an idea, change your game mechanics so that EVERYTHING changes when you enter pvp. That should keep any who complain and whine about whatever busy.
Leave pve alone. Stop forcing those of us who work, etc., to relearn the entire gist of this game.
Again, this is a comment to the Devs only, not the remainder of you. I won't be back for your ... comments.
Nothing in this game is ever changes because of PvP. If it were, burglars would be the first to get nerfed, not hunters. But guess what? Burglars were left untouched. It is such a ludicrous assertion, you should be embarrassed. Blue hunters are equally dumb in PvE, and that's why the change is being made. Not because of PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namma
None of these changes are made for pvp... To your knowledge game used to do bigger changes to classes than this every year for first 4-5 years of its existence. Every year meta was rerolled and classes tweaked with heavy hand. This is barely anything. Only post hd we have had extremely disgusting no work on classes. Before this it was normal for every expansion to change classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namma
All this math is wonderful but it doesn't mean a thing to me. Why? Because I don't play end-game content. Yeah, I am one of those casual players and an altoholic. In fact, I have something like a hundred alts on seven servers and two accounts. My sweet spot for playing LOTRO isn't 106 to 115, it is 20 to 60. I don't do PvMP, Raids, Skirms or multiple trips through the Great Barrow. I am not worried about sustained DPS, I don't worry about running out of Power, I don't design my LIs for the Blue Line or the Red Line. I don't hunt out specific pieces of gear that decreases induction times for Heart Shot or anything else. I am a solo player and love it.
So, here's my very brief and very telling take on the changes that are coming ... yes, I say coming, because SSG is not going to take the advice of anyone like me because I don't do end-game. My experiment was simple, no training dummies, no calculations, just a straight up comparison between two characters. Character 1 is live, Character 2 is BR. Both are elves, both are hunters, both are using the Blue Line.
Character 1: Basic Barrage: 613 - 641
Character 2: Basic Barrage: 179 - 279
Character 1: Penetrating Shot: 613 - 641
Character 2: Penetrating Shot: 175 - 272
Character 1: Bow has 30 - 54 damage range with 19.1 DPS; -5% induction
Character 2: Bow has 38 - 69 damage range with 53.8 DPS (that's what is says); -2.5% induction, +92 crit rating
Both killing mobs in West of Bree, mob level level is 15. Character 1, mostly one shot. Character 2, as many as four shots. Both characters are level 20.
Question: Why, with a better bow, does character 2 now do one half and less damage than character 1?
Question: Why is it taking character 2 as much as four times as long to kill a mob that she out-levels by five levels? (though for that, the damage explains it, but I had several shots actually deflected by bears)
SSG, my math is simple. I am a low level player that you're screwing over in a major way. I can see adjustments are always necessary but to cut my damage to less than one half? That's pretty drastic isn't it?
Oh, and I don't need, or want, Press Onward in the blue line at all, leave me Strong Draw. And why did you move Precision so deep into the Blue line? Improved Intent Concentration roots me to a spot and has a 30 sec cool down. I rarely use it now. Honestly, as a blue line hunter, I live for the level I can get Precision, so thanks for making that level somewhere in Moria now instead of the Lone Lands.
As a casual, non end-game player, I find your ideas on changes needed in the blue line to be like a Republican Tax cut. Good for the high end people at the expense of the lower and middle class. ... and I thought Trait Trees were a stupid idea ...
Hmm that makes sense if they want to kill the grind for Lps. Ered Luin = Mini or Hunter rinse and repeat but if your expierence is right it will get serious nerfed. I was expecting something like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Archer
You raise an excellent point - basically all of the changes, and almost all of the testing, is focused exclusively on end game characters and content. No consideration is given to the implications of changes for lower level characters. So, based on your comments, it appears that hunters are going way down in terms of landscape effectiveness in lower levels. Unfortunately it is doubtful that it will have any impact on what changes ultimately go live. I expect the usual gang of cheerleaders will post that you're totally wrong and you should be able to slay on level sig mobs with a frying pan and if you cannot then it's all your fault, l2p etc. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Archer
Except champs will be better at it than ever. I expect the usual suspects will be just fine with that. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimar
Wow, this is the kind of game destroying effect that I was afraid of. Changes made with no regard to how they really affect everything in the game from top to bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Archer
Where do your end game players come from? Most will level up and with numbers like that, far fewer people will stick with this game meaning game death in years to come, but still eventual game death.
Excellent post, nice range on your numbers too, Definitely an A.
Level 20 you say? Let me go find some level 20ish mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Archer
Yeah...I think there might be a problem with that Character 1: Basic Barrage value...
Ermm.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiasKirk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Archer
Your right about that, but doing 1/4 damage is going to make things go slower. Not sure why you can't see his pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
...yes....things will go slower....Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiasKirk
They're not going to be slow though, are they? In fact they're still gonna be pretty quick. Actually, it does seem like Hunter is now roughly in line with red champion at level 20:
https://i.imgur.com/UB9hf6F.jpg
And
https://i.imgur.com/H34hW91.jpg
Both using their respective level 20 sets from the tavern dude with 5 ranks of their primary stat tomes applied.
So kudos to the devs for doing some low level comparative class balnce there.
Wish they would halve skill damage/double morale pools of mobs on lower levels. Gameplay is simply boring till very high levels, after if you gear yourself even mediocre its still boring lol. One shotting mob on lower levels is not fun gameplay. I would rather just skip that BS if combat doesn't matter.
Then neither of you get it, changes like this cause player dissatisfaction. Making it take longer to level up isn't going to help the game sustain its player base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Low level game play isn't about shooting mobs on the landscape, its about learning mechanics and fundamentals, which doesn't take very long. Its already boring as some people say.
Making it take longer isn't a move in the right direction.
Wrong. World of Warcraft recently increased mob health drastically, initially to the dismay of everyone. A week or so after the update, however, people found out that the leveling experience had become much more enjoyable. Granted, this was also due to another factor, but clearly, taking longer to level isn't nearly as detrimental to the leveling experience as you claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiasKirk
And one can totally start learning the fundamentals of a rotation whilst 1 shotting mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiasKirk
People will definitely be dissatisfied with anything though.
I don't think either of us know what level the one shotting will stop, but it will stop and if people WANT TO practice their rotation they can always do it against a training dummy or do something more challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
It isn't for us to decide how much someone else needs to practice. This is a function of player dedication, not a requirement to play a game casually.
I'm more concerned with long term survival of the game than if everyone is forced to get good at it.
I started leveling a new hunter when the U19 changes kicked in. 1 shots have so far continued up to level 81, they might stop around 90 due to mob morale ballooning in HD and beyond.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiasKirk
Are you seriously implying that low to mid-level hunters one-shotting everything in sight is good game design and taking this away will destroy the game?!Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiasKirk
Wow Can afford to loose players. Comparing our player base to theirs is like comparing a truck full of apples to a few oranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giliodor
Wow has maybe still 10 million players.
Steam numbers are in the thousands. With a player base that is more than 10 times bigger for sure, most probably 100 times bigger or more, they can do what they want.
They might have made a business decision to limit the player base based on limited hardware resources.
If LOTRO is doing that with a much smaller player base the game is likely going to die sooner than later.
Perhaps this is already mentioned in another form earlier in this topic, but today I logged in at Bullroarer with my longtime Hunter toon, on which I never stopped playing the Red line. I did not do extensive test or calculations, just making sure that the changed traits were optimized again. All other things were exactly the same as on live (I also had just one base damage rune), and unfortunately one thing really stood out as a not-so-pleasant difference:
Improved penetrating shot tiptool minimum damage on live: around 20K
Improved penetrating shot tiptool minimum damage on Bullroarer: around 15K
That is quite a nerf I'd say. Am i missing something here? Swift Bow Damage is upped a little bit, that's good, but does not compensate for base damage change in Penetrating shot this big.
My penshot has 3% higher tooltip with freshly transferred character on bullroarer from 25,375 -> 26,142 max range. It must be related to how they changed LIs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bragolos
Please explain what is wrong with my numbers. Everything is taken right off the tool tips in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
Crickhollow -
Level 20 Hunter
Basic Barrage: 633 - 667
Penetrating Shot: 633 - 667
Level 23 Hunter
Basic Barrage: 748 - 789
Penetrating Shot: 748 -789
Gladden
Level 21 Hunter
Basic Barrage: 671 - 704
Penetrating Shot: 671 704
So, what's wrong with my numbers?
This! SSG is missing the boat if they want it to take longer to reach end-game where all the big money is grinding through your LIs and stuff. Or this just a ploy to get me to buy more XP boosters so I can reach end-game to buy more scrolls and junk at 115? It is sad if you start frustrating new, or older, players at the very beginning by slowing things down and making it a grind on BOTH ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by TiberiasKirk
They are larger than on-level mob morale pools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Archer
So, cut them by 10% or 20% or whatever, but 50% and more? Come on ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
10% doesn't stop the 1 shotting. 20% barely puts you under. I feel like you know the problem but don't want it addressed properly here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost_Archer
Wow. You walk away from this forum for a few days and there are ton of comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwenwing
I never seriously considered the advantages of blue line movement because I mostly do t2c PVE raiding. These raids have largely been designed to accommodate red line hunters and RKs (i.e., there are no mechanics that require nuking classes to move as fast as a blue hunter can; even RKs can DPS Fingar), with the speed and damage of bosses/mobs largely nullifying any movement advantages blue line hunters may have. But seeing all of the PvP comments, and having chatted with my friends who PvP, I'm inclined to agree that in these environments blue line hunters have become too OP.
What I would suggest, though, is that instead of removing the tiering system of barrage, why not add a movement debuff that would increase with each tier? A debuff that increases at a rate of -10% movement speed per tier, would mean that when a hunter reaches tier 6 of barrage their movement speed would be reduced by half. This would make tiering up barrage a strategic choice. Do you press the attack or do you keep yourself free to kite? In the moors and in 3/6 man instances this would make blue line hunters more vulnerable if they choose to push the offensive, but still allow them to complete with other nuking classes when DPSing in raids. In my mind, this mechanic would be more dynamic, especially if barrage was not as powerful initially. -50% movement speed might be too high (it would depend on what type of damage the top tier would do), but the principle of potential benefit to risk should be in this direction. I also think this change would make intuitive sense. As you attempt to keep up an "endless" barrage of attacks, you cannot sustain the energy needed to move. If blue line hunters are still too OP, a reduction in defensive stats (parry/evade) could also be added.
Lvl 59 Hunter, Red Line, Precision stance
Pen shot Live 1,923-2037
Pen shot BR 545-834
Upshot live 3,898-4,069
Upshot BR 969-1483
and etc.
Parked.
Took the silly hunter I made for earlier in this thread up to level 58 to check out how this tooltip damage increase plays out:Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair6
https://i.imgur.com/pOAdVBW.jpg
I was pretty lazy with actually setting it up (try not to look at the toolbars). All in all it seems to be a pretty good change, mobs are taking anywhere between 4-12 hits to take down. Feels like rotation might actually matter here. Will say that the barrage cooldown does come off as being a little weird in practice although I kinda like that it pushes you into using a more varied selection of skills. At least it does until you get improved penshot, will probably end up spamming that when I get it here.
There does seem to be a general problem of mob DPS being too low though. In an area where I had 3.5k morale the mobs were barely doing 50DPS to me. Whilst I wasn't nuking through them like you do on live they still didn't feel like a threat at all.
Vastin is a numbers guy. All he is taking into consideration here is algorithms and numbers output.
What he is not considering here is what this will do to the community of hunters in this game that play this class regardless of the ebbs and flows of the flavors of the month classes as they cycle in and out of the spotlight throughout the life of the game.
Nerfing hunter damage is not nerfing all damage. And what I mean by that is, all this is going to do is create a vacuum at the position of top DPS'ers among the classes to be filled by another class. Hunters, the players that actually love playing their hunter, will go back to being not wanted in groups and food for creeps in PVP. Meanwhile the hunter players that only play hunter because they are the FOTM class, will just switch to whatever the FOTM class becomes. And the complaints from the creeps and from the raiders complaining about how easy endgame content is will continue. Why? Because this phenomenon is not reflected in a number!! This isn't math, this is sociology, psychology. This isn't going to change anything, fix anything, or make anyone happy. It's simply going to shift the complaints, in equal volume, over to a different class.
And meanwhile it completely F's over the players that actually play the class because they love it.
Hunter DPS is still ostensibly at the top. Would really like it if some hunters could go run parses on the tavern dummies and display screenshots here so we can get an accurate glimpse of where each class stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowlock
It seems to be even better than how it is on live servers, but they will remove HS reset gear and add a couple of new focus consuming skills so who knows how it will look like after U23.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HlL8h9y.jpg
Really need the 3m parses without HS reset gear though. Closest we have on forums at the moment is a half finished 45k parse from earlier in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf2x
They're adding new skills? I hadn't read that. WHere's that info?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf2x
Too lazy to continue parsing on a class rotation as boring as hunters, even more boring without HSQuote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
I think I heard Cordovan mention it on lotro stream but I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowlock
True. In groups, with buffs from Cappies, etc....our DPS should still be at the top. But RKs and Burgs haven't had their moment under the Devs microscopes yet, and I'm sure RKs will be recouping some of that nerf they took from the loss of the Tac runes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joedangod
I did run a bunch of parses on the tavern dummies, as you guys suggested in that other BR thread.....or at least I tried to. I couldn't get a single clean parse on any of the dummies. Every one I tried I'd have about 1/3 of my shots not fire and have to re-key the skill, then they would never give a read on DPS and I'd be locked in combat until I relogged. Not sure if there is just some mechanic I missed, that is different on these dummies, or if it was lag or whatever. After a couple hours of trying, finally got sick of it and went and tried the summer instances with Bludborn.
Try a dummy with a yellow health bar. The red ones (which are already missing health) reset at random.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caanjaal
Ahhh....Will do. Hopefully it will still be up tonight. Thx for the info!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Giliodor
This message appeared a lil while ago ingame:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caanjaal
World broadcast: 'The server will be shutting down in approximately one hour! Please post your feedback on the forums!'
EDIT: 30 minutes left now
ROFL!!! OK, I guess next week then. Thx!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmelin
I agree. I feel like there are very different definitions of "class balance" at play. I think for some Devs/Players, class balance maybe meant something like each DPS class being able to do the same amount of DPS. On the other hand, I think a lot of players believed that class balance would improve parity between lines (tank lines, dps lines, and support lines) allowing them to enjoy parts of the game (and their class) that they feel have never reached their full potential or were once great but have now been lost. Of course some classes are in such a bad spot that having a least 1 working line would come as a welcome improvement (i.e., Beorning). But what we got with with this first round of changes is a statement that blue line hunter isn't intended for "end game" (with a reduction in blue mechanics), meaning that instead of getting two distinct DPS lines, hunters are still only going to have one that is really effective, and not necessarily the one they enjoy. I think this a problem (as you say, from a psychological perspective) because even if red line is improved to compensate, a lot of players are still going to feel like they have lost out. There have been no gain in choices or possible ways of playing the class. If you want to play end game content, you will have to learn to crank out those high DPS numbers in the same optimal way as everyone else (but of course, you are still going to have to work this out for yourself!). I think the only way for this to work is if they make the new red line really fun. Like no standing around with your hands in your quiver. There needs to be something dynamic, like HS reset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowlock
I don't blame the Devs (or think there is much value in doing so). The implementation of trait lines, which from a programming perspective was likely intended to curtail the interaction of endless capstone trait combos (and thus reduce the complexity of introducing future class changes), has effectively resulted in 30 distinct sub classes from what use to be 10. To make things worse... classes that use to have the same skills (to my recollection, champions's challenge used to work exactly the same as captain's threatening shout) have had those skills individualized to create even more distinct paths that need to be compared. At the same time, classes like hunter, which were purposefully intended to be simple, had to have entirely new mechanics built that are still not working as intended despite becoming very popular over the past few years (barrage, anthem stacking, etc.). I'm sure there are a lot of people at SSG who have thought about how they might try to bring some order back to this chaos, but the devil is in the details and there are a lot of variables at play. Best we can do is give them some room, and provide honest feedback.
I think some players want "objective" (and definitive) evidence, but objectivity in this sense requires that I am able to independently create the same numbers as you (i.e., the result is independent of the person making the claim) using a procedure we both agree would answer a question of mutual interest. The numbers posted on the forums are just peoples' experiences. They can provide support for one's opinion but other people need to agree to with the premise of what you are testing before they can assess the claim that is being made. Demonstrating that red line is now able to do high dps is irrelevant if you no longer want to play either because of the change. I think unless something is added to make either line fun again, I'll be parking my hunter for now.
Here's a parse with no hs-reset, no BB-set, no DA set, no pot:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...nShot00033.jpg
Did quite many parses before reaching this, i'd say average high parse with no setbonuses on BR patch 2 was around 47-49k. With BB-set+DA set before combat i got 53k-56k. Didn't try hs-reset.
Also tried a few blue hunter parses both without BB-set, and with BB-set and DA set, no screenshots of these. Traited 10% bodkin in blue:
BB-set + DA set before combat was 45-47k
no setbonus blue hunter 41-44k
OK so just went through my previous posts and I was right! I have been asking for yellow line fixes for YEARS haha. I enjoy the yellow playstyle, its tactical. It just doesn't work at high levels because it doesn't scale. Can we please make it scale? i don't need to be top dps, I just want to be viable.
I've been thinking about this, what do you all think about changing barrage to a very high damage 1 shot aoe attack that would cost 9 focus ? the definition of a barrage is:
I've been working on the hunter quite a bit over the last several days, and I have to admit, it's been tricky.
I'm trying to get more skills into the viable rotation for both blue and red, and at the same time, I'm trying to get the focus generation mechanic to be a little more meaningful.
For some time now, precision stance has been the go-to due to its focus generation being massive, allowing you to pretty much spam focus skills like barrage or pen shot with little consequence. I'm adjusting two things regarding focus generation - the precision trait is being weakened somewhat, and the Deadly Precision trait is moving much further up the red tree, making it difficult or impossible to get both.
I've been playing with the pacing and damage of the focus building shots, such as making quick shot a non-inducted skill so you always have a quick go-to to grab another point or two of focus, and speeding up swift bow a bit. I've also experiemented with the re-introduction of penetrating shot as a target debuff, increasing the target's vulnerability to ranged crits and physical damage.
I've been running a lot of damage parses to try and get Barrage and Upshot respectively into respectable portions of each build's DPS output. Upshot is a little tricky as it could end up being a really nasty one-shot skill if I don't manage it correctly. I may have to redesign it a bit - full one shot focus dumps may just not work out well when focus is a more valuable resource.
Anyway, not quite where I want it yet, but some of the rotations are starting to feel interesting.
-Vastin
Thank you for your work on the hunter class Vastin!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
It will be interesting to see what you come up with for the next build!
More skills for our rotations sounds really good! And I really the idea of Quickshot having no induction and Penetrating Shot increasing a target's vulnerability to ranged crits and physical damage!
Please don't forget yellow, although you are focusing on red/blue right now. Adding this debuff to penetrating shot should be something for yellow not red/blue, since yellow is the debuffing/CC support line. Otherwise It will stay the way it is since HD. Yellow has -60% dps compared to red/blue and +20% support(debuff/CC) not a fair trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Making Quick Shot instant seems to take away the whole idea behind the class. Induction skills generate focus, and instant casts consume focus. I think it would be wise to stick to that formula.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
In my view, the best way to make Upshot impactful without making it a one-hit skill would be to make it interact with another skill. Particularly, Heart-seeker (HS). Without using the Throne 4-piece for HS reset, HS isn't used frequently in the hunter's rotation.Quote:
I've been running a lot of damage parses to try and get Barrage and Upshot respectively into respectable portions of each build's DPS output. Upshot is a little tricky as it could end up being a really nasty one-shot skill if I don't manage it correctly. I may have to redesign it a bit - full one shot focus dumps may just not work out well when focus is a more valuable resource.
Anyway, not quite where I want it yet, but some of the rotations are starting to feel interesting.
-Vastin
Consider this: Make Upshot interact with HS, such that every cast of Upshot with 9 focus applies a stack of some buff. At X number of stacks, the cool down on HS is reset, and made instant. This would make Upshot meaningful, it would make the rotation more interesting, and it would bring back the aspect that many hunters like about the Throne 4-piece.
Just be careful that the DPS isn't overtuned.
Perhaps reintroducing the old -3s swift bow set bonus as a trait would help improve things there? It had a neat interaction with the 10s free swift bow usage granted by Swift and True allowing you to potentially fire off two free swift bows rather than one. Admittedly it might lead to holding back on swift bow usage as people could end up waiting on the buff to proc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
By the way I love the coloured text, makes it much easier to spot the dev post in the list.
Ok, Precision stance: nerf in red line will most likely mean we're going back to blue, unless you nerf the focus generation of Precision stance, which would mean a plain nerf to the hunter dps (again). Tbh there's so much rework to be done if you change precision stance, for instance average hit of precision stance is way higher than strength stance. Basically strength stance gives only ~10% base damage increase, while precision gives 37% crit magnitude which is huge and you would prefer using precision stance even if it gave 0 focus. I'd say rework strength stance into affecting base damage rather than mastery % increase, else hunter will be really in a worse position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
About instant quick shot I think it's not that great idea since it alters the class basics of inductions generating focus, but we could get used to it. Penetrating shot being able to debuff might be a good idea and will probably help increase our dps a lot.
Barrage: It's simple, if you make this skill useful again even if that means being only able to use barrage 3 instead of barrage 3x3 then blue will be the line to go and you were trying to move the highest dps line to red.
Upshot and Heart Seeker: Honestly these skills are not even worth traiting on live. HS induction just makes it not contribute at all to our dps and it's only usefull if using with a HS reset or a Volley proc. On last beta build the cooldown wasn't that bad given each crit reduces it by 2 s and each devastate by 4s, so it had an effective cooldown of 20-30s, which is nice. Upshot just consumes all focus, have a terrible post animation delay and does not deal that much damage, it barely deals a bit more than blood arrow. My suggestions (only one of them, not all of them at the same time):
- Make Heart seeker have no induction or a really quick induction and give Upshot a huge bleed to add some damage to it (if you just give them both significant damage to be used in raid environment then they will be able to oneshot almost everything in PVP).
- Implement some Synergic mechanic between the two skills like upshot makes next HS inductionless and well.
- Give Upshot only 3 focus cost and HS have an induction similar to quick shot.
- Make give HS a huge focus generation in its current state and upshot apply a buff to you, or maybe reduce cooldown of Burn hot significantly, so even if you lose damage it's worth using.
The problem is when you start by making the following statement:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
which is grossly inaccurate it doesn't inspire much confidence in your ability to rip apart and reassemble hunter skills and end up with something that actually works. Again, as everyone who actually plays hunter well knows, barrage is not and never was a "1-button rotation". Nor does the cooldown create a more complicated rotation. Since you've clearly demonstrated that you lack the necessary understanding to successfully accomplish the stated objectives, my advice is to simply leave it as it is, and use blue hunter, along with red RK, as the dps baseline as was stated previously. Having said all that I know very well you're not going to do that. You're going to rip apart hunter and what you end up with will most likely be a barely recognizable mess that will take a long time to properly sort out.
In fact, what issues actually exist (and they are clearly not the ones you perceive) are the direct result of the nature of the U19 changes. At that time I suggested starting with simply boosting all hunter damage by 50% across the board. That would have left the relationship between blue and red intact (i.e. red with higher dps) and red already at the time had a more complicated rotation. However it was someone's bright idea to boost focus skill damage by a huge amount (up to 100% increase) while boosting induction much less. It was that change that resulted in blue having higher dps, as blue was always about using primarily focus skills and avoiding induction as much as possible. The blue rotation remained pretty much as it always had, it just did a lot more damage because of the boost to focus skills vs. induction skills. But now you propose the ham-fisted "solution" of adding the 20 sec CD to barrage which effectively destroys the blue rotation yet completely fails to achieve the stated goal of a more complicated rotation. Rather than continuing to grope around in the dark vainly attempting to find a solution, why not just take hunter back to pre-U19 and then boost damage across the board (both focus and induction equally) to whatever is deemed the appropriate level. That should restore the pre-U19 red rotation that was both more "interesting" and the top hunter dps and would avoid having to re-invent the wheel. However, I expect that you're set in your course and that is perhaps more interesting for you. I have no intention of being the subject of your experiments however. Good luck!
This. Skill should have induction. If he feels it's too long as induction maybe take 0.2s off from it or something. But still should have induction even if it would be barely visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giliodor
Have you logged bullroarer and you are aware hunter is mostly barrage + complimentary shots, what ever it's. Barrage is in live the by far the main tool that produces grossly most of the damage. Thus saying barrage is the one skill spam rotation. Just like penshot is on bullroarer. Sure you use more skills but it's still one skill spam rotation. That's why nerfs are needed to rotation and reason to use other skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKenny
Your statement is barely coherent and self-contradictory. What is on BR is completely irrelevant with respect to my statement. The claim I was disputing was regarding live, and I disputed the claim because it is incorrect. Beyond that, perhaps you and the rest of the cheerleading squad should spend less time telling others to go on BR and test and do more of that yourself. I haven't seen you post anything beyond your usual unsubstantiated claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by siipperi
Good to hear!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Strenght Stance could use some major attention:
+49.2% Ranged Damage can't compete against passive focus generation, +37% Critical Magnitude and Quickshot: +22.5% Critical Chance & bonus focus generation
Nerf the Precision trait from [2, 3] Focus every 5s down to 1 Focus every [4s, 3s].-> Passive Generation is cut in half but will happen more frequently
Don't make Quick Shot inductionless.
We should actively generate focus with Induction Bow skills and consume focus with Focus Bow skills.
Able to use Focus Bow skills is the pay off for inducting and low the damage of Induction Bow skills. Execptions are Heart Seeker and Swift Bow which have longish CDs.
Heh. I came to much the same place as you as I laid out the changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geventh
I'm changing the strength stance to be a BASE multiplier, which is a lot more effective (though I do have to reduce its magnitude a bit), and you managed to guess exactly where I was going with the precision trait change, so kudos there.
I did end up keeping an induction on quick shot, but it is very short. This works out well as a spam focus generator for red line, particularly as it has two chances to generate extra focus (30% chance of a +1, and a chance to generate one off a crit). I also added a long bleed on heartseeker to give it more heft.
Overall I'm now pleased with the base rotation and the proportion of damage coming from the various skills.
My version of the red line rotation looks like PenShot->SwiftBow->Upshot->BarbedArrow->QuickShot(x2-3 depending)->PenShot->... Insert the occasional HeartSeeker, or dump out to blood arrow to heal. Need to take a look at merciful shot though, as I doubt it's worth hitting at 6 focus right now when Upshot hits so much harder at 9. That may have to wait for a later pass however as time runs short.
-Vastin
Seems like the Barrage 20s CD is written in stone now. :(
Maybe Palantir were against it too as rumours were posted before the BR#1 notes.
I'd like to get back to the old huntsman rapid rate of fire mostly focus skills against the big hitting slower bowmaster inductions. Passive traits early in the trees could do this and be quicker to tweak later. But tone down barrage, don't kill it.
On the bright side at least we don't have to make and be encumbered by quivers of arrows. Really old school.
Mac
That sounds pretty cool but merciful shot tbh shouldn't be so much of a problem when every swift bow will reduce its focus cost by 1 and its base damage is way higher (at least on last beta) than upshot max focus and crit magnitude is extremely high, so technically you could use every merciful shot with a 4 focus cost instead of 6, anyways I would like to see swift bow cooldown reduced by a bit, like it having 6s cd instead of 10 so we could use the swift and true buff for 2 swift bows instead of 1. Strength stance applying buffs to base magnitude will help a lot, thanks for that and I would be really curious what the final rotation ends up being, because atm blood arrow is worth using over pen shot when it's off cooldown (also given the chance to use exsanguinate which is probably the hardest hitting skill of the hunter after Heart seeker with the bleed), still did upshot get buffed drastically? because I see no point on using upshot if you can use 3-4 pen shot instead, on last beta I think upshot had a base max damage on my hunter of around 37k full focus, while pen shot had nearly the same, or use pen shot + quick shot to keep the reduced induction quickshot nearly instant with -30% induction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Ok, I'm kinda out of time on this pass, but I'm pretty happy with where things ended up mechanically. I'm sorta nervous about actual final DPS numbers though - mine never match up with your guys very well, mostly because I don't have the time to hyper-optimize my gear and traiting, so I'm always well below the optimized parses. Hopefully they are at least in the ballpark. :p
Anyway, here's what happened:
Hunter Update Pass 2
* This update pass ended up actually being more substantial than the first.
* Focus generation heavily tweaked. Traited Precision stance generates less focus than it used to, and Deadly Precision is now much further up the Red line.
* To balance this, quick shot inductions shortened to 0.5s, and Swift Bow Induction shortened to 1.8s - this allows for a faster cadence of manual focus generation in either build, though red relies on it much more than blue.
* Skill damages changed more or less across the board to accommodate the new focus cadences.
* Pen Shot now applies a 10s debuff to the target's Inc phys damage, True Shot now traits it to add an additional ranged crit vulnerability on top of that. This buff will not stack currently.
* Pen Shot base damage decreased.
* Upshot's damage and damage multiplier per focus increased considerably. Now hits like truck. Cooldown reduced to 15s.
* Press onward and bonuses rescaled as a % health effect. Induction reduced to 1s.
* Heartseeker armor set bonus now has a 30s cooldown and a reduced proc chance (15%->10%)
* Heartseeker now has a long term bleed effect.
* Heartseeker will now consume 3 focus IF you have it - but does not require focus to fire or benefit from it. Kind of an odd experiment. Bear with me.
* Barrage now has a 2s cooldown per shot, and a 15s reset cooldown. Barrage 3 also hits brutally hard.
* Exsanguinate can now be traited to a 100% application chance (same trait cost).
My experience with them using my own fairly simplistic trait loadouts on landscape were that it really was much easier to handle landscape mobs and multi-pulls on blue, while red seemed to have a better outright optimal DPS, but kind of lousy coping mechanisms once things are up in your grill. Not sure if this will remain true once you folks start playing extensive trait and set bonus mix & match, so we'll have to see where that goes. This will hopefully be the final 'big' pass, but I do expect to be making smaller corrections in fairly short order once these changes hit the live server and we start getting more in-action feedback on how they perform.
And again, my apologies to any yellow line hunters - not enough time to address any real changes to that at the moment.
- Vastin
Glad to hear it. I had an initial LW skill damage lower than 1k on live with a geared 105 versus mobs 45 levels below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatharil
That's not a skill, it's an insult. That is the application damage.
Yep, it is about blue and about red because yellow isn't really /played
I don't agree it needs to be a low % legacy, the leg requires you to play in yellow for the effect, as opposed to headshot - an absurdly overpowered skill with the resets.
Very disappointed to not see any meaningful interaction between Upshot and Heart-seeker. However, glad to see you didn't opt to make Quick Shot instant cast. I suppose we'll have to wait to test these changes, but I'm afraid hunter DPS is going to fly way past champ/RK DPS, which isn't a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
And don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see you working on changes. Just hoped to see some interaction between Upshot and HS, or Upshot and... well, anything really.
Something to note: Upshot's cooldown is already reduced by crits/devs through the "Marksman" trait, so I feel like that cool down reduction was really unnecessary.
It sounds like hunters will have an interesting time testing these changes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Oil hunter damage is mitigated by Tactical Mitigation stat, so this debuff will not affect Fire-oil(and light) which is main for the hunter now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Debuff must be changed to +% to ranged damage i guess. And +% to melee if the idea was to buff burglars, champs and etc.
I'd like to express some concern over keeping HS reset as a set bonus on armor rather than making it a part of the traitline somehow. If HS reset contributes a notable amount to Hunter DPS you end up forming two camps, those with the set and those without. Those without the set will struggle to find groups in order to get their set in the first place. It's a bit of a raider vs casual problem where raiders will pretty easily be able to call in a favour from their kin to kit out their Hunters whilst the average player might seriously struggle and as such get passed over for groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
So your initial scope was to make the red line the main dps line of the hunter, yet you've just massively nerfed it. The red line hunter, always dependent on rapid focus generation to supplement his induction skills damage based on Stance: Precision and Deadly Precision, . So what is your point here, I don't understand anymore. Now it sounds like you want to nerf blue line below red line, and now bring red line down to blue line. That wasn't your initial scope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
This doesn't balance the change. You are asking red hunters to abandon precision stance. That means we also abandon its speed, its finesse and its crit from legacies and trait bonuses. YOu want to replace that with interruptible inductions? The fun of red line was managin focus regen with focus output. To do that we needed precision. This reads as you've just massively nerfed red line and trashed the playstyle of every hunter that was red line that knew how to play it. Am I wrong here? Because this throwaway line is huge:Quote:
To balance this, quick shot inductions shortened to 0.5s, and Swift Bow Induction shortened to 1.8s - this allows for a faster cadence of manual focus generation in either build, though red relies on it much more than blue.
Our coping mechanism was the regen of precision pared with the damge of red line. Now we're slow and hitting less often (due to lack of finesse) and less hard. How much dps do you do when you're dead all the time, exactly? Even moved Press On over to Blue, the line on the move that doesn't need to stand still and take damage.Quote:
My experience with them using my own fairly simplistic trait loadouts on landscape were that it really was much easier to handle landscape mobs and multi-pulls on blue, while red seemed to have a better outright optimal DPS, but kind of lousy coping mechanisms once things are up in your grill.
I think that better way will be - increase quick shot and barbed damage to ~x1pen shot, Swiwt bow to x2,5 pen shot. Any way nobody use swift bow with out insta cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Thinking of changing and balancing is awesome however I only see how the company is limiting the game play and it's own creativity by focusing all of the Devs efforts on making our classes stationary again. Why not add more flavor to the moors, instances and raids by making our classes move while fighting? In my opinion if SSG want to compete with other games on players interest and attention - you should make the blue line of the hunter the hard-core dps and the red line for landscape. Same goes with rks - yellow line should be the hardcore dps. Healers should have good healing skills while moving (rks, minies, beos alike). LM should cast while moving, than hiding and b/p/e would matter. This will also increase the company flexibility and creativity on planning and programing the next instances/raid. It will automatically create a challenge by itself and will make people want to work harder to fine tune the fight. It will add more tactical thinking to the fight using landscape advantages. If you are sticking on making the red line hunter great again I see zero point in discussing it's DPS outcome and how to improve it, since you are taking away all the fun from end gamers and making it dull boring and simple. Landscape solo players don't need the best DPS and wouldn't even notice the difference either way. I am sorry to be a party breaker but I only see how you will lose end-gamers in the end. To conclude, SSG should clarify their goals in this game - there is no point coding stationary fights in mid 2018 for gamers community. If you see us all as casual gamers who need to stand still and press buttons -> outcome numbers of toons doesn't matter just run simple math of morale of mob or a boss versus overall group dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Disappointment end-gamer who see how SSG takes us back to the past rather than advancing forward.
I assume this is tongue in cheek? Or should we add it to the "one skill" rotation list? If a dev can't optimize gear and traits then who can?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
Anyway, if you've broken Hunter (from my point of view) or if you expect me to spend time grinding out changes to my LIs, etc., I'll just park mine for now. So carry on. Have fun.
It's no use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatharil
LW is a proc to tier, slow ticks, slow animation, application damage extremely low, has a legacy that does little-to-nothing despite being yellow tree-specific and this is unlikely to change.
Imagine the leg going to 150% (which is not a lot when the base damage is so Eru-awfully low, heck, make it 250% max and noone would notice) or one additional bleed tick per four-five emps.
Now I hear the bleed is lowered damage instead and the legacy unchanged.
I'm not sure about the Pen Shot & Barrage changes. Will test it out when next build comes out. Some changes are looking really promising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastin
I seriously hope Upshot is balanced in terms of output whether it's for landscape or PvP. Because a one shot skills especially on such a low CD is really bad. As others have mentioned keep the old CD as you can actively reduce the CD further down.
Exsanguinate imo needs a CD reduction from 45s down to 20-30s. Keep the old proc chance.
The only thing I'm missing are some skill interactions. This could make rotation interesting and not straight forward. Also adds a small skill cap to master the class.
Incoming physical damage would include hunters, since they do physical damage that goes through fire mits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddharta