Are you satisfied with Helm's Deep expansion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andthelion

To claim Sauron was overthrown by three hobbits is a very weak argument, thas like saying Boromir was killed by a single arrow, technically he was - the last one- but thats ignoring the others that hit him, same with your analogy, would Frodo and Sam even have made it out of the old forestwithout Tom Bombadil? escapes from weathertop without Aragorn? past the Bruinen with Glorfindel and Elrond? how about Gandalfs help with the Balrog? I could go on and on, the point is, none of what they acheived could have happened without contributions from the most powerful beings in middle earth.

And since you mentioned Morgoth, just remember how the mightiest races of elves at their most powerful faired against him till the Valar showed up.

The "dark side" was not weak at all, it was immensley powerful, its just the heroes were even stronger (just)

---

I agree.

Besides, Frodo and Sam didn't even fight Sauron. They just sneaked through Mordor and burned his ring in a volcano. And they barely managed to even do that because it required Aragorn and Gandalf to nearly sacrifice themselves and the armies of mankind just as a diversion. So to imply the forces of Sauron were weak in the books is absurd.

What really defeated Sauron was his inability to contemplate that anyone would ever wish to destroy so much power as the "One Ring".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catofnine

I could remember my first character braving the depths of Moria (instances, raids and all), coming out alive on the other side and meeting the elves of Lothlorien for the first time. And what was one of the things they asked her to do before they'd let her in Lothlorien? Why, to go around and pick up orc filth of course. (She's an elf too, shouldn't that count for something?)

It's just the devs way of letting you know that no matter how far you've come and what you've done, you're never too good to pick up other people's sh*t.

---

Having said that. It's rare that I have to pay for that privilege.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andthelion

I would agree if it wasnt just 2 weeks old, but a 2 week old game if selling well would not be discounted yet, unless there was a need.

---

And yet titles on Steam are generally discounted within two or three weeks of release. You're letting your opinion of the expansion cloud how software titles have been selling (digitally) for a long time for all to purchase at that price. There's currently titles less than a month old going for 30-66% off on Steam's Black Friday sale. (Edit: Or was. Don't know about today's deals.)

How is codes only going out to people who already own it, and not to everyone, on/around Black Friday somehow any different for LotRO?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LethalLethality

And yet titles on Steam are generally discounted within two or three weeks of release. You're letting your opinion of the expansion cloud how software titles have been selling (digitally) for a long time for all to purchase at that price. There's currently titles less than a month old going for 30-66% off on Steam's Black Friday sale.

How is codes only going out to people who already own it, and not to everyone, on/around Black Friday somehow any different for LotRO?

---

When was the last time lotro reduced an expac in any shape or form less than 2 weeks after launch?

And btw lotro already had a black friday sale where you could get HD for $10

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Honvikuk

The expansion is titled 'Helms deep' but we do not participate in one of the crowing elements in the big battles when helms deep is saved by the forces of rohan with their epic charge to ride to the king.

---

Interestingly, in the novel Erkenbrand comes to the rescue with a thousand men on foot, so this wouldn't have really been an opportunity for mounted combat either. There's a vignette in the pipeline, so that may help the gap here.

MoL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andthelion

When was the last time lotro reduced an expac in any shape or form less than 2 weeks after launch?

---

Does that have any relevance to what they're doing now, even if I could give you the answer? Not really.

But, If I'm not mistaken, RoR Heroic Edition was 50% about a month after release. If you wanna argue semantics that four weeks is not two weeks, go ahead though. It's still brand new after a month.

Yes I am, thanks for asking! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LethalLethality

Does that have any relevance to what they're doing now, even if I could give you the answer? Not really.

But, If I'm not mistaken, RoR Heroic Edition was 50% about a month after release. If you wanna argue semantics that four weeks is not two weeks, go ahead though. It's still brand new after a month.

---

And RoR was a flop as well, thats done nothing but prove my point the expac isnt selling well and they are desperately trying to regain cash on it, like I said before if this was selling well and people were loving it, it would need no assistance to be sold, it wouldnt need discounts or offers. If it was selling well at full price, they would not reduce it they would keep selling it at full price for as long as it continued to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andthelion

And RoR was a flop as well, thats done nothing but prove my point the expac isnt selling well and they are desperately trying to regain cash on it, like I said before if this was selling well and people were loving it, it would need no assistance to be sold, it wouldnt need discounts or offers. If it was selling well at full price, they would not reduce it they would keep selling it at full price for as long as it continued to do so.

---

Your opinion that it was a flop. I found RoR to be really good, aside from the laggy MC, but it was a minor inconvenience. And the little I've played of HD has been really good so far.

Doesn't change the fact that games go on sale soon after release, especially with digital titles, whether they're AAA titles or not despite what you believe they're worth.

if you get lag when riding your war-steed, set your graphics "frill distance" to low, that really helps low end-machines handle the fast galloping rendering.

T has commented several times on no mounted raids.

If you think about the space required and how folks travel and move mounted I can see why it would be very difficult to stage, organize the area, script and have a final boss or bunch of hard mobs that act as a boss. I mean if you get 12 toons and they all target one trash mob it dies ASAP. So how many mobs do you have to have to even allow for some form of a real battle and not just a button mash face roll?

I keep hoping but I think an actual mounted raid might be beyond the current technology available. Remember if they did a raid it has to work for the minimum spec PCs that folks are using not just the high end gamer puters which some folks have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by valkhor

Actually this is what he says in his post.

LotR is split into 3 markedly different stages and character groups, and actually are the main spring of the story:
-the Hobbits / Shire - day to day - where helping old ladies is heroic
-the Men (Rohan) - human heroics - where heroics are about the community (i.e not the old lady anymore)
-the Elves and Half-Elves (Mordor) - super-human heroics - where the story go into the truly heroic (note: no old lady at all)
-back to day-to-day (the Shire)

So the immersion by now should be to be placed in positions where our characters belong, not in filler quests. It is great at least for Turbine and Lotro future that some like this type of sidequests, but for me, if the epic line is to be chambermaid to Eowyn, then I have to bow out before being made into a lollypop man/woman job at Osgiliath, cleaning the rubbish after the Minas Tirith siege, and as finale job-councelling the Orcs after the death of Sauron.

---

See, again, people miss the point about *our character's* place in the story. As much as all of us love to be there fighting along side Aragorn et al, that is not our path. Our path is to travel Middle-Earth dealing with a variety of "threats" and doing other tasks that, in the long run, are equally important... and usually take us to encounters with a variety of "secondary" characters who may only be mentioned briefly in the books.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadeOfLions

Interestingly, in the novel Erkenbrand comes to the rescue with a thousand men on foot, so this wouldn't have really been an opportunity for mounted combat either. There's a vignette in the pipeline, so that may help the gap here.

MoL

---

Correct. The huorns blocked the enemy retreat while Gandalf on Shadowfax, along with Erkenbrand and one thousand infantry left over from the Fords of Isen charged the ranks of Dunlendings and Orcs. Most of the Dunlendings surrendered immediately and the Orcs fled into the huorns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheCrossbow

See, again, people miss the point about *our character's* place in the story. As much as all of us love to be there fighting along side Aragorn et al, that is not our path. Our path is to travel Middle-Earth dealing with a variety of "threats" and doing other tasks that, in the long run, are equally important... and usually take us to encounters with a variety of "secondary" characters who may only be mentioned briefly in the books.

---

Its true we are not Aragorn or Gandalf or as one with the fellowship, but I think you have gone to the other end of the spectrum we are not joe bloggs ,weapon carrier and goat poo cleaner. We have been honoured by kings, Spent time in the presence of the Lady Galadriel where she foresaw greatness,we are free to come and go in Rivendell, Lothlorien, houses of Thanes and Kings, we have completed immense deeds, I think we have outgrown cleaning pots and carrying buckets now, we are no longer ordinary folk with worries about dirty dishes , but neither are we of the wise and Lordly we are in the middle ground, should we take time to ease the suffering and help out the common folk? yes should that mean we do their chores while they put their feet up and whine? no.

Remember we are Thanes now (if you finished Hytbold that is) and I havent seen a Thane pick up goat droppings yet and nor will I.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andthelion

To claim Sauron was overthrown by three hobbits is a very weak argument, thats like saying Boromir was killed by a single arrow, technically he was - the last one- but thats ignoring the others that hit him, same with your analogy, would Frodo and Sam even have made it out of the old forest without Tom Bombadil? escaped from weathertop without Aragorn? past the Bruinen without Glorfindel and Elrond? how about Gandalfs help with the Balrog?what would have happened to merry and pippin if Eomer had not shown up? Or treebeard and the ents not taken a trip to see Saruman? I could go on and on, the point is, none of what they achieved could have happened without contributions from the most powerful beings in middle earth.It wasnt until the hobbits returned to the Shire that Gandalf deemed them capable of taking care of themselves and was content for them to do so.

And since you mentioned Morgoth, just remember how the mightiest races of elves at their most powerful faired against him till the Valar showed up.

The "dark side" was not weak at all, it was immensley powerful, its just the heroes were even stronger (just)

---

Oh yeah, I do. One man and one half-elf, half-Maia took a Silmaril from his crown, by singing him to sleep (again, 'divine' intervention ... ). Still it seems what I was getting at didn't register.

I'm not here to vent or anything like that, this is solely feedback that I hope Turbine will read. I'm not mad, it's their game and they can do whatever they want. I've been a turbine customer since AC1's launch in 1999.

I'm not happy with the skill trees and Helms Deep in general, enough so that it's not fun enough to play. My hunter does a ton of damage now (initially, but it's harder now with multiple enemies and extended battles), but I only have a couple of useful skills and ONE melee skill. I feel like I'm playing a Nintendo and mashing the A and B buttons. My Warden, while maybe being a viable character still, is no longer a Warden and not something I want to play. The Warden has a huge learning curve and I wasn't even proficient in all of his old combos, and then they change everything. The new skills make no sense and it seems you have to build them up as either a mini-guardian, mini-hunter, etc. Why would I want to do that?

The Helms Deep expansion itself, aside from not shipping on the promised date (seems like breach of contract and grounds for a refund to me), isn't very fun. Lots of running around and talking quests which seem like pointless fillers to keep you busy, not much combat. No fundamentally new monsters and the scenery is mostly things we've seen before too (Helms Deep itself is kind of neat, but laggy, and the Glittering Caves were pretty if confusing and unfinished). Quest lines are broken or confused. Forced to do mounted combat for a lot of it, which I hate. The "epic battles" are really just skirmishes with a couple extra buttons and a serious lack of instructions (Failing tasks that they don't tell you how to do, or walk the wrong direction, or just want to see what's "over there" and die for no reason! I wanted to do the engineer thing but I can't figure out how to advance and you really need to still manually fight the battles anyhow because the NPCs are too stupid). I don't like skirmishes either. I like quests, exploration, stories, fun with my friends.

Oh, and the whole outage thing with the Data Center problems. There's no excuse for those kinds of problems with a professional grade Data Center. I know you don't directly run the DC, but you did chose them and do pay them. I run one for a city and if my backup power failed without a *really* good excuse I'd be looking for another job. Same thing with my redundant Internet feeds and cooling systems.

Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps traiting your hunter into a different line and trying that maybe more helpful. As far as the Warden I have yet to touch mine so can not comment. For Epic battles, as you earn completion medals you earn points to level your Role. Engineer and Officer I think are the most fun. It does take a few battles to get to rank 2 or 3 where you start to earn the higher medals and get better rewards. They were not designed to be completed on the first week. You have to grow into a role especially in the raid.

As far as the data center thing... Hey stuff happens. The power went off in new york city for a day or 2 a couple years ago because of an error. Not every system is perfect. I just learn to deal with those when they happen.

mounted combat has a huge negative on it for group / raiding. that being target forwarding and /follow. both of those mechanics in game eliminate any difficulty that a war-band instance/raid could bring to the game.

I can't add much to this thread, but I will give it a "Thumbs Up" for being how I feel.

After trying in Beta, I have my finger on the "Unsub" button. I'm just waiting to see if the "Devs" will fix this. I only have a limited time left to make a decision.

Kudos and rep to the OP.

I'll try the different lines since I have a few weeks before the subscription lapses. Can't hurt but I'm not expecting a miracle mind-change. I haven't until now because I have no idea why I would want to shoot and move (mounted combat anyone?) and the trapper line looks tricky to play and not a good match for solo work.

Regarding the DC, the backup systems are exactly why you put your servers in a DC and not in the closet. Nothing is 100%, if there were a flood for example I would expect it to be down. Yeah, it's a game and people's lives aren't at stake like in a hospital or with emergency dispatch services (my case). I realize that MMOs are a competitive market and reliability costs money. So maybe they're not paying for that level of reliability, but then don't blame the DC if they're getting what they paid for.

It makes me sad to hear that (even if it's all just pretend) people who has spoken to kings and queens suddenly feel themselves above every ordinary person and feel that helping them out is beneath them. I can understand not wanting to do quests like that because you happen to find that boring, but not because you feel that your character is too good to help anyone that isn't really really high up.

I know very little about the personalities of Tolkien's characters, but still. I'm sure even Elrond himself, if he suddenly found himself with no elven subjects around and coming upon a small village, would help those ordinary people if they asked for his help to kill the very dangerous wild boars who terrorized the area. I mean, he's very powerful, so why shouldn't he give them a hand? And since we aren't lords/ladies/kings/queens, there is even less reason for us not to help out. It's not like the NPC's forces us to help them, well at least not in any quests I have reached yet. It's a choice, so if you feel that your character wouldn't help pixel people, you don't have to :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silmelin

It makes me sad to hear that (even if it's all just pretend) people who has spoken to kings and queens suddenly feel themselves above every ordinary person and feel that helping them out is beneath them. I can understand not wanting to do quests like that because you happen to find that boring, but not because you feel that your character is too good to help anyone that isn't really really high up.

---

I'm sure most people wouldn't have so much of a problem with the quests if there was even a minute level of difficulty to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LethalLethality

And yet titles on Steam are generally discounted within two or three weeks of release.

---

I've found Steam to typically be expensive overall, like most online-only stores. Big name titles stay at big prices for a long time, probably not dropping even 10% in the first year. It's really only the smaller indie games that get the discounts. Yes there are deals right now, but those are the black friday sales, they'll all go back up until the big summer sale.

The thing is that for an online sale there's no pressure to reduce price; in a brick and mortar store all those boxes take up valuable space and so the older a game is the more discount it gets.

If you want good game deals and like older or indie games, check out GOG.com (good old games).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zzbusch2

I can't add much to this thread, but I will give it a "Thumbs Up" for being how I feel.

After trying in Beta, I have my finger on the "Unsub" button. I'm just waiting to see if the "Devs" will fix this. I only have a limited time left to make a decision.

Kudos and rep to the OP.

---

You may wish to give them some indication of what they need to fix to get you to take your finger off the big red button.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robbie1435

Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks.

All I have heard these past few days is, "I don't like these changes."

Give them until 12.1. I am almost POSITIVE(Which I hardly ever am) sure stuff will change.

And quite frankly: If you don't want to adjust to a change that might improve the game in the long run, no one is forcing you to. You can just as easily log out, uninstall, and never come back. Plain as that. Now, I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is an option open to you.



Right. They are saying they don't like these changes, because they refuse to even try them. One of my closest friends sat down, opened the trait panel, looked at in for about five seconds and said, "Well, time to delete all my characters and cancel my subscription! Bye, Glorg!" FIVE SECONDS. He refused to even look to see what the traits did.

A lot of people don't like the idea of trait trees in LoTRO, but I will tell you, it took me 15 minutes to learn how to play my captain in one spec. About 45 minutes for a three. It doesn't take that long if you are will to sit down for a bit and look at the changes?

---

(Well, if you were at work at your boss said, "Ok, we're changing a few things about your job, you can either leave now, or accept these changes." What would you do? You would start relearning your job to incorporate those new tasks. )


ah...key word here, WORK..Im not here to Work, I'm here to play..and as far as logging out, have done so. When my fun starts to feel like work..its time to move on. I really hate to because Ive been here for years, but its starting to seem, not much fun.