Are you satisfied with Helm's Deep expansion?

[Melunielsigh]

Ok, am I satisfied?

No, if I had paid money for this (rather than TP) I would be feeling very ripped off.

There is simply nothing in HD to even remotely justify the cash expenditure.

So a few scores out of ten:

World Design: 10/10
The one area Turbine continually excel at.
If the rest of the development team were even half as on the ball as these guys the game would be amazing.

Quests: 3/10
Far too linear, far too boring, far too mundane.
Do I really need to carry three barrels of arms/armour across Underharrow?
No I don't, but lazy quest designers do need filler.

Progression: 3/10
I don't feel like there is any meaningful progression for my character at all.
I start off considerably nerfed compared to where I was and don't feel I have even regained that lost ground by playing HD.

Class Redesign: 3/10
Trait Trees are a retrograde step.
Classes feel almost automated.
Tactical choices have been limited.
Fun factor has been all but destroyed.

Big Battles: 1/10
Appalling.
4th rate C&C Mini-game.
With no sense of engagement, no sense of being involved at all - much less being involved in a big battle.
3 year old browser games do the same, but better.

Epic Story: 2/10
Ok, its a nice story - but then the Epic Story line always is.
But its tied in to the weakest part of HD (in fact BB are the weakest part of the entire game) it is really dragged down to a low score; and is no longer "free" as was promised

I actually feel ripped off having spent free TP on it!

Now, the only positive side to all this is that as things are tweaked and refined (and they desperately must be or this game is dead in the water) the things MUST improve - because there is actually very little scope for making things any worse.

All The Best

Class started to feel automated since SOM. When they increased attack speed and made some of skills instant. It's too fast.

I agree with all rest.

[Melunielsigh]

Good things:

+ Big battles are generally fun to do, and they actually got those really nice and immersive.
+ Big time sink allowed into big battles, and I didnt exspect any actual progression in your character from one BB to another. This is a big plus
+ The lanscape is as always really astonishing and immersive, but I feel a lack of reason to actually explore it.
+ Challenge quest! Although they weren't really hard, I think it was an amazing idea and really good. Class balance shouldnt drag that down.
+ New lewtz in the scaled instances! Woot, lewtz!
+ New lewtz in skirmish raids! WOOT!
+ Alternative option to get class jewellery. You do not have to farm instances (or raids duh :P) to get 176 seals. First of 176 seals is not really THAT much, considering its an alternative option to fill out the last piece of a set. That is how I view it at least ^^.
+ Class changes are nice, all the specs feel really unique. And I mean that. Loged a few of my alts, and especially the yellow burglar looked very interresting :P They really got that one right on the needle.


Neutral things:
? Seals removed from instances. Good because seals were really, or perhaps, a raid currency and where too easy to get? Bad, I felt there was good and plenty of reasons to raid even though you got seals from instances. Both is fun, I might have prefered less seals from instance and/or more seals from raids, but yeah.
? No new raids instances. I dont know. Why do we need that? I agree I would want that, but considering this expansion is Helms Deep, and we actually got a raid, I don't see the problem. It would just prolong the launch and make the HD BB seem awkward. But on the flip side, come on... It would have been awesome. Next update or this may aswell count as the biggest of bad things :P!!
? Bugs. Yes sucks, but they will always be there. I don't think it is tremendously worse than anything really. In comparison to the stories I hear from the latest triple A tittles, this is nothing. Although I agree its bad, and they should feel bad about rushing content all the time, it is not that bad. It is more than playable.

Bad things:
- no new armour set! Why!! Recolor some old helegrod/annuminas/BG/Rohan/rift set whatever I don't care, just give me a set :P And all is good.
- As above, no new pvp set. Though I disagree with audacity, I can only say ettenmoors is in a bad state not only cause of this :P.
- The modernized way lotro and other MMORPGs have evolved, into something unimmersive in general.
- No new class and cluster specific gold items! Why? It was so amazing having the most shiny piece of awesome in the reason to go into every single dungeon scaled up to max level. And it was cluster specific, so you could chose not to go into certain instances if you whished! Aww I miss them. Removed because people HAVE to be able to get everything, and get lunatic when they think they deserved it more than somebody else. Through RoR I got seals enough for 3 FA for myself, 2 for my alt, and the greater erebor set. All I got was a tank head. And? It was nice to have some reason, some top or thing you didnt have yet. You always had at least 1 gold item you didnt have (damn you if you didnt :P). I whish they would bring them back, it was one of the things I really braged about and loved about lotro in RoR.
- Quest, some of them are really good and fun, but most of them are strange and there is way too much shire going on in nowadays. I don't want to collect herbs and and deliver stuff for people. Or yes sometimes, but not ALL the time! I want to slaughter an orc camp, best mighty dragons and save someone from the gribs of angry wood trolls. Come on, just ones in a while. :P I am a champ, I need blood on my weapon!
- Quest linearity, I am too tired to spell that right. But, quests are to liniear. Way too liniear. The epic book is liniear, fine! Quest lines are liniear, also fine! Because they tell a story. But all the quests are not supposed to be liniear and streamlined from a to z! This is were the game lose immersion. Let me go to a random town and help the people I think speak a good coarse and have fair rewards! Don't try to force a story down my throat everywhere I go, you can do that with the epic quest and THE QUEST LINES. It makes the whole experience more dull for me. WoW did the same in cataclysm and streamlined every single quest in-game, you know what most people believe to be the worst wow expansion? Yes, indeed.
- Block items for champs! Just why.. Arrh. And please increase the drop rate on dps items. There are two dps specs, so logically dps items should drop 2/3 of times. Like a guard who has two tank specs? I dont know, should have tank items 2/3 of times. Yes they did nice things to my blue line :P but I still prefer to do dmg, and since most do that, it does not logically make sense to shove this into our faces.
- Epic quest, boring. Just flat out boring. Some parts where nice, like the summoning with everyone on their horses and stuff - awesome. Or the fields after helms deep after the battle, really awesome I loathed that. But the rest was a bit meh.. It was like, why am I doing this? Help this town, go around this town randomly, speak to this guy, chase this mysterious dangerous man. All this nonsense, man. Let me kill a lot of stuff saving some things. Let me summon the rest of the rohirrim. Let me experience the preprarations (I did do that, and it was great, but heavily underdone :/). I don't wanna carry out every day deeds following nona, currudan and horn, doing random stuff that makes no sense. Doing random stuff and everyday deeds is for the quests or the quest lines, not the EPIC quests. The epic quest feels more like something you are supposed to be doing this season, rather than this awesome story and experience you can have from a long quest line. I hate horn, I dont need him. Nona can go away for the what? THIRD TIME FOR ALL I CARE. Curudan is nice, but I still dont really want to hang around them babysitting me and streamlining me through this expansion.
- Every piece of content is now horribly easy. Now even more text:
Why do I think classes are so overpowered now? Because they just introduced them, and there were a lot of hate towards them. Making them overpowered would make you think they are better than the old system. Like you cannot really go, this is worse than before I do zero damage. Or I do zero healing. Or I can only tank one mob. A lot more buttons to push, which is quite nice because it usually feels you need to push the right one.
What everyone is moaning about however, is the content difficulty, which is not really the class balance - is it? No, its just unfinnished and unpolished by turbine. Maybe intentional as above described. I really exspect to see a flat damage/morale increase on instance/skirmishes, and new/old instances/raids with difficulty matching the class changes.
Give turbine some time, and eventually (that is what I hope) they will get around to rebalance mobs (health, damage, etc.) and they will give us new instances/raids to play with that are hard.
Notice that this is a content balance problem, not a class balance problem. Yes everyone is OP, so noone is OP! Except everyone really isn't.. They just forgot to buff the E in PvE!

Which is quite a bommer.


Turbine, stop listening to people :P. They don't know what they want. Hell, if I hated the game like most people I have read, then I wouldnt even care getting past lvl 10.
Have hard instances, think for a second to let more people enjoy that. Boom, now its too easy. You make it hard. Boom, now its way too hard and everyone is complaining its too hard! You cannot please everyone, and chasing two hares at the same time, wont get you any of them!


Damn I got a little lose on the latter topics, but I could discuss this for hours. Whatever, you dont have to read all of it :P kudos if you did.






Thanks for reading, even if you didnt read everything.

~Frathir.

Very well said! It's shocking how many players do not like HD! Future of LOTRO doesn't look bright

[Elderban]

What I like:

- Hunters can now shoot on the move. However, this should have been something that was implemented long ago, and shouldn't have come at the cost of losing skills and traits.

What I don't like:

- Skill trees. The more I play, the more I find that I miss other skills, and the more I dislike the changes. I can't even play my Burglar anymore because they removed 3/4th's of the skills that I used or put them in other trait lines. My Hunter? Sure, I love the fact that he can move and shoot, but - again - I've lost a lot of other skills that I used in the process.
- Linearity. The game has become WAYYYYY to linear. As others said, it's ok for the Epic Quests to be linear, but to make everything else linear as well? I dread leveling any of my other characters because they will have to go through the SAME EXACT QUESTS. There's no variety whatsoever anymore.
- We're at Helm's Deep, but we're still pulling weeds, watering plants, carrying weapons from one place to another and running back and forth between two NPC's that are half a map apart. Seriously? No originality anymore. And DON'T TELL ME TO KILL 12 BEARS FOR THEIR PELTS AND THEN TELL ME TO GO BACK AND KILL 12 MORE FOR THEIR PAWS!
- Epic Battles. Don't like them. They aren't epic, and they aren't really battles. They are, essentially, skirmishes with trait trees. And why is there an option to become a Vanguard when the NPC's kill all of the mobs?
- Cookie cutter classes. Other than choosing healing, DPS or tanking, everyone will pretty much be the same now. There's no real way to customize your character anymore.
- Voice acting. Yeah, this is more of a pet peeve. But, if I speak to Gandalf, he shouldn't sound like the Skirmish Tutorial NPC, or Gimli shouldn't sound exactly like every other Dwarf in the game, or Eowen shouldn't sound like every other female Dunlending in the game or every NPC shouldn't sound like every.....other.....NPC, and what's worse is that they have a very limited vocabulary of, what, three lines? I find myself turning the sound down JUST so I don't have to listen to different NPC's say the same things over and over and over and over and over again in the same exact voice of the last person I talked to who said the same exact things. Stuff like this absolutely kills the immersion of the game.

[cirkonia]

It's been 8 days after release and many players have actually hit lv95 and completed big battles.

Maybe you were a bit fast with leveling? How someone writes somewhere else. It is maybe like a chocolate, it is sweet, and when it is eaten you want more. If there is not more
you get disapointed.

Positive:

+ Beautiful landscape - best so far esp Eastfold. Helm's deep look is captured nicely.

Agreed, my favourite areas are also the Eastfold, and the large green grass areas, there could be a bit more of that. But in general it is the
best landscape i have seen

+ Class trait system overhaul / some minor improvements in PVE ( craftin,travel, etc )

Not completly agree. Yes it could have been a lot more worse as it is. But some classes are nerved to a more boring role than before. And i do
not mean the issue with to much DPS or Heal. The ministrel is degraded from an interesting class to a 3 button class more or less. But that
is not valid for all classes. Some gain some more fun then before. In my opinion the Gu

+ I feel so small in big battles!!! ( only thing )/Middle-earth feels more alive

Yes, a nice athmosphere around the battle of Helms Deep. Turbine was able to create some kind of feeling of hoplessness that was part of this
battle. Maybe all that is possible in a game.

+ The solo quests are in general not bad. Turbine tried to make them a bit more interesting again, with the obvious limits every MMORPG has. A little
bit to much get this and carry this quests somewhere. But in general not bad. (The issue with NPCs are no challange is another topic)

+ Big Battles are fun. If you gain for a higher reward they can be a challange. They will not have a very long time interest of course, because if you
know the best ways to solve the quests, the challange will be gone. But for some months they can be interesting.

+ Epic is nicely done. Especially book 13 in helms deep. It has some glitches, when you do a break in solving the final parts in Helms Deep. But i am
sure that will be fixed sometime. Especially the progressing time makes a nice athmosphere.

Neutral:

Big battles are boring and not exciting - Yea go AFK, Don't die. After 20 min Battle won! Woho!

See above. You did try to solve them on anything else then bronze? You will never when you go AFK. I see a big missunderstanding of BB everywhere here. Yes they
can be done semi-afk. But you will not gain anything that way. Maybe the system behind them is not so easy recongnizable. You have to do something to solve
the BB on a higher level. There are some quests that would be very hard and a big challange to solve them solo. And thats fine. Sure there are some bug's still,
and some balancing needed here and there. But its good that we have a way where the more casual player can be an instance, and on the same page the
more "advanced" player has some challange. I even see comments here, that BB are to difficult - so somewhee some dont understand the mechanics of them...
A classical instance, like Dar Narbugud surely would have a longer time where it would be interest. But BBs are not bad.

HD performance overall ( freezes,crashes,lag,skill delay , worst so far ) horrible FPS drop even on high end machines 16 -30 FPS. Almost non believable.

Not on my system, and it is even not a high end machine. Performance works smooth.

Some items at STORE F example Gift of Valar lvl 50 instant.

Is it already in? I did not find it. And besides that. Who needs that, and skips a big part of good content, may need it. It does not bother me. Everyone should
play how he likes. The only bad thing about it is, that Turbine should have made this available before they nerved all starters areas to a very easy mode. The gogogo-kiddies
then could have bought this gift, and the one that like to quest could enjoy the old bit more challanges in the starter areas.

Seal grind for new gear - Ridiculous 1 piece 188 seals. 1 instance 7 seals.

There is no reason to grind any seals at the moment. You can see that as negative. As there is some content for the so called "end-game" missing. Besides when you
have the feeling that you grind seals, something is wrong - they are an reward. And nothing to be grinded.

And now to the negative parts:

Lack of new instances/raids - Not cool.

Agreed 100%. But Turbine said that long time before that there will be no raid in this Expansion, and they will deliver something later. If they do, this
expansion will surely be a good one.

- No solo-content when you reached lvl 95. Besides BB there is nothing to do on a solo-level for 95ers. I am not a fan of grind like hytbold. But sometimes
you dont like to group, or its the wrong time for any group play. And there is not a lot to do when you reached 95. I hope there will be deliverd something.

- DPS and heal to much. A lot of old scaled instances get incredible easy because most classes have to much DPS and heal. Or see it the other way round - the
antagonists, the bad ones, in the instances are to weak. Better change the Mobs and not us

- To few challinging Quests in the leveling part of HD. There are very few. There could be some more optional quets with more challinging enemies to defeat in
the landscape.

- Quest-Chain. I am not a big fan of the way all quests are changed together in HD. A bit more felixibilty in the way to solve them would be nice. Not a big
showstopper. But it could be done better. Leave the quests as they are, but dont make them depended on solving quests in another area before to get them in
a new area. That would be better. And no boring quest-hubs like in Mirkwood please

- Nothing happend on mounted-combat. You can be a fan or a not a fan on mounted combat, thats fine. But to do nothing on the skills with an expansion, in
a horse-focused area like Rohan gives you the feeling there is something missing. You can introduce other things like end-game content for 95er later, but to
do nothing on the skills of the horses, gives me the feeling mounted-combat is dead, because new skills would have been part of the leveling process.

So my ranking is 6/6.

With some more work, this release could have been a great one. Currently it is more on the weaker side of all realeses. Somewhere where Mirkwood was.

[Eliahnus]

I will say it again and again.

I believe that some people get tired of LOTRO playing it for several years. They want to play something else.
They just need to have a valid reason to quit LOTRO and start with the new game.

If the game is not updated and nothing is changed these people complains about "there's nothing new" in game, but they don't quit the game yet, because after playing for several years you can't just leave the game out of nowhere. How would you explain the fact that you spent two of three years on something and then suddenly you see that it was a mistake because now you think that the game is not funny anymore.

But when a new expansion or update is out, they look at it for several minutes, find that some things are changed and they just say: "You broke my lovely game" and they happily quit. Now they have the valid reason. The spent three years on a lovely game, but they can't spent any more time because the lovely game is gone.

You can give your opinion just like anyone else, but stop pretending to know what other people think or feel. It's very irritating. Speak only for yourself, not for the others.

[evguenil]

You can give your opinion just like anyone else, but stop pretending to know what other people think or feel. It's very irritating. Speak only for yourself, not for the others.

You are right and thank you for a chance to speak about it one more time

I re-make my post to please you:

In the past I used to hold on to a game that I liked till the last second. I tried to prolong my enjoyment and I expected that developers should make a game expansion or modification to the game in the way that I thought would be the best. But it almost never worked. Modifications were usually about something that I did not want or expect. My first reaction wast: what are you doing? You do it wrong! You are trying to destroy the game that I love.

It happenned to me once, twice, thrice. Then I sort of get used to it. And then I started to understand that the "problem" is within me and not within the game.

When I start to play new game, I enjoy and accept (almost) everything within game. I get used to logic, to balance, to gamestyle, etc... of the game. And if it changed I use myself uncomfortable and I need to re-learn the game. That annoys me because it means that several weeks that I spent before to master the game is now wasted and I need to re-learn it.
Besides, playing the game for weeks I start to think that I know the game better than developer...
Paying for game, I pay for hours of enjoynment and not for something that I'm going to keep in the dark corner till I'm dead like a broom or a picture or a tv set. I pay for it like I pay for a movie. 2 hours of fun and that's it.

Well, I can go on and on, but I'd like to keep it short. My messages is:

- when you think that game starts to irritate you, don't waste time on blaming developers and start looking for another game.

I follow this simple rule and it saves me from a lot of personal misery.

[Tiempko]

Generally, I am pleased, but it is my habit to accept things as they come.

I am particularly happy with the fact that my kinship and friends with characters at all levels can now adventure together.

The one thing I am having trouble with is the fact that characters overpower the landscape by so much that I fall asleep at my keyboard during battles and I still win. I bought an XP Disabled to keep the landscape creatures 5 levels above character level and it is still nearly impossible to find an encounter that takes thought.

I would be pleased if Turbine would allow us the option to take quests 10 levels above character level - instead of the current limit of 5 - so that those who want challenge can find some.

[ukbelgarion]

Hi again.

I think that some of your responses to this thread I feel have mis-interpreted my true feelings that I was trying to put over to you all. I cant understand why in some cases I am being told to go play some where else, that in itself is not appropriate thing to do in this case.

I was pointing out all the mundane task that should not be a part of this game or in fact most MMO's. At Helms Deep when you are finally getting to the best part of this section, you have to pick up a barrel of stuff and run 700m to the fortress???? This is endemic in most of the game, also very much endemic throughout all the game is the running about I.E. speak to Legolas the speak to Gimli then speak to who ever. Running players all over the place to earn what?

I have taken every bodies views on board and hope Lotro have as well. I have 8 characters and everyone of them I am proud of there progress and what and who they are. But think of this: My favourite Character is a Female Warden now level 94. I am proficient in everything from traits to crafting, when I first go to a village,town or city were I might meet a King or a Thane or even a shop keeper they all need my help. I am a Hero of the game. To be told to pick up sheep s**t is not what I expect the way to be treated..

Perhaps the writers will take this on board, I do not know but if I was ask to make something for that King or who ever according to my trade I would be delighted to do that. Organise the defences of that place or use the riding skills a bit more. What I am really saying is that I do not want to earn xp by doing pointless menial task. When you have maxed out one character you want to feel and want to develop your next character and not dread doing parts of it.

As I have said in a previous post this is just a game and the storyline is just a guide, even if the want to go beyond the storyline as it stands and come up with another adventure to add on, I will support that. But I hear you say a big fat NO, I would like them to develop new stuff based on good characters and the finest writers to date. I.E. Terry Goodkind and the Sword of Truth Series, David Eddings and any of his series will make a good game. But that is for the future and now we can crisis's what we have and hope to make it better and that is possible.

[Gandie2]

I to got the feeling that there was too much of this 'clean up' duty in this expansion. There is always a bit of it, and believe it or not some people like it. There is always someone whining "not another go kill 10 bad guys quests. To them anything that does not involve killing mobs is a godsend and the height of creativity. I was thinking while doing one more off these 'clean off the tables and wash the dishes oh mighty warrior' quests that turbine should start giving quests with options. Hey there _______ we have lots of tasks that need doing - help being hard to find in the current troubles, if you care to help you may do any of the following all have the same reward.

A) Go kill 10 orcs
B) Go hunt bears for meat
C) Go clean the toilets on the second floor.

This way the people who moan "not another go kill 10 orcs quest" can chose to go clean toilets and you and I and other like minded people can go kill 10 more orcs.

As for the increase in the cost of buying convenience with mithril coins. Simple solution. Don't buy convenience. Personally I shun anything that I see as 'just for profit' addition to the game as something corrupt. What I mean by 'just for profit' are things like 'click this button' to instantly travel to the guy to turn in your quest. There is no way any game that was subscription only (no free to play options no store) would ever have this option. It is totally outside any conception of story line, game immersive reality play. Same with the mithril coins for travel to destinations you have not learned by having gone there first. The game was set up so that we had to travel to a point to learn it first. Not that I feel that this is necessary for a game. But it is definitely the model this game has. If not for f2p there would be no option to travel without having learned the route first.

So when complaining to me about turbine increasing the cost of these abominations your complaint falls on death ears.

[valkhor]

... if you don't appreciate the kind of immersion that can frequently involve a lot of minor tasks... well, then I suppose this game isn't for you.

Actually this is what he says in his post.

LotR is split into 3 markedly different stages and character groups, and actually are the main spring of the story:
-the Hobbits / Shire - day to day - where helping old ladies is heroic
-the Men (Rohan) - human heroics - where heroics are about the community (i.e not the old lady anymore)
-the Elves and Half-Elves (Mordor) - super-human heroics - where the story go into the truly heroic (note: no old lady at all)
-back to day-to-day (the Shire)

So the immersion by now should be to be placed in positions where our characters belong, not in filler quests. It is great at least for Turbine and Lotro future that some like this type of sidequests, but for me, if the epic line is to be chambermaid to Eowyn, then I have to bow out before being made into a lollypop man/woman job at Osgiliath, cleaning the rubbish after the Minas Tirith siege, and as finale job-councelling the Orcs after the death of Sauron.

[Tyveil]

I agree with the OP.
However, I do like many things about the expansion. I think the skill trees are a great step in the right direction and BB's are quite immerse and fun, these things will get better once the kinks are worked out.
Enough with the menial tasks though and enough text to fill a library. Every single quest should involve challenge and very often it should involve combat. At least with SoA, even the menial tasks (such as delivering mail in the shire) involved a timer and could be quite challenging. Now the quests are just purely go to point A, click on item, go to point B, click on item, talk to npc (read wall of text), go to point C, click on item, rinse repeat. It's boring as hell. If there is no way to fail a quest, it shouldn't exist in the game.

[MonkeyFunker]

turbine should start giving quests with options. Hey there _______ we have lots of tasks that need doing - help being hard to find in the current troubles, if you care to help you may do any of the following all have the same reward.

A) Go kill 10 orcs
B) Go hunt bears for meat
C) Go clean the toilets on the second floor.

This way the people who moan "not another go kill 10 orcs quest" can chose to go clean toilets and you and I and other like minded people can go kill 10 more orcs.

Absolutely this. I found the quests in this expansion to have more "chores" content than usual. This was made especially painful as I was trying to go through the quests in a duo, which kept breaking down because of the endless busy work all over town. Not a positive experience at all.

[SapienChavez]

and now that everything has settled down... about MY house in Edoras... im holding that deed, don't even try and screw me outta that house!


if I had any complaint about the story line its... speak to Herubrand. Talk to Herubrand. Talk to Herubrand. go see Herubrand. speak to Herubrand.

then, when you think its all over.

talk to Herubrand.

then, you even move onto the next town and think, "im finally done with Woodhurst! the night mare is over!"

Talk to Herubrand.


you've GOT to be kidding me.

[MaxDetroit]

Actually this is what he says in his post.

LotR is split into 3 markedly different stages and character groups, and actually are the main spring of the story:
-the Hobbits / Shire - day to day - where helping old ladies is heroic
-the Men (Rohan) - human heroics - where heroics are about the community (i.e not the old lady anymore)
-the Elves and Half-Elves (Mordor) - super-human heroics - where the story go into the truly heroic (note: no old lady at all)
-back to day-to-day (the Shire)

So the immersion by now should be to be placed in positions where our characters belong, not in filler quests. It is great at least for Turbine and Lotro future that some like this type of sidequests, but for me, if the epic line is to be chambermaid to Eowyn, then I have to bow out before being made into a lollypop man/woman job at Osgiliath, cleaning the rubbish after the Minas Tirith siege, and as finale job-councelling the Orcs after the death of Sauron.

Well, for me atmosphere and immersion are the things I enjoy the most in any (MMO)RPGs.


My reasons for being sad about Lotro:

1.) Why do everybody has to be a great hero? Why do everybody has to be friends with Frodo, Gandalf and the whole fellowship? Why does everbody get access to Lothlorien so easily? And so on ...
It's all like: you are the saviour of middle-earth and btw. everbody else in this game is as well, since this is a Must-Have in MMOs these days, that everybody needs the feeling to be special. This doesn't work for me, in fact, it's immersion breaking for me.

2.) Lore. The point where the game went to far for me was already with Moria. There was so much lore-bending going on, it just was too much for me. The whole time-line was completly messed up, the dwarfs have already taken back Moria while the fellowship rests in Lorien - it didn't make any sense. The unnamed aliens in the deeps of Moria felt totally out of place, other MMOs can handle pop-culture references, but Aliens and Alien-Eggs in Middle-Earth, plaese, just don't. A class based on the spartans of the at-that-time-popular movie 300 and another new class that throws fire balls, ice and lightning ... still I think both new classes where totally unnecessary and didn't do the balancing of the game any good. And don't get me starting on Radance and LI's ... at least Radiance was removed a few updates later again. I truly believe that the lore was handled very carefully in the beginning, with a few exceptions, and then the broken window fallacy started kicking in and they didn't care anymore, they just checked how far they could bend it until it would break (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable..._broken_window).

3.) I think the decision to move the game along the journey of the fellowship made sense in the beginning, especially from a marketing point-of-view, but as longer the game progresses, the whole time-line gets more and more messed up. Different players are at different points of the story, which lead to a lot of instances and layering, turning the whole game more and more into a Solo-RPG. This would be fine, if it would have the quality of a fully fleshed Solo-RPG like the Witcher or Skyrim, but it only delivers MMO quests like 'kill ten orcs' or 'wash 20 dishes'. Now I would prefer a game that starts after the events of the books, Aragorn is King, and all players start to rebuild middle-earth, while there are still enough dangers out there to deal with. That would have been the better choice for the whole setting (imho).

4.) F2P. The business model is okay, when done right. But here the shop is a total immersion and atmosphere killer. In SoA people were honestly arguing if riding a horse in Thorins Hall should be allowed or not, because it's atmosphere and immersion breaking, but today, we've got other problems for sure. Shop Buttons everywhere, TP, Mithril Coins and Hobbit Presents ... they just have taken it too far.

;tldr

In the end, I'm too very sad where this game has ended. It was an opportunity for bringing Tolkien's Middle-Earth to live, and it still can deliver that occasionally (the landscapes), but the rest is just a copy of copy of other MMOs and established standard mechanics (trait trees), that sometimes work, but most of the time doesn't fit into Middle-Earth.

I think the decision of Turbine to call it 'Lord of the Rings Online' and have this very story-driven approach of an MMO didn't work out for me in the end.
After a long time playing Lotro, enjoying and loving it in the beginning, but being frustrated by the direction it has taken after all this years, I'm now hoping for a real 'Middle-Earth Online' game for the future. I would love to see more of a simulation, an Open-World-Sandbox game, and not the Theme-Park-"Exit-through-the-Gift-Shop"-Lotro we've got here.

[MuddledMage]

I have yet to see a reason why Turbine called this an expansion. In my opinion it's a thinly disguised easy-mode warm-over to attract consumers who want to be call themselves gamers without learning how to actually evolve as such.

Want to sign on and be playing Big Battles in a day? No problem little WOWsers, come on in FOR FREE so we can soak you later.

My sub has been cancelled in April. I refuse to purchase anything else from Turbine after they have unveiled HD.

[Andthelion]

1 of my ex-kinnies who bought this expansion with TP has told me that he today received an e-mail from Turbine saying he could purchase the expansion with a 15% discount :0, the key can be given as a gift.

Wow a 15% discount on a less than 2 week old expansion, something tells me panic has set in over at HQ.

[mjk47]

Herubrand has issues.

[cdq1958]

I might be a grumpy, nearly-blind old man, but I want to throw in my two coppers for people to consider.

Part of the issue as I see it is calling this world of Middle-Earth fantasy, versus legendary mythology. Pedant mode on: all fiction is fantasy by definition. Pedant mode off.

I bring up legendary mythology for I want people to think of Arthur (mentioned upthread), Hercules (Homer's Iliad, etc), Beowulf, the Elder and lesser Edda, etc. That's what this story is and why I love what Turbine has done, mostly, with this world. That's partly why I say that the combat aspects are not 'too easy'; for the base lore is one where the 'Dark Side' was especially weak one on one; and ultimately the biggest and baddest evil of them all (after Morgoth) was overthrown by 'divine' intervention in the form of three Hobbits (er, maybe four if you want to count Gollum as Hobbit).

[LethalLethality]

1 of my ex-kinnies who bought this expansion with TP has told me that he today received an e-mail from Turbine saying he could purchase the expansion with a 15% discount :0, the key can be given as a gift.

Wow a 15% discount on a less than 2 week old expansion, something tells me panic has set in over at HQ.

Unless everyone gets this email, I don't really see the panic. Sounds like it's going to people who have purchased it already, in hopes of getting people to gift it to friends who don't have it already. One of those "Buy for your friends" type deals so you can play together.

Otherwise, would not make much sense to send a discount code to people who have purchased it already.

[Old_Relic]

I have to say that I like what they tried to do with this expansion and as I run a Guard I'm even happy with the work that took place on the classes.

What I am finding rather madding is the inflation see in the stats. So far I've only hit level 93, but my basic stats are now way over what I had at level 85 and the stats on new items are well over the top. From what players are saying it seems that a 2H lvl 95 weapon is around the 280 base dps, against 150 odd for a lvl 85. I also found that by Hytbold armer set was out stat'ed by general quest armor once I hit lvl 88, again far to much inflated.


The way I value/cost a game is the number of hours I spend playing it or an expansion. For RoR I must have clocked up 500+ hours, the speed at which HD is going by I can't see myself needing anything like that. For starters I already have all the bits I need for crafting a lvl 95 2A weapon from doing quests, in past expansions this was always an end game aim, now its already done.

[Andthelion]

Unless everyone gets this email, I don't really see the panic. Sounds like it's going to people who have purchased it already, in hopes of getting people to gift it to friends who don't have it already. One of those "Buy for your friends" type deals so you can play together.

Otherwise, would not make much sense to send a discount code to people who have purchased it already.

Because if it was any good, they would be able to offer it at full price and still sell it, as it isnt even 2 weeks old, however they arent,why? because they know take up at full price will be minimal and they desperately want login figures up.

If the expansion was a success and received well, there would be no need to get players to buy it for their friends as they would have it all ready, let alone sell it with a reduction.

[Tdmaha1998]

Very well said! It's shocking how many players do not like HD! Future of LOTRO doesn't look bright

Oh it's not just lotro future it's every mmo. You goto sites liken mmorpg or specific game site it's nothing but whining and crying about everything. Mmo players are turning into entitled snobs who feel they should get everything for free and if they do pay for something and it's not perfect they demand a refund.

I personally am enjoying HD, maybe it's because I'm a casual gamer (VIP) and don't rush to end game so I can cry there isn't enough content. I'm a level 95 have 93 skill points taking my time through each zone and actually paying attention to the stories.

Granted there are bugs and some quest there is back and forth running but for people to give this expansion a 0 or 2 is a joke. How long have you been playing lotro? Yeah they changed classes we'll adapt they really are not that hard to learn? It's too easy? When was the last time you had an issued with mobs? Quest suck? Again how long have you been playing lotro?

Yes it's not perfect doesn't have the instances for the raiders , BB cannot be completed by going afk, epic story if you pay attention is pretty good, after reading a lot of QQ post here and on other sites it's clear either some of these players need to go back to FPS or mmos are going to die off. The mmo community in General is the biggest bunch of babies in all of video gaming.

[LethalLethality]

Because if it was any good, they would be able to offer it at full price and still sell it, as it isnt even 2 weeks old, however they arent,why? because they know take up at full price will be minimal and they desperately want login figures up.

If the expansion was a success and received well, there would be no need to get players to buy it for their friends as they would have it all ready, let alone sell it with a reduction.

Not true. And this is relevant to all games, not just LotRO. It doesn't matter how good a game/expansion/DLC/etc. is. Some people just won't pay full price for a game (because they can't afford it or they just want to wait for a sale), and some people who want their friends to play are not willing to pay full price for a second copy.

In the end, 15% isn't much of a discount anyways. $9 off the Premium edition or $6 off the base edition. But it may be enough to get someone to buy for a friend or pass it to someone who really wants it but doesn't want to pay full price to purchase it.

[Andthelion]

I might be a grumpy, nearly-blind old man, but I want to throw in my two coppers for people to consider.

Part of the issue as I see it is calling this world of Middle-Earth fantasy, versus legendary mythology. Pedant mode on: all fiction is fantasy by definition. Pedant mode off.

I bring up legendary mythology for I want people to think of Arthur (mentioned upthread), Hercules (Homer's Iliad, etc), Beowulf, the Elder and lesser Edda, etc. That's what this story is and why I love what Turbine has done, mostly, with this world. That's partly why I say that the combat aspects are not 'too easy'; for the base lore is one where the 'Dark Side' was especially weak one on one; and ultimately the biggest and baddest evil of them all (after Morgoth) was overthrown by 'divine' intervention in the form of three Hobbits (er, maybe four if you want to count Gollum as Hobbit).

To claim Sauron was overthrown by three hobbits is a very weak argument, thats like saying Boromir was killed by a single arrow, technically he was - the last one- but thats ignoring the others that hit him, same with your analogy, would Frodo and Sam even have made it out of the old forest without Tom Bombadil? escaped from weathertop without Aragorn? past the Bruinen without Glorfindel and Elrond? how about Gandalfs help with the Balrog?what would have happened to merry and pippin if Eomer had not shown up? Or treebeard and the ents not taken a trip to see Saruman? I could go on and on, the point is, none of what they achieved could have happened without contributions from the most powerful beings in middle earth.It wasnt until the hobbits returned to the Shire that Gandalf deemed them capable of taking care of themselves and was content for them to do so.

And since you mentioned Morgoth, just remember how the mightiest races of elves at their most powerful faired against him till the Valar showed up.

The "dark side" was not weak at all, it was immensley powerful, its just the heroes were even stronger (just)

[Andthelion]

Not true. And this is relevant to all games, not just LotRO. It doesn't matter how good a game/expansion/DLC/etc. is. Some people just won't pay full price for a game (because they can't afford it or they just want to wait for a sale), and some people who want their friends to play are not willing to pay full price for a second copy.

In the end, 15% isn't much of a discount anyways. $9 off the Premium edition or $6 off the base edition. But it may be enough to get someone to buy for a friend or pass it to someone who really wants it but doesn't want to pay full price to purchase it.

I would agree if it wasnt just 2 weeks old, but a 2 week old game if selling well would not be discounted yet, unless there was a need.