new Beor class excluded to the hobbit

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Originally Posted by Robeauch

i cant believe this thread is more than a week old and i am just now discovering it it is the most epic thread of this forum and might be my favorite thread of any forum ever i have only just begun to plumb its depths but i look forward to taking more time this evening to really delve into it and enjoy its complete awesomeness thats really all i have to say i just wanted to show my appreciation for everyone who has posted in this thread you all win all of the internets forever thank you

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Decaffe man. Decaffe. ;)

Reading over the chat notes Frick put up from the last Hobbit run, it seems clear there is no chance we will see the new class bleed-over to another race.

This thread is gone to the Americans.

OK so hobbits wouldnt make good captains....and champions are to berserk/bloodthirsty...what we need then is a warrior class for all races....and we have one that appears in all the books, open to all races and wouldnt cause no lore issues whatsoever
and thats a Soldier/Man at Arms class.... all those poor bugger who are given a spear, a sword and some armour and told by some captain on horseback to "Charge those Orc chappies and give them what for Tally ho wot!"
I have always been surprised there isnt a universal warrior in lotro when there appears so many in the books...and yes even hobbits are capable of grabbing a pitchfork and banding together to protect home and hearth
We have Captains who are leaders of men...but isnt it a little strange they have nobody to lead?
That should appease everyone, and id be quite happy to wiggle into some rusty chainmail, stick a pot on my head, grab a spear and march to war!

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

What's a red-specc'd guardian or warden then?

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They've got to have some way of knocking Goblins' heads clean off :p

And in case you missed it, Champions are all about the ultra-violence, it's their raison d'être.

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Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

Pity people cannot respond to a serious point without having to mock it.

Absence of any real counter argument I guess.

So the next time your hobbit guardian uses brutal assault or force opening, or your hobbit warden uses any of the power attack line gambits, ask yourself why indeed hobbits cannot be champions?....

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I have no horse in this race. Champions are all about the shing-shing so I made a joke. That and I had the song stuck in my head. It was not meant as a slight.

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Originally Posted by Harbut

OK so hobbits wouldnt make good captains....and champions are to berserk/bloodthirsty...what we need then is a warrior class for all races....and we have one that appears in all the books, open to all races and wouldnt cause no lore issues whatsoever
and thats a Soldier/Man at Arms class.... all those poor bugger who are given a spear, a sword and some armour and told by some captain on horseback to "Charge those Orc chappies and give them what for Tally ho wot!"
I have always been surprised there isnt a universal warrior in lotro when there appears so many in the books...and yes even hobbits are capable of grabbing a pitchfork and banding together to protect home and hearth

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Actually we already have that class - the guardian - capable of using one/two-handed weapons, charging into battle and smashing some ork heads just like the captain told him to.

I am guardian Rank 15 of etten with all titles but if I want to continue in the game I need other kinds to follow in pvp, and hobbit that I like I want to will play it and I can I do not intend to remove the role no one but I need a solution that is good for me and for your tradition going to open another post giving a suggestion don't want jokes I just want a way out a consensus between all I am from the first day of lotro and not want to leave him,

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Originally Posted by Fratonia

Actually we already have that class - the guardian - capable of using one/two-handed weapons, charging into battle and smashing some ork heads just like the captain told him to.

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hmmm good point...oh well back to the pie :)

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Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar

Of course the rules can be ditched or changed - any arbitrary rule could (by definition) just as well be some other rule. The race/class restrictions are all based on subjective interpretations of Tolkien's work. I am free to argue for a different interpretation. You are free to support the current interpretations. Isn't that how discussion works?

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The rules are a critical and fundamental part of the game concept. If these are changed it's not the same game anymore. I would like to play Lotro and not some <insert random name here> with replaceable content that has no connection to the Lord if the Rings novel. Game designers at Turbine have been very good to get that Lotro feeling right so far in my opinion and I would like it to stay that way.
Btw. I'm already pissed off with the decision to add cosmetic pets to the game. Was it really necessary to turn this game into a private zoo?

It's also bad enough that we have "xXGodKillerXx" and other such nonsense character names running around. I don't need hobbit runekeepers or dwarven loremasters on top of that...
Before anybody says "Name calling is not allowed" - the above was just an example. I don't even know if such character exists but there are lots of other characters with bullsh.. names running around.

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Originally Posted by maxjenius

Part of this thread seems to be about Hobbit Champions and Captains. There are no non arbitrary reasons for class/race restrictions. But it is what it is. And your character does not have to be a Champion to be a champion, nor a Captain to be a captain (in terms of RP).

Classes are just pre packaged sets of traits and skills. They are irrelevant beyond that.

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Like that... sometimes you just have to adjust.

For example, in most other games I used to run a tank character as one of my alts, and, as I'm almost exclusively (with one short detour to SWTOR) am playing fantasy games, that bundle of steel and shield usually is a dwarven girl. Somehow I think dwarves are the perfect race to play tanks - solid, compact, down-to-earth, grim and determined. Unfortunately in Middle-Earth dwarven females don't travel around, going on adventures and bashing orc heads.

So what did I do? Roll a hobbit guardian instead... she's also small and compact, loves good food and a good pint of beer in the local tavern, the no-nonsense type, and feel sorry for the orc or wolf that tries to attack her home or her friends...

So it's possible to RP a hobbit leader personality, or a stealthy elven warrior or whatever else comes to mind. Classes are only ingame mechanics, characters are what your mind makes out of them.

Does anyone really think that Aragorn or Frodo thought of themselves as belonging to some "class"? They just did what they had to do with the skills they had.

can you tell me how do I LM without having their skill I am Wizard in another game and I can assure you that it has nothing to do with a mistrel that it is the only thing that give a hobbit in lotro

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Originally Posted by rodin12

can you tell me how do I LM without having their skill I am Wizard in another game and I can assure you that it has nothing to do with a mistrel that it is the only thing that give a hobbit in lotro

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Well Rodin12, let me begin by saying that the target population for the infrastructure of the responsive permanent contingency develops a vision to leverage the negative aspects of any operational situation involving Hobbits and their associated stereotypes.

That said, without a doubt, Sapience was right in suggesting that any solution to the problem of the underlying surrealism of the hypothetical diffusible algorithm that implements Middle Earth identifies the dangers quite logically of the diverse hardware environment, needless to say, within the confines of the engine. This should be considered in the light of the analogous empirical class reciprocity and widely the available computing capacity.

Let's take for example a server like Landroval. In an ideal environment, the basis of any key objective is intrinsically significant. On the other hand the constraints of the compatible marginalised theme may mean a wide diffusion of the implicit casuistry into the priority sequence of events, as planned and later delivered.

Ergo just as all Beornings are men, but not all men are Beornings, all motivational singing buffoons may be minstrels, but not all minstrels are milk chocolate buttons with a hard glazed shell. A juxtaposition worth considering at length, if there ever was one.

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Originally Posted by Alex53

Well Rodin12, let me begin by saying that the target population for the infrastructure of the responsive permanent contingency develops a vision to leverage the negative aspects of any operational situation involving Hobbits and their associated stereotypes.

That said, without a doubt, Sapience was right in suggesting that any solution to the problem of the underlying surrealism of the hypothetical diffusible algorithm that implements Middle Earth identifies the dangers quite logically of the diverse hardware environment, needless to say, within the confines of the engine. This should be considered in the light of the analogous empirical class reciprocity and widely the available computing capacity.

Let's take for example a server like Landroval. In an ideal environment, the basis of any key objective is intrinsically significant. On the other hand the constraints of the compatible marginalised theme may mean a wide diffusion of the implicit casuistry into the priority sequence of events, as planned and later delivered.

Ergo just as all Beornings are men, but not all men are Beornings, all motivational singing buffoons may be minstrels, but not all minstrels are milk chocolate buttons with a hard glazed shell. A juxtaposition worth considering at length, if there ever was one.

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Oh heck - so far I thought my English was more or less up to par and I'd understand most of what's written... boy, was I wrong ;)

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Originally Posted by Alex53

Well Rodin12, let me begin by saying that the target population for the infrastructure of the responsive permanent contingency develops a vision to leverage the negative aspects of any operational situation involving Hobbits and their associated stereotypes.

That said, without a doubt, Sapience was right in suggesting that any solution to the problem of the underlying surrealism of the hypothetical diffusible algorithm that implements Middle Earth identifies the dangers quite logically of the diverse hardware environment, needless to say, within the confines of the engine. This should be considered in the light of the analogous empirical class reciprocity and widely the available computing capacity.

Let's take for example a server like Landroval. In an ideal environment, the basis of any key objective is intrinsically significant. On the other hand the constraints of the compatible marginalised theme may mean a wide diffusion of the implicit casuistry into the priority sequence of events, as planned and later delivered.

Ergo just as all Beornings are men, but not all men are Beornings, all motivational singing buffoons may be minstrels, but not all minstrels are milk chocolate buttons with a hard glazed shell. A juxtaposition worth considering at length, if there ever was one.

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Don't use long words when talking to Rodin, he barely understands the short ones; its rather cruel really...

Taravan your cruel reality is that you're not Rank 11 or with your main frep or crep and see that you do raid with your friends but nothing you upload Rank I am 15 with rodin and 12 with the hunter so the difference is and you will always raid .with your cpt I was already 13 at least and know you when you want to give me a hobbit cpt and I show it to you in 4 months Rank 12 and know you all etten on our server.I do not insult that I treat with respect

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Originally Posted by rodin12

Taravan your cruel reality is that you're not Rank 11 or with your main frep or crep and see that you do raid with your friends but nothing you upload Rank I am 15 with rodin and 12 with the hunter so the difference is and you will always raid .with your cpt I was already 13 at least and know you when you want to give me a hobbit cpt and I show it to you in 4 months Rank 12 and know you all etten on our server.I do not insult that I treat with respect

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I couldnt agree more with this post.
+ rep rodin

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Originally Posted by rodin12

Taravan your cruel reality is that you're not Rank 11 or with your main frep or crep and see that you do raid with your friends but nothing you upload Rank I am 15 with rodin and 12 with the hunter so the difference is and you will always raid .with your cpt I was already 13 at least and know you when you want to give me a hobbit cpt and I show it to you in 4 months Rank 12 and know you all etten on our server.I do not insult that I treat with respect

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I was intending to be kind because I know you struggle with English, and Alex53's post would be confusing even to people with a perfect grasp of the language... Ah well, I won't try that again :P

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Originally Posted by Rowellan

So what did I do? Roll a hobbit guardian instead... she's also small and compact, loves good food and a good pint of beer in the local tavern, the no-nonsense type, and feel sorry for the orc or wolf that tries to attack her home or her friends...

So it's possible to RP a hobbit leader personality, or a stealthy elven warrior or whatever else comes to mind. Classes are only ingame mechanics, characters are what your mind makes out of them.

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If you bring RP into it that constrains what hobbits can sensibly do to less than the classes the game allows them, because there's then that element of believability. The game mechanics take no account of the fact that hobbits only stood around three and a half feet tall, or how mass scales with height (half the height, one-eighth the mass for the same build!), or that reach is pretty damn important in a fight, too. Nor are hobbits ever going to be convincing as leaders for anyone other than other hobbits, again because they were simply tiny. Roughly the size of four-year-olds. The outcome of them trying to go toe-to-toe with any Man (or Man-tall Uruk) who knew what he was doing would be very, very ugly.

Good RP for hobbits is to play to their known strengths, not to play them as pint-sized Men.

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Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

If you bring RP into it that constrains what hobbits can sensibly do to less than the classes the game allows them, because there's then that element of believability. The game mechanics take no account of the fact that hobbits only stood around three and a half feet tall, or how mass scales with height (half the height, one-eighth the mass for the same build!), or that reach is pretty damn important in a fight, too. Nor are hobbits ever going to be convincing as leaders for anyone other than other hobbits, again because they were simply tiny. Roughly the size of four-year-olds. The outcome of them trying to go toe-to-toe with any Man (or Man-tall Uruk) who knew what he was doing would be very, very ugly.

Good RP for hobbits is to play to their known strengths, not to play them as pint-sized Men.

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Playing a hobbit completely according to lore none of them would probably ever leave the Shires or at least Breeland... cause of course you're right, any at least halfway skilled Uruk-Hai would deal with a hobbit right before breakfast. Plus, hobbits are not exactly known to be daredevil adventurers. If I remember right his neighbours thought that Bilbo was a bit strange, with his big journey and all.

Guess that's where lore had to step aside to make room for the needs of the game makers (and the players who of course wanna play hobbit characters). Still, as we do have a situation with playable hobbit characters that really do travel all across Middle Earth I think a guard skilled as tank makes some kind of sense - hobbits can get brave if a friend is in danger...
It's very shaky ground.

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Originally Posted by Rowellan

Playing a hobbit completely according to lore none of them would probably ever leave the Shires or at least Breeland... cause of course you're right, any at least halfway skilled Uruk-Hai would deal with a hobbit right before breakfast. Plus, hobbits are not exactly known to be daredevil adventurers. If I remember right his neighbours thought that Bilbo was a bit strange, with his big journey and all.

Guess that's where lore had to step aside to make room for the needs of the game makers (and the players who of course wanna play hobbit characters). Still, as we do have a situation with playable hobbit characters that really do travel all across Middle Earth I think a guard skilled as tank makes some kind of sense - hobbits can get brave if a friend is in danger...
It's very shaky ground.

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There is a reason why my hobbit burg is a Fallohide :). They're known to have gone off into the Blue to have adventures.

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Originally Posted by Rowellan

Playing a hobbit completely according to lore none of them would probably ever leave the Shires or at least Breeland... cause of course you're right, any at least halfway skilled Uruk-Hai would deal with a hobbit right before breakfast. Plus, hobbits are not exactly known to be daredevil adventurers. If I remember right his neighbours thought that Bilbo was a bit strange, with his big journey and all.

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The Tooks were more adventurous, and many young hobbits had gone off on adventures in the company of a certain Wizard. Tolkien also hinted that there were more hobbits living 'outside' than anyone had taken account of. Bilbo's idiosyncrasies came from his Tookish side, we're told. Regardless of this, if we're talking well-crafted RP then the trick is to be subtle, to try to be plausible enough that if your character's adventures were written down they'd make a believable tale. That's by contrast to a MMO's approach, which is to be brash, loud and colourful to keep the punters happy. They aren't set up with RPers in mind, but rather the average gamer.

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Guess that's where lore had to step aside to make room for the needs of the game makers (and the players who of course wanna play hobbit characters). Still, as we do have a situation with playable hobbit characters that really do travel all across Middle Earth I think a guard skilled as tank makes some kind of sense - hobbits can get brave if a friend is in danger...
It's very shaky ground.

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Hobbits are simply implausible as tanks because if there were even the slightest hint of realism they'd get battered down, overborne, or knocked back into the middle of next week by every foe they might meet with the exception of the smaller Orcs. Dwarves are more plausible because while they were short they were immensely strong (you wouldn't want to arm-wrestle a Dwarf!) and very stocky in build. Hobbits were not only a foot or so shorter than Dwarves but also lacked that strength and solidity.

As for helping a friend in danger - as an example, Sam doesn't tank Shelob. He goes berserk and lays into her, a sword in each hand; she's taken aback by his sheer ferocity. Elsewhere, the hobbits score victories by being underestimated and ignored by enemies, as when the Witch-king ignores Merry, or when the Troll which was intent on finishing off Beregond failed to notice Pippin, who promptly stabbed it in the gut and killed it. That sets tne standard for plausible hobbit heroics (and one still has to bear in mind that Merry and Pippin had grown to what was heroic stature for hobbits, thanks to the Ent-draughts they'd drunk). Wearing heavy armour, toting a shield and yelling defiance (in the inevitably small, rather piping voice hobbits would have) would be very likely to end up being suicidal bravery against anything much bigger than the average Goblin, with the bold but foolish hobbit ending up being hammered into the ground like a tent-peg.

then Sam goes mad and his ferocity surprises to the spider also if can champion yourself belies you and I can assure you that if a player takes a hobbit as if it takes a human is much better tank that a human I tell me that I am a hobbit tank and a legend in my server they say many

You cant use a very special hobbit as an example becouse he is a very special hobbit. There is only one Samwise Gamgee, and you can't be him. As for hobbits having adventures, hobbits consider padling from Frogmorton an adventure...

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Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

The Tooks were more adventurous, and many young hobbits had gone off on adventures in the company of a certain Wizard. Tolkien also hinted that there were more hobbits living 'outside' than anyone had taken account of. Bilbo's idiosyncrasies came from his Tookish side, we're told. Regardless of this, if we're talking well-crafted RP then the trick is to be subtle, to try to be plausible enough that if your character's adventures were written down they'd make a believable tale. That's by contrast to a MMO's approach, which is to be brash, loud and colourful to keep the punters happy. They aren't set up with RPers in mind, but rather the average gamer.


Hobbits are simply implausible as tanks because if there were even the slightest hint of realism they'd get battered down, overborne, or knocked back into the middle of next week by every foe they might meet with the exception of the smaller Orcs. Dwarves are more plausible because while they were short they were immensely strong (you wouldn't want to arm-wrestle a Dwarf!) and very stocky in build. Hobbits were not only a foot or so shorter than Dwarves but also lacked that strength and solidity.

As for helping a friend in danger - as an example, Sam doesn't tank Shelob. He goes berserk and lays into her, a sword in each hand; she's taken aback by his sheer ferocity. Elsewhere, the hobbits score victories by being underestimated and ignored by enemies, as when the Witch-king ignores Merry, or when the Troll which was intent on finishing off Beregond failed to notice Pippin, who promptly stabbed it in the gut and killed it. That sets tne standard for plausible hobbit heroics (and one still has to bear in mind that Merry and Pippin had grown to what was heroic stature for hobbits, thanks to the Ent-draughts they'd drunk). Wearing heavy armour, toting a shield and yelling defiance (in the inevitably small, rather piping voice hobbits would have) would be very likely to end up being suicidal bravery against anything much bigger than the average Goblin, with the bold but foolish hobbit ending up being hammered into the ground like a tent-peg.

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Basically I completely agree with what you're saying - that's why I said it's very shaky ground. And I would have by far preferred to have my dwarven girl again, but there ain't any. It was the choice between pestilence and cholera, in a way. Playing a male dwarf (and I _never_ play male characters) or playing a hobbit tank. None of them made me very happy, to be honest. In the end I decided for the lesser evil... and as the game offers the possibility for hobbit tanks (as unrealistic as they might be) I decided for that one.

On the other hand I'm not a hardcore RPer, more the average player that still likes to have some background in her head for the character she's playing right now. You won't find me around the Prancing Pony with a white name above my head, but you won't also find me duelling in Elrond's halls.

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Originally Posted by c_the_awesome

You cant use a very special hobbit as an example becouse he is a very special hobbit. There is only one Samwise Gamgee, and you can't be him. As for hobbits having adventures, hobbits consider padling from Frogmorton an adventure...

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*laughs* True that... one just has to listen to the discussions of the NPCs in the shires. Sometimes I think even visiting the next village seems adventurous to them.
On the other hand, to me that makes it even more realistic to get rid of wolves and other annoyances for them, cause they really seem helpless. Not like some Rohan warriors...

Reading some of the posts above I feel like some people want to play 'Middle Earth Simulator' but they make do with 'Lord of the Rings Online'