Burgle and some useless Burglar skills

Lo all :

Burgle Skill : It fails 75% of the time, and when you manage to steal something is totally useless or even that does not correspond to the level of the enemy that you stole. For example, inside crafting instances you can burgle lvl 75 potions from humanoids being level 85 enemies. I think burglars should have the chance of steal things from the same level of the enemy. Or even developers can the chance to burgle marbles, stun dust, burglar hatchets ... I mean something USEFUL . I never thought that a thief could not steal ..

Well Placed Strike: 3 secs induction... how many of u use it guys? U need to strike from back to increase damage, I never use it when solo, I always start with SS and I can´t remember when I use it in fellow/raid...

I have got many other ideas and suggestions but I want to see your before your opinions and see if the issue is relevant or not for all.

P.D.: Sorry about my english. bb...

I agree WPS is pretty useless. But Burgle, I love to Burgle. Because - Hey - Free Stuff.

And I like WPS. :)
It's one of the strongest bleeds in-game, although the long cooldown and induction prevents it from being a corner stone in any dps rotation. Personally I would prefer to have the induction reduced to 1,5 secs, and 30 secs longer cooldown.


Burgle on the other hand, I've stopped using. My bags have no room for low lvl power pots or weapons that are 3-4 levels below. Sometimes I use it while in a fellowship for the giggles. Of course, the giggles turn into moans and insults when I accidentally pull a group of mobs..

Well placed strike is the quintessential thievish backstab. Used properly, it is used to START a fight with, not as part of a rotation. Sneak up behinfd your mark, put the damage amplifier on him, aim if you have the quiet knife hytbold set, then let the poor sucker have it. Of course, this rquires great stealth to be worth trying - and killing things in stealth is too slow for the max dps crowd. However, it is satisfying when it works. How burgs are SUPPOSED to be.

Similarly with burgle. The skill is nerfed to pointlessness, but how much worse would things be if we lost our PvE only, useless steal? Burgs are SUPPOSED to be able to steal. You never know, one day they might come up with this totally-original, never-before-seen idea of putting keys on mobs. ( I mean keys that actually let you into instance areas, not sturdy steel keys, although I wouldn't exactly turn those down, either)

I have found mobs in Moria are best for "Burgling". But I think the loot chance got nerfed a while back

I could go in there on my lvl 52 Brg and pretty much guarantee pilferring the Radiant Cloak Recipe, or Tools of the xx Recipes

I only think it was AFTER Moria or Mirkwood that the loot table changes to not-so decent loot

I think the Mobs have realised we are now hoarding the good stuff in safe places ... House Chests or Vaults

Burgle is more of a fluff skill than anything, just like our forced sneeze. It's there just to add flavor to the class. Thank god they switched the gamble on it to distract instead.

I don't see the point of burgle, since you can't really use it on just anyone. Would be nice if it could be used on townspeople and stuff.

Mischief Stance.

Gamble Stance.

Burgle.

Diversion.

WPS.

Clever Retort.

Practical Joke.

Enrage. This was on the cusp.

When soloing crowded areas, I like WPS as as opener on a mezzed mob. If you're not in stealth, it's much better than Cunning Attack. Mez a mob from stealth, and use CA or Surprise Strike from stealth as an opener on the other. When you're done with him, run behind the mezzed mob and toss WPS to wake him.

As usual I feel compelled to respond to this thread..

WPS is a useless skill in all the situations that have been mentioned already in this thread. It does less damage than cunning attack. It has an induction which is time wasted not doing damage also..

Mezzed target.. aim + CA (~3300 over 20 seconds) will do more damage than WPS(~2600dmg over 30 seconds) . Plus you get to hit for another two seconds instead of being in an induction..

As an opener, You may as well just do SS or CA, both will hit harder than WPS.

Toe to toe with a mob attacking you.. you may as well just kill it rather than muck around with a mob trying to break your induction.

If you don't have cunning wound slotted. you would even out a cunnin vs WPS. But if you don't have cunning wound slotted, you would probably have strategic planning slotted.. So you may as well IFA, hit hit hit, stun, aim/LiE, SS.. assuming the mob lives that long...

for the Oh but you cant stack CA, so I use WPS that is coming. Stealth CA and normal CA will stack. WPS has no use being on anyone's skill bar.

Tbh, I rarely use WPS from stealth. It feels like a waste since it doesn't have any 'from stealth' bonuses like SS or CA. Even though the guaranteed crit is nice, I prefer using Aim for that purpose.

I also rarely use WPS outside of raids, where the boss fights allow you to apply the dot multiple times. When fighting multiple mobs, they tend to have low health, so a critted SS usually finishes the fight faster.

The nature (ie, damage and thus aggro spread out over a long period of time, positional requirement) of the skill makes me believe that WPS was designed as a boss fight skill. I wouldn't be surprised if turbine in the close future adds some debuff component to the skill, +inc damage or something like that.


So for the OP; YMMW.

I'd like to see my burglar steal some horselord recipes. :)

My 2ps:

WPS - Agree with most of the other posters that this skill isn't worth a slot on your quickbars - it's very situational (i.e. the baddy has to be static/stunned because of the induction) and you should be able to do more damage / apply more tricks in those few seconds anyway.

Burgle - OK so most of the stuff we burgle is trash, but it's FUN.

Diversion - Not sure why some people seem to think this is a worthless skill, if you enjoy stealth attacks then it's a lot easier and quicker to get positional bonus using Diversion than it is moving behind the mob. It's also mighty handy for avoiding gate guards when sneaking into enemy camps without having to fight them. And you get a debuff with gambler and the trait.

Clever Retort - Also worthless since it's gated on Mischief stance which is (as things stand anyway) largely unused in favour of QK unless you're on mez-duty, which is a shame because the skill is fun.

Confound - Same as Clever Retort, should be fun, isn't! Hard to pull off solo, impossible in groups, gated by the weakest trait-line, requires a trait make the number of mobs it's hits worthwhile, and to top it off it can be resisted. Another one that many burgs don't even have on their quickslots.

Mischief Stance.

Gamble Stance.

Burgle.

WPS.

Clever Retort.

Enrage.

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these are trash skills , stance should be burry and forget in past

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Originally Posted by ieronymides

Mischief Stance.

Gamble Stance.

Burgle.

WPS.

Clever Retort.

Enrage.

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these are trash skills , stance should be burry and forget in past

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If you trait red, and never trait anything else, then yes. But burg is not just stealthed dpser...

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Originally Posted by ieronymides

Mischief Stance.

Gamble Stance.

Burgle.

WPS.

Clever Retort.

Enrage.

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these are trash skills , stance should be burry and forget in past

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Mischief Stance - I still use this in raids when I need to permamezz stuff and have no need to stealth. It's totally worth giving up a bit of extra dps/evade chance for a permamezz. Plus I can always break out if I need to use IFA.

Gamble Stance - I'm a Gambler, and sometimes there's just no point in the positional damage or reduced threat from QK. For example, when you solo.

Burgle - Yeah, this is useless. More of a fluff skill to make us feel like Burglars than anything else, really.

WPS - I don't mathcraft, so I won't go into the whole argument about whether or not this is useful.

Clever Retort - Useless if you're QK, but I'm a Gambler. This is actually fairly potent, although it could do with a shorter CD.

Enrage - Once again, only useless if untraited and you're in QK. As a Gambler, this is one of my favorite skills. It lets me start off fights with two mezzed mobs (three if you use set bonus Riddle) - very handy for 3-mans.

The above skills are only 'useless' if you're in QK and raiding all the time. When soloing, or doing 3 or 6 mans as a Gambler, they're perfectly fine. I contribute a fair bit of crowd control while still putting out a good amount of single target DPS, often times enough to still take aggro off decently geared champions and hunters. Yes, QK is more useful nowadays because CC is not required as much, but there are still plenty of instances where the extra utility really helps.

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Originally Posted by Geno-Max

Enrage - Once again, only useless if untraited and you're in QK. As a Gambler, this is one of my favorite skills. It lets me start off fights with two mezzed mobs (three if you use set bonus Riddle) - very handy for 3-mans.

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I think you're confusing Enrage with Provoke .. I think the only time Enrage is useful is if you have no main tank in smaller instances (so the mob will bounce from one target to another instead of concentrating on just one).. and even that's iffy.

That's untraited of course, traited it's just an "ok" way to pull a ranged mob to you when riddle is on cd.

I'm also traited Gambler, with a bleed build .. because I enjoy it and don't enjoy raiding.
This makes Clever Retort one of my absolute favorite skills .. which I too wish was on a shorter cooldown.

Even so, I only use WPS as an opener when not in stealth on a mezzed mob.. and even I find it pretty close to useless.

For me, the fairly useless skills are as follows (whether because they're limited, or simply too difficult to make useful):

Confound
Practical Joke
Share the Fun (this COULD be a great skill for some gameplay if it automatically enabled "follow")
Whatever the Mischief "Root" skill is
Exposed Throat (FM & Stun chance is too low.. should activate automatically on a Crit or Devastate)
Trip (outside of Draigoch)
The FM skill reset (just have a successful FM enable this for the Burg, or allow Clever Retort to activate it also)
Enrage (I wish this would cause a mob to turn on another mob in range for the duration of the trick instead of what it does now)
WPS and it's induction (Improve it with a shortened induction and up it's bleed potency, right now it's just a weak CA)

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Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

I think you're confusing Enrage with Provoke .. I think the only time Enrage is useful is if you have no main tank in smaller instances (so the mob will bounce from one target to another instead of concentrating on just one).. and even that's iffy.

That's untraited of course, traited it's just an "ok" way to pull a ranged mob to you when riddle is on cd.

I'm also traited Gambler, with a bleed build .. because I enjoy it and don't enjoy raiding.
This makes Clever Retort one of my absolute favorite skills .. which I too wish was on a shorter cooldown.

Even so, I only use WPS as an opener when not in stealth on a mezzed mob.. and even I find it pretty close to useless.

For me, the fairly useless skills are as follows (whether because they're limited, or simply too difficult to make useful):

Confound
Practical Joke
Share the Fun (this COULD be a great skill for some gameplay if it automatically enabled "follow")
Whatever the Mischief "Root" skill is
Exposed Throat (FM & Stun chance is too low.. should activate automatically on a Crit or Devastate)
Trip (outside of Draigoch)
The FM skill reset (just have a successful FM enable this for the Burg, or allow Clever Retort to activate it also)
Enrage (I wish this would cause a mob to turn on another mob in range for the duration of the trick instead of what it does now)
WPS and it's induction (Improve it with a shortened induction and up it's bleed potency, right now it's just a weak CA)

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Oh yeah, that's right. My bad. Have to admit though, Enrage is the ultimate troll skill xD

I agree with your list, but would also add Location is Everything to the list. Even for a one-shot skill, it adds very little. Flashing Blades is also dangerously close to getting on the list - for a legendary skill, it's extremely underwhelming. Even though I still trait it, I find myself increasingly preferring the fast skills over FB+Addle.

Umm..

Actually, forget it. You pro. I'm ho.

Multiple people put Enrage as being useless.... Must disagree. Great utilization ability in the moors.. Being able to grey out all of the Black Arrow's big hitting skills... Ummm not useless.. Keeping a target in combat that is running away from long distance... Umm not useless. The utilization is there outside of the moors too... Just think it would be better for small group play other than raid type situations.

oh, almost forgot: The induction for WPS is perfect when you need a 2 second break from the action without gimping your dps too much!

Want a sip of coffee? Need to scratch that itch or change seating position? Just throw down WPS, do your thing, then resume the action.

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Originally Posted by Agonize

Multiple people put Enrage as being useless.... Must disagree. Great utilization ability in the moors.. Being able to grey out all of the Black Arrow's big hitting skills... Ummm not useless.. Keeping a target in combat that is running away from long distance... Umm not useless. The utilization is there outside of the moors too... Just think it would be better for small group play other than raid type situations.

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Sorry, I should have clarified that I don't play in the Moors either.. twas just my personal PvE list.

I do see how it would be rather useful in the Moors.

But, despite the PvE uses listed by you and I, I still feel it's very limited.. and I think it's best use needs to be traited for (No, I don't mean trolling, heheh). Not sure I can think of a trait I'd drop to equip the Enrage one.

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Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

Sorry, I should have clarified that I don't play in the Moors either.. twas just my personal PvE list.

I do see how it would be rather useful in the Moors.

But, despite the PvE uses listed by you and I, I still feel it's very limited.. and I think it's best use needs to be traited for (No, I don't mean trolling, heheh). Not sure I can think of a trait I'd drop to equip the Enrage one.

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I use this skill often when I am soloing a skirm. I send the soldier to attack and use it to bounce the mob between myself and the soldier. That way I am usually facing the back of the mob where my damage is more effective.

B-but. . But, I love Burgle. ;.;
Or, I *would* love Burgle if it did not fail nearly ever single time it is used. >.<

I think Confound is kinda useless most of the time as well, since it has that looooong delay between the casting and the mez. Main reason it goes untouched for me is simply that my pocket-Captain will end up either killing it before the mez takes effect or he will immediately break the mez the second it is activated. That always gives me a sad.

Pretty much agree with the other mentioned useless stuff. I hope they find a way to make this stuff more useful in the future.

I burgled my way through many a year ignorant of the true power of enrage. You can take my burgle skill, but leave blind fury alone! I carry the trait these days, by default, unless I really need something else.

For those thinking this skill is useful, please *carefully* reread the skill tool-tip when you have 'blind fury' traited. This skill rocks!

When you use this skill, your target loses the ability to do most (in some cases, all) ranged attacks. Also, the mob will switch targets randomly after each attack.

In the moors: Black arrows hit hard ... until you disable most of their ranged skills. Want to HIPS but you know that spider pet will just follow you anyway? Archer mobs attacking you from somewhere you don't want to go because you'll aggro more?

In groups/instances: Is your healer getting hit because the tank is stunned or dead or otherwise not getting all the aggro? Is a ranged mob avoiding the ball of death your aoe group has arranged? Is a mob deadly at range but weak close up? Does your 3-man group not have a tank or healer and you need to spread the damage around?

This is not a useless skill - burglars (like myself not so long ago) who are not using this skill / trait because they think this skill is useless will be in for quite a surprise when they discover how truly powerful this skill is.

I disagree with the fact that WPS is useless... although I can kill guys faster not using it...
Burgle on the other hand is right now totally useless:(
All the other skills are good.

Besides burgle (not including sneeze either, or share the fun) and perhaps WPS and Location is Everything, burglar skills are not useless. What is happening, rather, is that the developers are failing to utilize burglars' unique fellowship benefits.

Sure it's easy to understand why people want cappies for buffs and LMs for a personal battery and supreme CC etc. Burglars are nerfed at 85 to being only DPS. There is rarely any need to have mobs permamezzed, debuffed or FMs. It isn't that our skills are useless... it's that they aren't required at all in most situations. Draigoich made burglaring fun and at least the for me, exhilarating. Knowing that the fellowship is counting on you to start an FM... priceless. Knowing that the fellowship needs you to permamez a troll in the Sewers of Isengard... rewarding and challenging.

Mounted Combat v 2 makes me feel like a burglar again. Please make the next series of raids need a burglar. Otherwise, it will be the same daggon thing over and over again in LFF: Need 1 tank, 1 cappy, 1 mini/rk and the rest Champions and Hunters.

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Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie

Mischief Stance. -Traitline dependent. I see the occasional burglar using it for raids.

Gamble Stance. -Traitline dependent, Gambler burglars do extremely well

Burgle. -I've burgled some decent things, but pretty useless.

Diversion. -If you have it traited, it can apply a Debuffing gamble. Plus it's nice for when you're sneaking through highly concentrated areas.

WPS. -Useless in a rotation because of the induction, and the DoT is useless everywhere except instances, where the mob should be turned around anyway.

Clever Retort. -Stance dependent. This is a highly useful skill for Gambler/MM burgs.

Practical Joke. -Pointless, but whatever.

Enrage. This was on the cusp. I use it (when traited) against BA's in the moors. It's also fun to use, for instance, at the last fight in the Rift. :P

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My take on your list.

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Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

Confound
Practical Joke
Share the Fun (this COULD be a great skill for some gameplay if it automatically enabled "follow")
Whatever the Mischief "Root" skill is
Exposed Throat (FM & Stun chance is too low.. should activate automatically on a Crit or Devastate)
Trip (outside of Draigoch)
The FM skill reset (just have a successful FM enable this for the Burg, or allow Clever Retort to activate it also)
Enrage (I wish this would cause a mob to turn on another mob in range for the duration of the trick instead of what it does now)
WPS and it's induction (Improve it with a shortened induction and up it's bleed potency, right now it's just a weak CA)

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1-Useful in raids
2-true
3-useful in raids, if you're traited full yellow with captsone, it's a root +3% inc damage on the mob for 30s every 15s, so pretty much perma root.
4-The skill is fine, we already have 2 FM openers, marbles, and 2 CD resets.
5-Trip and exploit opening are pretty good still, the legendary trait should be modified tho.
6-If you actually did some grouping, this one would be useful.
7-I agree this is pretty bad outside the traited one in PvP.
8-agreed

80+% of my Burgle nets me a potion I can use. My Alts have not had to buy or make potions in what seems like forever. I carry tools to increase my success and also increase my stealth level and my stealth movement speed. Burgle is one of the few remaining fun skills to solo at.

The reason OP is getting so many failures is because I have already stripped the mobs of anything of value before the OP gets there and I am long gone.

http://i42.tinypic.com/33d8bvo.gif

After burgling the pants off of a patrolling Orc in Angmar, this skill is one of my favourite. Being an excellent potion-source and gave me a couple of SA items for my alts in Moria.
My take is that most ppl feeling their burgle skill doesn't work don't do it properly: sneak up from behind after distracting the target and then sift through the pockets standing still. Works 99.9% of the time for me. The remaining 0.1% just turns out the target didn't have anything on them or the skill critically fails.

I hope they do fix the Burgle drops. I'm running around Moria, about 95% of the time I fail to pocket something. So far all I'm getting is power potions and a map to Bree dropped over the last 2 days. I've hit every area in Moria & hugely disappointed. So council members? Please ask the Devs to expand the drops and make then more often than not.

Someone suggested traiting to The Gambler for more/better drops? Is there a specific combo needed involving the other two class traits? (Like a LM need 3 of this & 2 of that to get the 30 second mez).

I like the Burgle feature, more fun than just random killing.

But we're BURGS, we're supposed to be able to steal stuff. I think the drop rates really needs to be loosened up. We should be
able to pocket everything available; lootboxes, keys, armor at our levels, etc.

Seriously? Show us a burg that can't steal something....then what's the purpose of having a burg in the game?

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Originally Posted by DirtyDeeds2

80+% of my Burgle nets me a potion I can use. My Alts have not had to buy or make potions in what seems like forever. I carry tools to increase my success and also increase my stealth level and my stealth movement speed. Burgle is one of the few remaining fun skills to solo at.

The reason OP is getting so many failures is because I have already stripped the mobs of anything of value before the OP gets there and I am long gone.

http://i42.tinypic.com/33d8bvo.gif

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What tools to increase the burgle %?

change "burgle" to "pickpocket" which would be allowed during combat and acts like enrage skill. always hits for minimal item (cash) with chance to loot decent items.

gets rid of two useless skills and makes one useless skill.

*edit* don't get me wrong I like enrage skill in certain spots

Burgle: For RP purposes (Laurelin server) I rolled my Hobbit Historian as a Burglar (not the other way around), so in theory she could steal (back) scholar items. When Burgle doesn't work she just kills the mob and takes what they don't deserve to own. As the ne'er-do-wells frequently hide out in ruins, this synergizes well with her raiding urns and coffers for historical finds.

Up to Level 20 in practice this worked, but her execution was poor and she was generally far over-leveled for the targeted mobs. Once shifting her territory to Bree-Land and hitting more on-level and above-level brigands, her technique as well as her haul has improved dramatically. The swag bag now has seen some sweet teal weapons unavailable from crafting, vendors, or skirmish camps. Angmar shall pay a heavy tax for sending in such easy marks!

I would say that the angle of approach is critical. The closer she is to full frontal the closer to zero the results. I'll have to try Diversion more and see if her haul rate improves.

I have been playing around with Burgle and was wondering how you can tell if you have successfully burgled? So far I can't tell that I have gotten anything off any of my targets.

If you look in your general chat log after a burgle attempt, it will either tell you that you got nothing, or will tell you what you pickpocketed. Burgled items will also appear in your loot bag, or in your regular bags if you auto-loot.

Yep, doesn't work 75% of the time for me either and when it does, its always potions.

Seriously, a good burg skill they need to fix.

I quite liked Burgle giving some form of debuff as well as loot, although the loot table needs serious dev time. I tend to laugh like a small child (even one aged 55) when the loot is essentially a pair of trousers from the hapless mark. Slower thinkers may need to visialusie this again...:-)
It would be interesting if each trait line had a unique effect from Burgle
Red Line: steal weapon, mobs first attack automatically misses. Not the same as Addle which interrupts an induction or causes a skill to fail (perhaps could be traited for up to 3 additional attacks). Alternatively as the "disarmed" debuff player toons get, so no weapon bonuses or effects and damage limited to slapping.
Blue Line: steal random item, and causes a Distraction, 20% speed debuff on all skills for 15s (perhaps could be increased to 30s with trait ponts)
Yellow Line: drop a mousetrap into the mob's pocket for a 3s Stun with the horror of just exactly where that thing is poised, ready to snap...ouch. Stun followed by 20s of 40% speed debuff as the mob frantically tries to get the mousetrap out wihtout it snapping shut. 5% chance of it snapping shut for an addional 15s Stun (dont ask!) Might be increased to 10% with additional trait points.

Success also gians a random item for the mob type, level and location, the loot tables do need a revamp and should include some stuff decent enough to encourage use of the skill. Success does not break Stealth, on the whole failure should not do so but perhaps lowers your stealth level by some amount for the cooldown period of the skill.


Remember that essentially only living humainoid mobs can be Burgled, so no Unseen, Dragons or Trolls as an example. Indeterminate as to viability for general use in raids but a little fun and colour. Theoretically, using current game, you might use these skills on the first boss pair in Abyss, but not on the 2nd and 3rd boss. Some RTs and Scourges would be susceptible, first boss in the Warg Pens etc so gives Burglars a little more input and makes use of the unique playstyle.

Burgle + HIPS + Burgles while combat rages would not work or would become OP