Captain Issues 12.2

Trying to collect Captain issues in this thread. I've bugged all the issues.

Armor Set Bonuses:
ToO Dagor 2-set bonus is bugged, it triggers every time you hit with SL (though I guess 100% chance is still a chance :P )
Greater Erebor Leader 4-set bonus reduces Last Stand cooldown by a lot more than 25%


Inspiriting Presence Trait Set Bonus:
Inspire and Valiant Strike does not seem to grant Inspiriting Presence on critical heals, they grant the buff when the damage hit is a critical strike.
Using Inspire or Valiant Strike after using Valiant Strike or Inspire always consumes the buff, makes the skill do a critical damage hit and grant the Inspiriting Presence buff again.
Gallant Display and Standard of X always consumes the Inspiriting Presence buff, but only the damage is a 100% crit.
Auto Attacks Devastating Blow, Pressing Attack, Sure Strike, Cleanse Corruption and Blade of Elendil sometimes consumes the Inspiriting Presence buff. In case the buff is consumed, the hit is a critical hit (or perhaps the opposite, when the hit is a crit the buff is consumed?)
Grave Wound sometimes consumes the Inspiriting Presence buff, but it does not seem to grant a critical strike.
Ground Targetable Standards always consume the buff and seems to always grant 1 critical hit
Muster Courage consumes the Inspiriting Presence buff: "Meramir applied a critical benefit with Muster Courage on Meramir." - Now what is a critical benefit?

This trait set bonus sure is confusing :P

LtC: Vital Stroke Trait:
Either the tooltip is outdated or the -5s Grave Wound cooldown is bugged, the trait does not change Grave Wound cooldown.

LoM: Demand Attention Trait:
This trait is confusing to lower level Captains because you can get the trait before you get the skill related to the trait (Grave Wound). What about having the trait tooltip describe that Grave Wound is available at lvl 42 (and perhaps do the same with other traits?) or make Grave Wound available earlier than lvl 42?

Gallant Display buff:
If you have the Gallant Display buff up (rank 1 to 3) it sometimes do not renew when you use Gallant Display. Instead, a secondary Gallant Display buff is created, so you can end up with a Tier 3 and a Tier 1 buff at the same time. The test was done on Dummies and the Turtle in Filikul, happens both places.

Tactics not stacking:
Tactics are still not stacking. I think it's fine that the same tactic do not stack (e.g. 2x Relentless) but I really think different tactics should stack (e.g. Relentless + On Guard) so both Captains in the group can make use of their buffs.

SotD + Audacity:
Being able to get more than -100% incoming damage on a regular basis in Ettenmoors is making LoM Captains very hard to kill. I suggest looking at how Audacity and SotD complement eachother or make a Moors-only nerf to SotD so you cannot reach -100% incoming damage.

One thing bothers me for a while. It is not new, but I was hoping it would be addressed in 12.2.

The Grave Wound cooldown is never reduced as promised by one of the traits in the LtC tree. The final rank of Vital Stroke trait tells that the cooldown should be reduced by 5s and it would make it 15s allowing to stack grave wound dot 3 times with a maxed pulse legacy. However, my Grave Wound is always 20s both as written on tooltip and the actual behavior of the skill proves it.

I wonder if it is a misleading description of the trait or a bug which I should keep /bugging?

Well, Pre-HD Grave Wound used to be on a 30s which could then be reduced by 5s from legacy. I think the trait was supposed to lower it for another 5s (to 20s) before RockX slaughtered all those poor cooldown legacies+bonuses and made Grave Wound default cooldown 20s. So while the tooltip does specify -5s cooldown, I don't think you should expect lower cooldown than 20s.

I feel like I'm always losing Gallant Display stacks when the Inspiriting Presence buff is consumed (need to do some more targetted testing to see whether this is actually the case, but it sure looks like it). This doesn't look like it's WAI. Also, I'm pretty sure this wasn't happening before 12.1.

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Originally Posted by Bezmer

I feel like I'm always losing Gallant Display stacks when the Inspiriting Presence buff is consumed (need to do some more targetted testing to see whether this is actually the case, but it sure looks like it). This doesn't look like it's WAI. Also, I'm pretty sure this wasn't happening before 12.1.

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I don't seem to get that, but there are issues with how Gallant Display stacks, sometimes it creates a new tier 1 buff rather than renewing your current buff.

Not in release notes, but is the moors banner upgraded yet by any chance?

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Originally Posted by Elrantiri

I don't seem to get that, but there are issues with how Gallant Display stacks, sometimes it creates a new tier 1 buff rather than renewing your current buff.

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You may be right, I just noticed I have had an issue with GD stacks since 12.1, and pegged it to the most likely candidate.

It's kind of hard to follow everything that's going on with the million icons we have on our bar.

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Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

Not in release notes, but is the moors banner upgraded yet by any chance?

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No, only new rings
http://imageshack.com/a/img594/8528/vo12.jpg

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Originally Posted by Elrantiri

Well, Pre-HD Grave Wound used to be on a 30s which could then be reduced by 5s from legacy. I think the trait was supposed to lower it for another 5s (to 20s) before RockX slaughtered all those poor cooldown legacies+bonuses and made Grave Wound default cooldown 20s. So while the tooltip does specify -5s cooldown, I don't think you should expect lower cooldown than 20s.

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I personally find 15s cd to be a bit overpowered, but this tooltip exists, it is a new trait added in HD - not an artefact in a form of an old legacy. It also causes a lot of questions and if it is just a wrong trait description - it should be corrected.

Thank you for adding it to the list of captain bugs. Hopefully at least some of these bugs will be soon addressed :)

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Originally Posted by Elrantiri

Gallant Display buff:
If you have the Gallant Display buff up (rank 1 to 3) it sometimes do not renew when you use Gallant Display. Instead, a secondary Gallant Display buff is created, so you can end up with a Tier 3 and a Tier 1 buff at the same time. The test was done on Dummies and the Turtle in Filikul, happens both places.

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This is because it appears you're getting the wrong version of the Gallant Display buff when at Tier 3 with Inspiriting Presence and trying to refresh the buff. I just fixed it internally, but I don't think the fix will be able to make it into 12.2.

I'll look into the other things as well.

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Originally Posted by RockX

This is because it appears you're getting the wrong version of the Gallant Display buff when at Tier 3 with Inspiriting Presence and trying to refresh the buff. I just fixed it internally, but I don't think the fix will be able to make it into 12.2.

I'll look into the other things as well.

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Hey Rockx, what use are the mitigation moors rings when we are already capped in mits, why not add a fell wrought and orc-craft mitigation to those things to give them some actual use. thanks.

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Originally Posted by PERQ

Hey Rockx, what use are the mitigation moors rings when we are already capped in mits, why not add a fell wrought and orc-craft mitigation to those things to give them some actual use. thanks.

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That would be better aimed towards Jinjaah. I don't really have much to do with the Ettenmoors. I'm not too familiar with how those damage types function compared to the others.

Is the armaments change making it into 12.2, or a later update?

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Originally Posted by RockX

This is because it appears you're getting the wrong version of the Gallant Display buff when at Tier 3 with Inspiriting Presence and trying to refresh the buff. I just fixed it internally, but I don't think the fix will be able to make it into 12.2.

I'll look into the other things as well.

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Yeah that sounds about right, if I pick LtC or HoH without putting enough points in to get Inspiriting Presence it seems to work as expected. I guess Inspiriting Presence is causing quite some trouble then :p

Which skills is the autocrit from Inspiriting Presence supposed to affect? As for Tactical Skills (which is what the tooltip mentions) I guess that only Rallying Cry, Routing Cry and Words of Courage should be getting the autocrit, and that feels like quite a limitation in choices.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Is the armaments change making it into 12.2, or a later update?

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That's currently set for 13.

My Cappy's Oathbreaker pet has a graphic bug. It looks as if there is a reflection on the ground of the Oathie, very wierd looking, 1st noticed it in HD beta, has this been fixed?

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Originally Posted by RockX

That would be better aimed towards Jinjaah. I don't really have much to do with the Ettenmoors. I'm not too familiar with how those damage types function compared to the others.

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Could you perhaps have a discussion with Jinjaah about the interaction between the Shield of the Dunedain skill and audacity? While the skill combined with cooldown reductions seem pretty over the top in many pvp or pve scenarios, its flat out broken and opens up exploitative behavior as it stands now in PvP.

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Originally Posted by RockX

That's currently set for 13.

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Eh.... if it means it gets done right for U13, it'll be worth the wait.

Just don't want to wait XD

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Originally Posted by aardnebby

Outstanding issues:

Short buff range of auras, EG herald buff, IDOME, Motivation - Suggested solution would be to make this a skill like our tactics (massive 80m range, duration of say 10 seconds) but is re-triggered every 3 seconds without user input.

Poor herald performance (various) - At level cap DPS is still pathetic and the Heightened Allies trait is effectively worthless compared to almost any other trait even at double the cost - no idea what I can suggest here because something tells me even if the herald does 10 times the DPS it does now (400dps instead of 40!) the pathing is not going to improve and we are stuck with the herald whether we want it or not. There are several AoE skills that kill the herald despite us being told most would not affect it. It cannot be summoned on the move (you have to stand still for the induction). It still suffers various "eye" effects. The only contribution to the playability of the captain is when you want x-brother while soloing, wouldn't a stance do just as well (such as Warspeech used to work for minstrels).

X-brother skills - Lack of flexibility - should be made general skills - why are we buffing other peoples tanking ability when we are in tank stance? Likewise heals? I want to shield brother the tank when I am a healer! I want blade brother always available because more dps = faster runs. I want to song brother when I have a captain tanking and he needs more power, or because I have a full team of minstrels and RKs and LMs who want more tactical mastery.

Tactics buff over-rights tactics of other captains in the group (sometimes? For some reason with Focus/Relentless it didnt seem to over-right, but with On Guard/Relentless the most recent one took precedence). Tactics skills should be more controllable OR stack.

Tactics - on guard - still utterly awful. The only person in the group with power problems is the tank traited captain (so power cost is pointless for 5 out of 6), the parry rating and defence % are only useful if you are taking damage. Of no interest to anyone.

Tactics - focus - 2% tactical mitigation? huh? Incoming healing % isn't really a buff, it's the same as increasing all your heals by a few % (less than 5%, because most people who need healing a lot already have incoming heal %, and going from say 130% to 135% is actually an improvement of approx 3.8%). Yes yes it increases self heals, but seriously?

Last stand - IMHO reduced length of duration on it still makes it pointless, putting it into the tank line is counterproductive and the heal is pathetic. Can we do something with this skill to make it something I will use at some point? A bubble for example?

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Also:

Master of war buffs with same icon/name. No way of knowing what is actually going on without mouseover or a plugin that shows you the duration and enough experience to recognise the different duration of the different kinds of buff.

Short buff area of auras also applies to banner skills (seriously, what were you thinking with all these short range buffs in "Big" battles?)

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Originally Posted by aardnebby

Quote Originally Posted by aardnebby View Post

Outstanding issues:

Short buff range of auras, EG herald buff, IDOME, Motivation - Suggested solution would be to make this a skill like our tactics (massive 80m range, duration of say 10 seconds) but is re-triggered every 3 seconds without user input.

Poor herald performance (various) - At level cap DPS is still pathetic and the Heightened Allies trait is effectively worthless compared to almost any other trait even at double the cost - no idea what I can suggest here because something tells me even if the herald does 10 times the DPS it does now (400dps instead of 40!) the pathing is not going to improve and we are stuck with the herald whether we want it or not. There are several AoE skills that kill the herald despite us being told most would not affect it. It cannot be summoned on the move (you have to stand still for the induction). It still suffers various "eye" effects. The only contribution to the playability of the captain is when you want x-brother while soloing, wouldn't a stance do just as well (such as Warspeech used to work for minstrels).

X-brother skills - Lack of flexibility - should be made general skills - why are we buffing other peoples tanking ability when we are in tank stance? Likewise heals? I want to shield brother the tank when I am a healer! I want blade brother always available because more dps = faster runs. I want to song brother when I have a captain tanking and he needs more power, or because I have a full team of minstrels and RKs and LMs who want more tactical mastery.

Tactics buff over-rights tactics of other captains in the group (sometimes? For some reason with Focus/Relentless it didnt seem to over-right, but with On Guard/Relentless the most recent one took precedence). Tactics skills should be more controllable OR stack.

Tactics - on guard - still utterly awful. The only person in the group with power problems is the tank traited captain (so power cost is pointless for 5 out of 6), the parry rating and defence % are only useful if you are taking damage. Of no interest to anyone.

Tactics - focus - 2% tactical mitigation? huh? Incoming healing % isn't really a buff, it's the same as increasing all your heals by a few % (less than 5%, because most people who need healing a lot already have incoming heal %, and going from say 130% to 135% is actually an improvement of approx 3.8%). Yes yes it increases self heals, but seriously?

Last stand - IMHO reduced length of duration on it still makes it pointless, putting it into the tank line is counterproductive and the heal is pathetic. Can we do something with this skill to make it something I will use at some point? A bubble for example?
Also:

Master of war buffs with same icon/name. No way of knowing what is actually going on without mouseover or a plugin that shows you the duration and enough experience to recognise the different duration of the different kinds of buff.

Short buff area of auras also applies to banner skills (seriously, what were you thinking with all these short range buffs in "Big" battles?)

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I'm not in any position to answer most of this. I just want to say that I thought Last Stand was supposed to be used with In Harm's Way, then you're supposed to be depending on the healers to keep you from dying. If you have the LS legacy, the non-defeat time increases to 17s, but my legacy might be an early one, there may be a better one. I could use that to be 20s-25s to match the Harm's Way skill, otherwise, it's certain death. Seems to me, it's supposed to prevent fellowship wipe, but that's highly dependent on being able to de-dot, un-slow and heal the fellowship in the limited amount of time. But if LS expires before Harm's Way, then you're going to wipe the fellowship anyway if you're the only tank. Ergo, not useful atm. You could make the claim that we're not primarily tanks, but there's no point giving people "sorta" skills. Right now, you're over-relying on the healer to apply another death prevention at the EXACT right moment for this theory to work right. Too tricky, people will not use often.

I agree with most of what you said about heralds. I like pet classes and the pet has always been really low dps. In the olden times, when I was leveling the first captain, I'd just have him follow me around providing buffs because one fight and he'd be dead. So his survivability has improved, but he's still not "useful" in the sense that I expect a pet to be useful. Think on this... a loremaster has a pet.. a useful pet. And a loremaster can do some killer damage all by himself. He can evade instead of block and parry, though his armor is low. The only thing he fears is physical damage. OK... a captain has a pet, he can do some good damage, not as good as loremaster though, more of a tank with benefits, however his pet is so weak that he's constantly engaged in keeping it alive and buffing it - it's more of a tool for learning how to buff others than it is a tool for playing the class. At least that's how it looks to me at the moment. Both loremaster and captain can protect themselves, can damage foes themselves, and they both have pets. Why is the captain pet so weak? I suppose it's because the pet provides benefits to the whole fellowship or raid? OK, fine, but then, why does he die at the stroke of a feather? That's double whammy.

Too often I'm thinking "what happened to my herald?" in fellowships. Something just oneshots them. There's a serious lack of pet classes in this game, and people like me who like working with a pet (pet pulls, having the pet threaten, or having the pet kite, or just to provide benefits), we've got two choices... loremaster or captain. I noticed that now Loremaster pets are "too awesome"?? If you really want to see an OP pet, find a popular game that has conjurers and necromancers, you know the one... use ACT on a raid with maxed Conurors or Necros. You'll see some OP. This game is so incredibly far away from that that it's laughable to think that pets here are "too awesome." The Captain's pet needs to be more useful and take damage more slowly. Maybe there's a stat it's missing? I can't see all of its stats so I can't say. I can't answer a question like "How much crit defense does it have?" I wouldn't know where to look.

Honestly I haven't had as much trouble as most people with keeping the Archer alive, but I'm talking about soloing now. I keep some crests around for use when I enter solo instances, but for the most part, threatening shout with 6 targets keeps him alive just fine. For solos, I like him best for DPS. He's smarter somehow than the others, doesn't get stuck in pathing problems as much, and as long as I'm threatening the mobs, he's fairly trouble free. I do wish I could tell him to stand back and use his bow only. Maybe there's a chat command that I haven't discovered yet.

I would be happy with a compromise like "Archers die more easily in 6/12-man instances, but heralds have higher survivability in all areas." I'd sill like to see a little more herald dps and bigger heals (assuming I'm replenishing his power), and an aoe threat in case I do want to sacrifice my herald for some strategic purpose. Or just a sacrifice skill where he takes on all damage to me for a brief time (to cover those last 3 seconds of In Harm's Way after LS?). That would require skill and forethought on the part of the Captain. The sacrifice could have a cooldown.... ;)

I think the changes to make Captains more of a tank are great so far. The utility of the Archer is excellent for me and I'm kind of confused why people have such trouble with him. Only when the (solo) mobs get almost too hard for me do I switch to one of the heralds, but that's because I want heals and I expect that cooldowns will be an issue. I noticed rallying cry changes are coming, I'm looking forward to that. There seems to be some funny logic to it atm but I'd be unable to pinpoint what exactly.

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I just want to add that I noticed the power issues also. Out of power will occur with just a skirmish while leveling right now. The loremaster can pull power slowly from mobs, but we can't. Could the herald gain that ability? Or maybe a stance that replenishes power? I'm spending all of today cooking food because of this issue. I hope it helps.

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Originally Posted by gripply

Why is the captain pet so weak?

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Because our ranged slot is banner v armaments, so it's either buff us or the herald, and honestly, the herald is losing that one.

Here's to hoping the issue is resolved in U13.

Since this is a thread about bugs, I'll add two I noticed:

I'm leveling a new captain, he's in the 50s now. After I completed "A lesson from Boromir" I noticed the _In Defence of Middle Earth_ buff so I assume it was that quest that activated the skill. After research and asking forum questions I discovered that it was coming from the transformation of Motivating Speech into Improved Motivating Speech.

If indeed it was the quest that granted that skill, it would be great to have that listed as a reward. Currently the Boromir quest says "1 Class Trait Point" and nothing else.

Bug 1: Class quests should show skill benefits bestowed as well as Class Trait Points awarded.

I also had to read my passive skills very carefully to notice that halberds give you a 5% damage benefit. Somewhere on the forums I read that it used to be that halberds also gave you a threat benefit, but if that is still active, I can't find it documented on any skill. Personally I look for any reason to use a halberd in any game, but that's just preference. I realize most people like a BAS, but give me a halberd any day. My favorite console games are the ones where they took into account that I could hit the mobs before they could hit me with a halberd. Form up! CLoD! :D

Not sure how to address the "you must now read your passive skills carefully" issue except maybe to have the trainer mention it in their startup speech. Or have the tooltip for any halberd you equip show the passive benefit?

Bug 2: Passive skills might be ignored if they are not read carefully now.

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Originally Posted by gripply

Since this is a thread about bugs, I'll add two I noticed:

I'm leveling a new captain, he's in the 50s now. After I completed "A lesson from Boromir" I noticed the _In Defence of Middle Earth_ buff so I assume it was that quest that activated the skill. After research and asking forum questions I discovered that it was coming from the transformation of Motivating Speech into Improved Motivating Speech.

If indeed it was the quest that granted that skill, it would be great to have that listed as a reward. Currently the Boromir quest says "1 Class Trait Point" and nothing else.

Bug 1: Class quests should show skill benefits bestowed as well as Class Trait Points awarded.

I also had to read my passive skills very carefully to notice that halberds give you a 5% damage benefit. Somewhere on the forums I read that it used to be that halberds also gave you a threat benefit, but if that is still active, I can't find it documented on any skill. Personally I look for any reason to use a halberd in any game, but that's just preference. I realize most people like a BAS, but give me a halberd any day. My favorite console games are the ones where they took into account that I could hit the mobs before they could hit me with a halberd. Form up! CLoD! :D

Not sure how to address the "you must now read your passive skills carefully" issue except maybe to have the trainer mention it in their startup speech. Or have the tooltip for any halberd you equip show the passive benefit?

Bug 2: Passive skills might be ignored if they are not read carefully now.

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The former legendary trait quests now give players a trait point. You get Improved Motivating Speech while leveling now. Sounds like it's just a coincidence you got it after completing said quest.

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Originally Posted by gripply

I also had to read my passive skills very carefully to notice that halberds give you a 5% damage benefit. Somewhere on the forums I read that it used to be that halberds also gave you a threat benefit, but if that is still active, I can't find it documented on any skill.

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Some classes get a damage buff for a particular weapon -- for Captains, of course, that's the Halberd.

That passive bonus is distinct from any special buff inherent to the weapon type. (Example: Swords give a 1% parry buff, always.) The inherent bonus for halberds used to be a 2% threat buff. With Captains being a (mostly) non-tanking class, a lot of cappies went with a sword (after traiting the Man sword bonus). With only one class permitted to use halberds, and that class largely opting not to, halberds became an endangered species.

So, the halberd threat bonus was replaced -- it's now a 2% auto-attack crit buff. (Hover over your halberd to see it in the tool-tip.) This means you can get slightly more DPS with a halberd than with a 2H sword, *and* you don't have to use up a racial trait.

So I think for cappies, halberds are probably the 2H weapon of choice now.

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Originally Posted by Robeauch

Some classes get a damage buff for a particular weapon -- for Captains, of course, that's the Halberd.

That passive bonus is distinct from any special buff inherent to the weapon type. (Example: Swords give a 1% parry buff, always.) The inherent bonus for halberds used to be a 2% threat buff. With Captains being a (mostly) non-tanking class, a lot of cappies went with a sword (after traiting the Man sword bonus). With only one class permitted to use halberds, and that class largely opting not to, halberds became an endangered species.

So, the halberd threat bonus was replaced -- it's now a 2% auto-attack crit buff. (Hover over your halberd to see it in the tool-tip.) This means you can get slightly more DPS with a halberd than with a 2H sword, *and* you don't have to use up a racial trait.

So I think for cappies, halberds are probably the 2H weapon of choice now.

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Unless you tank a lot. The new captain tanking yellow tree is certainly viable in 6 man and faceroll difficulty 12 man content (and in specific circumstances even the more challenging 12 man).

IMHO the 2% parry chance is a bigger difference in tanking (since it appears to go over the 25% rating based cap) than 2% autoattack crit is in DPS (though since autoattacks do make a decent proportion of our damage, the halberd is still pretty good).

Yellow line is too overpowered, is that an issue?

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Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster

Yellow line is too overpowered, is that an issue?

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The Yellow line is not overpowered outside of Moors. The combination of Audacity and SotD is extremely overpowered, fix how those two stacks (or make a Moors-only nerf to SotD) and I think LoM Captains will be much more balanced in moors.

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Originally Posted by RockX

That would be better aimed towards Jinjaah. I don't really have much to do with the Ettenmoors. I'm not too familiar with how those damage types function compared to the others.

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I think maybe you should know with all due respect. I believe I now know why the Moors go down some ridiculous routes with some classes.

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Originally Posted by RockX

The former legendary trait quests now give players a trait point. You get Improved Motivating Speech while leveling now. Sounds like it's just a coincidence you got it after completing said quest.

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Thanks for the clarification on that! I know I first saw it at level 47 (+47) but I'm not very observant when on a skirmish run or finishing quests like a demon. Do you know what level it changes?

I read the other "traits" carefully and found them in the various blue/red/yellow spec lines. So I don't expect that the book deeds now award "Oathbreaker's" or any other ability anymore. Actually, I'm not sure you can get those abilities at level 50ish anymore, even if you spec in a pure single color, with no deviations, but I guess I can respect one of them and find out if I can reach the bottom. But I'm also not any kind of expert, maybe they're not all the pinnacle skills, just the Red spec line.

I got nice broadcast messages when I completed the book deeds saying "You gained 1 Class Trait Point" so that was helpful since it happened between levels, and mid-dungeon. I was duoing a 3-man with a Champion level 60 at the time and it really helped to get 2 points into In Harm's Way while halfway through. That's a very helpful gambit IF you can kill the mob before LS expires. TG for the legacy, lol. A mini would've been most welcome in our group right about then.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Because our ranged slot is banner v armaments, so it's either buff us or the herald, and honestly, the herald is losing that one.

Here's to hoping the issue is resolved in U13.

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I did do some testing on this. I'm only level 50-53 at the time of this conversation, but I do have a maxed tailor, and made the best armaments I could find for my Captain at this point. Until this comment, I hadn't really focused on this aspect because I figured I could make them at any point when it "became necessary" (like when I started running Turtles).

Using the armaments on the archer nerfed my dps a bit but made it so I didn't have to occupy much of my time with shield brother skills unless he was down in power or something specifically targeted him. In solo, this was a complete non-issue and will probably be my new MO.

Using the armaments on the herald doesn't seem to help as much even in solo, maybe because if you're at melee range, you simply take more damage than AoE? I couldn't say. It didn't seem to offer the same benefit tradeoff.

In fellowships, the armaments DO NOT stop the sudden death of heralds, even if they're being shield brother-ed. With crests, they seems to do slightly better, but it could be random. Not sure on that. Armaments give a herald about 1700 armor at this point? I'm not logged in and can't just look at it. No other stats are given. Shield brother give him more stats. In another thread someone mentioned that pets don't have basic att's like Might, they simply have Morale, etc.. I'm not an expert on that. But it does seem like with three layers of protection: crest, shield brother, and armaments, the pet still simply dies even when NOT fighting mobs in 6-man instances.

It could be the heals. Some of the instances clearly have mobs that target healers. The loremaster pets don't heal, so they wouldn't be targeted for any reason other than dps. Just a guess, but I did catch an orc walk right up to my passive herald and attack during a fight... from behind us. Could've been random though.

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Originally Posted by Robeauch

Some classes get a damage buff for a particular weapon -- for Captains, of course, that's the Halberd.

That passive bonus is distinct from any special buff inherent to the weapon type. (Example: Swords give a 1% parry buff, always.) The inherent bonus for halberds used to be a 2% threat buff. With Captains being a (mostly) non-tanking class, a lot of cappies went with a sword (after traiting the Man sword bonus). With only one class permitted to use halberds, and that class largely opting not to, halberds became an endangered species.

So, the halberd threat bonus was replaced -- it's now a 2% auto-attack crit buff. (Hover over your halberd to see it in the tool-tip.) This means you can get slightly more DPS with a halberd than with a 2H sword, *and* you don't have to use up a racial trait.

So I think for cappies, halberds are probably the 2H weapon of choice now.

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It is for me even for aesthetic reasons, but I noticed that if you want the right legacies for your playstyle, you should put your dwarf tools to good use and buy DIFFERENT weapons plus ONE halberd (possibly two if you're going to switch different spec's and legacies). The reason is that I purchased 3 halberds and they all pretty much had the same beginning legacies on them. Different weapons also seem to have different beginning skills on them. Maybe one or two changed here or there. If you're looking to save up all the legacies you want for your "après quest" LI, dwarf tools will help only if you barter for the different types of weapons because there are assumptions about which weapon is for "tank play" and which is for "dps play" and which is for "backup heals" play, etc...

For example, I doubt I'll find a halberd with any kind of Noble Mark buff on it, it seems always to be Telling Mark, which I will certainly use, but optimally I want a bank of both legacies or possibly two different weapons with different legacies. Thought I'd mention that because figuring out the LI system can take a while. :)

Thank you for explaining the threat aspect. I do remember something about threat a long time ago. The memory jogged. I do like to be able to control threat myself depending on my spec. I wouldn't want to be using yellow spec in a group with a guardian for example, and if my only LI was a halberd, and halberds caused even a 2% threat, that would be an irritation.

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Originally Posted by gripply

It is for me even for aesthetic reasons, but I noticed that if you want the right legacies for your playstyle, you should put your dwarf tools to good use and buy DIFFERENT weapons plus ONE halberd (possibly two if you're going to switch different spec's and legacies). The reason is that I purchased 3 halberds and they all pretty much had the same beginning legacies on them. Different weapons also seem to have different beginning skills on them. Maybe one or two changed here or there. If you're looking to save up all the legacies you want for your "après quest" LI, dwarf tools will help only if you barter for the different types of weapons...

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The legacies you get are random. Any LI starts with 3 Major legacies. There are 8 Major legacies in total for Captain Weapons. Therefore, the probability that 3 LIs look pretty much alike is quite big.

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Originally Posted by gripply

...because there are assumptions about which weapon is for "tank play" and which is for "dps play" and which is for "backup heals" play, etc...

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Swords have a bonus that gives 1% extra parry, Greatswords have a bonus that gives 2% extra parry. That makes swords good for tanking. Halberds have +2% auto attack critical chance, which makes them a tiny bit better for DPS.

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Originally Posted by gripply

For example, I doubt I'll find a halberd with any kind of Noble Mark buff on it, it seems always to be Telling Mark, which I will certainly use, but optimally I want a bank of both legacies or possibly two different weapons with different legacies. Thought I'd mention that because figuring out the LI system can take a while. :)

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That is because Noble Mark legacy cannot exist on a weapon. Noble Mark legacy can only be on your Emblem.
I suggest you take a look at the first post in this thread. Some of the last bits in the first post is an overview of all the Captain legacies:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ummary-Captain

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Originally Posted by Elrantiri

The legacies you get are random. Any LI starts with 3 Major legacies. There are 8 Major legacies in total for Captain Weapons. Therefore, the probability that 3 LIs look pretty much alike is quite big.



Swords have a bonus that gives 1% extra parry, Greatswords have a bonus that gives 2% extra parry. That makes swords good for tanking. Halberds have +2% auto attack critical chance, which makes them a tiny bit better for DPS.



That is because Noble Mark legacy cannot exist on a weapon. Noble Mark legacy can only be on your Emblem.
I suggest you take a look at the first post in this thread. Some of the last bits in the first post is an overview of all the Captain legacies:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ummary-Captain

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Thanks! That will keep me busy for a while.

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Originally Posted by gripply

In fellowships, the armaments DO NOT stop the sudden death of heralds, even if they're being shield brother-ed. With crests, they seems to do slightly better, but it could be random. Not sure on that. Armaments give a herald about 1700 armor at this point? I'm not logged in and can't just look at it. No other stats are given. Shield brother give him more stats. In another thread someone mentioned that pets don't have basic att's like Might, they simply have Morale, etc.. I'm not an expert on that. But it does seem like with three layers of protection: crest, shield brother, and armaments, the pet still simply dies even when NOT fighting mobs in 6-man instances.

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Eh, perhaps the herald stats could use another pass or two then?

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Eh, perhaps the herald stats could use another pass or two then?

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Lol no kidding. I guess you stopped following the class changes thread?

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Originally Posted by aardnebby

1. It is apparent that Heightened Allies is basically worthless. Let me break it down as to why (all figures are approximate):

A red line captain is capable of 2.5-4k sustained DPS. A herald of war (adding 2% to the captain) gains approximately 40 dps with 2 points in it, an archer double that but without the 2% bonus to the captain. 2 points saved and put into Dignified Spectacle boosts the captains personal DPS AND outgoing healing by 1% (25-40 dps) without the costs of a herald (Micromanaging targets, accidental aggro etc), as you can simply leave your herald of war in passive mode, maybe clicking it for a self heal occasionally or triggering it when you have time.

This confirms an earlier post in the beta forums I made where I pointed out the only way "hybrid" builds are going to be efficient is if a trait is so bad that two points in it are worth less than 1 point in an out of line trait. Personally I am not complaining, I still think that turning the captain into a pet class is an awful idea.

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Have anyone tested if Tactics stack in 12.2? The lack of tactic stacking in 12.1 is an issue I dislike very much.

EDIT: They don't seem to stack in 12.2.

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Originally Posted by aardnebby

Lol no kidding. I guess you stopped following the class changes thread?

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Or more accurately, sitting on the sidelines while I gathered components to rebuild my desktop so that I can play LotRO again.......