Hunter Update - Option #2

Option 2 is a much larger departure.

We move Hunstman to a utility line. This allows the inherent utility of blue to apply to both the Bowmaster and Trapper of Foe lines.

As with the other thread, any trait that is not mentioned is not, currently, slated to be altered.

Hunstman

No longer can be specialized.

0-5 Ranks
Nock on the Move
Induction based attacks can be used while moving.

Quick Shot Focus
5 Ranks
+4% Quick shot focus bonus/rank

Impact Arrows
2 Ranks
+2% Ranged Damage/rank

Scourging Blow
Grants the Skill: Scourging Blow

5-10 Ranks

Fire on the Run
Requires Nock on the Move
2 Ranks
Reduces the induction movement penalty bu 10%/rank

Press Onward
Grants the skill: Press Onward

Split Shot
Grants the Skill: Split Shot

Barrage
Grants the Skill: Barrage

11-15 Ranks
Perseverance

Rank 1: 10% Press Onward Heals
Ranks 2-4: +5% Press Onward Heals

Pathfinder
3 Ranks
+5% Boost to Find the Path Speed/rank

Improved Intent Concentration
-30s Intent Concentration Cooldown

Strong Arm, Sharp Eye
6 Ranks
Ranks 1-6: +2% Bow damage for bow skills that consume focus and +2% Melee damage/rank
Rank 6: Using a skill that costs Focus has a 15% chance to reduce the cost of all skills by 1 for 5s

16-20

Barbed Hindrance
5 Ranks
1-5: +6% Barbed Arrow Damage and +4% Hunter Bleed Damage per rank
Rank 5: Slows the target by 20% for 20s

Rain of Arrows
Grants the Skill: Rain of Arrows

Improved Blood Arrow
3 Ranks
Rank 1-2: +5% Max morale over time heal from Blood Arrow
Rank 3: -5s cooldown of Blood Arrow

21-25

Hunter's Voice
-10s Cooldown to Cry of the Hunter
+10% Movements Speed bonus

Fleet of Foot
(Combines Fleetness and Improved Fleetness)
On every harmful skill, an additional 20% chance to increase run speed by 10% and gain 1 focus

Volley
5 Ranks
Per Rank: Using a skill that costs focus has a 3% chance to remove the induction time of your next skill stacks up to 5 times and expires out-of-combat

Exsanguinate
(Requires 3 ranks in Improved Blood Arrow)
3 Ranks
Rank 1: Grants Skill: Exsanguinate
Rank 2: 66% chance to unlock Exsanguinate after Blood Arrow
Rank 3: 100% chance to unlock Exsanguinate after Blood Arrow

26-30

Strength of the Earth
2 Ranks
Rank 1: Grants the Skill: Strength of the Earth and increases ranged and melee damage by 10% for 5s
Rank 2: Increases ranged and melee damage by 20%

Shot Through the Heart
Heart Seeker and Merciful Shot do more damage to targets with active bleeds

Precision
2 Ranks
Tier 1: Stance: Precision now generates 1 Focus every 4s
Tier 2: Stance: Precision now generates 1 Focus every 3s

31-35
Earthborn
Strength of earth now restores morale and increases 1 focus/second while active.

Rapid
Grants the Skill: Rapid Fire
Bow skills that have a focus cost no longer have a cost
Duration 10s
Cooldown 180s

36+
Intensified Fire
Removes all inductions actions for the duration of Rapid Fire

Bowmaster
Grants the Skill: Pinning Shot
Grants: .8s Swift Bow induction reduction
-25% Attack Duration
+10 Max Range for all ranged skills

Draw Weight
5 Ranks
+3% induction bow damage and +3% induction bow critical damage multiplier/rank

Shoot to Kill
Set Bonus (10 Ranks)
+10 Ranged Damage
+2.5% Critical Magnitude

Deadly Precision
Requires 5 tiers in Critical Eye
2 Ranks
+5% Critical Damage to all Bow Skills/rank

Improved Rain of Arrows
2 Ranks
+1% Rain of Arrows Critical +5% Ran of Arrows Critical Multiplier

Haemorrhaging Shot
20 Rank Trait Set Bonus
+5% chance to Critical and On critical Hit; applies an additional moderate bleed to the target

Focused Precision
Requires 2 Ranks in Deadly Precision
On a critical hit: +2 Focus

Bodkin Arrows
Removed

Plant Feet
Every 1.5s you do not move you earn a rank of Hold Ground
Hold Ground has 5 ranks
Hold Ground grants +2% Evade, Damage, and Critical strike chance at each rank
When you move, all tiers of Hold Ground are dispelled
When you critically strike, reduce the rank of Hold Ground by 1

Trapper of Foes
Grants the Skill: Lingering Wound
Grants the Skill: Decoy
Traps can be used while moving and have no induction.

Rain of Thorns
5 Ranks
+10% Damage to Rain of Thorns per rank

Armour Rend
Requires Piercing Trap
4 Ranks
Penetrating Shot debuffs Target: -4% Physical Mitigation and .75% Parry, Evade, and Block Rating/rank
Piercing Trap debuffs Target: -2.5% mitigation bypass per rank

Harassing Shot
New Skill requries 20 Ranks in Trapper of Foes
Grants the Skill: Harassing Shot
Force taunts the target and forces the target to attack the hunter for 5s
Cooldown 15s

Survival Gear
Requires 25 Ranks in Trapper of Foes
6 Ranks - all remain the same

The One Trap
Now requires Piercing Trap otherwise unchanged

Emergency Preparations
Requires The One Trap
3 Ranks
Rank 1: After evading an attack you place a Set Trap in front of you
Rank 2: After evading an attack you place 3 Set Traps around you (Front, left and right)
Rank 3: Grants the Skill: Survival Preparation
Survival Preparation places a set trap in front of you, a Piercing Trap to your left, and a The One Trap to your right

Okay, with this setup, the movement utility of the Hunstman becomes available to either style of the remaining specialization lines.
Trapper of Foes picks up an ability where it can, with proper execution, keep a target locked down with a root for a longer period of time, and can benefit more from the melee bonuses now offered as part of the Huntsman utility. Bowmaster maintains its core strength as the ranged damage powerhouse it has always been, but can now move when it needs to get out of mechanics without seeing an overly detrimental hit to its rotation.

Let's discuss.

No taunts in non-tank lines, please.

And remove taunts from other non-tank lines too, like Knives Out.

On a quick glance, if it's to stop the plunder of Huntsman - maybe. So long as I'm not having stop moving, cures and all, with nought penalty. Can see why it was worded this way in Option 1 now.

Still seems like you want to hamper us to allow the puddles to effect us more rather than fix for melee types.

Option 3

Make Bowmaster the utility non spec line and have Huntsmen and Trappers form the core of the two builds? Then we plunder red like we are doing now already.

Too many tears and the stunned shock from the sheep I'd hazard a guess :) Perhaps too OP!

Yes, I vote for Option 2 definitely.

Regarding a force taunt for hunter. That would require some additional survivability. How about instead force the target to attack the target with the most threat? Or change Beneath Notice to a targeted skill offering the aggro drop and power regen to fellowship members?

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Originally Posted by Snowlock

How about instead force the target to attack the target with the most threat?

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Doesn't that happen by default unless some forced-target taunt without a threat match is in effect?

This looks more promising.
Option 1 left Huntsman in a worse spot so its preferable to just make it a support line to buff the other Specs and focus on 2 proper roles for Hunter instead of a third DPS melee + run&gun role?
that has to perform worse than Bowmaster so we don't have a repeat of 115 Abyss.

I saw no mention of Distracting Shot changes in Trapper section, atm its a 3min cooldown 10sec daze with a trait to get it down to 2min and a tracery for 12-16.5sec cooldown reduction.
For such a long cooldown it's fine in Bowmaster as a quick "oh ####" CC but for a CC spec line that's not reliable enough to keep down mobs that you don't want getting hits/inductions off, worse yet if you require 2 mobs CC'd.
Good luck if the mob can Adapt, Dazing Blow will just break the daze from Distracting Shot so at best you get 15secs from going Dazing > Distracting(if that even works) and Bards Arrow will also break the fear if you could hypothetically get its CD below 15secs.

Even with the changes to Trapper the spec would still just be a debuffer class that can keep a Orc Warrior/sapper or 2 out of the group but can't CC a Frostcaller/Blackarrow for longer than 20-25 secs, Trapper needs more than just a dozen ways to root/snare a mob.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Harassing Shot
New Skill requries 20 Ranks in Trapper of Foes
Grants the Skill: Harassing Shot
Force taunts the target and forces the target to attack the hunter for 5s
Cooldown 15s

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Seeing the Hunter discord thread have a meltdown over this was most entertaining, I see no issues with a way for the Hunter to get a specific mob off the tank and into a trap since heaven forbid you use this spec in a 3/6man with 1 tank.....

Please, use your common sense and leave red line just as it is. It's strong enough already, spend your resources and focus on blue and yellow which have been irrelevant for years now.

As someone that usually runs hunters in blue line I actually prefer the elimination of blue. That way we can have the benefits of specializing in red - and they are many - and more easily add the conveniences of blue and things like barrage for those of us that dislike inductions. Granted we can do exactly the same thing now but eliminating blue as a specialization lets us do it sooner in life and to a larger extent.

Pacata blue is only irrelevant now if the game consists of nothing but raids and higher tier group instances. This just in - that is very far indeed from being all or even most of LOTRO.

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Originally Posted by Snowlock

Yes, I vote for Option 2 definitely.

Regarding a force taunt for hunter. That would require some additional survivability. How about instead force the target to attack the target with the most threat? Or change Beneath Notice to a targeted skill offering the aggro drop and power regen to fellowship members?

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The point of that would be to move a target to a location where you want it. You could directly pull the target into a trap and hold it at that new location, nearly indefinitely.

As much as I like Option 2, I think having a force taunt in a dps line is a bad idea. All I see this doing is letting a hunter move a boss on a whim and screw up positional for everyone else, or cause frontals to the party the tank was already handling. Worst case scenario is some odd combination that lets fights be exploited.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

The point of that would be to move a target to a location where you want it. You could directly pull the target into a trap and hold it at that new location, nearly indefinitely.

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Only melee though, and only those not pre-immune. Pre immune or casters are a significant portion of our instance mobs and instances would be the only place this would be effective.

Unless of course you were going to make it work against monster players and then I'm 1000000000000% in favor of this..

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

The point of that would be to move a target to a location where you want it. You could directly pull the target into a trap and hold it at that new location, nearly indefinitely.

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Or any tank can do it

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Originally Posted by Elmagor

Or any tank can do it

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The point of this taunt is to grab a single mob out of a group of mobs, obviously a tank can just drag a mob into a trap if they're only tanking 1 mob but at that point the trap root + taunt are both redundant.

When you have several or more mobs it becomes almost impossible to trap certain mobs as any one of them can set it off wasting it.

If we're talking from the stand point of class trait line identity, then option 2 here is the better choice. Blues identity was basically "can move" which doesn't hold up super well, even if practically yellow was the worse line.

Option 2 will also make red hunter a stronger class in this current state of the game.
It's questionable how this will fix yellow though; not really a great departure in traits or playstyle that I can read here for yellow hunter. So it's hard to judge until actual playable builds come out with updated numbers. Adjusted potencies and cooldowns etc.

As far as the taunt in yellow, it sounds fine on paper, fine concept, but I do share everyone else's hesitancy because a worrying number of players don't know what their skills do, and I've been in too many pug runs that were wiped by a red guard thinking engage is part of their dps rotation, or a beorning not understanding they trained a taunt.

One of the reasons why I don't go red/yellow is because the abilities in blueline are too attractive. So in that sense, this would make it much easier to grab the things that fit my playstyle such as Press Onward and Pathfinder. Perhaps the biggest hurdle is Blood Arrow. Not only does it remove three corruptions, but it heals you as well. Then you have Exsanguinate on top of that. That thing helps me so much in so many avenues.

I'm not sure if it is a good idea to split the bonuses when it come to Rain of Arrows. Seems a bit odd to throw the skill in the passive tree and then have the bonuses in the red tree.

I don't mind the idea of Harassing Shot. I use Threatening Shout for my red captain way more than people might expect. It helps a lot to pull off stragglers and drag them back to the tank or around the field if necessary. So giving a hunter this ability from their point-of-view is rather interesting. It can also help to pull a specific target away from the tank and lure them into an ambush. Honestly, I would rather see this ability require less trait points.

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Originally Posted by Antophant

The point of this taunt is to grab a single mob out of a group of mobs, obviously a tank can just drag a mob into a trap if they're only tanking 1 mob but at that point the trap root + taunt are both redundant.

When you have several or more mobs it becomes almost impossible to trap certain mobs as any one of them can set it off wasting it.

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I agree with that way, but in that suituation such trait must be more early in tree. Why waste 20 trait points for trait what usually give you zero advantage and used in instance once for a year?

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Originally Posted by zipfile

No taunts in non-tank lines, please.

And remove taunts from other non-tank lines too, like Knives Out.

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Disagree with this.

Knives Out is a truly awesome skill. A (albeit not ideal) 3-man group I play with (blue Warden, blue Captain, red Burglar) has used it countless times for all sorts of stunts with a much smaller than traditional group. We did Dark Delvings challenge mode just the three of us at level 60, I know it's not that hard nowadays, but back then it was pretty difficult because blue Warden (myself) wasn't a great tank (survivability-wise), and the blue Cappy healing wasn't great. This was pre-u35.

The bottom line is, please Orion do not remove taunts from non-tank lines, they are a great niche utility that is really handy in some situations, especially in smaller groups that are at least somewhat coordinated.

Harassing Shot is a new skill anyway. If you don't like it, then don't trait for it.

With Knives Out, I don't know if this is still true, but if you don't want the taunt to take effect but still want the damage reduction, then just face the other way when you use it. I'm not sure if that still works though.

I prefer option #1 because I think the direction of The Huntsman there has potential to be a fun and more unique playstyle that isn't really offered in Lotro currently if it was pulled off well. That said I have a feeling more people are going to prefer option #2.

My vote is Option #2.

Firstly, I'm a little surprised this is the second option, as I (and I'm sure many others) expected you to make Yellow a non-spec utility tree, change a few other things, and call it a day. That would've been the simplest approach, given that Red is widely used, Blue is sometimes used (for landscape and deeding), and Yellow is only really used to swap to before a fight (if ever). When I saw you weren't going this route, I was a little apprehensive, but I actually think your proposal (if well-executed) is the better of all available options (i.e. Option #1 being keeping the status quo, with tweaks; Option #2 being this; and Option #3 being making Yellow a utility line instead). After all, Blue is the actual line with much of the utility (heals, extra run speed, etc.), while Yellow doesn't have a lot of that (barring perhaps those early mits).

When it comes to trait lines, I think the ones that really work are those that present an entirely different role. Otherwise, those that share a role will always have the problem of one being the meta and the other being ignored. Captain, for example, is viable in all lines, because each of them presents a very different role (healer, dps, tank). Hunter is one of those unique classes where all multiple lines are damage lines. Blue and Red do present different gameplay styles, but there's only really one king spec, and that's Red (by far). Making Blue a passive spec, where everyone can dip into it for that extra moveability and utility, is a good move. It also hugely addresses the issue where raid Hunters choose to stay in puddles so as not to lose out on their dps (which makes the healers' job harder). Now they will have no excuse and won't be overly penalised for moving.

Now onto Yellow. To make Yellow truly viable, it needs to become a true CC line, and rival LM and Burglar (at least in 3-person and 6-person content). The danger here is that if it is too weak, Yellow continues to never be played (and Hunters will only have one viable line), or, if it becomes too strong, groups will take a Yellow Hunter over a Yellow LM or Burglar. More CC, debuffs, heals, and support are needed to make Yellow truly viable.

My proposals:

1.

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Harassing Shot
New Skill requries 20 Ranks in Trapper of Foes
Grants the Skill: Harassing Shot
Force taunts the target and forces the target to attack the hunter for 5s
Cooldown 15s

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I don't really see any value in a Hunter having a direct taunt skill. Barring edge-case scenarios, this is just going to be ignored, as it will likely mean the death of the Hunter. Instead, I propose granting a longer Decoy, or maybe even a special Decoy for this, almost like a cross between Rune-keeper's Stones and LM Pets, with this taunt skill. It is much more valuable to taunt a boss or add to a Decoy than to the Hunter. It also plays into the Trapper style a lot more.

2.

Trapper needs a heal skill to give it more group support. LM and Burglar have this, so to make Yellow truly viable, this is my idea:

Healing Decoy.

You plant a healing decoy (carrying signs with inspiring messages, perhaps?) and anyone within its radius receives a Heal over Time. It can also generate threat initially, but with higher ranks drops this threat and then reduces threat for those within its radius.

3.

Trapper could benefit from a group power restore for additional utility. My idea:

Power Decoy

You plant a decoy that gives enhanced ICPR (to make it differ a little from other classes' direct power restores) within a small radius. Additional ranks reduce power costs by 10%, and max rank gives a 10s immunity to power drains. This would make it very useful in certain content where power drains apply.

4.

Make Tripwire grant a Debuff on mobs, reducing their Outgoing Damage by 15%.

I'll have other feedback on other aspects of this, but just wanted to get in those early thoughts.

-Bel

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

The point of that would be to move a target to a location where you want it. You could directly pull the target into a trap and hold it at that new location, nearly indefinitely.

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This actually sounds very, very useful for dragging mobs into traps. That said, I think I'd still prefer it on a Decoy than as a direct arrow skill, just for the added flavour of that (plus not having to worry about dying to the mob).

-Bel

Making Blue the utility line was my suggested change some time ago so I definitely vote for this. I still prefer Red to be mostly immobile to keep the sniper feel, while leaving Yellow as the tricky skirmisher. But this is already a very promising start.

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Originally Posted by istvana

As someone that usually runs hunters in blue line I actually prefer the elimination of blue. That way we can have the benefits of specializing in red - and they are many - and more easily add the conveniences of blue and things like barrage for those of us that dislike inductions. Granted we can do exactly the same thing now but eliminating blue as a specialization lets us do it sooner in life and to a larger extent.

Pacata blue is only irrelevant now if the game consists of nothing but raids and higher tier group instances. This just in - that is very far indeed from being all or even most of LOTRO.

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Mobility is key for me. So, if that is early (line 1) of blue tree combining red and blue might be the better option if focus skills stay as on blue and regeneration will not be handicapped further.

Rather than a trapper line, I'd rather see this become a general support line. I was watching Fellowship of the Ring and thinking about how Strider protected the fellowship. It wasn't all about violence, but a lot of stealth and warding, so skills like that could be interesting...

• Beneath Notice being a targeted skill that reduces aggro and adds power to a target
• Press Onward applies bonus to fellowship wide.
• Cry of the Hunter applies bonus to fellowship wide, and also temporarily increases hope
• Bright Campfire placeable in combat and providing a short radius of stun immunity around it.
• Stances providing bonuses to the fellowship like Precision giving crit , strength mastery and endurance icpr (stackable)
• Direct flight - fellowship wide sprint with slow immunity
• Camo - targetable in combat camo, does not drop combat. Increases ICMR and ICPR while in stealth. Stealth broken on damage or when skills are used.
• Explosive Arrow changed to Weighted Arrow - causes a knockdown and FM.
• Decoy is a mezz like blinding flash when target enters radius
• Strength of the earth is an incombat rez
• Piercing Trap and One Trap also disarm
• Lingering Wound becomes a permanent mark that reduces target armor.

Can we get those crafted triple traps back? So much fun laying sideways in a passage and the reinforcement go doink, doink, doink as we tear down the boss :)

Nar too much like fun.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

We move Hunstman to a utility line. This allows the inherent utility of blue to apply to both the Bowmaster and Trapper of Foe lines.

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https://media1.tenor.com/images/b8c1...temid=12449331

This is honestly great.

The hunter has 2 competing dps lines.
- Mobility as a traitline perk is not cool. People will always pick whats "Meta". Even RK is struggling with identity crysis between red and yellow, hunter will not be that loved and will stick to whatever group finds the higher dps at the end.
- Blue is far better as a passive line. Induction suck, standing still sucks, old fleetness was amazing. Why not give red hunters another line to dip into and allows them a cooldown to do that?
- A "Survival dps" line doesn't really work. It's basically a "Not good enough" line and will forever be behind. The current blue has that. You are going to struggle greatly to balance them without making one gross when content it favours dominates the meta from that point on.

You can not expect players to swap lines freely when LIs are so restrictive. Making the 2 compete doesn't really happen. So players may build blue line on live because it's better solo survival, then suddenly hit a brick wall end-game when they're told to switch to even be viable.

I'm not a fan of even entertaining blue as a line currently. Sorry.

Blue line should focus on Focus generation, Bleeds, Reducing induction
- Survival should really be on yellow more. That way R/y is a more viable option than just thinking about it as loweing your dps in R/b
- Both yellow and red like bleeds. However, yellow likes it more thanks to "Sustained" damage being nicer on CC/Debuff classes as taking your eyes off the prize to deal with something else is less damaging.
- Yellow still has inductions in it's "normal" dps rotation and a high focus cost to keep things up. If it wants real damage, it can go red, but it should be able to afford utility of blue to make it manageable.

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0-5 Ranks
Nock on the Move
Induction based attacks can be used while moving.

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I'm more a fan of fleetness becoming a skill again. Honestly, this should be further down too as a capstone of the line. Otherwise your just making all hunters lose induct on move as it's priceless.

A cooldown say 45s with 20s duration. Where you induct on move.

The gameplay of hunters "gotta get the right position" is contradicting to many instances, but the cooldown will give them best of both worlds and a skill ceiling to optimise it.

I don't want hunters to become kiting gods, they already are thanks to the CC they have and run speed buffs. They don't need permanent induct on move.

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Scourging Blow
Grants the Skill: Scourging Blow

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I'm not really sure this skill has a place. In red going into melee would be awkward. In yellow, you want to keep that bleed system going.

This skill could do somthing else than it's live purpose, but it's not wanted as is.

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Split Shot
Grants the Skill: Split Shot

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Split shot is pretty wild on live. It's giving back more focus than it costs. It's making Hunters prime nukers and ranged AoE'ers. This skill could absolutely get nerfed and still be perfectly viable.

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Improved Intent Concentration
-30s Intent Concentration Cooldown

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This skill is completely pointless with it's animation. If this is going to stay, can it be instant and give focus every 1s over the next 10s or somthing?

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Rain of Arrows
Grants the Skill: Rain of Arrows

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Similar to nerfing split shot, I like this subtle sorting out of Rain of Arrows to not dominate range AoE and range nuking.

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Fleet of Foot
(Combines Fleetness and Improved Fleetness)
On every harmful skill, an additional 20% chance to increase run speed by 10% and gain 1 focus

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Not a fan of this as mentioned before. Fleetness as a skill like old was better.

Random run speeds hunter has it making it a kiting god. in PvP it will be strong. It will make all PvE even more snooze fest. And it feels super steppy on toes of other mobile ranges dps (minstrel, RK) who's stick is attacking on move while not having this kind of buff.

Standing still should be seen as a punishment for hunters, but an easy mechanic they can play around with (as they have done for 16 years!).

Lore-master, Healers, are getting awkwardly thrown under the bus if hunters are also in that melee group of people who can easy avoid puddles because they zoom around the map because reasons.

The generic balance between ranged/melee should be melee are mobile and can deal with puddles on demand. Ranged however might get stuck for a moment. with puddle heavy game, you don't want to buff hunters even more in this table.

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Precision
2 Ranks
Tier 1: Stance: Precision now generates 1 Focus every 4s
Tier 2: Stance: Precision now generates 1 Focus every 3s

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Your treating stances like line=stance. Which shouldn't be the case. Please remove them from LIs too.

If you want to add in a really easy skill ceiling. Let hunters sudo stance (maybe increase cooldown to like 30s) dance there stances. The buffs they apply actually be useful. and reduce the difference between them.

Currently they could be removed for all I care because gameplay they don't mean anything. Set and forget, even the game keeps it on for you.

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Bodkin Arrows
Removed

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Time for some hate.

I don't mind hunter (and champ) have built in mitigation penetration. They're just too strong.

It makes them scale better is a group to more define there main purpose, damage.

Thats not to say they should be stacked like the are, and thats not to say it should be ungodly numbers. But if this went down to 0.5-2.5 it would feel small enough it's not that insane compared to now.

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Plant Feet
Every 1.5s you do not move you earn a rank of Hold Ground
Hold Ground has 5 ranks
Hold Ground grants +2% Evade, Damage, and Critical strike chance at each rank
When you move, all tiers of Hold Ground are dispelled
When you critically strike, reduce the rank of Hold Ground by 1

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Anything that tells you not to move completely is bad in my opinion.

I know this contradicts whats before but it's all in staging.

Inductions and *Forced* standing still *Forces* the player to work around it. It's an obvious downside to being ranged that melee can be more mobile.

The hunter can learn to work around this. Using focus spenders or non induction skills to move in windows of opportunity. There is no issue in this. Hunters have been doing it well for 16 years now.

However, when you now say "Standing still is optimal dps" now it curves. The whole party must work around the hunter to make sure they don't move. Puddle placement away. Whenever you move (which is fun) it suddenly feels bad becuase you lost your buff.

This again contradicts more conventional hotspots. However they are normally free to jump in and out, it's not a straight punishment. Brawlers get out of there tiny square to get back into it.

Plant feet should be a medium cooldown with a small hotspot for a short while like brawler. Not an always on, just bonus for knowing when your allowed to stand still.

Heck, even go crazy and let hunters hotspot buff other ranged dps (tactical+ranged) and don't let them stack so only 1 hunter is wanted :cool:

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Trapper of Foes
Grants the Skill: Lingering Wound
Grants the Skill: Decoy
Traps can be used while moving and have no induction.

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We need to talk about these 2 skills given the new concept.

Lingering Wound is focus heavy as is in yellow. You don't generate much to keep stacking the bleed up. With blue as passive it may make it easier, but, you've also got barrage there costing a lot. This will make focus management on yellow hunter an absolute nightmare, when it should be a nightmare for the dps version, this should be about stacking bleeds and debuffs. Focus should be easier, especially a super rotational mechanical skill to cashout when ready like lingering.

Decoy is bad for the reasons you don't really expect
- It's cool decoy grabs aggro from adds
- It's not cool it's inconsistant in how it applies it's debuff (because you have to pray the target stays next to the decoy when it explodes)
- It's not cool the decoy stuns targets near by and does damage, the main purpose of the decoy end-game is to move targets away and stun em, the decoy they ruins that

Decoy should be able to combo with explosive arrow to make the debuff + stun consistent. Allow explosive arrow to trigger the explosion, causing the damage and stun. If they don't use explosion, the decoy should just vanish without anything.

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Rain of Thorns
5 Ranks
+10% Damage to Rain of Thorns per rank

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Whyyyyyyyy

This skill is not for it's dps, it's for it's root, which is 90% useless.

This skill should apply traps inc damage debuff. That way the hunter has a way to AoE the +IncDamage debuff easier to large groups.

Honestly, the AoE root is actually not cool (and same with trap). I actually trapped some adds next to a healer once and the healer died because of it. If this skills even remotely useful with damage or debuff, the root is more of a hindrance than a bonus. I would rather a short 5s 75% slow.

Quote:

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Armour Rend
Requires Piercing Trap
4 Ranks
Penetrating Shot debuffs Target: -4% Physical Mitigation and .75% Parry, Evade, and Block Rating/rank
Piercing Trap debuffs Target: -2.5% mitigation bypass per rank

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Absolutely broken. You've just moved bodkins to yellow hunter but made it for group. Hunter will now reduce targets mits by 14%? ot 18% physical and 14% tactical?

If Armor Rend is just 1/2/3/4% more than Penetrating Shots original you're cooking with a cool trait. But this is massive on a dodgy skill.

Quote:

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Harassing Shot
New Skill requries 20 Ranks in Trapper of Foes
Grants the Skill: Harassing Shot
Force taunts the target and forces the target to attack the hunter for 5s
Cooldown 15s

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... why...

Quote:

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Survival Gear
Requires 25 Ranks in Trapper of Foes
6 Ranks - all remain the same

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Very cool with this. (and can you push this to lore-master thread?)

It's insane how easily hunter gets mits from this trait so easily.

Debuffers should be tankier naturally (and why I'm pushing this to LM thread) but it should be tough to get. This means R/y can be the tanky dps suppy guy... Likely useful for PvP/Delving/Solo/3man if needed as flavour, but not really impacting the meta.

Quote:

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The One Trap
Now requires Piercing Trap otherwise unchanged

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This is a really bad change, but lets just list out traps

Default trap is mostly useless in red's group content but has usage solo to cheese fights further.
Triple trap: OK Damage. Same as above but added +IncDamage debuff that is awkward: Not garenteed to hit your target, potentially not 100% up time, targets can evade them by moving while placed with lag, the root can actually be a negative (as detailed above) in groups.
Tripwire is a unique knockdown/knockout which stacks with other CC. Easily got by red. Again used in solo to cheese fights. Long enough cooldown not abused. Trap again not always your target.
Piecing: A weak dot, with a terrible HealOnHit debuff. Basically pointless slow.
OneTrap: A mid dot with a basically pointless slow.

Why limit the slightly better dot by the bad dot? They're the same and both bad.

This is without going into Hunters complete bloat of CC which needs to be addressed.
- Why does Hunters Cry even do CC? It's the Anti-Stun, leave it as just that and nothing else. And then a terrible bubble on top, and last it puts a run speed buff for reasons?
- Bards Arrow is good CC without line limit, if you want yellow as CC, red basically has it here.
- Dazing blow stuns, for some reason? Is a default skill.
- Distracting Shot, the perma stun skill similar to Burglar and LM, doesn't last long enough to perma stun... WHY IS IT 3MINUTES DEFAULT!
- Pinning Shot - WHY IS THIS A THING! Does the hunter not root enough!!! WHY IS IT IN RED!!!
- Low Cut root - AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!1!!11!!!

And thats the hard CC's... Slows are even stupider. And then you have to remember hunter has traps it can craft and use.

It's an absolute mess. And it's all pointless. It's all worse than burglars riddle and AoE twist in actual content.

Can you please review this? before terrible suggestions like this...

Quote:

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Emergency Preparations
Requires The One Trap
3 Ranks
Rank 1: After evading an attack you place a Set Trap in front of you
Rank 2: After evading an attack you place 3 Set Traps around you (Front, left and right)
Rank 3: Grants the Skill: Survival Preparation
Survival Preparation places a set trap in front of you, a Piercing Trap to your left, and a The One Trap to your right

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This is so bad.

It's all the issues above with even more awkward stuff added on.

Stop. Keep it simple, please. It's a bad line, stop trying to make it "cool" and make it useful.


Suggestions:

You have to nerf the CC down and make it more focused.
- All Traps (Trap, Crafted Trap, Triple Trap, Rain of Thorns) no longer root and instead -75% run speed for 2s.
- RainOfThorns is also applies trap debuffs
- Dazing Blow reduced cooldown to 15s default, no longer stuns, trait in yellow reduce it to 2/4/6/8s. (Corruption removal utility)
- Remove CC, Run speed, Animation, and Bubble from Hunters Cry.
- Tripwire applies a short 10s -10% damage -10% crit chance debuff. 1min cooldown.
- Bards Arrow is now unlocked early in the yellow line and applies knockdown & Knockout at 1min cooldown
- Pinning Shot is now a yellow exclusive set bonus replacing 'Heightened Senses' which reduces the targets damage by 10% (30s, 12s cooldown)
- Piecing Trap is persistent for 4seconds on activation dealing damage to all targets who stand on it (similar to explosive arrow puddle). Deals damage each second and applies dot. 1min cooldown. Each hit applies 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1% mitigation reduction for 30s with trait Armor Rend)
- The dot Piecing Trap applies is stacks of Lingering Wound and can be cashed out.
- Distracting Shot is now default 30s cooldown, tracery reduces this to 15s
- Low cut root removed
- Decoy no longer explodes by itself
- The OneTrap applies Trap, Piercing, and Tripwire in one place 3m cooldown.
- Explosive Arrow combos with traps:
- - Decoy, explodes the decoy, applying crit debuff and stun.
- - If Explosive Arrow is used on an un-activated trap (Trap, Piercing, Tripwire) it will preps the trap and piercing damage to be fire damage and buffed.

Replace Emergency Preparations with basically anything simple. CC hunter is so bloating even with these nerfs and changes, the new huntsment idea makes them a kiting god regardless. With any traps or stuns traited you can still CC fine.

Quote:

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Trapper of Foes picks up an ability where it can, with proper execution, keep a target locked down with a root for a longer period of time

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Who struggles with that?

I am strictly a solo player. And I have played strictly the fire-while-you-move line since it was first introduced.

So with that in mind, here are my thoughts on these two options.

My blue line seems to be fine. If we want to add more cool things to it, I am fine with that. Otherwise, not sure I need any changes.

But I understand many others have different play styles and needs for raids perhaps, so I understand some are interested in changes.

But if I were to take a stab at changes here is what I would focus on.

Two options:

Option 1) Turn Yellow into an extra trait area for the other two lines. Where Blue is moving while firing and Red is stationary with extra damage and range. Give Traps to everyone that way.

Option 2) Combine Red into Blue. Give Yellow Blues ability to fire while moving. Both lines can fire while moving. Yellow is focused on Traps (with a lot of improvements) and longer range while the other (Purple?) is heavy in Damage.

Hunter should be the easiest ranged class to play. That means very few skills should depend on other skills to work or perform better unless they are passively done.

Some skills I just don't find a use for or seldom use: Moving Target, Rapid Fire, Intensified Fire, Strength of the Earth, Press Onward, Quick Shot, Earthborn.

The one thing I really miss is the ability to purge poison while moving.

0-5 Ranks
Nock on the Move
Induction based attacks can be used while moving.

As someone who’s played a blue hunter since the trait trees were introduced forever ago, I think option 2 is the way to go. Red becomes the dps build and yellow becomes the cc build. I like adding split shot to yellow, gives them more aoe damage too along with explosive arrow.
But, the cool thing that blue had going for it was the no focus lost on movement, and now only high level yellows can do that. It’d be great to see that as a traitable option in the blue tree. Even if it wasn’t optimized, I loved playing the strike on the move mobile hunter. Never staying still in combat. You get a little bit of that with red if you take some blue traits, but it looks like you sacrifice too much. Red still wants you to stay still.
Overall, it looks like yellow got the best end of this deal, but they need it. So no complaints.

Please leave the blue line alone. Despite the comments of some others here, not all players care about the "meta" (in fact, I suspect, as in most games, the players who actually do care are a vocal but tiny minority). As a solo player, the current blue line suits my preferred play style perfectly. Despite the supposed "weakness" of the class, I have played the entire epic story, and all the side quests, dailies, skirmishes, etc, that I want - all as a blue line hunter, without any problems. I don't raid, so I couldn't care less about the opinions on the raid viability of the line.

i echo what someone else mentioned: is it intended that Rain of arrows (in blue) and Improved ran of arrows (in red) are in 2 different trait lines? it seems really strange... especially considering that on live, Improved Rain of Arrows requires the basic Rain of Arrows trait.

would Strong Arm Sharp Eye still replace Strong Draw? on this option, SASE has reduced damage buffs compared to the other option. (I currently take both Strong Draw and Draw Weight in my build)

i'd hate to lose Bodkin Arrows, but it seems you're shifting some of the trait's damage to Impact Arrows and haemorrhaging shot (which has more synergy with bleed traits and traceries)

Plant feet: so, will there be 5 max stats of the buff. or 5 ranks to train the full trait, or both? the description is a not clear. due to the word rank having a double meaning: rank of buff, rank of trait.
EDIT3: i just realized you had another description of this trait in Option 1: Did you mean

Quote:

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Plant Feet

Becomes:

Every 1.5s you do not move you gain a tier of Hold Groung to a max of 5 tiers
Hold Ground effects are removed if you move, are out of combat for 9s
Hold Ground removes a tier on each critical strike
Hold Ground: +2% Evade, Damage, and critical chance per tier

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Harrassing Shot looks good, but i selfishly want it lower in the tree for 3-man content , because it's interaction with beneath notice is akin to champions with their ability to taunt and reduce threat. it's great for DPS classes to be able to separate a single foe from the tank, or to lose threat to the tank. it could also open up some mechanics options for small group instanced content, or allow for different group makeups for dual-tank encounters, allowing a main solo tank, with enough others being able to redirect the debuffs directed at the tank.

EDIT: i also generally won't take damage buffs to Crowd Control skills, such as Rain of Thorns or Champion's Horn of Gondor... it seems like a waste of trait points.
EDIT 2: it would also be nice to add a trait high up blue, or another skill or buff, to stop removing focus from movement, or move the yellow trait down lower in the tree for those who like the skirmisher playstyle....

if i understand correctly, making blue a utility line reduces the costs of blue traits from 2 trait points to 1 per rank? (sorry, i don't play any of the classes that have previously reduced a trait line to utility status)

if blue becomes utility line, this would be a good time to remove some of the double-up of traits: blue line and red line both have traits that reduce / remove inductions; reduce focus cost / generate focus. and then add more melee skills (need to buy with trait points) in their place. (examples would be single target multi hit, like Champion's ferocious strike, or shing-shing like AoE with only one strike per target from main hand and one strike from offhand, or melee kick knockdown, or melee bleed, or riposte to reflect damage of a single attack)

speaking of doubling up on traits: there is a bleed damage-boost trait in both blue and yellow.

i think i'm still leaning toward this option due to all the doubling up between red and blue.

If blue skills are more easily obtained, such as in the warden revamp where the yellow line is 1 point per in even off-spec, I would prefer this option over the first proposed.

Reason being, the blue line is not going to be competitive damage with the red line damage even after what's proposed in Option 1.

If we're going to open it up as a mobility and self-buff tree for the other specs, really open it up imo.

Blue line hunter is the way most players interact with the game for the vast majority of solo play while leveling up, and that's because you get to move across landscape and it just feels better to play. Opening that up in a meaningful way to all hunter builds and buffing the yellow line makes sense to me - I certainly wouldn't mind it as a hunter main.

Honestly, I tried the yellow line for a few hours around lvl 50 and hated it. But if it's getting buffed and mobile through cheap off-spec nodes in blue line, and there's still a red line for straight up bow skills... I think I would enjoy playing both red and yellow line. I don't super love the melee aspect of hunter, or the turret aspect of it. It's not very much in line with the legolas-like character fantasy either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushybrow

Reason being, the blue line is not going to be competitive damage with the red line damage even after what's proposed in Option 1.

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The aim of Option 1 is to have it compete with red for damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joedangod

The aim of Option 1 is to have it compete with red for damage.

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Then it becomes damage vs slightly less damage but can move for identity of the lines. Which sucks. Bringing yellow into prominence feels better for the class than blue.
Then it becomes damage vs CC, and both can move.

I'm biased, because I play almost solely yellow, sometimes red.

How I view this is that there is more utility possibilities for yellow, but also red. So very much welcomed.

To me, it seems that the high mobility playstyle from original blue still remains, but will maybe see some skills changed. But what does blue line really bring to the board today?, except the 'enjoyable' mobility for solo play? Some pvp maybe. That still looks accessible to me.



Can we just forget this 3 points needed for extra out of combat run speed boost?


Yes, overall, I think this is a more feasible way than option 1.

What i would love to see is to either be mobile, or stationary, that there are two distinct pathways to follow. Maybe a return of the old hunter skill, agile rejoinder. Or trap response skills.

As a prime supporter in of the removal of the Yellow spec in the Guardian thread, here, I'm not very convinced that this is the right option. Let's compare the two cases.

Guardian:

The current proposal of changes ensures the continued use of the currently live Yellow spec, but with an upside that you can spec into Red or Blue, and get the traits from both lines. Nothing, again, nothing will I miss if I want to play as a Yellow Guard, because I can just get everything I used to (with the change on Take to Heart, but that is an upside for me).

Guardians needed a buff in group play, and the Yellow-line debuff support provided the needed compensation for that the Red line damage lacks behind the Champion, and the Blue line tank lacks behind the Captain.

Yellow spec on it's own was useless in most cases, I mostly used to solo 3-6 men landscape stuff and I haven't got a decent 1h+shield on me, so I could use my 2h, and gain the survivability buffs there. The other option would be to go blue, I would easily (I would say more easily actually) solo the same stuff (with a shield).

In group play, Yellow was mostly useless, it was mainly used as a 3-men instance "waltz trough quickly" trait line.

All niche use cases of the Yellow line would continue on, and those who cry about the "loss" of it would not cry after they try the class after the next update.

Hunter:

The current proposal would not ensure the continued use of the present time Blue spec "meta" identity, which is run-and-gun, shoot on the go, AND not losing focus while moving. I'm very much against any changes on this class that would cripple any present uses of the class. There are two options you can do if you remove Blue spec:

1. Give a trait in blue for the focus loss on movement removal. This means that the current Blue line users (like me) would be Red line users, with heavy emphasis on Blue traits. Current meta is Blue spec->Red traits for solo anyways so what's my problem?
My problem is, that contrary to Guardians, Hunters do not need this kind of huge buff. This would mean that the Red "stationary sniper" would become run-and-gun sniper. A machine gun sniper. A machine gun sniper on a motorcycle. You know what I mean? Red has it's downside for that insane damage that is requires you to stay put. Yes, it is needed in group, but most of the time, you want to go waltz-Blue for landscape. (At least if you are not a boring player; or someone with a potato PC, that can't handle the run-and-gun, I heard it recently from someone. The same is true for Red-Yellow RK, but that is much more interesting and I can have reasons to go group Yellow and solo Red sometimes.)
This option would make Red Hunter the most insane, longest range, fastest running nuker class, that noone would want to play anything else. And judging by it's current popularity already, good like finding tanks and healers for your 4 Red Hunters...

2. Use your current proposal. This means that the only way to eliminate focus loss on movement is that you spec in Yellow, and dip into Blue. This would mean that Red line would be not 100 times better than any other class spec, but just 80 times... Other than that, if I want to use run-and-gun, my offensive abilities would be crippled, because I would have to spend traits on traps that I never wanted, and lose DPS because if I want to dip into Red line, it would be very expensive.
Or yes, I can do spec into Yellow, and not purchase a single trait, just buy Blue then Red. Would be cool right? Definitely no.
This option would indeed kill Blue line as it is. Compared to Guardian, where Yellow lives on almost 100% fully, this change would kill the Blue spec. And for Guardians Yellow spec was like 20-30% solo player's style. Blue Hunter is like 50-70% of solo players' style. This would cripple the Hunter player base.

Summary:

For me, keeping alive Blue spec (the other thread) is the way to go. I'm really surprised that I'm saying this, because I was a huge supporter of the Yellow spec removal on Guardians.
But Orion's proposed changes on Blue line got me excited, and I would really, really like to see that majestic Blue line he showed us there. Melee-Ranged run-and-gun, hack-and-slash, hell yeah. AND that change would not nerf anything in the current Blue meta. Well, technically, we would lose Barrage to Red line, but we would gain Lingering Wound instead, and I'm all for a nice bleedy-bleedy.
The proposed changes to the Yellow Guardian, when the plan was to keep it alive was like 90% less exciting, and the DPS-AOE-Debuff-Tank role was too much of a hybrid, that it was useless in any of these cases. On the other hand, Blue line is not a meta for group, and? If you play Red solo instead, you miss half of the class essentially, because Blue Hunter is the best solo experience in the entire game. Objectively. I mostly play my main Red Guardian, but when I switch to my second main Blue Hunter, I always feel that unique awesomeness. Don't take this away from us please.

Unless there is a better proposal on removing Blue spec, I will 100% vote for the other option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theultimatekyle

Then it becomes damage vs slightly less damage but can move for identity of the lines.

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No, the intention is for blue to do roughly equal damage for red. The gameplay distinction is that now blue will mix in some hit and run melee stuff in order to maximise its damage.

It’s ranged sniper playstyle vs melee/ranged hybrid “ranger” playstyle. They’re not intending for blue to be a lesser dps than red, they want it to be an alternative dps option with different gameplay.


As for the rest both options offered are trying to promote yellow, there’s just a little disconnect between players/dev at the moment regarding the exact role yellow Hunter should be (if it’s to be a yLM equivalent it’s still missing lore-equivalent skills and the reliable CC).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joedangod

No, the intention is for blue to do roughly equal damage for red. The gameplay distinction is that now blue will mix in some hit and run melee stuff in order to maximise its damage.

It’s ranged sniper playstyle vs melee/ranged hybrid “ranger” playstyle. They’re not intending for blue to be a lesser dps than red, they want it to be an alternative dps option with different gameplay.


As for the rest both options offered are trying to promote yellow, there’s just a little disconnect between players/dev at the moment regarding the exact role yellow Hunter should be (if it’s to be a yLM equivalent it’s still missing lore-equivalent skills and the reliable CC).

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No, the intent was never stated to be blue doing roughly equal damage to red. That's what you want it to be. What the stated intent is:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Huntsman's identity is mid-range mobile harasser. The intent with this change would be to enable them to move in an out of melee fluidly to maximize their contributions to group DPS, without impeding their landscape/solo efficacy.
...

Yes. I want to modernize the class a little. Being able to move while using a ranged weapon is possible, but more difficult. Specialists - like the Huntsman - would ignore those difficulties but the other Hunters could benefit from being able to move. However, the incentive should be to reward the expected playstyle. Hunstman moving, Bowmaster stationary, and Trapper being a little tricksy.

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Devs have long stated red is the raid damage dealer. And ultimately, again, damage vs slightly less damage at slightly reduced range but moving, is a boring decision. Blue is redundant. If you have to choose between two lines, I'd rather choose between damage vs CC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theultimatekyle

No, the intent was never stated to be blue doing roughly equal damage to red. That's what you want it to be. What the stated intent is:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Huntsman's identity is mid-range mobile harasser. The intent with this change would be to enable them to move in an out of melee fluidly to maximize their contributions to group DPS, without impeding their landscape/solo efficacy.
...
Yes. I want to modernize the class a little. Being able to move while using a ranged weapon is possible, but more difficult. Specialists - like the Huntsman - would ignore those difficulties but the other Hunters could benefit from being able to move. However, the incentive should be to reward the expected playstyle. Hunstman moving, Bowmaster stationary, and Trapper being a little tricksy.

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Devs have long stated red is the raid damage dealer. And ultimately, again, damage vs slightly less damage at slightly reduced range but moving, is a boring decision. Blue is redundant. If you have to choose between two lines, I'd rather choose between damage vs CC.

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Apologies but that's incorrect, as seen below. Granted the quote you linked doesn't actually say anything about their goal for damage output, merely that they want them to have different gameplay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Just to close this out, the goal with incorporating melee into this tree is to make it an additive aspect of the trait tree, with better benefit in longer fights - traditionally group play. A well-played version of Huntsman using the mix and match of melee and ranged skills should be roughly comparable, in damage output, with a well-played Bowmaster.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by theultimatekyle

No, the intent was never stated to be blue doing roughly equal damage to red. That's what you want it to be.

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I don't know where you got this idea from, but that is not what has been stated by Orion about where the damage of the class should be, lol.

It's just as Joe pointed out.

How about we make the Redline the one that gets the axe and keep Blue and Yellow as the fully-fledged trees so the Hunter is always a mobile damage dealer and the Redline mains can suck eggs

re-quoted from Option 1 thread to re-close the debate on What Orion said about Huntsman vs Bowmaster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

A well-played version of Huntsman using the mix and match of melee and ranged skills should be roughly comparable, in damage output, with a well-played Bowmaster.

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my personal thoughts, is that this wouldn't apply to option 2, because of Huntsman becoming a utility line instead of a competitive line to Bowmaster, but option 2 is not live, it's a proposal, so i'd think that the quote is relevent to where SSG wants to the class to be at, and why both Option 1 and Option 2 are offered to the player base. Based on the feedback offered on the two options, SSG may have been pleasantly surprised to learn that many hunters actually prefer version 2 of option 1. (you have to read the whole thread to find all of version 2, or, currently, i've quoted version 2 all in one post , 2nd to last post in the thread.My guess, is that option 1 version 2 will probably become the new hunter, with maybe some iterative changes / improvements. i'm actually heavily leaning toward option 1 version 2 myself, now that iv'e actually realized it was buried in the thread.

pls, remove the Pathfinder-Trait, ,more runspeed out of combat is only a quality of life buff, no one use the trait in group or raid. beos or warden have also strong ooc runspeedbuffs, so the hunter can also have the 30% runspeed without invest skillpoints for that.

First - I play a blue-line hunter with some traits in red and yellow. Solo play 99% of the time.

1. If blue-line hunter will not be a specialisation, then how will the traits be accessed in the tree? What will that look like?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Pathfinder
3 Ranks
+5% Boost to Find the Path Speed/rank

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2. Does that mean that there will be no 15% ooc run speed boost anymore? It would make running around more tedious...

3. And how will the nock on the move and fire on the run combo work? are they passives like stances?

4. Speaking of stances, do we still get those at all, with blue line no longer being a specialisation?

5. Just my personal opinion, but I feel that the yellow line trapper spec would be more adept at being a support line rather than blue-line. I can definitely see the yellow traits be used in combination with red or blue trees.

~Just my two cents :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SkyWarpPro

I am strictly a solo player. And I have played strictly the fire-while-you-move line since it was first introduced.

So with that in mind, here are my thoughts on these two options.

My blue line seems to be fine. If we want to add more cool things to it, I am fine with that. Otherwise, not sure I need any changes.

But I understand many others have different play styles and needs for raids perhaps, so I understand some are interested in changes.

But if I were to take a stab at changes here is what I would focus on.

Two options:

Option 1) Turn Yellow into an extra trait area for the other two lines. Where Blue is moving while firing and Red is stationary with extra damage and range. Give Traps to everyone that way.

Option 2) Combine Red into Blue. Give Yellow Blues ability to fire while moving. Both lines can fire while moving. Yellow is focused on Traps (with a lot of improvements) and longer range while the other (Purple?) is heavy in Damage.

Hunter should be the easiest ranged class to play. That means very few skills should depend on other skills to work or perform better unless they are passively done.

Some skills I just don't find a use for or seldom use: Moving Target, Rapid Fire, Intensified Fire, Strength of the Earth, Press Onward, Quick Shot, Earthborn.

The one thing I really miss is the ability to purge poison while moving.

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I second all these, though I find press onwards became very useful after ~ level 100, as is quickshot for weaker and quick attacks. It helps me balance my focus level while fighting.
I also don't mind the slight complexity of attacks, like for eg with exanguinate and blood arrow ????

I don't have any specific input to the skills - I'm a casual hunter at best. BUT, I LOVE the idea of making the Huntsman line the "utility" line, allowing inductions on the move to the other two builds. Much better than keeping three lines of which only one is ever really played.

I do agree that a force taunt on any hunter skill is questionable to me - just sounds like too easy for a yellow hunter to inadvertently make a group-wiping "oops" of aggro.

Option 2 is looking quite sweet. Not had time to completely digest it all yet, but what i've read, I like,

On the force taunt, not sure that is really needed. A hunter is capable of pulling a mob off the tank already, though, they don't plant it anywhere and usually have to run it back to tank.

Vote for option #2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arnenna

Option 2 is looking quite sweet. Not had time to completely digest it all yet, but what i've read, I like,

On the force taunt, not sure that is really needed. A hunter is capable of pulling a mob off the tank already, though, they don't plant it anywhere and usually have to run it back to tank.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kalil

Vote for option #2

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I would urge you both to look for Orions responses on page 2 and 3 of the Option #1 thread, for his plans have changed from what is seen in the OP of that thread.