Who can defeat the Balrog at this age ?

[Souhei23]

Fingolfin - He fought Morgoth one-on-one and wounded the Dark Lord! You bet he could have taken a Balrog! The guy was a serious stud.

I LOL'd. So true. 7 times! I get all tingly every time I read that passage.

[HeirsofFingolfin]

Well I figured I'd put up the excerpt to show how awesome Fingolfin is.

Excerpt from The Silmarillion
“Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor,
and the defeat beyond the redress of all their houses; and filled with
wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth
alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a
wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking
that Orome himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so
that his eyes shown like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to
Angband’s gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the
brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And
Morgoth came.

Then Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld, and swung
it down like a bolt of thunder. But Fingolfin sprang aside, and Grond
rent a mighty pit in the earth, whence smoke and fire darted. Many times
Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time Fingolfin leaped away, as a
lighting shoots from under a dark cloud;and he wounded Morgoth with seven
wounds, and seven times Morgoth gave a cry of anguish, whereat the hosts
of Angband fell upon their faces in dismay, and the cries echoed in the
Northlands.

But at the last the King grew weary, and Morgoth bore down his shield
upon him. Thrice he was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and
bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all rent
and pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backwards before the feet
of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, and the weight of
it was like a fallen hill. Yet with his last and seperate stroke
Fingolfin hewed the foot with RINGIL, and the blood gushed forth black and
smoking and filled the pits of Grond. Thus died Fingolfin, High King of
the Noldor, most proud and valiant of the Elven-kings of old. The Orcs
made no boast of that duel at the gate; neither do the Elves sing of it,
for their sorrow is too deep. Yet the tale of it is remembered still, for
Thorondor King of Eagles brought tidings to Gondolin, and to Hithlim afar
off.

And Morgoth took the body of the Elven-king and broke it, and would
cast it to his wolves; but Thorondor came hasting from his eyrie among the
peaks of the Crissaegrim, and he stooped upon Morgoth and marred his face.
The rushing of the wings of Thorondor was like the noise of the winds of
Manwe, and he seized the body in his mighty talons, and soaring suddenly
above the darts of the Orcs he bore the King away. And he laid him upon
the mountain-top that looked rom the north upon the hidden valley of
Gondolin; and Turgon coming built a high cairn over his father. No Orc
dared ever after to pass over the mount of Fingolfin or draw nigh his
tomb, until the doom of Gondolin was come and treachery was born among his
kin."

Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin, pgs 153-154

[Aldous]

It's very easy to overstate that. Britain at the time was mostly focused on the wars with France. The American Revolution was more of a sideshow, and there was a significant lack of political will to prosecute it. Not to say that your points don't have merit, just that, as in most things, it's a little more complicated than that.

./BackOnTopic (sry!)

And the significant contribution by France to America's cause had a pretty profound effect. I've heard it said that Benjamin Franklin's diplomatic successes with the French rank right up there with George Washington's military efforts towards America's winning the Revolutionary War.

[Morthaur]

Did Gandalf win because he was wearing narya the ring of fire?, did this ring confer some immunity to the fire Demon or give him additional mastery over fire?, in which case maybe Cirdan when he wore this ring also had a better chance than normal of winning. Im of the opinion that Gandalfs' magical abilities, all which involve pyrotechnics were conferred on him through his ring rather than his being a "wizard" thus basing 2 classes on Gandalfs "spellcating abilities" was somewhat in error.

[GarethB]

Just a quibble to Vastin. Theoden wasn't killed by the Ringwraith's "aura". He was killed by injuries when his own horse fell on him. In the movie the winged beast threw the horse while Theoden was still on it, in the book the horse stumbled/fell over in fear when Theoden confronted the Ringwraith/winged beast, pinning Theoden on the ground and crushing him.

[Vastin]

Just a quibble to Vastin. Theoden wasn't killed by the Ringwraith's "aura". He was killed by injuries when his own horse fell on him. In the movie the winged beast threw the horse while Theoden was still on it, in the book the horse stumbled/fell over in fear when Theoden confronted the Ringwraith/winged beast, pinning Theoden on the ground and crushing him.

To be even more specific, Snowmane panicked and reared up in reaction to the Witch-king's presence and was then shot by an arrow from some unnamed enemy nearby, then fell on Theoden.

However, the attribution for the kill clearly goes to the Witch-king for his effective use of CC against the king's mount, making him an easy target for one of his archer pets.

[delphinius81]

To be even more specific, Snowmane panicked and reared up in reaction to the Witch-king's presence and was then shot by an arrow from some unnamed enemy nearby, then fell on Theoden.

However, the attribution for the kill clearly goes to the Witch-king for his effective use of CC against the king's mount, making him an easy target for one of his archer pets.

Theoden should have kept a devoted around to keep his horse immune to CC.

[Souhei23]

Watch out, ninja-nerf. The gloom mechanic gives your mounts -1000% Ranged Mit

[be0wulfe]

To be even more specific, Snowmane panicked and reared up in reaction to the Witch-king's presence and was then shot by an arrow from some unnamed enemy nearby, then fell on Theoden.

However, the attribution for the kill clearly goes to the Witch-king for his effective use of CC against the king's mount, making him an easy target for one of his archer pets.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, so you're saying the Witch-king was a CAPTAIN?!

OH HELLZ NOES

[ManticoreFalco]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, so you're saying the Witch-king was a CAPTAIN?!

OH HELLZ NOES

Captains have crowd control?

[finafarn]

I do believe the witch king was a powerful numenorian who converted sometime during the 2nd age. He finally took his final form of a nazgul after the battle of anor in which he was defeated.

Yes he was a captain at one point and became a sorceror later on

[sir-rinthian]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, so you're saying the Witch-king was a CAPTAIN?!

OH HELLZ NOES

I do believe the witch king was a powerful numenorian who converted sometime during the 2nd age. He finally took his final form of a nazgul after the battle of anor in which he was defeated.

Yes he was a captain at one point and became a sorceror later on

Yes, and correct. The Witch King was basically Sauron's right hand man in charge of armies and battles and all that stuff.

Captains have crowd control?

Yep, they can stun stuff.

[Thomhuck]

Have to ask only because I have no idea about his true power. Tom Bombadil? Could he solo a Balrog?

[finafarn]

Have to ask only because I have no idea about his true power. Tom Bombadil? Could he solo a Balrog?

He wouldn't care. That kinda of stuff didn't concern him. I doubt he would even notice it let alone do anything unless it tried to destroy his forest.

Put it this way the ring had no power over him so i doubt a balrog would fare any better.

[Thomhuck]

But if a Balrog did come to destroy his forest....

[skadoink]

But if a Balrog did come to destroy his forest....

The crater formerly known as Moria would be the result.....

Actually, probably not. Tom would never do something as crass as that. But he could probably 'banish' the balrog and shrug off any prior attack. But who knows? Tom is the ultimate enigma, even JRRT himself gave up trying to explain him.

[sir-rinthian]

The crater formerly known as Moria would be the result.....

Actually, probably not. Tom would never do something as crass as that. But he could probably 'banish' the balrog and shrug off any prior attack. But who knows? Tom is the ultimate enigma, even JRRT himself gave up trying to explain him.

Somewhere Gandalf (or was it Tolkien in a letter? I cant remember) stated that if Sauron wanted to destroy Tom, he would first have to wipe Middle-earth clean of even the smallest opposition, and focus his entire combined might on Tom. If it takes everything Sauron has to beat him, I'm thinking a balrog would have a pretty bad day if he tried to do anything tom didn't like.

Something to think of; The barrow wights in the Barrow Downs were under the control of the Witch King, even if just remotely. It was by the Witch Kings power that they came to life and filled that place. Tom was able to return a wight to death just by singing at it. Not commanding, not attacking, not casting spells, singing. That shows quite a bit of power, possibly more then the Witch King had. So we know Tom was at least as powerful as the Witch King, because he was able to break the curses placed on the wights by him.

[Reddhawk]

Tom is the ultimate enigma, even JRRT himself gave up trying to explain him.

It would be more accurate to say that Tolkien didn't want to explain him. I have no doubt that the professor could have explained him if he had wanted to, nor that he had an explanation in mind that he merely kept to himself to heighten the enigma.

Somewhere Gandalf (or was it Tolkien in a letter? I cant remember) stated that if Sauron wanted to destroy Tom, he would first have to wipe Middle-earth clean of even the smallest opposition, and focus his entire combined might on Tom.

I believe that's mentioned during the Council of Elrond. Basically the verdict is that Tom shouldn't take the Ring, because while he would be the last to fall, he too would eventually fall to Sauron.

[bigmatt19]

Somewhere Gandalf (or was it Tolkien in a letter? I cant remember) stated that if Sauron wanted to destroy Tom, he would first have to wipe Middle-earth clean of even the smallest opposition, and focus his entire combined might on Tom. If it takes everything Sauron has to beat him, I'm thinking a balrog would have a pretty bad day if he tried to do anything tom didn't like.

lol! that just struck me funny... but entirely accurate.

Something to think of; The barrow wights in the Barrow Downs were under the control of the Witch King, even if just remotely. It was by the Witch Kings power that they came to life and filled that place. Tom was able to return a wight to death just by singing at it. Not commanding, not attacking, not casting spells, singing. That shows quite a bit of power, possibly more then the Witch King had. So we know Tom was at least as powerful as the Witch King, because he was able to break the curses placed on the wights by him.

Something else to think about when dismissing the power of Tom's songs (and by that I mean, assuming his songs are his weakest power.) Wasn't the entire Middle Earth universe created using song? Doesn't the use of song actually rank at the highest levels of power in that case? So maybe we would just need to sing some death-metal to the Balrog and he'd explode.. who knows?

[sir-rinthian]

So maybe we would just need to sing some death-metal to the Balrog and he'd explode.. who knows?

oh my gosh that idea is too funny... but that would so have ruined the trilogy