What really happen to Celebrian when she got captured by Orcs

[DPRIJADI1]

all these discusiion .. ppl speculating about R*P*... what if the orcs/goblin really tormented celebrian by ticking her sensitive feet with a fluffy brush ? hours and hours of tickling is definitely traumatic.. maybe celebrian cannot stand to see another brush forever..

[BIGeyedBUG]

All of this discussion gives me an interesting idea. I'm now pondering what it would be like to write something that would convince readers to take nothing the author says at face value. Of course they'd have to take it at face value not to take anything else at face value. Mind boggling! 'Twould be the ultimate literary mind game.

Sounds terrific! And probably unprofitable.

Have you read Pale Fire by Nabokov?

Hey, what was that? It sounded like a thread train running off its tracks, through the woods, and down into a crevasse...

[Fionnuala]

I find a view like that difficult to understand. I mean, if you can accept that authors intend all kinds of things and fail more often than not, is it so difficult to see that they can also succeed at revealing things they never intended in the first place?

AFAIC authorial intent is just one important part of literary analysis, along with reader response, biography, psychology, history, and the textual structure itself.

There's a huge difference between unintentionally revealing themes, symbolism, meaning within stories, etc. and unintentionally revealing completely different plot developments. I don't think it's possible to write that someone was "tormented" and secretly (without knowing it) mean that she was actually r aped. That's a bit ludicrous.

All of this discussion gives me an interesting idea. I'm now pondering what it would be like to write something that would convince readers to take nothing the author says at face value. Of course they'd have to take it at face value not to take anything else at face value. Mind boggling! 'Twould be the ultimate literary mind game.

Seems very plausible to me. For instance, if your story was in first person and you established the narrator as someone completely unreliable... one could never be sure when he was telling the truth and when he was lying. Sounds like a fun way to write a story, actually.

[BIGeyedBUG]

There's a huge difference between unintentionally revealing themes, symbolism, meaning within stories, etc. and unintentionally revealing completely different plot developments. I don't think it's possible to write that someone was "tormented" and secretly (without knowing it) mean that she was actually r aped. That's a bit ludicrous.

Yah, I agree, but I was replying there to Thane9's larger, more sweeping point about modes of literary analysis in general:

"Some language is in fact objective. I'm not saying this specific passage is an example of that...as "tormented" could be interpreted different ways. But I've NEVER bought the whole idea of the readers determining the meaning of something written." etc.

[RamiroS]

I think there is no mention to sexual violence (avoiding filters) talking about Celebrian. in fact if Orcs are indeed a corrupted version of elves and inherited how elves practice sex we can assume they are not as active as humans. Looks to me that orcs are more driven to physical (not including sexual) violence and terror since they were conceived to be that way.