SG Experience - is this correct?

[Pennington]

I joined a SG group recently. We had a burg in the group that kept saying that, since they changed the instance, we run straight up the stairs and argo the first boss. We ended up having about 7 mobs on us including the boss. It was chaotic and we wiped three times in a row.

Is this the correct method? The burg (and leader of the PUG) was adament that this was the new way to do it. I can't believe he's right. Tell me he's not.

Also - how do get the town saver's helm? It looks cool and I want it for a cosemtic helm.

[oopsies]

no, you have to kill your way up the stairs, there are 2 sets of 4 uruks that you need to kill before attacking the brute.

[chosen1]

No that is not the way to do the first boss in SG

[gskgsadz]

I'm guessing you are talking about the first brute, and you guys were running up, activating the first 4 guards, then insta aggroing the brute and his guards.

Lol, this is what happens when people exploit with no clue how to do the encounter properly.

Run up stairs, left or right it doesn't matter. Round up 4 guards, beat on them till 3 are dead and 1 half health or thereabouts. Go activate brute, dps on guards while brute absorbs.

If you kill the 4 guards and wait too long before you get the brute, another set of 4 guards will come. No reason for this to ever happen.

[Pennington]

Thanks. A few of us in the group kept saying that this couldn't possibily be correct. We ended up dropping group.

[BoardGamer]

We always pull them from below (usually a hunter) in two waves.

Rapacious

[geoboy]

Lol. That's downright silly.

Edit: I guess I misunderstood. You are calling the brute at the top of the stairs the first boss. He's not a boss. Half the pulls in the place have these guys. You can pull the guards on your way up to the brute, but you should only be getting 4 of them + Brute. We usually take out 3 and then onto Brute and his two.

[DackRover]

But doing them all at once is more fun for the tank...if you are in a group that blazes down that entire first pull with ease, you are probably on a run that will clear the instance in under 30 minutes. Of course you might need an actual tank (guard or warden) to manage the front part in this way, rather than just a bunch of shing shing, so maybe such a tank-centric approach won't be too common. IMO, appreciate it if you have the chance...its fun and maybe at least one place where we can shine in there. Once you've knocked this down a zillion times, you need to find your excitement/enjoyment any way you can.

[Forohir]

A Guardian using his cooldowns can tank all of the orcs, and if you have a lot of AOE power you can get the Brute down very quickly. But yes, it is chaotic and you need both excellent healing and tanking.

[Dalthyn]

If you do pull the first 4 mobs plus the brute and his 2 buddies as well, and you've got one or more champs with you, pretty much don't bother trying to get aggro on the brute. Make sure the champ knows to turn him away from the group, and worry about aggroing everything else. With all the champ's damage from all those mobs being transferred to the brute, it's not worth trying to hold him.

[Belaeren]

But doing them all at once is more fun for the tank...if you are in a group that blazes down that entire first pull with ease, you are probably on a run that will clear the instance in under 30 minutes. Of course you might need an actual tank (guard or warden) to manage the front part in this way, rather than just a bunch of shing shing, so maybe such a tank-centric approach won't be too common. IMO, appreciate it if you have the chance...its fun and maybe at least one place where we can shine in there. Once you've knocked this down a zillion times, you need to find your excitement/enjoyment any way you can.

I've done this with a few guys on our server on my RK, Dack, in a semi-PUG. We did 3 runs back to back in just over 30 minutes each. Our best time was 31:08. The group needs a different mentality than most groups have, though; no CC, no careful mob-by-mob pulls, just aggressive aggro and AoE. I wouldn't try this without a Guard/Warden as tank and a Champ for AoE, though.

It really changes perspective on farming for IXP runes, relics and Medallions when you can get 2-3 runs done in the same time many other groups need for one run. SG rewards are far better than SH rewards.

[DackRover]

I've done this with a few guys on our server on my RK, Dack, in a semi-PUG. We did 3 runs back to back in just over 30 minutes each. Our best time was 31:08. The group needs a different mentality than most groups have, though; no CC, no careful mob-by-mob pulls, just aggressive aggro and AoE. I wouldn't try this without a Guard/Warden as tank and a Champ for AoE, though.

It really changes perspective on farming for IXP runes, relics and Medallions when you can get 2-3 runs done in the same time many other groups need for one run. SG rewards are far better than SH rewards.

Agreed 100%...my group started and learned the instance this way in the first days...I enjoyed it while it lasted...then i became sortof miserable doing the instance with CC and that front exploit becoming a mindset that sortof took over. Am very pleased to be back to that original fun and (to me) preferable mindest of big fast pulls and blazes, with just as you stated that ~ 30 minute marker as the target, occasionally reached when all goes perfectly.

Have had some amazing times pulling / trying to pull / and yes many times failing a full pull of the room on the "actual" boss 1 a bit further in...but as said, I get my kicks from the game in odd ways now waiting for new content, and a guaranteed success is not always critical to my enjoyment...coming back to room1 after a full pull and a wipe, to find only one LM and a guard still alive...then pulling them along WITH boss 1 just for a challenge and DOING IT without another death, to me anyway, is kinda cool.

[echa1]

Also - how do get the town saver's helm? It looks cool and I want it for a cosemtic helm.

Either do the Rift (level 50 12-man raid) or barter for the cosmetic helm from the Cosmetics NPC at any skirmish camp.

[Reillan]

Wow, some folks are fighting way too many mobs.

Just engage the first wave at the bottom, make sure the guard gets some aggro on them (not just challenge), and then run up to the top of the stairs. Hold them there until you kill *3* of the 4. Then turn and aggro the brute. As long as you're fighting the brute before you kill the 4th mob, you shouldn't get another wave of adds.

[ppinkham]

Wow, some folks are fighting way too many mobs.

Just engage the first wave at the bottom, make sure the guard gets some aggro on them (not just challenge), and then run up to the top of the stairs. Hold them there until you kill *3* of the 4. Then turn and aggro the brute. As long as you're fighting the brute before you kill the 4th mob, you shouldn't get another wave of adds.

This!!! ^^

[XSYS]

Of course you might need an actual tank (guard or warden) to manage the front part in this way, rather than just a bunch of shing shing, so maybe such a tank-centric approach won't be too common.

A Guardian using his cooldowns can tank all of the orcs, and if you have a lot of AOE power you can get the Brute down very quickly. But yes, it is chaotic and you need both excellent healing and tanking.

I wouldn't try this without a Guard/Warden as tank and a Champ for AoE, though.

You guys overestimate tank classes. With good healing support (minstrel/RK and burg/captain/both), this pull and the rest of the instance can be "tanked" by champs in Fervor without too much trouble. The main thing with champs is that most of their threat comes from damage, so it takes a bit more skill to keep the healer alive in brute pulls. (In the first room, it's good to let the group burn the guards for 10-15 seconds before pulling the brute, just to make sure your healer doesn't get too much aggro.) Well, that and that when a champ in Fervor gets multiple sorcerer debuffs he becomes really hard to heal. Ultimately though, reward-oriented content repetition is by nature a DPS race, and the risks don't outweigh the rewards of stacking DPS over tanks and, to a lesser extent, support. I hate it, but for coordinated groups SG has become the latest place where tanks are only slowing the run down.

[Faithbringer]

I joined a SG group recently. We had a burg in the group that kept saying that, since they changed the instance, we run straight up the stairs and argo the first boss. We ended up having about 7 mobs on us including the boss. It was chaotic and we wiped three times in a row.

Is this the correct method? The burg (and leader of the PUG) was adament that this was the new way to do it. I can't believe he's right. Tell me he's not.

Also - how do get the town saver's helm? It looks cool and I want it for a cosemtic helm.

Good fellowships can do this and it is great fun. I do it this way with my semi-nightly run. We usually go with Warden (me), Minstrel, Captain, 3xChamp. I can usually hold all seven and our minstrel is epic so nobody dies. DPS is great and the brute drops fast. As someone earlier in the thread said, when you run SG enough times you need to start doing things like this to start having fun :-).

[Tinluen]

When we run SG we our group varies a bit but one night we did it with two champs, cappy, two RK's and a hunter. That first pull was fun... maybe not so much for the healers, but the brute dropped fast due to the champs and me AOEing the hell out of the guards around him. We ground them up in maybe 3-4 minutes tops. Was a very smooth run. Love SG, need new dice though, still haven't gotten the symbol yet.

Tydalmir- Atani and home of the big E

[Cluanar]

If you have 2 or more champs then running up the stairs and pulling the whole group should be fine but you need to have an experienced group. Pugs with randoms should just take the first pull up to upper platform then pull brute when 3 down.

Experienced groups can now farm SG with no cc/tanks or healers. champs cappies ( sorry cappies, don't mean to imply you cannot heal, I'm stating you can heal good enough for this ) hunters can work fine.

[EnkiduWearsPants]

The last several times I have run it on my Guard (post Volume3 patch), the first fight has gone like this:

We all run up one of the stairs, bring two sets of two Uruk Guards (4 total) with us to the top of the stairs. We burn down about 2.5 of the Uruks, then main tank aggros the Brute and his two Uruk Guards. I think that stops the next wave from spawning. At that point, the 3rd Uruk drops and we have a total of 1 Uruk Brute and 3 Uruk Guards. MT has aggro on 3/4 of the mobs. Another two Uruks usually spawns part-way through the fight. We AoE like crazy and burn down the Brute, whether by direct damage or by absorbed damage. Even with solid AoE taunts, my guard still has trouble keeping aggro on ALL mobs for the duration of the fight.

TIP: Be sure to tank the Brute so that he is facing AWAY from the rest of your party. His AoEs can outpace the healing your min can output. This also applies to the BG raid.

I'm not sure how the strat would need to be adapted for Wardens as MT though. I'm assuming the Warden would need to be on raid assist and have people DPS your target first, so you don't have any peels.

If you are running with Champs/Hunters that aren't managing aggro and die from peels, smack them upside the helmet.

[Aidus]

The last several times I have run it on my Guard (post Volume3 patch), the first fight has gone like this:

We all run up one of the stairs, bring two sets of two Uruk Guards (4 total) with us to the top of the stairs. We burn down about 2.5 of the Uruks, then main tank aggros the Brute and his two Uruk Guards. I think that stops the next wave from spawning. At that point, the 3rd Uruk drops and we have a total of 1 Uruk Brute and 3 Uruk Guards. MT has aggro on 3/4 of the mobs. Another two Uruks usually spawns part-way through the fight. We AoE like crazy and burn down the Brute, whether by direct damage or by absorbed damage. Even with solid AoE taunts, my guard still has trouble keeping aggro on ALL mobs for the duration of the fight.

TIP: Be sure to tank the Brute so that he is facing AWAY from the rest of your party. His AoEs can outpace the healing your min can output. This also applies to the BG raid.

I'm not sure how the strat would need to be adapted for Wardens as MT though. I'm assuming the Warden would need to be on raid assist and have people DPS your target first, so you don't have any peels.

If you are running with Champs/Hunters that aren't managing aggro and die from peels, smack them upside the helmet.

I notice a lot of people are burning 2+ guards before pulling the Brute. Our typical farm group just pulls all four of the first guards up to the brute and his 2 or 3 and just goes to town. We don't do this stacked with Champs but with a balanced group (1 tank, 2 dps, 1 cc, 1 utility, 1 healer).

So my question is...

Why don't you pull all the stuff at once?

[DackRover]

I notice a lot of people are burning 2+ guards before pulling the Brute. Our typical farm group just pulls all four of the first guards up to the brute and his 2 or 3 and just goes to town. We don't do this stacked with Champs but with a balanced group (1 tank, 2 dps, 1 cc, 1 utility, 1 healer).

So my question is...

Why don't you pull all the stuff at once?

Agreed...healers should be able to handle this even without mutliple champs burning things possibly more quickly, so long as the tank is successfully holding all or at least most of the full pull onto himself, and the others are not being AoE'd as your RK's and Hunters, etc., kill things with relative impunity.

[EnkiduWearsPants]

Risk mitigation.

If you pull everything at once and something goes wrong... maybe you wipe? You're less likely to fail by burning a couple down first.

If it's safer and easier, why not do it that way? If you want a challenge, go solo BG or something. What? People normally run it as a 12-man, you say? Wimps...

[DackRover]

instance is boring at this point...need to spice it up...blast thru fast and hope for a symbol.

[Aidus]

instance is boring at this point...need to spice it up...blast thru fast and hope for a symbol.

Our fastest run yet I think, Warden, OP Guard, Champ, 2 capts, and a Mini. I want to ditch the mini for an 2nd OP guard.