Are elves really immune to the effects of alcohol?

[CQ-Reborn]

I think it is odd that in the movie Legolas couldn't get drunk, but some of my elf-loving (read as sissy girl men) friends seem to think that elves are immune to the effects of drink.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong, since the worker elves in Mirkwood got drunk on that fancy wine, allowing Bilbo and the Dwarves to escape.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Mykkul]

In the Hobbit, I definitely recall some wood-elves getting drunk and passing out on wine, so I would say they aren't immune to the effects. They just might not show them as readily as say a dwarf or human or hobbit would

[BIGeyedBUG]

But also in that episode of The Hobbit: "It must be potent wine to make a wood-elf drowsy." I take that to imply other Elves are the same way: resistant to the effects of alcohol, but not immune.

[Linwe-Elfmaiden]

LOl-- highly resistant-- requires VERY potent wine and apparently in significant quantities!

[aleczander]

this seems contradictory to tolkien's description of elves as immortal beings who couldn't die from disease or sickness, rather only could be slain in battle or die of great grief.
If an elf could get really drunk and pass out, it isn't a big jump to go further and have said elf get alcohol poisoning and die... no?

[Boraxxe]

this seems contradictory to tolkien's description of elves as immortal beings who couldn't die from disease or sickness, rather only could be slain in battle or die of great grief.
If an elf could get really drunk and pass out, it isn't a big jump to go further and have said elf get alcohol poisoning and die... no?

I don't think that dieing from poison is the same as disease or sickness.
I would equate it to dieing in battle from a weapon. In this case the weapon is poison.

[TsarithArcher]

Resistant to alcohol, perhaps, but more likely a matter of conditioning. Alcohol Conditioning is basically a form of tolerance through Behavior Modification. It is common in alcoholics and because of Alcohol Conditioning it makes it difficult for family, friends, co-workers, and even Law Enforcement to detect when someone with Alcohol Conditioning is inebriated. Although biologically they still suffer the effects of Alcohol just as someone without Alcohol Conditioning, those who have modified their behavior to show a tolerance don't show traditional signs of inebriation.

Considering how long-lived Elves are, and considering how noble and in-control of themselves they are, it would stand to reason that Elves are most adept at Alcohol Conditioning, being able to hide the effects of the inebriation even though they are suffering the same biological effects as the next Race.

Case in point, my Elves ran the Inn League Bar Crawl the other day. Even after 36 Beers I was still able to run a Horse Race successfully while the timer to get to my next Pub was still counting down, and still make it to my destination successfully. Everything was still moving and blurry, and my movement was over-exaggerated, but I was still able to compensate for that and perform my tasks exceptionally well, doing things that others have trouble doing entirely sober. Even after 8 more beers, I was able to run both Bullroarer's Challenge and the Bullroarer's Advanced Challenge on a single try for each even though I could barely see the fence I was standing on and it kept swaying and moving.

Just because Elves feel the effects of alcohol doesn't mean that they have to show the affects. A little Behavior Modification can go a long way towards Alcohol Conditioning, making it appear that you are fully immune and tolerant to alcohol when such couldn't be further from the case.

[aleczander]

elves are thinner that men in most cases - so are they likely to suffer the effects more?
Yeah, PJ and friends botched the rohan drinking scene with legolas..

good point about poison vs. disease. however, how do you classify liver disease from alcohol?

[Boraxxe]

elves are thinner that men in most cases - so are they likely to suffer the effects more?
Yeah, PJ and friends botched the rohan drinking scene with legolas..

good point about poison vs. disease. however, how do you classify liver disease from alcohol?

I would call liver malfunction from alcohol poisoning. It's not like a disease you acquire. It's a condition that is the result of exposure.

[aleczander]

I would call liver malfunction from alcohol poisoning. It's not like a disease you acquire. It's a condition that is the result of exposure.

True, at least modern doctors think so... but it's funny how they call it liver disease specifically rather than "poisoned" or "damaged" liver. Same with heart disease and lung disease etc.

What about cancer caused by liver maladies from drinking? That not really a disease or sickness either?

The point I was getting to is that "immortal" beings in other settings who can't die from sickness/disease are also immune to poisons and alcohol etc.

Maybe an oversight? Tolkien wasn't perfect, and just wanted to identify a possible contradiction : it wouldn't be the first one documented from tolkien lore...

[Darmokk]

Are elves really immune to the effects of alcohol?

I think after a couple thousand years of "training" they are just hardened off.

Cheers.

[BIGeyedBUG]

this seems contradictory to tolkien's description of elves as immortal beings who couldn't die from disease or sickness, rather only could be slain in battle or die of great grief.
If an elf could get really drunk and pass out, it isn't a big jump to go further and have said elf get alcohol poisoning and die... no?

Tolkien is consistent, at least. As far as poisons go, there are at least two examples of Elves suffering serious or mortal injury from poison wounds.

Now if you're really just interested in the scientific underpinnings behind Tolkien's differentiation between poison and disease on the bodies of immortal Elves...good luck with that.

[aleczander]

Tolkien is consistent, at least. As far as poisons go, there are at least two examples of Elves suffering serious or mortal injury from poison wounds.

Now if you're really just interested in the scientific underpinnings behind Tolkien's differentiation between poison and disease on the bodies of immortal Elves...good luck with that.

I know it... lol

maybe turbine will come up with a back story for an elf trapped in a cave somewhere who drank himself to death on stored wine barrels cause no water could be found...

[Vastin]

Well, the Hobbit shows that Elves can certainly get themselves drunk.

They can also be killed by poison, so presumably an Elf could theoretically drink themselves to death.

However, they would be unlikely to suffer much from the long term physiological effects of drinking. Elves physical bodies are much more regenerative than humans. Scars fade, all injuries heal - I'm not sure but I get the feeling that it may even extend to regrowing lost limbs over very long periods of time? In any case they would almost certainly not suffer from issues like long term liver damage the way a human certainly would. Cellular damage of that sort would almost certainly regenerate pretty quickly.

As for alcoholism as an Elvish behavior - I really couldn't say. The elves seemed to have been mostly unaffected by petty vices of that sort, they usually stuck to the big ones like hubris and revenge to get themselves in real trouble.

[aleczander]

this makes me think... it's a pity elves never took up smoking of the weed..

[BIGeyedBUG]

Scars fade, all injuries heal - I'm not sure but I get the feeling that it may even extend to regrowing lost limbs over very long periods of time?

I doubt it, but if so it would have to take an extremely long time. Maehdros lost a hand but "lived to wield his sword with left hand more deadly than his right had been." If he did sprout a new one over the course of the next six centuries of his life, Tolkien didn't mention it.

[chompo78]

Scars fade, all injuries heal - I'm not sure but I get the feeling that it may even extend to regrowing lost limbs over very long periods of time?

Are you serious?
Just.....wow.....

You do realize that in real life, scars fade. As a very little kid, I was drug by a horse, Growing up I had no finger prints and wicked scars on my palms and some minor scars around my mouth.
The ones around my mouth are all but gone, my pinky prints have grown back and the scar tissue on the others and palms shrinks and growns less noticable (coloration and texture) every year.

Now if I lived for thousands of years, they would all be gone, not problem, even after about 25 years they are much better.


Growing back a limb though? Never seen a single inkling of this in any of Tolkiens works.

[Darkheart06]

Evidently, the elves of Lorien didn't get the memo.

"O Elbereth! Star-kindly!"

I had to admonish several of those revelers...

[oldbadgerbrock]

Elves immunity to the intoxicating effects of alcohol was purely the invention of Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, and Philippa Boyens. As others have pointed out, in Tolkien's writing the Elves of Mirkwood become intoxicated, albeit on the very strong Dorwinion wine. In LOTRO, player-character Elves can become intoxicated (although they incorrectly can also suffer disease, which I believe is done for the sake of race balance), and the Elves in Lothlórien become quite tipsy during their revelries as Darkheart06 points out.

Elves physical bodies are much more regenerative than humans. Scars fade, all injuries heal - I'm not sure but I get the feeling that it may even extend to regrowing lost limbs over very long periods of time?

Elves do not suffer from disease, and were in general hardier than Men and more difficult to slay, but they could have wounds or injuries that did not fully heal. In The Silmarillion Maedhros, the eldest son of Fëanor, was shackled to the side of the cliff and could only be rescued by having his hand severed. He did not regrow his hand.

[AgamemnonV2]

Elves immunity to the intoxicating effects of alcohol was purely the invention of Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, and Philippa Boyens. As others have pointed out, in Tolkien's writing the Elves of Mirkwood become intoxicated, albeit on the very strong Dorwinion wine.

Yes, but it would take quite an amount of alcohol for an Elf to become intoxicated, as evident by the Dwarf's commentary about the passed-out guards in Thranduil's Halls. Given also the invention of Dorwinion wine, this might also imply that Elves need to drink hard liquor just to feel the effects. Given that the Rohirrim were likely drinking mead, I don't think it's too difficult to assume that Legolas would have had no trouble holding his own on what he probably considered to be sweetened water (mead does rank pretty low as far as alcohol content goes).