Embrace reality fellow hunters

[YesMaam]

You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 94 points of Morale.
The Shadow defeated Kuroth.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 613 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 38 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 180 points of Westernesse damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,121 points of Shadow damage.
You heal yourself for 13 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 344 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 38 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 256 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 104 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 262 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 38 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,614 points of Morale.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,306 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 827 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 391 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 38 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 214 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 261 points of Westernesse damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You have dispelled Vile Energies from Cargaraf.
You have dispelled Vile Energies from Cargaraf.
You have dispelled Vile Energies from Cargaraf.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Merciful Shot for 808 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 38 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 230 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 214 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 1,641 points of Shadow damage.
Ceowenwyn has been revived.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 276 points of Fire damage.
You heal 3,813 points of your wounds.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 259 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 230 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,520 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 414 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 344 points of Fire damage.
Dunkwearer heals you for 1,136 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 380 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 709 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 175 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 817 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 314 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 305 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 2,684 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
Kuroth has been revived.
You wound Cargaraf with Burning Arrow for 236 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 314 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 67 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 1,896 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 292 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 307 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,634 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 358 points of Fire damage.
Vronwulf heals you for 1,124 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 441 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 427 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 304 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 589 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You have dispelled Vile Energies from Cargaraf.
You have dispelled Vile Energies from Cargaraf.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Merciful Shot for 811 points of Westernesse damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,804 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 245 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 153 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 2,106 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 230 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 198 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 220 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,980 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 252 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,340 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 130 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 400 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 183 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,934 points of Morale.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,022 points of Shadow damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 347 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 218 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,950 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 44 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 816 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 197 points of Westernesse damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,002 points of Shadow damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 44 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 824 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 300 points of Westernesse damage.
You heal yourself for 13 Power points.
You have dispelled Vile Energies from Cargaraf.
You have dispelled Vile Energies from Cargaraf.
You wound Cargaraf for 44 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Merciful Shot for 895 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,387 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 181 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 44 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 914 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 741 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 44 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 66 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 214 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 202 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 80 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 49 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 2,019 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Burning Arrow for 280 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 269 points of Westernesse damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 375 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 49 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 190 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 49 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 231 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,662 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 283 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 175 points of Morale.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 1,839 points of Shadow damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 213 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 353 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 177 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 89 points of Morale.
Silidhor heals you for 1,615 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 1,905 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 13 Power points.
Silidhor heals you for 81 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 62 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 960 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 240 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 251 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,430 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 42 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 62 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 745 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 100 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 375 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,360 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 42 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 230 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
Ceowenwyn heals you for 1,945 points of Morale.
Silidhor heals you for 1,701 points of Morale.
Silidhor heals you for 100 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 62 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 13 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 264 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 167 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 62 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 99 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Burning Arrow for 210 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 186 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,505 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 75 points of Morale.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,476 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 428 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 422 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 191 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 91 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 215 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 405 points of Fire damage.
Ceowenwyn heals you for 3,449 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 1,860 points of Shadow damage.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 224 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,842 points of Morale.
Vronwulf heals you for 1,514 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 216 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 326 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 197 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 281 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,565 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 42 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 612 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 146 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 62 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,162 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 339 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 184 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 215 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 42 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 236 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,398 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 241 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 252 points of Westernesse damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 143 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf for 42 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 366 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 103 points of Morale.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 336 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,559 points of Morale.
Silidhor heals you for 86 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 306 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 2,423 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 339 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 94 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 206 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 210 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 2,006 points of Morale.
You heal 1,094 points of your wounds.
Silidhor heals you for 94 points of Morale.
Morgaraf defeated Elrohdor.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 379 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 310 points of Fire damage.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 185 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,971 points of Morale.
Silidhor heals you for 77 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 11 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 321 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 292 points of Westernesse damage.
You heal yourself for 9 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 340 points of Fire damage.
Elrohdor has been revived.
Silidhor heals you for 103 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 205 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 2,017 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 612 points of Fire damage.
Cargaraf wounds you with Shadow Bolt for 1,468 points of Shadow damage.
You wound Cargaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 202 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 91 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 10 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Penetrating Shot: Burn Through for 359 points of Fire damage.
The Shadow defeated Elrohdor.
You wound Cargaraf for 45 points of Fire damage.
Jagathir defeated Cargaraf.
You heal yourself for 13 Power points.
You wound Cargaraf with Quick Shot: Flaming Arrow for 325 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 89 points of Morale.
You heal yourself for 12 Power points.
You wound Morgaraf with Improved Swift Bow: Ablaze for 533 points of Fire damage.
Silidhor heals you for 1,509 points of Morale.
Your mighty blow defeated Morgaraf.
Silidhor heals you for 94 points of Morale.
You wound Morgaraf with Default Ranged Attack for 437 points of Westernesse damage.
Silidhor heals you for 79 points of Morale.
Silidhor heals you for 1,841 points of Morale.
Elrohdor has been revived.

[YesMaam]

There you have it. Im still looking for my 280-300k on my main parse. If you can post something refuting S:S in this situation (a long duration extremley high dread DPS race) then take the wheel.

[Leadfingers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

Found that oddly relevant.

Your link didn't work for me, but.. yes... I agree. And thank you for giving me a proper word to describe this.

[rawlingsst7]

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that parse. That Strength Stance is superior to Precision/Endurance for ranged-tanking an immobile, single-target boss?

I don't think anyone is going to argue that.

[YesMaam]

All other hunters were in strength stance (because I was, so they didnt have to worry about agro) Thus the entire side DPS went up. Your suggesting this is not a good example. Then provide an example for me where pres>strength apart from very last part of LT fight. In lotro. (Also traiting resoloute aim which I do makes no setback for inductions for 45 seconds of every 2 minutes, wether the mob is beating on me or not will not hamper my DPS>)

We are talking about damage vs damage here. Not agro.

[YesMaam]

You would assume that if the boss isnt hitting you and you went pres you would do more DPS then? At least thats what it sounds like your suggesting. That you would do 300,000 damage in P:S. I think not. The boss is hitting me in this parse the entire time hampering my inductons no different then if he was in melee range. Had i not have had agro my DPS would have been more making this parse accurate for people that say they would have agro.

[Aidus]

lol back to attacking me and not posting any pres proof. I've tried posting a SS on here and it says the files too big, w/e that means. Rather then asking me for my proof why not show yours that you claim this forum has i quote: "dedicated years of research too". where is it?

Dude, the information has been posted and discussed at length. You may want to stop typing and start doing some research and reading. Anyone who has been reading these forums over time has seen and discussed this information. The interesting thing is, those people trypically will say something along the lines of ....

"Every stance has its place, S:P is typically the best stance all around stance considering the power/threat/DPS balance. There are situations where S:E and S:S will be better choices, and we use those stances when appropriate."

And Not...

"Precision > than all and if you use anything else or think anything else you are a loser and stupid."

And so to conclude....

You have made assertions without fact and then apparently demand those who refute the assertions to post fact or admit you are right.

I demand you offer some PROOF of your claim or shut your yammering pie hole!

So take your own advice and offer the proof you don't like being asked for, those who disagree with you have actually shown proof in the past, you however have offered nothing but nonsense and conjecture.

There is a few threads in the General discussion about how to post your images in the forums, the first thing you need is to have the images hosted some where on the internet. Turbine does not want to use the storage space to hold our images.

Good luck to you.

[NameAlreadyTaken]

If you want useful data, as in time stamped so you can see how long that took, you have to use the 'Export' feature in CStats. Otherwise it doesn't keep the time stamps and put out a DPS value. You can post a link to the XML file and people can import it to see the thing as you saw it, or you can take some pictures of the output. Just posting a total aggregate damage value doesn't tell you much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

Found that oddly relevant.

Indeed.

[Aidus]

Yes traiting full pres from full strength is 1.6 to 1.5. Go do it now.

Fail....

Trait huntsman or Bowmaster

Stance Precision or Strength

This is why no one here takes you seriously... you display an enormous amount of ignorance.

[rawlingsst7]

The whole point of the tradeoff between S:S Damage / Power Cost / Threat is to force intelligent decisions about stance use.

S:S gives you more damage at the cost of more power and much more threat.

You are obviously geared well enough to minimize the effects on your power.

And ranged-tanking something turns the other penalty of S:S into an advantage.

So you are making a blanket conclusion ("Strength > Precision > Endurance") and then justifying it with a specific situation in which there really are no downsides to the stance you prefer. It's not a logical argument, it's just silly. Of course Strength is going to be superior in that situation. It's vast majority of other situations that's really important, where the choice of stances is far more complicated than "Strength > Precision > Endurance".

[CWood]

There are 40 uses of ISB in that mess, so if he fired it off the split second it came off cooldown every single time, his best-case scenario is 574 DPS.

[Aidus]

There are 40 uses of ISB in that mess, so if he fired it off the split second it came off cooldown every single time, his best-case scenario is 574 DPS.

Wow! I dismissed the wall of text, you sir have earned +rep for diligence and for treating a troll with respect it does not deserve.

[YesMaam]

Fail....

Trait huntsman or Bowmaster

Stance Precision or Strength

This is why no one here takes you seriously... you display an enormous amount of ignorance.

Im sitting at my screen atm and my swift bow is 1.5 seconds traited for P:S. Traited for 25% strength is it 1.6. Lol go read the tutorial.

[NameAlreadyTaken]

He isn't disputing the induction time on the skills but your choice of wording. You trait either Bowmaster or Huntsman; you can't trait Precision or Strength as they are stances and not trait lines. You also get the maximum induction bonus at 4 Huntsman, not 'full' (or 5) Huntsman traits.

It's a bit nitpicky, but that's what he's saying. I wasn't worried about it cause you play on a EU server and English may or may not be your first language.

[Aidus]

Im sitting at my screen atm and my swift bow is 1.5 seconds traited for P:S. Traited for 25% strength is it 1.6. Lol go read the tutorial.

Traits are Huntsman, Bowmaster, and Trapper of Foes.

Stances are Endurance, Precision, and Strength.

There are TRAITS that give you bonuses in certain STANCES. ie Quick shot slow in S:S.

I do not know what Class traits you have slotted but I can assure you those are the things that have an effect on your induction speeds. See this link for a description of Precision.

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Skill:Stance:_Precision

this is for Strength

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Skill:Stance:_Strength

this is for endurance

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Skill:Stance:_Endurance


Traits that reduce induction times are found in the Huntsman line found here:

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Trait:The_Huntsman_(Set)

You may have also slotted the class trait:

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Trait:Fast_Draw

Which decreases your Swift Bow and Barbed Arrow time. But none of these have anything to do with your stance.

Have a nice day.

[Malakho]

To the OP: I'm genuinely interested in finding out what your overall numbers are, It would be interesting. Yes, folks can come across as blunt at times, but in all honesty it's not like you started this thread with a friendly request for information.

"hay fellow hunters! i was parsing some data in our last BG run and was wondering about this whole S-P-E stance thing...wanted your thoughts on the matter"

If you would've have started with that, many of the people here would have been more open to discussion. Nuff said. problem is now we got a bunch of ego that is trying hard as hell to protect itself (a foolish idea at best, but it happens)

How about this. How about taking a neutral environment, asking a few friends to help you out. get a situation where you aren't' relying on maximum performance, such as a turtle run. set up two traits sets, each one maximizing the beneifts of the particular stacne (i.e. max str traits for str stance, and max hunts traits for prec stance). run your parses, do what NAT suggested ot get more effective parsing data from cstats, and post it.

In spite of a situation we have now, where you've sorta threw yourself on the stage. Let's pull back the reigns, get some objective data, and go from there. Personally? I love my hunter, and IM abotu improvement. I could care less if I look better or sound better then anyeon else. If you have info taht can improve what I do, then great. But I need comparatives. I trust many of the folks that have been arguing on this thread because I've SEEN their data. I'd love to see yours. Fair enough? if you can do that, and ignore the frustration for now, I think well all become better hunters in the end.

[Aidus]

He isn't disputing the induction time on the skills but your choice of wording. You trait either Bowmaster or Huntsman; you can't trait Precision or Strength as they are stances and not trait lines. You also get the maximum induction bonus at 4 Huntsman, not 'full' (or 5) Huntsman traits.

It's a bit nitpicky, but that's what he's saying. I wasn't worried about it cause you play on a EU server and English may or may not be your first language.

I think he plays on Brandywine. I saw a name or two I recognized healing while looking through the combat log. If it is a situation where the player is using ESL then I apologize for being anal about the words used.

And yes it is a bit nitpicky but when trying to discuss how things work in this game I find many hunters are not clear on the differences and they mistake what skill, trait, or stance accomplishes specific things for them.

[rawlingsst7]

You would assume that if the boss isnt hitting you and you went pres you would do more DPS then? At least thats what it sounds like your suggesting. That you would do 300,000 damage in P:S. I think not. The boss is hitting me in this parse the entire time hampering my inductons no different then if he was in melee range. Had i not have had agro my DPS would have been more making this parse accurate for people that say they would have agro.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that a parse off a boss that's most efficiently tanked from range, by a hunter, is not a good scenario to compare the relative worth of a stance.

First of all, Cargaraf has no ranged auto-attacks. She does Shadow Bolt on the tank, over and over and over. Mixes in purple eyes and fear debuffs with that. Induction setbacks from Carg are far, far less of an issue than from anything in melee range. Just look at your combat log, you were getting off 2 auto-attacks and 2-4 skills between each Shadow Bolt.

Second of all, nobody here is claming they could do more DPS in Precision on that boss. Cargaraf is like the perfect storm for Strength Stance. The only way it could be better is if she had a power heal on damage like the fellbeast.

What we are trying to get across here, is that unless you plan on tanking everything, running 4BM Strength is disruptive to groups and you can still do very competitive DPS in 4 Huntsman Precision while suffering far less power and aggro issues. You saw it yourself when you tried it in SG.

You apparently have no power issues thanks to all your neat gear. Congrats.

You apparently have a group that doesn't care if you're hunter-tanking everything. Bully.

You seem to have this idea that "good hunters have aggro" hence your knock against "morale built hunters never have solid long term aggro." ...


...aaaaaand you just edited your OP again. Surreal. You really have no clue. I guess your criteria for the value of a hunter is just BIGYELLOWNUMBARZZ and to hell with the rest of the group

I'm out.

[NameAlreadyTaken]

I think he plays on Brandywine. I saw a name or two I recognized healing while looking through the combat log. If it is a situation where the player is using ESL then I apologize for being anal about the words used.

And yes it is a bit nitpicky but when trying to discuss how things work in this game I find many hunters are not clear on the differences and they mistake what skill, trait, or stance accomplishes specific things for them.

I thought he was in Solstice, but you're right he did mention BW earlier in the thread.

A my.lotro profile or just a character name would still be swell.

[mudgie]

I parse my DPS, I've done the second boss in BG with 2 other hunters, I did over 50% dmg of the bosses health and both hunters had more rad then me and better bows. 280,000 dmg off cargaraf. This was because 1) 25% more damage 2) Using the right skills and 3 ) 60,000 extra damage from traited/legcy barbed bleed. (150 dmg every 2 seconds non crit for 15 mins=67k).

The word gay wasnt to players, was to the stances. Your not gay cause you believe on stance is better, if you want to use that playstyle of hit more and do less dps and dont draw agro thats up to you, I was simply confirming strength is not a bad thing and I can post parse logs on here if people dont believe me.

seems you are fairly new to playing hunter my reasoning being that you are equating strength stance to 25% bonus dmg and precision stance to fail.
you need to look at traits again and see what they do!
So hunter lessons 101
1) strength stance gives a varying bonus depending on how many bowmaster traits you have traiting 3 bm vs 4bm is only a 10% decrease.
the difference in induction times will depend on how many trapper & bm & huntsmen traits you use having 4bm it is likely you are traiting deep concentration for power and ruining line bonuses.
2) barbed arrow bleed legacy rofl it has nothing to do with the amount of dmg you do if you can keep the bleed up every 20s you can do it every 20s
3) power consumption isn't managed if you are getting fed by a lm. since you are traiting 4 bm i find it highly doubtful you aren't taking a lot of power from lm. with 1060 icpr & shieldbrother and power pot every time its up i still have issues with 3bm if you claim you can manage with 4 it means you aren't using enough focus skills.

4) not really hunter 101 but boss mechanics.. before comparing a parse to other hunters make sure they are going all out, they have to arms and shieldbrother as often as you and they are getting fed as much power.
cargaraf in bg is a horrible mob to compare since time on the fight is highly dependent on the strat you use and for other hunters they are likely holding back so aggro sticks to you & may be switching to morgaraf to keep morale even etc.
I'd suggest the fell beast on lieutenant fight if you want to parse pure dps as the power feedback will eliminate the power inequality introduced by loremasters.

5) last if you want to show 1 stance does more dmg than another run both 1 per parse in close to identical circumstances (time out 5 minutes of the fight and be sure oathbreakers and to arms are the same).
i won't disagree with the premise strength does do more dmg than precision but you should specify how many bm traits, how long a fight and how much power you are fed. I can't think of anything besides lieutenant fight where power isn't an issue for hunters.
i have made hunters parse the fell beast portion and while strength is ahead of precision for dmg the difference isn't as high as you might expect. 4bm vs. 3 bm. is in my opinion a better comparison but really it depends on how people want to play so while i believe 1 is superior to the other i'm not about to push people to change or even say which one to trait since it makes spotting noobs easy.

[Aidus]

I thought he was in Solstice, but you're right he did mention BW earlier in the thread.

A my.lotro profile or just a character name would still be swell.

Amen!

I love looking at other builds, I helps me klnow what jewellry and such I am still missing and also consider different builds for situations.

[Leadfingers]

He isn't disputing the induction time on the skills but your choice of wording. You trait either Bowmaster or Huntsman; you can't trait Precision or Strength as they are stances and not trait lines. You also get the maximum induction bonus at 4 Huntsman, not 'full' (or 5) Huntsman traits.

It's a bit nitpicky, but that's what he's saying. I wasn't worried about it cause you play on a EU server and English may or may not be your first language.

It's not a matter of being "nitpicky". It's the difference between being right and wrong. And he's wrong.

[rawlingsst7]

No, it kind of is. He was talking about the benefits of adding a 4th Huntsman trait to the 3 he already had, without mentioning them. He just assumed we knew he already had Fast Draw/Resolute Aim/Strong Draw or whatever. So the benefit *for him* to add a 4th Blue would be an additional -10% inductions, when everybody else was talking about the cumulative benefits of the trait line.

You can see in the new, OP Version 3.0 that he's still rolling all the stance and trait line effects together.

[Leadfingers]

I kinda disagree. When you accuse someone of being nitpicky, the connotation is that the difference that you're talking about is minute, or un-important. In this case, it's CLEARLY VERY important.


For example...I'm logged in right now, and I actually can't see a way to get Improved Swift Bow to 1.5 seconds at all. I'm 3-0-4 traited, but don't have Fast Draw equipped. My ISP is 1.6 seconds, and the only way I can see to lower it is to use Fast Draw and drop it to 1.4.

Is there another way to get to 1.5? Or his Mr YesMaam just *completely* full of ****?

[EV4D]

For years the forums have said precision is better than strength. You hit more, you use less power and you have faster inductions. This post originally began as you will read below as a rant, complaining that hunters were in fail stances which was based on one simple fail argument that it was 25% more raw damage. After dealing with these hunters on the forums, the game has brought new meaning for me. The largest class population on hunters and it would be extremley sad if they were being fed false information. I'm here to paste damage tables on both stances to prove to this forum that S:S is better than P:S in all situations except for 1) Times where you need to use endurance (Durchest). Or 2) Times you want to hit accuratley with rediculous dread (LT).

By using the proper skills, using pots power is fairly easy to deal with. In the first parse below because I was tanking I was unable to use strength of the earth nor was the LM throwing me power constantly. This shows power possibilities.

The difference between strength and precision.
*************************
S:S
25% Damage
40% power cost
30% damage threat
*************************
P:S
Inductions 0.1 seconds faster
+1 Focus every 10 seconds
Hit chances greatly increased
*************************

I will prove overtime that power, using the right skills can be controlled. That agro, regardless of which mob it is can be handled, and that even if you occasionally miss the DPS will put P:S in the dark age. This is my goal and I will accuratley copy paste starting today parses starting with S:S followed by P:S. Wether you believe me or not, or take the time to add make sense of the numbers listed is your personal choice. The true information will be available to you.



Below is my first parse that I could find, it's not quite the one I was hoping for so I'll make a new one next time I raid this week.

Instance:
Place: BG
Mob: Cargaraf

Me: Hunter
Stance: Strength
Rad: 115
Bow: Induction crit, no other damage legacies.
Bosses health 500k+
My damage 230k
2 Other hunters were DPSing as well as random LM damage.

Name=========== Damage================ DPS============ =====Healing======= KBs======= Inc. Damage
You ============226668 ===============226668.0(no duration listed) =5855 =========1 ========151462
Cargaraf =========151462 ==============151462.0(no duration listed)=== 0========== 0========= 223698

Ability ==============Total=========== === Min====================== Max=================== Count
Pen shot============ 19658 =============326 ======================1431 ====================32
Default attk ==========47192 =============141 ======================713 ====================159
Swift bow ============51711 =============175 =====================1828 ====================102
Burning arrow ==========8652 =============197 ======================1110 ====================21
Attack ===============36699 =============38 ======================297 =====================323
Quick shot ============45801 =============205============== ======= 1143 =====================112
Rain of arrow ===========928 ==============415 ======================513 =====================2
Merci shot =============15027 ============783 ======================2505 =====================12
Healing ================5855 =============948 =====================3813 ======================3

Why this parse is a good comparison:
Max dread in lotro
Boss higher level mob
Long fight
DPS race/hard on power
The boss was beating on me hampering my DPS the whole fight which makes the interrupting of inductions a fair comparison.

Please view page 7 for the full notepad log.

QFT - since the OP just added all this stuff on 4/7 (might as well keep track of the changes....)