An Ettenmoors Blog: May 19th, 2010

[TraylorTrash]

Beyond that... A previous game I learned... Red = Dead... plain and simple...


[/quote]


SWG??

[TraylorTrash]

Beyond that... A previous game I learned... Red = Dead... plain and simple...





SWG??

[Raiffe]

Beyond that... A previous game I learned... Red = Dead... plain and simple...





SWG??

Yes that's the one

[leekofthewood]

It's open PvP, there are no gentlemans agreements, no collusion, no honor amongst advesaries...

If I'm on my Warg, and you are a Freep, it is my duty to be sure you die... or, by actions I do, insure your death is forthcoming.

Open or closed PVP, there will always be gentlemen's agreements and honor amongst adversaries. Play how you like, I'll play how I like. I dont hate any of my opponents enough or want my points so badly that I'll throw those two things completely out the window.

P.S. This is coming from a three year SWG (Starsider) Elder Jedi with a perfect saber. I left that game for Landroval and I thought I had left those attitudes behind. I wish they would stay in Lucasland.

[Raiffe]

Open or closed PVP, there will always be gentlemen's agreements and honor amongst adversaries. Play how you like, I'll play how I like. I dont hate any of my opponents enough or want my points so badly that I'll throw those two things completely out the window.

P.S. This is coming from a three year SWG (Starsider) Elder Jedi with a perfect saber. I left that game for Landroval and I thought I had left those attitudes behind. I wish they would stay in Lucasland.

Like or dislike has zero to do with it, and hate doesn't even enter the equation. I've already gone over how the points are meaningless in the scheme of things.

It's a business, nothing personal, I'm there to kill freeps, it's my business and business is good.

[Thane9]

The point of war is to kill your enemy. It should be done as efficiently and effectively as possible. I have no clue why people cry about other people playing the game to win.

Hello Kitty MMO is that way...

Beyond that... A previous game I learned... Red = Dead... plain and simple...

It's open PvP, there are no gentlemans agreements, no collusion, no honor amongst advesaries...

If I'm on my Warg, and you are a Freep, it is my duty to be sure you die... or, by actions I do, insure your death is forthcoming.

The thing is, I do have a sense of honor, and it's a "Gamer PvP honor"... I love to PvP I love to beat you... I do not mind if I lose, I learn from it and try to do better the next time, numbers, ratings, xp, inf all that stuff, is nothing more than secondary to destroying my enemy or by my actions making sure my enemy is destroyed.

You just quoted me. The ONLY thing I said in this thread is the "this is war" part. I never said anything else. How is that not clear?

Kill the enemy. If you cannot kill them alone, then get help. Make them die.

Like or dislike has zero to do with it, and hate doesn't even enter the equation. I've already gone over how the points are meaningless in the scheme of things.

It's a business, nothing personal, I'm there to kill freeps, it's my business and business is good.

You guys should be ETERNALLY thankful not everyone plays the game thinking this way.

And it sickens me that more and more players ARE thinking this way.

Let me paint you a picture...

Assume everyone thinks this way.

What do you do?

You log in, you sit 1 step in front of your one shots with EVERY other person on your side.

You do not move.

IF you get the pop buff, you and everyone on your side logs off.

If nothing comes to you to die...then you wait. If nothing still comes to you to die, then you wait more.

NEVER leaving the one shots.
Never leaving 100% of your ENTIRE side.
Never doing anything but killing what can be killed with ZERO risk.

IF, IF you somehow determine you have 10:1 odds in your favour, you may step out and do some PvE hoping to gank anything that moves after you've wiped the map. But as soon as those odds slip to 5:1 it's back to the one shots.

But if BOTH sides and ALL players think this way then no one would go anywhere.

IT'S A GAME!!! WE'RE SUPPOSED TO CHALLENGE EACH OTHER!! Not just win through numbers and 100% lockdowns over and over and over.

[Olympic]

LOL here we go again.

[Thane9]

LOL here we go again.

Laugh all you want. it was happening yesterday.

Most of the creeps were all in one group. They'd hit any undefended PvE point they could find. Isen flip flopped multiple times, some OPs fell, but they weren't interested in pushing anything where there were any freeps on track, and they weren't interested in open field fighting, and they weren't splitting up.

Meanwhile the freeps acted like a bunch of mother hens terrified that the creeps might touch one of their eggs. It was a near continual update on Lugs, TA, TR as they sat in two seperate raids watching their keeps.

I was on for 3 hours before heading out to PvE a bit and I had 3 fights in that time. ONE of which was a situation on the Lugs yard where me and 9 freeps FINALLY pushed out into the creeps who had pulled the northern wandering guards. They had ~12.

No creeps died. One freep died and the other 8 ran back to Lugs.

I died 12:1 shortly after.

Too many people are thinking that living is winning out there, or that only by huge numerical advantage can a fight even be entered.

It's really frustrating.

We saw a LOT of keeps flip blue, red, blue and red again yesterday and in MOST cases they were facerolls.

IMHO the keeps exist to facilitate PvMP. They aren't the PvMP goal.

Why? They're NOT PvMP. By the definition of "taking a keep" you are killing a NPC. It's PvE.

If there's no PvMP required to take a keep, or if the taking of the keep isn't used to give you a chance at better PvMP then it's just a PvE excercize.

So YAY to all the creeps and freeps who won PvE yesterday. But there are 39 other zones where people can go to do that in this game.

[Radardog]

IT'S A GAME!!! WE'RE SUPPOSED TO CHALLENGE EACH OTHER!! Not just win through numbers and 100% lockdowns over and over and over.

I've never understood the 'THIS IS WAR I HATE YOU DIE' mentality.

I mean, it sort of sounds like you're more looking to join the military than to have a friendly competition.

That's what other sports and hobbies are right? Just friendly competitions?

PS. This excludes Nandir. He must die.

[Olympic]

Laugh all you want. it was happening yesterday.

Most of the creeps were all in one group. They'd hit any undefended PvE point they could find. Isen flip flopped multiple times, some OPs fell, but they weren't interested in pushing anything where there were any freeps on track, and they weren't interested in open field fighting, and they weren't splitting up.

Meanwhile the freeps acted like a bunch of mother hens terrified that the creeps might touch one of their eggs. It was a near continual update on Lugs, TA, TR as they sat in two seperate raids watching their keeps.

I was on for 3 hours before heading out to PvE a bit and I had 3 fights in that time. ONE of which was a situation on the Lugs yard where me and 9 freeps FINALLY pushed out into the creeps who had pulled the northern wandering guards. They had ~12.

No creeps died. One freep died and the other 8 ran back to Lugs.

I died 12:1 shortly after.

Too many people are thinking that living is winning out there, or that only by huge numerical advantage can a fight even be entered.

It's really frustrating.

We saw a LOT of keeps flip blue, red, blue and red again yesterday and in MOST cases they were facerolls.

IMHO the keeps exist to facilitate PvMP. They aren't the PvMP goal.

Why? They're NOT PvMP. By the definition of "taking a keep" you are killing a NPC. It's PvE.

If there's no PvMP required to take a keep, or if the taking of the keep isn't used to give you a chance at better PvMP then it's just a PvE excercize.

So YAY to all the creeps and freeps who won PvE yesterday. But there are 39 other zones where people can go to do that in this game.

I just have to say you got it right this time. LOL at the mother hen comment.

[Raiffe]

You guys should be ETERNALLY thankful not everyone plays the game thinking this way.

And it sickens me that more and more players ARE thinking this way.

Let me paint you a picture...

Assume everyone thinks this way.

What do you do?

You log in, you sit 1 step in front of your one shots with EVERY other person on your side.

You do not move.

IF you get the pop buff, you and everyone on your side logs off.

If nothing comes to you to die...then you wait. If nothing still comes to you to die, then you wait more.

NEVER leaving the one shots.
Never leaving 100% of your ENTIRE side.
Never doing anything but killing what can be killed with ZERO risk.

IF, IF you somehow determine you have 10:1 odds in your favour, you may step out and do some PvE hoping to gank anything that moves after you've wiped the map. But as soon as those odds slip to 5:1 it's back to the one shots.

But if BOTH sides and ALL players think this way then no one would go anywhere.

IT'S A GAME!!! WE'RE SUPPOSED TO CHALLENGE EACH OTHER!! Not just win through numbers and 100% lockdowns over and over and over.

Luc, ease up on the self-righteous speak. You're gonna burst an artery or something.

Read my words... I do not care, I don't let personal get into it, it's business. You're red, you're dead.

I don't hang by one shots, I don't look to gank someone, just because I don't play on one side of the pendulum DOES NOT mean I play explicitly on the other. Take off the blinders and look at it from this perspective.

I don't care about the odds, I don't care if I'm in a group and we run you over like the Coors Silver Bullet train. I don't care if I solo you, or fight you and 10 others... You're my content, my marbles, my NPC with a better AI. You're on the other side.

This "you" is your toon, all I see is your toon, I don't know you, and I feel nothing one way or the other towards you as a person when I'm in game. I just feel that when I see a Freep the freep must die.

Said it before, it's business, nothing personal.

[Faisal]

Luc, ease up on the self-righteous speak. You're gonna burst an artery or something.

Read my words... I do not care, I don't let personal get into it, it's business. You're red, you're dead.

I don't hang by one shots, I don't look to gank someone, just because I don't play on one side of the pendulum DOES NOT mean I play explicitly on the other. Take off the blinders and look at it from this perspective.

I don't care about the odds, I don't care if I'm in a group and we run you over like the Coors Silver Bullet train. I don't care if I solo you, or fight you and 10 others... You're my content, my marbles, my NPC with a better AI. You're on the other side.

This "you" is your toon, all I see is your toon, I don't know you, and I feel nothing one way or the other towards you as a person when I'm in game. I just feel that when I see a Freep the freep must die.

Said it before, it's business, nothing personal.

Hehehehe.

[Thane9]

Said it before, it's business, nothing personal.

And that's fine that it's not personal.

But I'm suggesting that it's NOT fine that you're seeing it as "business".

This isn't business. It's not war. It's not a job. It's a GAME.

And a game should come with challenge and competititon.

Endlessly mowing down groups half the size of your group just isn't fun. It's definitely not fun for the smaller group and it SHOULDN"T be fun for the larger group.

But people who look at it as "business" probably think it's fun to be the larger group.

And IMHO that's severely detrimental to the overall gameplay, and ultimately will hurt EVERYONE's experience.

[PF-Grumpy]

This excludes Nandir. He must die.

I agree.



[./thread]

[Thane9]

I just have to say you got it right this time. LOL at the mother hen comment.

Don't get me wrong, the creeps were no better.

They were very clearly running 90+% all together, because when we'd see them they were in a big group, but when they weren't around there wasn't a creep to be found.

And I'd get tracked at LC for instance and then wait...and wait...and wait...and they'd never come. Even though they just flipped Isen. Why? becuase a freep was there.

They hit SoP at one point and Legen got facerolled. Then they ran away. not to take LC, not to ambush freeps riding there after it was called out. Just to leave.

And guess what? The freeps didn't have big numbers on them. It was fairly evenly matched.

A lot of people on BOTH SIDES were either running from or hiding from the fight.

[romoen]

And that's fine that it's not personal.

But I'm suggesting that it's NOT fine that you're seeing it as "business".

This isn't business. It's not war. It's not a job. It's a GAME.

And a game should come with challenge and competititon.

Endlessly mowing down groups half the size of your group just isn't fun. It's definitely not fun for the smaller group and it SHOULDN"T be fun for the larger group.

But people who look at it as "business" probably think it's fun to be the larger group.

And IMHO that's severely detrimental to the overall gameplay, and ultimately will hurt EVERYONE's experience.

Then every single time you've killed an unskilled player, whether it be green, blue, red or magenta you've robbed them of challenge and competition. The way you talk, people should file paperwork before each fight, find out their pros and cons of their abilities and agendas and decide on paper if they're a good match for combat. If so, the green flag is given, if no? You walk away.

You'd never play a game like that. Never.

Not everything is so black and white. I wish you'd be more open-minded to the possibility of people playing differently than you yet having the same goal in mind. There are very few goals out there yet an un-countable amount of actions.

[Meijha]

Red=Dead was the prevailing thought in DAoC and that was MOSTLY the way I played it. I mainted that ideology when I first came here, but over time it changed a bit. There are some ppl/situations where I will just go my own way; or even give a /dance1 and not attack.

I certainly do not blame or comdemn anyone for attacking the enemy though, and even when I destealth to /dance1 and get tractored I don't resent ppl for that. It's a war zone after all.

[Raiffe]

And that's fine that it's not personal.

But I'm suggesting that it's NOT fine that you're seeing it as "business".

This isn't business. It's not war. It's not a job. It's a GAME.

And a game should come with challenge and competititon.

Endlessly mowing down groups half the size of your group just isn't fun. It's definitely not fun for the smaller group and it SHOULDN"T be fun for the larger group.

But people who look at it as "business" probably think it's fun to be the larger group.

And IMHO that's severely detrimental to the overall gameplay, and ultimately will hurt EVERYONE's experience.

What can I say, I like bassackwards life, my job is my game, and my game is my business. I get paid to play my game and I pay to do my business.

Actually endlessly mowing down groups of equal or greater size is fun. Mowing down smaller groups endlessly is like foreplay, just preps you for the main event.

[PF-Grumpy]

You're red, you're dead.

But, I'm Blue? You are red. And to you, I am yellow.





I think some of you are missing the point of this. You can do what you want to win, just don't be a **ck about it. I'll use Ophy's old example of two dudes playing checkers.

Originally posted by Romoen here
Bob's playing a game of checkers. He first plays against Steve and Steve wins, shakes Bob's hand and says "good game, we should play again some oher time."

Then Bob plays against Rick. Rick wins, picks up Bob's checkers that he'd taken and starts to throw them at Bob's face as hard as he can one by one while laughing and telling Bob how much he sucked.

End result? Bob lost two games of checkers but who the **** cares? Rick's a piece of ****.

[Raiffe]

But, I'm Blue? You are red. And to you, I am yellow.





I think some of you are missing the point of this. You can do what you want to win, just don't be a **ck about it.

250% agree

[PF-Grumpy]

250% agree

Don't give me any rep, I am clearly above it.

[Olympic]

Don't give me any rep, I am clearly above it.

I did +1 just to spite you.

[Raiffe]

Don't give me any rep, I am clearly above it.

Didn't even occur to me.

[PF-Grumpy]

Didn't even occur to me.

Thanks, Rick.

[romoen]

Sure, he quotes me and gets all the credit for it. He's just like Luc!