You broke your toys creeps

[Lordchurchill]

Not taking anything away from your analysis, but don't you champs/guardians/captains have "sprints" that get you thru it?

Sprint wont get ya thru poo.

[Aedon]

Truth. And just so everyone is crystal clear on this point.

I'm JUST as adamant about these things when they happen the other way around too.

This is NOT about creeps or freeps to me. It's about PEOPLE who are playing a game. And the ever growing number of people who seem more interested in not playing competatively. ON BOTH SIDES.

---

And yeah, ninjaing with numbers is bad stuff.

However, I have been involved in ninja's when things (numbers) were uncertain because the creep response time is just so ridiculous and can lead to really bad things from time to time.

I hate keep ninja's period. Yeah, I know that when numbers are against your side, and a keep can at least give some measure of support and safety it may be seen as an only option.

For me, seeing the numbers dwindle freepside is discouraging and a bit painful. Here, Tah and I see the same issue. We feel we need to flip over to help the side in most need of support, but our hearts lie with the tribes we are a part of creepside.

Civility from some segments of the creep side is pretty much nil when it comes to their dealings with the freeps. Yes, they are our foe, and what we are there to combat. But I have heard more name calling of those pushed back to the steps of GV then I care to hear any more. So much so that I lost my patience in creep ooc last night and made my displeasure known.

I am not sure what the answers are to what is happening now. But I do know that Landy PVMP is changing, and not for the better.

Infamy is a great thing to gain for a creep. But for me, when gained at the lack of respect for ones foe, there is no number high enough.

[Olympic]

Sprint wont get ya thru poo.

OK just checking.

<note to self, increase weaver numbers in TWH>

[Jamers]

Sprint wont get ya thru poo.

Champion sprint does... it sets your run speed to a fixed percentage.

[PF-Grumpy]

Sprint wont get ya thru poo.

Guard's does.

[Feycat]

Not to mention that poo is VERY buggy and nearly every raid I've been in in the past month SOMEONE has had to log and come back to get rid of it permanently attaching to them.

The same thing happens with tar. As well as several LM fire dots. Any time we get into a major encounter with any raid with an LM, someone always has to relog to get rid of it. I had no idea that webbing bugged out the same way, actually.

[Olympic]

OK SO IT DOES!!!

So, what is the problem again?

[PF-Grumpy]

We don't like it. We prefer to save our sprints for FLEEEEEEEEEEEING.

[Jamers]

OK SO IT DOES!!!

So, what is the problem again?

The major issue is that the slows can be kept up longer than the sprints can be kept up. That's something that needs to be looked at in my opinion. Melee on both sides need a few more advantages, I think. Just my opinion.

[lebleh]

OK SO IT DOES!!!

So, what is the problem again?

There are 40 spiders we have one sprint?
Cooldown for **** is 1 minute ours is 3? So 120 ****s for one sprint. You do the maths of how often we're slowed compared to being Speedy Gonzales.

[Olympic]

We don't like it. We prefer to save our sprints for FLEEEEEEEEEEEING.

Well there you go lol, though I don't see YOU "fleeing" all that often.

But if people would use their sprints to charge...yeah that would be pretty darn effective...

You betcha!!!

[Olympic]

There are 40 spiders we have one sprint?

How long does your sprint last? I'm sure its long enough to get thru spider webs for 40m and hit the creep group.

[Thane9]

It wasn't meant to be patronizing, it was meant to help. Believe what you all like.

.

No offense here. I know we've bickered back and forth more than our share over the years. And I know it's likely that most things I type are not going to be read in the most favourable light but please dont take this personal.

What makes you think you have some insight to freep play that we don't have?

When quite possibly the most experienced players in the game are logging off, or telling you that you're wrong, or choosing to behave in certain ways don't you think that maybe...just MAYBE that it's not as easy as you suggest?

I'm known as a soloer.

But I've raided, in terms of hours played, more than likely 80% of the server.

Leekae is NOT one to run from a fight. This is one of the servers most aggressive raid leaders who has been out there for years slugging it out on BOTH sides of the moors, with multiple toons.

We're not nubs.

If there were some even slightly fun way to combat those odds when the creeps insist on swarming and massing up WE WOULD DO IT.

I just can't fathom why some people are so insistant that freeps are just "doing it wrong".

If there are 18 freeps there is NO action available that can counter 30 creeps who are traveling together and map in or go to any freep location called out.

There's just no good option.

Now you can suggest we may get more kills doing x or y or z....but the fact remains as long as a side with numbers refuses to split up...there's absolutely NO force available to the side without numbers.

Should turbine fix this? ABSOLUTELY. And I've spelled out exacly how in some rather minor ways they could help.

But in the meantime...we as players NEED to be willing to seek out and engage in competative and risky engagements instead of just seeking faceroll and renown/infamy opportunities.

[Lordchurchill]

That was my point you can pop sprint but the poo lasts longer. Then your just out of healing range and still slowed. Under current mechanics melees are screwed in ranged fights.

[Lordchurchill]

*nods* Sure was. I filed a report as well. That had to be the worst I have ever seen.

Enlighten me.....

[Jamers]

That was my point you can pop sprint but the poo lasts longer. Then your just out of healing range and still slowed. Under current mechanics melees are screwed in ranged fights.

I agree with your overall point, but technically the slows (from spiders) don't last longer, they can merely be reapplied quicker than sprints can be used again. A small discrepancy, I know.

[Olympic]

What makes you think you have some insight to freep play that we don't have?

Because a lot of us are ranked Freep players with a lot of experience ourselves that play it different than you do.

Her insight is based on "our" perspective, not yours.

Our win condition is different than yours.

When we went out for a few nights we did it "our way" not "your way" and had the success we were looking for.

So...her insight is based on her experience combined with the differing "philosophy" of several ranked freeps that don't play the fight as you do.

There is a reason why Simonmark/Grishtandush leads one of the better freep raids out there, and he's a "creep".

So lets not get mired down in the "you aren't ranked high like I am so you don't know what you are talking about" approach.

I've led raids on both sides just as much as anyone else on the server, if you want to pretend I don't have any experience so be it.

[Nasanniz]

Good post.

I did watch the White Hand drop pull LC two nights ago when freeps were outnumbered 3:1...but agree totally that ninjas with numbers is fail.

Yes, I called for that drop-pull because A) we'd just started rolling and had no confirmed numbers of how many Freeps were on the map and B) I had 9 people in my raid and didn't expect backup.

I didn't consider you 3 Freeps a defending force. I considered you scouts for the half-raid of other Freeps that were supposedly hanging out near EC/STAB according to /ooc.

That's all.

[Lordchurchill]

I agree with your overall point, but technically the slows (from spiders) don't last longer, they can merely be reapplied quicker than sprints can be used again. A small discrepancy, I know.

Honestly as much as we all complain in even number fights the fighting can be outstanding. Two tweaks would make it even better IMHO. Put the dev who decided CJ stuns was a good idea in the gulag, then rewind back to how it was previously. Adjust spider poo to either a hefty cd or lesser penalty. This would allow melees to be viable again which would lead to defilers/wls getting harrassed as they should. I think this would have a domino affect on the whole dynamic of every engagement.

[lebleh]

Honestly as much as we all complain in even number fights the fighting can be outstanding. Two tweaks would make it even better IMHO. Put the dev who decided CJ stuns was a good idea in the gulag, then rewind back to how it was previously. Adjust spider poo to either a hefty cd or lesser penalty. This would allow melees to be viable again which would lead to defilers/wls getting harrassed as they should. I think this would have a domino affect on the whole dynamic of every engagement.

I'd be content with spider poo having a lesser radius and CJ being potable.

[Feycat]

No offense here. I know we've bickered back and forth more than our share over the years. And I know it's likely that most things I type are not going to be read in the most favourable light but please dont take this personal.

What makes you think you have some insight to freep play that we don't have?

I guess, like Tarbosh says, because when we went out there - with very different enjoyment/winning parameters, apparently - and played, we were drastically outnumbered, we got rolled left and right, we even got to face TWH since many of our players don't have Moors-ready freeps, we enjoyed ourselves. We got kills, we got some ranks, and most importantly, we got to fight pretty much all night long. To ME, that was all I wanted, to get out there and mix it up in some faces and have some epic battles. And I found a lot of fun battles when I ran with Rashka's raid too, so it wasn't just being in my comfort zone with my own peeps.

Like I said in my post, I'm sure the nights I've been out there - on my healer and on my anon freep - don't add up to your experience. But I think you guys are becoming mired down in habits that aren't helping. That's all.

PS: the comparison to door-to-door christians actually hurt my feelings, Didnt :P

[Olympic]

I'd be content with spider poo having a lesser radius and CJ being potable.

Do you live in Paris?

[lebleh]

Do you live in Paris?

Oui mon sire.

[PF-Grumpy]

PS: the comparison to door-to-door christians actually hurt my feelings, Didnt :P

Oh stop being silly. It was just an analogy to explain why your help might be seen as patronizing. [Edit] But I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.

[Thane9]

How long does your sprint last? I'm sure its long enough to get thru spider webs for 40m and hit the creep group.

45s with a prime swap LI weapon.

But then the champs get through, and where's their support? The champs explode. I'm often lucky to get ONE hit off before I'm CJd.

AND then our sprint is back on its 5m cooldown. 5 MINUTES. Just until we get another chance to run in and die again. Thankfully the rezzers can't often reach us so we burn a lot of that time getting back to the fight.