Moors: The Way I See It

[Zyndrig]

Great post Cal.

I've always thought a PvP trait line would be nice for freeps as opposed to the bonuses you suggested because morale, power, resistances, crits, etc can all be aquired through gearing or specing certain ways. I played my Champ to R8 without ever playing creep. My goal was R9 but I decided the grind was not worth it to get (at the time) the only black horse in the game which was my only incentive. I then made the switch to creep - and I keep playing because of the incentives for each rank.

The following is an example of what I would want for possible traits in a Moors trait line which would also carry over to PvE zones - some of the incentives I'm listing are designed towards PvE to promote freeps to go to the moors.

Class - Champion
Rank 1 - no bonus
Rank 2 - no bonus
Rank 3 - either no bonus or Turbine can put their +10% infamy here
Rank 4 - +5% run speed (in combat and out) One of the most frustrating parts of playing a Champ is that getting in range to do anything can be difficult if sprint is down. I know some creep classes get movement speed buffs that I believe apply to in-combat also but I could be wrong.)
Rank 5 - +0.5 meters to the range of all strikes skills (this is to make our melee range comparable to a Reavers range)
Rank 6 - Similar to the creep corruptions, give Champs two options; Damage for Health, Health for Damage
Rank 7 - Hedge applies a 5s disarm to the target
Rank 8 - +15% chance for each attack of Feral Strikes to remove a corruption (obviously geared toward PvE)
Rank 9 - Morale requirement to use Fight On! is removed, now useable at full health.
Rank 10 - A strikes line critical hit now generates 1 Fervour
Rank 11 - Red Haze activates Flurry for 30s
Rank 12 - Battle Shout applies a 3s stun
Rank 13 - Continuous Blood Rage now has a reflective buff, on any damage reflect 20 damage OR 50% chance to reflect 20 damage if 100% would be OP (similar to a Reavers Blood of Fire)
Rank 14 -
Rank 15 - The -30% incoming healing modifier is removed for Fervour

I actually struggled to come up with enough traits to fill all the ranks (hence Rank 14 being empty and some of the bonuses not being all that appealing). Anyway, each trait is available to barter delving stones for as you rank (similar to creeps barter methods) but freeps are limited to slotting 4 at a time. I don't believe that 4 of these would make the Champ class OP but improve it for the moors and PvE alike. I know I would be playing my Champ in the moors again if incentives like these were available.

So, just my 2 cents. I'm sure we could each come up with bonuses we would like to see for specific classes. Happy hunting!

[Nisroc00]

Cool memory, bro. Tell it again.

lol i meant sprint

[huricanebrew]

Honestly, I think Turbine should spend more time bettering PvE. I mean, why even waste time on something as stupid as PvP? Every single dollar for development should be spent on Freeps, right? PvP'ers have been happy with the same content for 4 years, I'm sure they can last a little longer.... Right?






lulz

[Thorandril]

Honestly, I think Turbine should spend more time bettering PvE. I mean, why even waste time on something as stupid as PvP? Every single dollar for development should be spent on Freeps, right? PvP'ers have been happy with the same content for 4 years, I'm sure they can last a little longer.... Right?






lulz

Somehow I imagine 1% of the revenue is still less than what's being spent currently. And if it's more I ain't seeing it or it's in upkeep/maintenance of servers, which runs awfully counter to the continuing rollbacks and other junk.

EDIT: Cool suggestions Zydrig. I'm used to seeing people suggesting imbalanced changes, that's not too bad.

[huricanebrew]

[QUOTE=Thorandril;5265052]Somehow I imagine 1% of the revenue is still less than what's being spent currently. And if it's more I ain't seeing it or it's in upkeep/maintenance of servers, which runs awfully counter to the continuing rollbacks and other junk.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with you, from what I have seen so far. There hasn't been much change since the last time I played...

[Putnal08]

Simply terrible...

If you wish for my reasons, ask Blondie. He can return to be my secretary.



just kidding

[Darkiron]

I think it is inherently foolish to tie a PVP set to PVEing in a PVP zone no less. I mean, we have to PVE too much as is, to have decent gear. If I want to PVP, it's beacuse i want to escape doldrums of PVE and fight other players for the pure action of it. If i want to PVE, i'll just run Gwibers/Giants for the 1000th time or the Survival of the Barrow Downs for the 500th. On top of that, the items needed for the gear will take an insane amount of time to farm (you already mentioned it). But no worries guys...you can keep this set for the next 2 years, when it's completely useless and outdated. Also, I know that i'm being hypocritical about complaining about pvp sets that require pve, while suggesting hard pvp rank rewards for pve. However, I think this is the best solution for the withering freep population and the best way of rewarding freeps that do put in the time.

well said i agree with this make the set's be tied to rank instead of costing stones. don't agree with adding buffs due to rank..as rank 4 potions "have a chance" to heal 150 morale more than a critted lvl 35 freep potion. compared to a lvl 65 1100 to 1200 healing, just to point out one advantage. best creep potion atm 920-960.... considering no new potions or food has come out for creeps in MoM. and creeps do not have better healing. more easier to get more healing but not better. with free peeps self heal skills, captains on defeat heals etc. I would also like to see a buff potion that gives more resistance to crowd control mezz/stuns/and riddle and damage types. upgrade existing potions to be current with a lvl 65 conflict instead of a lvl 50 one.

[Gladgilrian]

@ Cal Goods points, the costs to get stones is very high, sometimes I just can't resist trolling Stuns, he's a good debater So I will agree, probably should do away with the brilliant stones all together and make them the same costs as before, many Freep classes can solo for the lums. No more corpse jumps from me, your pentence is ovah, so shall it be written, so shall it be done

@ Zydrig Great ideas, I would add morale costs reductions for CBR. Would these be usable outside the moors?

[Wyrestein]

so shall it be written, so shall it be done ?

So say we all.

[Coger_Dark]

@ Cal Goods points, the costs to get stones is very high, sometimes I just can't resist trolling Stuns, he's a good debater So I will agree, probably should do away with the brilliant stones all together and make them the same costs as before, many Freep classes can solo for the lums. No more corpse jumps from me, your pentence is ovah, so shall it be written, so shall it be done

@ Zydrig Great ideas, I would add morale costs reductions for CBR. Would these be usable outside the moors?

I would assume at least the rnk 15 buff, seeing as fervour has no inc healing penalty in the moors ( I heard a rumor they were doing away with the inc healing penalty in pve with the update). Also the ferocious strikes corruption removale is PVE oriented. It would be cool If creeps got corruption self buffs at rank 9+, say on defeat skills (i.e. At rank 9 reavers purchase a improved glory in victory (not the trait) that adds +15% inc healing corruption when used, and could be removed as any pve corruption)(weaver self heal would add a -10% inc dmg corruption etc). It would make freeps utilize more of their skills, ones that are familiar to them in pve, and would make things more interesting overall imo.

[Gladgilrian]

I really like the idea of corruptions, I thought it should have been implimented when MoM came out.

[slyfir20]

I really like the idea of corruptions, I thought it should have been implimented when MoM came out.

At rank 15 creeps should get LT style corruptions with 40m aura range. Pop 1 corruption get moved into the next one.. =)

[huricanebrew]

Why stop there?! While were at it, Creeps should just get a "Win Button" at rank 15! Why even try anymore when you have your win button? Make Freeps bow before you!!!one1!!!

[Darkiron]

1)Things need to be updated....since we had rank 2 corruptions back before MoM back when lvl 50 was highest level.
"In my opinion" corruptions should be up to rank 4 (rank based to equip). as i stated before potions/food etc should be more equal in range. buff foods would be nice eg. food that adds DPS or outgoing/incoming healing etc.
2)would be nice if buff potions that cost delving stones to last "on Defeat" otherwise...i don't use them in pvp or i am farming stones every hour or so.
3)buff potion that act like SI same duration
4) potions to give an extra % bonus to resist riddle/mezz/stuns lasting on defeat too.
5)every expansion "should" add at the very least 1 extra corruption slot.

would be nice but will not happen if some crowd control would only work in pve would even out the amount of stun lock lolzdps that happens to my creeps :P

[badkarma44]

...sometimes I just can't resist trolling Stuns, he's a good debater ...

...would you say he is a master?

[OGsam]

...would you say he is a master?

That's certainly debatable.

[Gladgilrian]

Why stop there?! While were at it, Creeps should just get a "Win Button" at rank 15! Why even try anymore when you have your win button? Make Freeps bow before you!!!one1!!!

Why not? Most Freep classes/races have their I Win buttons.

[Thorandril]

If you're implying that every creep doesn't have access to one that's infinitely better I'm literally speechless

[22Acacia]

1)Things need to be updated....since we had rank 2 corruptions back before MoM back when lvl 50 was highest level.
"In my opinion" corruptions should be up to rank 4 (rank based to equip). as i stated before potions/food etc should be more equal in range. buff foods would be nice eg. food that adds DPS or outgoing/incoming healing etc.
2)would be nice if buff potions that cost delving stones to last "on Defeat" otherwise...i don't use them in pvp or i am farming stones every hour or so.
3)buff potion that act like SI same duration
4) potions to give an extra % bonus to resist riddle/mezz/stuns lasting on defeat too.
5)every expansion "should" add at the very least 1 extra corruption slot.

would be nice but will not happen if some crowd control would only work in pve would even out the amount of stun lock lolzdps that happens to my creeps :P

I'd be right on board if freep traits and buffs were scaled the same way. I'm sure you know that virtues slots and trait magnitudes haven't changed since launch (freep equivalent of corruptions). Same thing for numerous freep skills. A good example is man heal: 2200-3000 morale. Big whoop in today's moors.

[OGsam]

If you're implying that every creep doesn't have access to one that's infinitely better I'm literally speechless

Creepside; soon to be the new hardmode.

[vladirenter]

really liked the post

BUT

i have a hard time swallowing your analogy of freeps getting stuck with fat kids eating sandwiches, wearing flip flops. if some simp manages to bring a toon to 65 and roll out to the moors, then the fault of player ignorance falls solely on the person. maybe people should stop taking in charity.

[CAL88]

really liked the post

BUT

i have a hard time swallowing your analogy of freeps getting stuck with fat kids eating sandwiches, wearing flip flops. if some simp manages to bring a toon to 65 and roll out to the moors, then the fault of player ignorance falls solely on the person. maybe people should stop taking in charity.

Wow. I have been calling you MYBOWGOES "WHIP", for a long time on the RAT and then got mad when everybody would target Butta's reaver. It's Thwip, but I digress.

As for a freep raid shouldn't give "charity to ingorant simps", I would disagree. Sometimes it is better to take charity and have a fighting chance at some action. I prefer sloppy action to getting rolled up to GV...resulting in no action. As for "Ignorance", we are all there at one point or another. It doesn't mean a player can't learn, get better and have some fun.

The first time i went into the moors I found myself in a WindyBear raid. I didn't know squat, but i had a blast. I learned a little at a time and now I'm in the Moors pretty regularly. My brother wasn't so fortunate on his first night. He logged into the the moors on "Black Blade Open Mic Night" with about 3 other freeps on; got killed 50+ times without a single kill. Needless to say he didn't have any fun and was probably gloriously ignorant (probably rolled into a creep zerg with his warden in full tanking spec and wondered why the creeps were harder then the mobs in the Misty Mountains), but is he a bad player or without hope? No. After about a year hiatus, I have finally got him to come out to the moors and he is having fun. What would have happened if our rolls were reversed or even worse, if we both had experienced the Black Blade challenge on our first night.

We should not be in the business of chasing new players away from the moors...either freep or creep because of their ingnorance (by this I mean a freep raid not inviting a newer player because he is ignorant, not the bb by killing someone who is ignorant). Now if they are willfully ignorant or won't listen, then thats a different matter altogether to kick them out of a raid or not inviting them into one.

On a funny note; I asked my brother who was killing him all the time his first time in the moors and the only name he could remember was a spider named "Rustysense". I didn't have the heart to tell him it was actually two different people. Also his very first kb ended up being Rustynails.

[denthalion]

im a creep, and maybe a bit of a troll so take this with a grain of salt . freeps have the advantage of power- turbine has seen to this imho, creeps have the advantage of understanding both sides of the fight very well. all creeps have freeps not so the other way around. freeps that know their class have no problems rolling right over equal numbers of creeps even high ranked ones. turbine keeps giving love to freeps(yes on the surface it would seem they gave some to creeps but much of what they gave was to nerf higher rank creeps - the ones that know how to play, although maybe i am wrong there, time will tell).it takes time to understand how pvp is different from pve. rolling a creep is a good way to start understanding pvp because you will see the perspective from the other side. try getting from r0 to r6 or r7, you will see the grass is not greener on the other side. you still need to understand the basics of how to push when to pull back, and what your toons role is in a fight, etc. and you will have to do it out of raid - you generally wont have someone telling you what do, unless you do something dumb lol. progress is slow there is no real customization or improvements that you can get beyond what everyone else has at your rank. basically a creep must learn to solo in the moors or suffer at low rank for a long time. the r8+ have been playing A LONG TIME. it is not just decent power it is a good understanding of their role in a fight. bas are punching bags up close but deadly from a distance. warg is hard to master and hats off to those who arent just freep meat. reavers die constantly but an aggressive one gets kills. spiders arent hard to kill but lay down some awful cc and dots. not even gonna talk about healer classes in comparison with the freep versions . if a person wants to learn then go creeside for a while and see if you swear more on your freep or creep lol. it takes time to learn but be aware that freeps can greatly outpower creeps if traited and geared right and played with understanding of your classes strengths and weaknesses.
i wrote this to be helpful, i am NOT uber but i try hard, and i keep coming back. i get corpse jumped get back up a try to kill that guy sometimes its fail but thats the life of a creep if you dont try hard in a fight you will languish at low rank forever. roll a creep have some fun and get frustrated and learn. see if your opinions change by looking over the fence once in a while.DONT listen to retorhic see for yourself.
die a thousand deaths but take ten thousand lives in the return

[Gladgilrian]

Denth, can't say I agree with most of what you posted, but thats not why I posted. Mix in a paragraph break here and there, use punctuation and capitalize at the beginning of sentences please. Not trolling, but no ones going to read walls of text that have absolutely no breaks in them. Imagine someone blurting out a thousand words in 10s without taking a breath, thats what your post look like. Not trying to be the grammar police either, but its painful just looking at it.

[Wyrestein]

I was excited about 3 threads having posts this morning then I realize they are all Dev Crit versions of the WALLOFTEXT finisher combo.