PvMP on Eldar (Part 4)

[Grumpyhobbit]

Since the dumbing down of the game and the move to solo play in PvE most freeps do not know how to raid anymore since the last decent raid instance was ToO which required people to co-ordinate what they were doing, then since the end game has moved to ettens as it is the only part of the game that offers some sort of challenge anymore.
They all come traited for max dps on weapons and traits, they don't understand that certain classes still need to be traited as they would for raids in PvE.
The quality of ettens freeps has diminished due to lack of skill needed in the game to get top end stuff and the lack of quick thinking to adapt to situations.

Most of the creeps have been playing for years and know each other very well so they are well organised and can adapt quicker when new people come in and give them advice (freeps ego's don't allow themselves to take advice on there class by anybody) which is why they are strong unit, they don't have any lack of skill they have learn't there class and can adapt quicker, even if turbine keeps throwing them curve balls.
You can always tell if certain creeps are new to the moors not just by rank because you can get to R9 quite quickly in the moors now but how they react to situations, this is how most freeps react.

Would like to thank Erlo for starting raids atm even though I can't get in them.

[botoo]

No wonder creeps think we disbanned as it takes us 5 min To move from gy To tir main.. Some go To ost for a quest or two... People stuck behind trees due To have been on follow the last 5 mins....

That made my day Elro I understand the frustration tho.

[Mirobelle]

I think Erlo and Grumpyhobbit (still trying to work out who that is in-game!) have hit the nail on the head.

There's just not much call for dedicated raid tactics on pve side any more and this leaves players woefully un-prepared when they come to the moors as they think they can just continue with their pve playstyle and roll over everything without thinking.
Like Grumpy said: Most creeps, or at the very least the majority of the main raiders, have been paying their creeps for a long time and many have been playing ONLY creep. They know their class, it's strengths and weaknesses, how their actions affect others and, most of all, disciplined raid tactics. When a creep raid moves it usually (there are times even on our side when it breaks down or when the lag makes it difficult - wait, sorry Odo, we don't get lag do we?) moves as one. Skills aren't thrown down in panic and raids are much, much calmer.

The insinuation that creep-side must be much easier to play because we have less skills is just offensive to be honest Odo. We have the same raid roles, the same actions to complete and the same situations to react to as freeps do but we have to do all of that with about 60% less skills. The fact that freeps have more skills means the complete opposite of what you think in that; if a freep misses a skill he/she usually has another one that does the same or very similar thing to back it up with. Look at minis for example - a mini uses bolster courage on the wrong target and gives a big heal to a raid member that doesn't need it. They can switch to the target that does need it and fire off chord of salvation and that player gets it's big heal. Now, if I'm on my defiler and I use Fell Restoration on the wrong target that's my one big heal gone and on CD for 30s. The only thing I can try to do to recover is spam small hots on the raid member that needs it and hope they are not on rat.

It's very hard, I realise, when looking at one side from the other's point of view to not be biased. It takes too long to get the freep raid together and moving and the creeps that have been standing around waiting for a fight whine that "coward freeps have disbanded". Freeps get a proper raid together because they fought a full-raid-ish number of creeps and then find nothing to fight because it turned out to be a 12 man and a load of solos and half have logged off. I for one appreciate the freep leaders who get raids together to give us something to fight. I have to say though that I was disappointed for most of last night.

Sharns raid stood outside tir waiting for the fraid to come out and fight and in the end had to chase the fraid into tir main and try to fight a fraid plus npcs and deal with all the lag that ensues with fighting in keeps. Then we had the same thing when the fraid ran into ROP and refused to come out and fight. It's all well and good coming to the forums and saying "we don't hug keeps" as has been said just a few pages ago here but when the truth is staring at you in the face then how do you reconcile that?

We try not to fight in keeps as it makes for laggy and un-even fights. I remember a couple of weeks ago we had some brilliant fights in the open at lc3 and old plains op. The lag wasn't so bad at all and neither side had to deal with npcs. I was excited as I thought if the action was going to be like this until HD it would be an awesome month. It's a shame it only lasted a couple of nights and then it went straight back to GY/BD/GV/Grams hugging.

I've got to say tho on a positive note before I finish this post. The last fight I saw before I logged last night was the 4 raid (or near enough) fight at lc3 and I really enjoyed it. It was laggy and as a healer it was really hard but there were no npcs and no running away and hugging keeps or BDs. Just some great action out in the open.
More of this please guys as it's going to get very quiet in the moors soon with HD coming out. Don't forget freeps that you may have other things to go and do when you get bored or when a new expac comes out but us dedicated creeps have the moors and nothing else.

Cheers.

[Gwyndor]

Since the dumbing down of the game and the move to solo play in PvE most freeps do not know how to raid anymore since the last decent raid instance was ToO which required people to co-ordinate what they were doing, then since the end game has moved to ettens as it is the only part of the game that offers some sort of challenge anymore.
They all come traited for max dps on weapons and traits, they don't understand that certain classes still need to be traited as they would for raids in PvE.
The quality of ettens freeps has diminished due to lack of skill needed in the game to get top end stuff and the lack of quick thinking to adapt to situations.

Most of the creeps have been playing for years and know each other very well so they are well organised and can adapt quicker when new people come in and give them advice (freeps ego's don't allow themselves to take advice on there class by anybody) which is why they are strong unit, they don't have any lack of skill they have learn't there class and can adapt quicker, even if turbine keeps throwing them curve balls.
You can always tell if certain creeps are new to the moors not just by rank because you can get to R9 quite quickly in the moors now but how they react to situations, this is how most freeps react.

Would like to thank Erlo for starting raids atm even though I can't get in them.

That is absolutely spot on. It is exactly right, unfortunately. It all began back in Moria, or somewhere around there when Turbine in their infinite wisdom responded to a whining few who were saying the 'game was too hard', 'it takes too long to rank up,' and 'I can't ever find groups', by changing so many of the fundamental formulas of lotro. Namely, watering down the landscape content to make it easier and quicker, inflating exp rewards to speed up the ranking process, and most of all doing away with so many fellowship quests so it could very nearly be done all 'solo' (for me this was very sad - and yes I do know something of this, because even though I play creep now, I've racked up 13 months time /played on lotro across all toons (yes shocking isn't it), but only about 2 - 3 of those months has been on creep.) So if you view landscape as a training school for end-game content, including the Moors, you could say that a once tough, rigorous training school has regressed into a more of a kindergarten.

And what has been the effect of that? It took me months to reach level 50. It takes nothing near that anymore. Players who began and levelled up from, say 2010 onwards, have done so with only a portion, perhaps even a fraction, of the time it took for the older players, with far less accumulated experience in playing their role, and having done so at a much 'easier' difficulty level, and with hardly any grouping up at all -- unless they're in a raid kin, I repeat: hardly grouping up at all. And face-rolling piss-easy skirmishes doesn't count. "Rat?" they may ask. "What's a Rat?" Exactly! How would some of them even know how to follow a rat? Today's newly reached level-cap player is merely a shadow of the hardened end-game players from SoA or Moria days. They are just not the same. So at least some new players that step into the moors today, even if they've been playing for a couple of years, are usually not the same brand of player that you would find 5 years ago. That is not a dig at them. It's not their fault the game has changed so much, and so much of the challenge that was once available to players has been removed.

So I fully appreciate the time and patience shown by the likes of Erlo and Odo too, in leading these raids, and 'shepherding' such players that won't have the same experience that you do. Patience is a virtue though: they can't be expected to have that same familiarity, practice and capabilities that are part and parcel of the game for long-term players such as ourselves. Instead of kicking them Odo, talk to them, instruct them, show them what to do. Someone has to, because it sure as hell isn't going to be Turbine, and what now passes for landscape content.

[Mirobelle]

Well said Uz!
It's up to raid leaders to invest a bit of time making their players into a cohesive untit and this I think is shown on creepside as, like I said before, creeps only have the morrs and so practise more often.

Make a raid, take it to GV and make them hit training dummies. Switch between the 3 and get them all following rat. Then run them round the moors and make them stay grouped up.

Drill your players and they will faceroll us every day

[Alperfix]

Well said Uz!
It's up to raid leaders to invest a bit of time making their players into a cohesive untit and this I think is shown on creepside as, like I said before, creeps only have the morrs and so practise more often.

Make a raid, take it to GV and make them hit training dummies. Switch between the 3 and get them all following rat. Then run them round the moors and make them stay grouped up.

Drill your players and they will faceroll us every day

Serious? Takes already a lot of time to get ppl to activate raid assist window and in-game voice... If the freeps gonna start with training dummies too creeps gonna die of old age before any action takes place...

[crockett1986]

Well said Uz!
It's up to raid leaders to invest a bit of time making their players into a cohesive untit and this I think is shown on creepside as, like I said before, creeps only have the morrs and so practise more often.

Make a raid, take it to GV and make them hit training dummies. Switch between the 3 and get them all following rat. Then run them round the moors and make them stay grouped up.

Drill your players and they will faceroll us every day

just like I drill you maggots , you don't follow rat its 10 laps round the moors and 1000 /rude emotes for your sorry assess :P

[Gwyndor]

just like I drill you maggots , you don't follow rat its 10 laps round the moors and 1000 /rude emotes for your sorry assess :P

Or for repeat offenders 10 minutes behind DG with Somenutter. And be warned, he may touch you, and do things to you, things considered unnatural in most parts of the civilized world.

[Erlo]

I think Erlo and Grumpyhobbit (still trying to work out who that is in-game!) have hit the nail on the head.

There's just not much call for dedicated raid tactics on pve side any more and this leaves players woefully un-prepared when they come to the moors as they think they can just continue with their pve playstyle and roll over everything without thinking.
Like Grumpy said: Most creeps, or at the very least the majority of the main raiders, have been paying their creeps for a long time and many have been playing ONLY creep. They know their class, it's strengths and weaknesses, how their actions affect others and, most of all, disciplined raid tactics. When a creep raid moves it usually (there are times even on our side when it breaks down or when the lag makes it difficult - wait, sorry Odo, we don't get lag do we?) moves as one. Skills aren't thrown down in panic and raids are much, much calmer.

The insinuation that creep-side must be much easier to play because we have less skills is just offensive to be honest Odo. We have the same raid roles, the same actions to complete and the same situations to react to as freeps do but we have to do all of that with about 60% less skills. The fact that freeps have more skills means the complete opposite of what you think in that; if a freep misses a skill he/she usually has another one that does the same or very similar thing to back it up with. Look at minis for example - a mini uses bolster courage on the wrong target and gives a big heal to a raid member that doesn't need it. They can switch to the target that does need it and fire off chord of salvation and that player gets it's big heal. Now, if I'm on my defiler and I use Fell Restoration on the wrong target that's my one big heal gone and on CD for 30s. The only thing I can try to do to recover is spam small hots on the raid member that needs it and hope they are not on rat.

It's very hard, I realise, when looking at one side from the other's point of view to not be biased. It takes too long to get the freep raid together and moving and the creeps that have been standing around waiting for a fight whine that "coward freeps have disbanded". Freeps get a proper raid together because they fought a full-raid-ish number of creeps and then find nothing to fight because it turned out to be a 12 man and a load of solos and half have logged off. I for one appreciate the freep leaders who get raids together to give us something to fight. I have to say though that I was disappointed for most of last night.

Sharns raid stood outside tir waiting for the fraid to come out and fight and in the end had to chase the fraid into tir main and try to fight a fraid plus npcs and deal with all the lag that ensues with fighting in keeps. Then we had the same thing when the fraid ran into ROP and refused to come out and fight. It's all well and good coming to the forums and saying "we don't hug keeps" as has been said just a few pages ago here but when the truth is staring at you in the face then how do you reconcile that?

We try not to fight in keeps as it makes for laggy and un-even fights. I remember a couple of weeks ago we had some brilliant fights in the open at lc3 and old plains op. The lag wasn't so bad at all and neither side had to deal with npcs. I was excited as I thought if the action was going to be like this until HD it would be an awesome month. It's a shame it only lasted a couple of nights and then it went straight back to GY/BD/GV/Grams hugging.

I've got to say tho on a positive note before I finish this post. The last fight I saw before I logged last night was the 4 raid (or near enough) fight at lc3 and I really enjoyed it. It was laggy and as a healer it was really hard but there were no npcs and no running away and hugging keeps or BDs. Just some great action out in the open.
More of this please guys as it's going to get very quiet in the moors soon with HD coming out. Don't forget freeps that you may have other things to go and do when you get bored or when a new expac comes out but us dedicated creeps have the moors and nothing else.

Cheers.

I did lead most of the night and reason why i didnt exist tir is quite understandable.!?

We had 2 fights before that and we wiped both Times'. We had 43 foes on track, i had a full raid and 12 followers. Why would i go out in an open battle and wipe a third time!? Todays creeps Should know My leading by now. I, if i win move the fight To a place where i have less chance To win. And ofc i expect vice versa!

I Will not Run and wipe again and again. If creep leaders cant take and give, we Will have a boring night.

It turned out well imo anyway.. Long fight at oc that lasted a long time. Was fights abit everywhere tbh.

Lodas of action and a big share frustration.

[Erlo]

Some people just dont run solo

Airstrike needed for 2 freeps in HH

http://postimg.org/image/cfhpj4rm5/

[Deniorona]

Or for repeat offenders 10 minutes behind DG with Somenutter. And be warned, he may touch you, and do things to you, things considered unnatural in most parts of the civilized world.

errr and how wud this b punishment gordi?!

[Erlo]

Rofl!

Hypocrits! Again. airstrike to Groth vs 4 freeps. ....

You creeps are just hillarious. GJ mr matty! 2 vs 2. but lets call in for 10 more!

http://postimg.org/image/qegaiq2vx/

[Evanno]

You devs are hilarious - nice rock formation - map lc3 lads!!

[botoo]

Rofl!

Hypocrits! Again. airstrike to Groth vs 4 freeps. ....

You creeps are just hillarious. GJ mr matty! 2 vs 2. but lets call in for 10 more!

http://postimg.org/image/qegaiq2vx/

How is that so different from you rounding up half of HH npc's vs 1 defiler Elro? You had 2 hunters close-by (1 was targeting through you), the creeps that showed up were only after that 'event'.

And an airstrike is something that occurs, could well be none, 1, or 20 creeps mapping in, luck of the draw.

[Mirobelle]

How are airstrikes any different from map-point campers?

You do what you do, we do what we do.

[Gwyndor]

errr and how wud this b punishment gordi?!

Erm, that it only lasts 10 minutes? Further appointments can be made, however.

[Erlo]

Hahaha.

Thats more like it! You guys are so much fun! Changing ur minds about stuff every time needed!!

scroll back 10 pages and you see your own whining.

Funny to see that you whine like crazy when its other way around and now you come with this!

Im laughing here Sweet sweet little creeps!

[Erlo]

How is that so different from you rounding up half of HH npc's vs 1 defiler Elro? You had 2 hunters close-by (1 was targeting through you), the creeps that showed up were only after that 'event'.

And an airstrike is something that occurs, could well be none, 1, or 20 creeps mapping in, luck of the draw.

Ofc an airstirke occurs. But a rank 12 defiler and 1 reaver vs a hunter and champ. How on earth are the freeps going to win that in grothum with all the npcs. Is it really needed? If, then its time to go train on some dummies...

[Erlo]

How are airstrikes any different from map-point campers?

You do what you do, we do what we do.

Ps. Joining the bitching towards me on a forum is not the way in to creep community. Ill give u a different approach mate so that u can become an important figure in creep community.. Tagging along in #### throwing on me aint gonna gain you the respect you want so bad!

Just chill, lead a few raids and keep a cool profile and you will fit right in....

You came out of nowhere and joined the few bitching about me here... Good luck with ur future career in Ettens mate!

[Mirobelle]

I'm not bitching at you mate.
Was just asking a question/stating a point.

I may well have come out of nowhere on forums but that doesn't mean I haven't been reading them for a long time.

And to be fair, my first post wasn't a #####, it was a question to you after feeling a bit disrespected by you.

call that bitching if you want.

[BrekkaSrbenda]

...

Who is this guy? Who are you? Are you the SheepZ that got away, few nights ago, from Nutters abuse?

[crockett1986]

Rofl!

Hypocrits! Again. airstrike to Groth vs 4 freeps. ....

You creeps are just hillarious. GJ mr matty! 2 vs 2. but lets call in for 10 more!

http://postimg.org/image/qegaiq2vx/

2 vs2? lol that's why there was 4 of u in the end may of seen 2vs2 at the start me and reaver were fine but then I noticed another lm and hunter come from ost way so was 2vs 4 so don't give me that ####

u fail to mention that tho so stop the whining plz u think u took that much morale of me by urself ? lol

open your eyes next time you might see more of whats around you , I have no reson to call u in when me and reaver killed ur hunter and we taken u out easy enough if u didn't sprint of, why would I call it in , o wait the 2 freeps behind u nuking me yes

[Erlo]

2 vs2? lol that's why there was 4 of u in the end may of seen 2vs2 at the start me and reaver were fine but then I noticed another lm and hunter come from ost way so was 2vs 4 so don't give me that ####

u fail to mention that tho so stop the whining plz u think u took that much morale of me by urself ? lol

open your eyes next time you might see more of whats around you , I have no reson to call u in when me and reaver killed ur hunter and we taken u out easy enough if u didn't sprint of, why would I call it in , o wait the 2 freeps behind u nuking me yes

Rolf..

Mate ur To full of yourself. I Nuke you down any day mate. You and reAver jumper down the cliff more Then 1 time.. Trying To get us To pull even more npcs.
Ofc i use sprint, u really expect me To limb around nuking you running around like a " choose random Word " trying To make me pull more npcs.... Its a skill, makes me get out of a slow!

If you could take me down easy enough, healer and dps vs dps. Wow mate, your good... You didnt. You called in airstrike! Brave! Watch freep ooc, wedont call in airstrikes. Its pointless. We dont have maps! Doubt you know alot about ettens dude...

But i guess if you dont have the skills To fight Alone you need To call in 10 more. Good play Mrmatty! Good play. Next time call in more faster because you obviously cant handle etten on your own!

[crockett1986]

Rolf..

Mate ur To full of yourself. I Nuke you down any day mate. You and reAver jumper down the cliff more Then 1 time.. Trying To get us To pull even more npcs.
Ofc i use sprint, u really expect me To limb around nuking you running around like a " choose random Word " trying To make me pull more npcs.... Its a skill, makes me get out of a slow!

If you could take me down easy enough, healer and dps vs dps. Wow mate, your good... You didnt. You called in airstrike! Brave! Watch freep ooc, wedont call in airstrikes. Its pointless. We dont have maps! Doubt you know alot about ettens dude...

But i guess if you dont have the skills To fight Alone you need To call in 10 more. Good play Mrmatty! Good play. Next time call in more faster because you obviously cant handle etten on your own!

rofl and your not full of your self either?

I jumped of cliff once to get away from the freeps who come in from ost yes erlo u wasn't the only one there!!!!

the thing is u may of sprinted around but u wasn't nuking anything ^^ we was with u at entrance of grothum ost side

I didn't call air strike in just for you its not needed to kill u, but the 2 guys behind u yes we needed help or we die 2vs2 I don't need to

I don't call anything in unless im out numbered or no I cant win so when its 4vs 2 all on me ? why should I call that in, o wait sry it was only u in groth wasn't it????? lol yep I needed to call a airstrike for the mighty erlo as I really needed it as u was nuking me down and the reaver lol

I no a lot about ettens m8 so really don't even go there, u expect me to happly get killed 2 vs 4? and not try to call in some help plz if its fair fight I wont call it in

I don't have the skills ? im often solo u tard and if u happen to notice im a defiler my dps isnt the greatest compred to freeps is it now?

you no nothing about me and how I play stop crying just because ur fellow freeps come in at the wrong time is not my problem deal with it , the fact of the matter it started of as 2vs2 but more freeps come so it didn't stay that way

jog on

[Erlo]

rofl and your not full of your self either?

I jumped of cliff once to get away from the freeps who come in from ost yes erlo u wasn't the only one there!!!!

the thing is u may of sprinted around but u wasn't nuking anything ^^ we was with u at entrance of grothum ost side

I didn't call air strike in just for you its not needed to kill u, but the 2 guys behind u yes we needed help or we die 2vs2 I don't need to

I don't call anything in unless im out numbered or no I cant win so when its 4vs 2 all on me ? why should I call that in, o wait sry it was only u in groth wasn't it????? lol yep I needed to call a airstrike for the mighty erlo as I really needed it as u was nuking me down and the reaver lol

I no a lot about ettens m8 so really don't even go there, u expect me to happly get killed 2 vs 4? and not try to call in some help plz if its fair fight I wont call it in

I don't have the skills ? im often solo u tard and if u happen to notice im a defiler my dps isnt the greatest compred to freeps is it now?

you no nothing about me and how I play stop crying just because ur fellow freeps come in at the wrong time is not my problem deal with it , the fact of the matter it started of as 2vs2 but more freeps come so it didn't stay that way

jog on

suggest you read Tarmas post! one sided view, All i say..

We were 2 vs 2. aye, you nuked hunter down fast and it was then 2 vs 1. it stayed like that for a while before some freeps showed up. at that point it was 2 vs 3. a healer and reaver vs Champ, hunter and hunter.. As you said. why play fair, lets call in backup. Why should you give it a go. 2 vs 3 and loads of npcs in your favour....

Difference is. freeps do fight and we fight brave. We cant get people mapped in with in 5-10 seconds. We have to stay and fight and try our best. Whilst as you said. Why give it a shot 2 vs 3 and MAYBE loose. Better to push the i win button.

Seriously read your own post before posting it.

I wont expect a fair fight from you in the future mate. You are just a hypocrit stating that you wont call in reinf unless needed. Unfortunatley you seem to belive you are playing a barbi doll with no strenghts at all. Pitty.

Thats why i ask if u got any idea about the class you play.. You heal the reaver faster then 3 dps can nuke him or you down. Still as you said yourself, you dont like loosing so calling in backup! Brave mate. Really brave.

Then stating in the same post that you solo alot! What a load of ####.

Any person with some common sence reading this conversation realizes 1 thing.

You dont play for a challenge. You play only if you know you will win. and you call it brave.. Pathetic mate! Its called in your language, EZ moder!

Dont mind dying in Groth at all, just loling at you and your statement.. FAir fights. na shouldnt expect that from a guy like you!