Captain Update, second iteration.

[furtim]

I love everything about this. Thanks, Rask, for delivering an awesome revitalisation of the class that maintains solid balance for the group dynamics.

Thoughts: I'm not a huge fan of halberds, but if we were going to get a block weapon, that would be it. If it can't be done, or if the anti-halberd feedback is too strong, I like Almagnus' alternative suggestions. A bonus to crit def or to P/E both seem like especially solid choices.

As for the new capstones, I'm looking at them more philosophically. Like, the brother toggles are about what the Captain brings to the fellowship. Blade when the fellowship needs damage, Shield for survivability, Song for healing. The capstones are all about what we provide, which is a function of our role.

When we're healing and the fellowship doesn't need big heals just then? Use Blade-Brother. Your healing isn't needed, so you're not missing the To Arms boost. When we're DPSing but the fellowship needs to recover between fights? Song-Brother on the main healer, fine.

Alternatively, look at it like this: what if there's not a main healer, but there's you and an off-healer? Bam, HoH Captain. Or no main tank, but there's you and an off-tank? Bam, LoM Captain. Got everything else well-covered? LtC Captain to bring the pain.

Awesome.

[PackOfIdiots]

@Those whining about Halberd Block ability:

Yes, anyone who provides feedback with which you do not agree or are not concerned is "whining"...

[Reximus]

If the tech is possible, it raises the question of why only Halberd and why not other 2h weapons. It seems unusual that previous updates have downplayed the different types of weapons and now we are looking at one that is weapon specific.

It just seems like a step backwards.

All this time we have people using 2h swords or Axes for cosmetic or other reasons and now we toss in a weapon specific trait after all the other efforts have been passed for normalization. After all the work people have done for LI's it seems like the wrong approach.

Please don't force us to use a particular weapon to gain the ability to block. I though we were past that sort of design better than a year ago...

I agree with this, and hope the Halberd thing doesn't make it as is. I'd be just as happy with you can block with any 2-H, or get +10% parry with a 2-H and capstone, or whatever. Forcing basically all Capts who ever want to go LOM to choose Halberd strikes me as very limiting.

The change doesn't do anything to what weapon you DPS with, all 2h weapons will still be just as viable for DPS as they are now, and that was the point of the weapon normalizations.

Each class that tanks does so in its own unique way, and the Captains unique way is to use its unique weapon. Guards tank with shields, Champs will tank with 2h, Wardens use spears and gambits, Captains will tank with Halberds.

It's fine and as it should be, especially considering that the halberd has the +threat modifier on it as well. It's no more limiting then what any other tank has to deal with.

LI's will basically be reset again with ROI, enjoy your new 3rd age lvl 75 Halberd, or don't tank and use any 2h you want.

[hussar]

how long will be routing cry forced attack?
and how both traits will go together? the forced taunt time will be part of the stun time?

Second question, noble mark new mechanics are based on dps aggro or total aggro including taunts?

LOVE defy corruption changes.

I dont really wanna start to use halberds, but if the block is possible and if there is new tanking/aggro legacies i will have to get one as a tanking weapon.

suggestion: +3 seconds on forced taunts or +20% aggro from healing.

[Thoronthor]

omg you implemented my idea to make -brother skills give full effect to the captain, thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

omg IDOME aura...hell yes

all of this looks great, ill give more in-dept feedback tomorrow, but for now i'm just going to bed happy

-disclaimer: this post was made under the heavy influence of alcohol

[Belnavar]

I love these changes!

The IDOME one is a long time coming, imo. What a pain that was to have to reapply it every 5 mins, often in mid battle.

The skill and trait changes look great also. They address some nagging concerns.

I would love to block with a halberd. I really hope this tech makes it into the game. If not, we need some other some other buff to survivability, such as a chunk of extra armour or a big increase to parry and/or evade.

I'm glad to hear we're getting a fourth legendary slot, as moving the fellowship application of the X-brother skills to a legendary skill would mean we'd have to drop something else. I like the change, as it means I can try out other lines and still have the fellowship buff (which is the main reason I trait LoM), but we definitely need the extra legendary slot.

Overall, I'm impressed and can't way to try this out.

-Bel

[Almagnus1]

Yes, anyone who provides feedback with which you do not agree or are not concerned is "whining"...

If I perceive comments to be basically whining, I'm gonna call them as such.

It's my opinion, whether or not you agree with it is another matter entirely =)

[dietlbomb]

Great changes.

I'm curious to see how the legacies work out too, since the Strength of Will legacy (among others) will probably need a change.

In case the block thing doesn't work, perhaps halberds could have a passive parry/evade stat and have the capstone bump it up a lot.

[Mikuma]

Here is my solution for adding blocking while using a halberd. Coming from a LM perspective why not modify one of your legendary traits to something similar to loremaster's Staff and Sword trait which allows a two-handed staff to be wielded in one hand. For the captain do the same, allow a two handed weapon to be equiped in one hand leaving the other freee for a shield. call it sword and shield or something like that.

[Almagnus1]

Here is my solution for adding blocking while using a halberd. Coming from a LM perspective why not modify one of your legendary traits to something similar to loremaster's Staff and Sword trait which allows a two-handed staff to be wielded in one hand. For the captain do the same, allow a two handed weapon to be equiped in one hand leaving the other freee for a shield. call it sword and shield or something like that.

While it's a solid option, that feels more like something a champ would do.

Edit:
For some reason, I feel like there's a shield type that can be strapped to the forearm that is somewhat compatible with a two handed weapon....

Maybe I'm remembering something from D&D 3.5.....

[blazo]

Great changes,but if LoM changes doesnt work why not a new kind of shield Captain shield,that will be like wardens shield,but looks cool,mainly beacuse i dont like animation of halberds
EDIT:i also think we wont suck so badly at dps anymore

[Lithium777]

Thank you for removing subtle command with something half way useful. Leader of Men is now a dedicated tank line, I can deal with that. What I would like to see is something to increase survivability somewhat. *blocking with a 2handed is awsome, but would sitll like something else* Increased evade and maybe a flat 1000 morale or so

[dietlbomb]

Or maybe instead of adding block to halberds, add a damage/threat bonus to 1h weapons to the equivalent of halberds.

[Beorthelion]

I for the most part like all the changes...except for the LOM....../sigh I'm still not sure why we need the ability to tank once RoI come in you are boosting champs which makes 3 tanks...do we really need 4? I really wish someone would explain this to me. If LoM is going to be our tanking line, just change the name....Leader of Men suggest that we are Leaders. A captain in the field is not taking aggro..they are doing things (strats, inspiring, ...) that make their men better to combat the enemy. LoM should be a buffing line...I will never understand why the buffing has gotten side steped.

And if we choose to trait 'LoM' will we be able to be the main tank in a 6 man or 12 man? If not I think it is really dumb to create a line just for 3 mans and over geared 6 mans. And I think the same goes for every trait line in the game. If you trait this line it should be a VIABLE spec for every instance..not just for solo or 3mans or 6 mans or 12 mans or 24 mans. That is the main problem. If you are trying to make class combination possibilties for every instance better (which I like) Make sure that they no matter what line someone traits it WILL be of use in the ENTIRE game.

Now if when RoI comes out and I try the yellow line (which I will because I love tanking - have a grd and a wdn who I love to play) and I am able to be a MAIN tank in every instance/raid then I will be ok with the changes (still would like LoM name change to fit the role like Defender of Men) and If I trait red and can do dps to the level which will make it viable in any instance/raid I will be please there as well. But please dont make all these changes just for small groups or for doing old instances/raids where we are 5-10 levels higher than they are designed for. *crosses fingers*

[Andronic0s]

These changes are looking really good, thank you for posting them! finally getting exited for playing my captain (my only 65) in Isengard

The only thing, add me to the list of Halberd haters , I really hope that blocking bonus can be applied to all captain 2 handers, I would really hate to be FORCED to use a halberd over all the other weapons that are equally viable options right now (which is a good think in my opinion)

[Armisayl191]

I thoroughly enjoy all the changes. The idea of blocking with a 2H weapon is great, although I do think that people shouldn't be forced to use a Halberd when it comes to tanking. Sword and board should remain a viable option, maybe that is your intention, I just wanted to ask if it will remain this way. If not, allow them to tank with any 2hander through traits in Leader of Men or possibly something else.

Limited the players choice is never a good idea, and I'm not saying that's what you're doing, I'm just stating that removing sword and board as a tanking option probably wouldn't be best.

I'm all for Heavy Shields for a captain though :P. Those dinky little shields look silly when tanking. Probably more silly(albeit awesome) than hobbit tanks.

[Beorthelion]

Another way to combat the avoidance of captains is to raise our parry to compensate for the absence of a block. I wouldnt increase our evade b/c we are wearing heavy armor (if you do give us an evasion increase its only fair to remove the - evade on heavy shields for guardians, you need to have some type of consistancy, you say that grds cant evade with a big shield...i dont think capt would be able to evade with a long a$$ weapon either) But that long weapon would be better at parrying due to its abilty to defend two sides of wielder as well as their middle. I'll keep thinking of things.

[Armisayl191]

I for the most part like all the changes...except for the LOM....../sigh I'm still not sure why we need the ability to tank once RoI come in you are boosting champs which makes 3 tanks...do we really need 4? I really wish someone would explain this to me. If LoM is going to be our tanking line, just change the name....Leader of Men suggest that we are Leaders. A captain in the field is not taking aggro..they are doing things (strats, inspiring, ...) that make their men better to combat the enemy. LoM should be a buffing line...I will never understand why the buffing has gotten side steped.

And if we choose to trait 'LoM' will we be able to be the main tank in a 6 man or 12 man? If not I think it is really dumb to create a line just for 3 mans and over geared 6 mans. And I think the same goes for every trait line in the game. If you trait this line it should be a VIABLE spec for every instance..not just for solo or 3mans or 6 mans or 12 mans or 24 mans. That is the main problem. If you are trying to make class combination possibilties for every instance better (which I like) Make sure that they no matter what line someone traits it WILL be of use in the ENTIRE game.

Now if when RoI comes out and I try the yellow line (which I will because I love tanking - have a grd and a wdn who I love to play) and I am able to be a MAIN tank in every instance/raid then I will be ok with the changes (still would like LoM name change to fit the role like Defender of Men) and If I trait red and can do dps to the level which will make it viable in any instance/raid I will be please there as well. But please dont make all these changes just for small groups or for doing old instances/raids where we are 5-10 levels higher than they are designed for. *crosses fingers*

They are adding more options to class trait-lines. It's precisely what they should do. Imagine if all 3 traitlines were 3 different BUFFING lines. That would be kinda boring. Change it up. Allow them more options for a role. They won't tank exactly like a Champ, Guard or Tank, so long as that remains true, more tanks are always better.

[Beorthelion]

They are adding more options to class trait-lines. It's precisely what they should do. Imagine if all 3 traitlines were 3 different BUFFING lines. That would be kinda boring. Change it up. Allow them more options for a role. They won't tank exactly like a Champ, Guard or Tank, so long as that remains true, more tanks are always better.

Like I said I dont mind changes as LONG AS THEY ARE VIABLE IN ALL OCCATIONS not just 3 mans. I said if I am able to be a main tank in more than 3 mans or over geared 6 mans (you know like be a tank for raids and such) then I like it...but dont give me a line of traits with a cap stone so I can be an off tank.....thats just lame.

[dietlbomb]

Also, one nitpick. The changes to Lead the Charge are nice dps boost for people who already made it through Moria, but it isn't going to help the leveling captains who can barely stay ahead of the respawning warg-riders as they trudge through Western Durin's Way.

[Mr.Tower]

At last some meaningful changes for the captain.

[Almagnus1]

Something else I was wondering, would it be possible to get the Song Bro and Blade Brother at a lower level, especially since they're tied to the capstones, and we get those in Moria?

Also, one nitpick. The changes to Lead the Charge are nice dps boost for people who already made it through Moria, but it isn't going to help the leveling captains who can barely stay ahead of the respawning warg-riders as they trudge through Western Durin's Way.

Probably where a tweak to the archer, so the captains get it at a lower level, then having precise ally tie captain's damage type to the herald/archer's damage type.

[Eldrandir]

Very Good ideas Raskolnikov, I am quite impressed and it shows you have been putting a lot of thought and attention into both Capts and LMs.

Like I said I dont mind changes as LONG AS THEY ARE VIABLE IN ALL OCCATIONS not just 3 mans. I said if I am able to be a main tank in more than 3 mans or over geared 6 mans (you know like be a tank for raids and such) then I like it...but dont give me a line of traits with a cap stone so I can be an off tank.....thats just lame.

Off-tank is what your supposed to be, it combines very well with your ability to heal, buff, and tank at the same time.

[skadi]

Also: PLEASE change the SoW back to 1:30 sec, It doesn't make sense to increase it since removing SB will take out any placed effect. The 30 sec provides excellent time break where we can manange and ensure that the person has SoW on them at all time it's horrible idea to make us stare at our skill as it goes off cooldown and activate it immediately. Please there is no additional beneficial way that we can use to our advantage when using SoW anyways.

/signed. I often rebuff at 1:50, or even 1:30 if I have nothing else pressing to do at that moment. In difficult content when things are getting hairy, having that 30 second buffer so we can choose when is convenient for us to trigger SoW is important.

[rogeZ]

Just a thought on the block thing. If the mechanics are so hard how about instead giving us a large bonus to armor and/or resistances and/or mitigation? How about a greater version of the guardians Stoic class trait? A little bit of vit (or maybe just max moral), mitigation bonuses, and top it all of with a nice 1000 armor bonus or something? That should easily be workable and this way captain's won't need a second set of gear for yellow line that has +block on it. That will also make this beneficial for sword and board cappies too.