Come list ye' grievences

[Jamers]

Its simple really. It ain't rocket science.

1. Don't cut-off people between a rez circle and a raid vs raid. You'll make people leave which'll make both sides angry for making their style of fighting less efficient.

2. Don't participatedin 45 vs 24 blitzkreigs or similar numbers unless you want an empty moors and/or a Grams fight which is also wasting your time.

3. Don't ninja as a freep. It's also not as productive. It makes sense for creeps to do it since they powerup based off of destiny points and map-quests. Freepside just gets tokens, for calling in Goldie and for a % loot-chest chance.

4. In support of #3, who is more likely to be on defense then? Creepside. Because I still say that the horse is the more efficient method of travel in the moors, vs maps.. as maps have cooldowns and not every creep has them, or several of them.. or even have a full set of crude maps, or poor maps.. so that therefore spreads a raid out and delays it should they wish to ninja a keep unless everyone has the SAME map, allowing the freeps to then aggressively respond.

[Stanimir]

Well the attempt to take an unbiased point of view is actually a bias of it's own. I could go on to say something about truths too but this isn't a thread about philosophical questions and ideals so I'll stop.

But what you said is very true otherwise. There I go saying true...

My mind is utterly boggled! Why do we even go to the moors? for fun? What is fun? Enjoyment? But I leave with little enjoyment? Perhaps it is a self-fulfilling prophecy because I go expecting to not enjoy myself. Perhaps its because I dont have honor. What is honor?

So many unanswerable questions are asked by the moors. To reach the path of enlightenment, one must sit under the tree with the bird and meditate.

1.) All the moors is suffering
2.) All moors suffering comes from desire
3.) To end suffering, one must abstract themselves from the desire to make everyone L2P like they do

[Jungleghost]

"Do not try and understand the Moors. Instead, only realize the truth... That there is no Moors... Then you'll see, that it is not the Moors that you must understand, it is only yourself."

[The_Observer]

"Do not try and understand the Moors. Instead, only realize the truth... That there is no Moors... Then you'll see, that it is not the Moors that you must understand, it is only yourself."

Then...

Then there is no Sars? I made him up in my mind?

Oh, thank God. I can sleep better knowing that he and all of you are just figments of my imagination.

[Jungleghost]

I am what you think up, you clearly need help.

[leekofthewood]

Then...

Then there is no Sars? I made him up in my mind?

Oh, thank God. I can sleep better knowing that he and all of you are just figments of my imagination.

If that were true, I wish I had just stuck a fork in my temporal lobe ages ago.

[thebob007]

Seeing the amount of hate I got I was going to drop this whole cherade but I think i've summed the entire argument up in one statement.

PEOPLE CARE WAY TOO MUCH ABOUT IRRELEVENT VIRTUAL POINTS

Sometimes we all need to remmember that LOTRO is a game, a highly addicting one, but a game nontheless. The moors, purpose wise, have alot more in common with monopoly than with real life. Last I checked, the purpose of a game was fun. Someone down the line posted that we're all egomaniacs, + rep for that, because ego-fueling, not any sort of fun, seems to be at the heart of most of the grieved about play styles. I really doubt anyone gets a kick out of sitting for 20 minutes in one spot, killing the same person/group of people over and over, in a situation that involved no challenge, no danger, and no skill (aka rez camping w/ a raid). To those people who say that fueling their ego is fun I say this. If you use lotro pvp as your main source of pride and accomplishment, you really don't have ANYTHING else in life do you? I have to say you're pathetic, and I feel sorry for you if thats the case.

All of the points, ranks, ratings, and other bs we get rewarded with in the moors is ultimately useless. Even on a game level. Rank, ultimately, just equals amount of time invested into pvp on that character. Rating is completely useless and invisible. What matters more, getting 2000 infamy/renown in a night, or having a great rvr fight, or small skirmishes, or whatever kind of fighting you like?

If there is one rule that should be posted on a billboard outside the moors its this "what happens outside, stays outside, what happens inside is for its own sake"

-Insomnia fueled ramblings of the White Warden

[Stanimir]

Seeing the amount of hate I got I was going to drop this whole cherade but I think i've summed the entire argument up in one statement.

PEOPLE CARE WAY TOO MUCH ABOUT IRRELEVENT VIRTUAL POINTS

Sometimes we all need to remmember that LOTRO is a game, a highly addicting one, but a game nontheless. The moors, purpose wise, have alot more in common with monopoly than with real life. Last I checked, the purpose of a game was fun. Someone down the line posted that we're all egomaniacs, + rep for that, because ego-fueling, not any sort of fun, seems to be at the heart of most of the grieved about play styles. I really doubt anyone gets a kick out of sitting for 20 minutes in one spot, killing the same person/group of people over and over, in a situation that involved no challenge, no danger, and no skill (aka rez camping w/ a raid). To those people who say that fueling their ego is fun I say this. If you use lotro pvp as your main source of pride and accomplishment, you really don't have ANYTHING else in life do you? I have to say you're pathetic, and I feel sorry for you if thats the case.

All of the points, ranks, ratings, and other bs we get rewarded with in the moors is ultimately useless. Even on a game level. Rank, ultimately, just equals amount of time invested into pvp on that character. Rating is completely useless and invisible. What matters more, getting 2000 infamy/renown in a night, or having a great rvr fight, or small skirmishes, or whatever kind of fighting you like?

If there is one rule that should be posted on a billboard outside the moors its this "what happens outside, stays outside, what happens inside is for its own sake"

-Insomnia fueled ramblings of the White Warden

Bodhisattva, chill. Isn't insisting someone is wrong ego enhancing? Because you think you are right and someone else is not, and further, that they don't have a real life. Isn't that saying that you are better and more correct than someone else? And isn't that also saying that you have a pretension of seeing the correct way amongst others who do not? That sounds a lot like ego to me. Pretension is a big problem. You have the pretension of having a big bad real life amongst others who take something too seriously. Others have a pretension that they are the best players of their class. Yet others have the pretension that creeps and freep are inherently different, like one is better and one is worse. You can think whatever the hell you want, but you cannot act as if it is true to others, in a subjective matter, without causing a hell of a lot of butthurt.

The answer and path to enlightenment is not in following those who make you butthurt. It is taking the other path in the forked road of life.

[Jungleghost]

Well, all your posts seem to be dripping with trolling, elitism and just general disrespect for how people wish to play that's outside your 'ethical/moral/whatevs compass'.

You said - If you use lotro pvp as your main source of pride and accomplishment, you really don't have ANYTHING else in life do you? I have to say you're pathetic, and I feel sorry for you if thats the case.

Perhaps you should step back and see if you have something else in your life instead of getting so worked up over a game.

To summarize USTILLNEEDHUGBRO?

Have a good day and I hope the game improves for you

Sars McAwesome.

[Jamers]

Sars McAwesome.

now with extra barbeque dipping sauce

[thebob007]

saying that someone is wrong is a lot easier than showing in what way they are mistaken. If you think i'm wrong then please clarify in what way, simply saying that my point does not support itself or that I am trolling does not constitute an argument. For example.

In what say are any of the various points and rating of the ettenmoors relevent? We could all list people that value them above all else.

Is there any excuse for using a game meant for entertainment for the sake of boosing ones ego at others expense (aka my points on elitism, trolling, face humping, ect)? I couldn't come up with a decent excuse for this although I could always be mistaken. Saying "anything goes" is just ignoring the issue by saying "I don't care, leave me alone". Ideally speaking, every action has justifications, if one cannot justify their actions then their actions are subjectively wrong from the persons own perspective.

ps. There is nothing wrong about making presumptions, most of our perception is presumptions. However, all presumptions are based in some part on evidence, the less evidence the less credible the presumption. And basing a presumptions along the lines of "he's clearly an eliteist and has a horrible real life" based off a forum post that specifically says that many of the behaviors I find disgusting are stemmed from a detachment from real life and substitution of the game in its place, makes no sense. If you would like to argue with me, take me seriusly if you expect me to take you seriusly.

[Baslin]

For thebob007:

[Falathrin]

Seeing the amount of hate I got I was going to drop this whole cherade but I think i've summed the entire argument up in one statement.

PEOPLE CARE WAY TOO MUCH ABOUT IRRELEVENT VIRTUAL POINTS

Sometimes we all need to remmember that LOTRO is a game, a highly addicting one, but a game nontheless. The moors, purpose wise, have alot more in common with monopoly than with real life. Last I checked, the purpose of a game was fun. Someone down the line posted that we're all egomaniacs, + rep for that, because ego-fueling, not any sort of fun, seems to be at the heart of most of the grieved about play styles. I really doubt anyone gets a kick out of sitting for 20 minutes in one spot, killing the same person/group of people over and over, in a situation that involved no challenge, no danger, and no skill (aka rez camping w/ a raid). To those people who say that fueling their ego is fun I say this. If you use lotro pvp as your main source of pride and accomplishment, you really don't have ANYTHING else in life do you? I have to say you're pathetic, and I feel sorry for you if thats the case.

All of the points, ranks, ratings, and other bs we get rewarded with in the moors is ultimately useless. Even on a game level. Rank, ultimately, just equals amount of time invested into pvp on that character. Rating is completely useless and invisible. What matters more, getting 2000 infamy/renown in a night, or having a great rvr fight, or small skirmishes, or whatever kind of fighting you like?

If there is one rule that should be posted on a billboard outside the moors its this "what happens outside, stays outside, what happens inside is for its own sake"

-Insomnia fueled ramblings of the White Warden

Yeah but see... you're wrong... (and I say that with the utmost humility)
To many, Lotro isn't just a game. The amount of time and effort players put in, the friendships formed, the reputations built, the rewards gained, give players a sense that they are apart of an online community more so than a game.
Like all other mmo's, Lotro employs stimulus and reward mechanics.
This can be summed up very generally as, you do what the devs want you to do, you get rewarded.

It doesn't matter if an item/rank/level is virtual or not. If it requires skill, effort and time to acquire it you can bet your life it has value.

The game has been setup to keep players playing, even when it gets boring.
At first you level up fast, then as you level up higher leveling slows down. It is the same with everything in the game. Ranks start off fast, then slow right down. Instances turn into raids. It's all cunningly devised to keep players busy.

Jumping back to the online community point I made, through a sense of achievement, the game fills a void in many peoples lives. Something a job (if players are lucky enough to have one) fails to do a lot of the time.

So you see, you may think that it is just a game, that it all means nothing, but too a majority of people it isn't.

Regardless of this fact, the inescapable truth of this is that wherever people go, they're going to take with them their feelings and emotions. So telling people that they care too much about something is basically inane.

./Novel finished.
I hope I at least made a little sense, it's 2am and I am struggling to think.

[thebob007]

Thank you for the civil answer Falathrin, that the kind of stuff I was hoping for 9 pages ago when I made the original post.


You do have a point actually, to some people it is more then a game. Whether it should be or not is a subjective matter purely dependent upon the person though you can probably guess on what side of the reality line I fall in my opinion. Lifestyle choices aside, if the game is a form of self-expression and community, then why not try to have a positive impact on that community? You didn't really seem to side with the people that were spewing 9 pages of hate at me, and thanks for that btw, but i'm just curious how one would justify the various behaviors that I was greiving about in the original post.

If the game is irrelevent to real life and ones sense of wellbeing, as it is in my case, then one would have no good reason for inflating their ego at other peoples expense, which is in essense what all of the grieved about behaviors do. If the game is an important outlet and community then why would you go about damaging that? Nasty playstyles make the entire atmosphere of the moors toxic, and if they moors are important to you then you'll be breathing that too. Maybe i'm looking for reason where there is none but I think i'll let my curiosity get the better of me this time.

[Elderas]

Honestly theads and occ comments like those in the OP confuse me. I really dont understand the rage/hate/bitterness that people have in pvp (in general not directed at op). The moors are fun, when they are no longer fun I will move on. You can not expect to change how other people play or dont play based on your own preferences. Outside of actively exploiting something I dont understand what anyone else does can bother anyone that much.

I think people try to exert more control over things in mmos as if its a solo game. There is no accounting for what others do sometimes, thats what makes pvp fun. If you dont care about all the details and have fun...the moors are fun.

I would rehash each point but DnDs answer below is close enough to my thoughts:

1) Rez camping- I don't necessarily camp them, but they are definitely in my "rotation," as you can often find someone who has no choice, but to fight you, if you engage them far enough away.

2) Corpse jumping/ rude emoting- It doesn't bother me.

3) Farming newbies/underlevels- You only become better by fighting someone with a pulse. As a "newbie/underlevel," you actually have nothing to lose. Fight the fight and, if you win, props to you.

4) Eliteism- Not everyone enjoys the same play style. Not everyone cares about keeps and such. If someone thinks they're elite, and they're not, enjoy the free lulz.

5) Raging/Trolling/Griefing- You can't take any of these out of an MMO pvp environment. If someone is doing one of the above and annoys you, /ignore.

-----------

I appreciate your effort to "clean up the moors," but policing the activities of others is wasted energy. If you do not like someone's actions, /ignore. Find what you enjoy spending your time doing and do it.

[Reichpapers]

After reading through all of this, I was left with one question, what age are you, and where do you think you fit in: (Basic Poll):

I'm l33t -
I play to win -
I just like a good challenge -
I play to have fun -
Too old for this ****, I roam around in stealth, drink beer and hunt for the easy targets - 39

Next.....

[Gillianrial]

Too old for this ****, I roam around in stealth, drink beer and hunt for the easy targets - 39

Next.....

bwahahaaah. Awesome.

[Aedon]

The problem is that we're all egomaniacs who think we're better than the other players, and the side we're on at any given time superior than the other side. Then we put on our rose-colored glasses and go post about our wonderful adventures full of kittens and rainbows. In turn this makes the people who were not experiencing a surplus of felines and refracted-light sour, forcing them to post angry novels about our egregarious errors in judgement the night before. Then we all have a couple drinks and chalk it up to friendly banter, and proceed to reenact the same old heterarchy the following night.

I like this.

[Jungleghost]

After reading through all of this, I was left with one question, what age are you, and where do you think you fit in: (Basic Poll):

I'm l33t -
I play to win -
I just like a good challenge -
I play to have fun -
Too old for this ****, I roam around in stealth, drink beer and hunt for the easy targets - 39

Next.....

Firstly, your font hurts my virgin eyes, for this I will hunt you down and smash you until you hips, return and ultimately kill me....

I play to have fun but mainly PvP ensures I don't drink as much because my hands are busy on keyboard.

Off to buy a beer can hat, peace out!

[F1erceGam3r2]

One hand is busy on the keyboard anyway...who the heck are you trying to kid?!

I want to list my 'arranged fight' grievance here. The only way I accept arranged fights is if we also agree that I will win. Otherwise, what's the point!?

Gutlard Out!

[Falathrin]

Thank you for the civil answer Falathrin, that the kind of stuff I was hoping for 9 pages ago when I made the original post.


You do have a point actually, to some people it is more then a game. Whether it should be or not is a subjective matter purely dependent upon the person though you can probably guess on what side of the reality line I fall in my opinion. Lifestyle choices aside, if the game is a form of self-expression and community, then why not try to have a positive impact on that community? You didn't really seem to side with the people that were spewing 9 pages of hate at me, and thanks for that btw, but i'm just curious how one would justify the various behaviors that I was greiving about in the original post.

If the game is irrelevent to real life and ones sense of wellbeing, as it is in my case, then one would have no good reason for inflating their ego at other peoples expense, which is in essense what all of the grieved about behaviors do. If the game is an important outlet and community then why would you go about damaging that? Nasty playstyles make the entire atmosphere of the moors toxic, and if they moors are important to you then you'll be breathing that too. Maybe i'm looking for reason where there is none but I think i'll let my curiosity get the better of me this time.

In the real world there are nice people and then there are ***holes. Same goes for the online world. Only, their ***holism (newly coined word ;D) is intensified largely due to anonymity. That isn't a justification, that is just an explanation as to why it is so easy for people to be horrible to one another online.

[Thallan]

1. I've been playing about 10 days now- and it's Guardians and Burgs... freaps that are camping creep rez spots. I have protected a creep push or two... but I do it at the Keep entrance... not just outside the range of the rez protectors.

2. I just ignore it- who cares. If I am lucky enough to know I might get rezzed... I follow the battle or relay intelligence to my faction. I have emotes filtered... waste of space in my chat log.

3. I have targeted lower players. About the only easy kills I can manage. Mono a mono I have no chance against any class- I've been beaten too many times. One fight I beat a Rank 6 Capt when I was unranked that I still died- I caught him afk and took half his health before he started fighting... half a second after I got him (129 infamy) I died... maybe I might do better now that I hit Rank 3... but for creeps it's a numbers game. We have to have more- We hit the field at max level- but not fully developed- we have to earn Rank to acquire skills. As long as that's true- anything on the field is fair game.

And honestly- a lvl 47 freap that's worth 15 infamy... is no poor cousin on the battle field. I'll eat that up everytime!

4 & 5- that's just how it is. I try to learn what I can from those who know more than I... and the rest of the time I blow them off. You can 'love' yourself all you want- I don't have time for worship... there's a freap that needs killing.

[NakedSingularity]

I play and have ranked toons on both sides on Landy. Some say you shouldn't do that on the same server, i say diaf, I'll do what i want.

Also there appears imho to be a lot of "god" complexes on freepside, I have yet to see this on creepside.

Both side complain about the other for the same ####, get over yourself people.

I enjoy both sides and will continue to play both, I have yet to put a creepside player on ignore thou.

[Jungleghost]

Um, hello, clearly you don't run with me on Creepside, I have a god complex, though it's not a complex, it's fact.

[NakedSingularity]

I said "yet".