They buff creeps, and buff creeps and buff creeps...

[Olympic]

Can I be the one to try and thwart you?

If anyone can get a thread shut down, it's me. > I think I still have the infraction wiggle room to manage.

So you think you have enough infraction wiggle room eh?

Well then consider this your warning. Don't do anything to disrupt this thread.

There now. You don't have enough wiggle room.

Even though he's one of my guys I'm going to have to +1 you anyway, good ownage is good no matter where.

Now if you would go to the "Good 1 vs. 1 Thread" and tell him "good fight, try harder next time" we will laugh for the rest of our lives, legendary...

[The_Observer]

So you think you have enough infraction wiggle room eh?

Well then consider this your warning. Don't do anything to disrupt this thread.

There now. You don't have enough wiggle room.

Haha!

Touche.

[Calem]

And yet still some of the highest ranked players on the server have to:

a> Run away when encountered solo.
b> Call out for help from other of the highest ranked players...sometimes the highest ranked player.
c> Refuse to fight even when in the midst of a whole camp of their friendly npcs.

Pathetic. Picking up sticks for infamy would be more of a challenge.

So here's my question...

Exactly how powerful does Turbine need to make you before you stop this garbage play and actually engage in PvMP rather than call outs, map-ins, and ganking?

Just curious. 20K morale? 50K? 99% BPE?

Whatever it is, Turbine please just give it to them. I'd rather fight an unbeatable foe than not fight a bunch of losers who just want to gank.

Going back to the original post, perhaps if your point was made with more dispassionate objectivity it may not have rubbed fur and loincloth the wrong way? It seems many understand the point you are making now, we have read this same point with added variations of tone in some shape or form for quite some time now. You may or may not accept this was written in a manner more likely to divide our community than draw it closer together for more mutually enjoyable gaming.

Some people enjoy soloing, some people enjoy grouping, some people enjoy 1v1s, some people enjoy taking keeps, defending keeps, calling in air strikes etc though to repeatedly advocate how others ought to play creates expectations which are unlikely to be fulfilled given people have every right to retain their freedom of unique playstyle preferences.

My response to this post is in how many ways would you like to make this same point of asking people to play the way you prefer them to play?

Do you think it may one day make a difference to the gameplay preferences of others asking them to play the way you prefer they play?

After reading many of your posts, I am unsure of your overarching point. Is it to ask players to play as you suggest we ought to play since you believe you may know what is best for the individual and collective gaming enjoyment of every player?

If that is not your overarching point, with the greatest respect, that often appears how you come across.

What do you truly seek from the Landroval gaming community that may enhance the gaming enjoyment of all players?

Or is it more of a case that you prefer players to adjust their gaming style to your preferences for them so it maximises the enjoyment for your preferred gaming style?

I have so many more questions, perhaps others do as well.

The bottom line for me is enjoying this game for how the community collectively shapes it without necessarily elevating anyone's personal expectations on every player's freedom to play a game the way they have every right to choose to play based on their own unique preferences.

[Jungleghost]

Invisus, my friend, due to your diet of hobbits, it's more jiggle room than wiggle room... However I've got your back, take your shot!


*dances before Tathlethril*

That's right, focus on the awesome orc before you... You can't resist my orcshakes!


<.<

[Olympic]

Invisus, my friend, due to your diet of hobbits, it's more jiggle room than wiggle room... However I've got your back, take your shot!


*dances before Tathlethril*

That's right, focus on the awesome orc before you... You can't resist my orcshakes!


<.<

DO YOU HAVE HONOR SARS? DO YOU????

[Three_cows]

Some people enjoy soloing, some people enjoy grouping, some people enjoy 1v1s, some people enjoy taking keeps, defending keeps, calling in air strikes etc though to repeatedly advocate how others ought to play creates expectations which are unlikely to be fulfilled given people have every right to retain their freedom of unique playstyle preferences.

The word "playstyle" has become more sickenly overused than the word "zerg" at this point. Really, it's barfable... let it go.


Running away isn't a playstyle. Balling up at EC or OC isn't a playstyle.




Have all of you that are so offended thought about how boring it must be to ride around all the time ganking noobs? Serious that must be boring.

Lets all be honest, the majority of the people roaming the map are low ranked creeps trying to do a quest or something. It's fun to beat them up a couple of times, but after a while it loses its value.

So after a couple of hours of either a. getting rolled over by larger groups, b. finding nothing, or c. finding some noobs, wouldn't you be excited to find a ranked creep that seems "worthy of fighting"?

Now how frustrated would you be it if just ran away or came back with 2-3 more players? Heck The White Hand made a whole comedy video to vent their frustration at scared little freeps who ran away from PvP all the time.



No one told anyone who to play. Duh.

[Jungleghost]

SEEMINGLY AN ELF IS STOPPING ONE OF YOUR WARGS FROM DOING THE GREAT EYE'S BIDDING, YOU STAND ASIDE AND LET IT HAPPEN. WHERE IS YOUR HONOUR SIR.

AND WHY ARE WE TALKING LIKE MAGGOTSTEW? FO' REALS?


*continues his hypnotic dance while shooting Tarbosh looks of disdain*

[Calem]

The word "playstyle" has become more sickenly overused than the word "zerg" at this point. Really, it's barfable... let it go.


Running away isn't a playstyle. Balling up at EC or OC isn't a playstyle.




Have all of you that are so offended thought about how boring it must be to ride around all the time ganking noobs? Serious that must be boring.

Lets all be honest, the majority of the people roaming the map are low ranked creeps trying to do a quest or something. It's fun to beat them up a couple of times, but after a while it loses its value.

So after a couple of hours of either a. getting rolled over by larger groups, b. finding nothing, or c. finding some noobs, wouldn't you be excited to find a ranked creep that seems "worthy of fighting"?

Now how frustrated would you be it if just ran away or came back with 2-3 more players? Heck The White Hand made a whole comedy video to vent their frustration at scared little freeps who ran away from PvP all the time.



No one told anyone who to play. Duh.

So using "playstyle" is barfable? Let it go? Then you use it twice in the next 2 sentences?

If players choose to run away from an encounter, recruit allies, ball up in EC on red map or OC on blue map etc it is their choice. Why judge people on their own choices for gaming? You are making a judgement on how they choose to play, so clearly you are creating expectations they ought to play differently which is essentially telling them how to play.

Frustrated? That relates to expectations again and unfulfilled expectations can feel disappointing. Why frustrated? It is a game, enjoy it for what it offers without needing to elevate anyone's expectations on others for your own gaming enjoyment.

If someone expects that every high ranked creep or freep ought to 1v1 you every time they see you then you are placing your expectations on how they ought to play, especially when people keep talking about it in forums. If that encounter happens, enjoy it, though calling high ranks out here to play a certain way is most certainly telling people how to play and is entirely based on your expectations. Venting in /ooc is entirely different to writing a forum post sharing your expectations for how others ought to play.

Frustration in a video game? As I said before, lets all pretend it is just a game.

Disclaimer: No fur, loincloth or pickle was harmed in the making of this post.

[Three_cows]

So using "playstyle" is barfable? Let it go? Then you use it twice in the next 2 sentences?

Sure, because I am referring only to your post and you are the only one ever to use to word playstyle.

If players choose to run away from an encounter, recruit allies, ball up in EC on red map or OC on blue map etc it is their choice. [Why judge people on their own choices for gaming?

He didnt make any judgements, he asked what it would take to get people to not run away.

You are making a judgement on how they choose to play, so clearly you are creating expectations they ought to play differently which is essentially telling them how to play.

Who got judged? He complained that people we running away. Again... no judging.

Frustrated? That relates to expectations again and unfulfilled expectations can feel disappointing. Why frustrated? It is a game, enjoy it for what it offers without needing to elevate anyone's expectations on others for your own gaming enjoyment.

Because it is a Pvp zone. Why not pvp?

If someone expects that every high ranked creep or freep ought to 1v1 you every time they see you then you are placing your expectations on how they ought to play, especially when people keep talking about it in forums.

This just... isn't logical. he isn't teling people "how to play". he is simply asking them to play. If they want to play the "run around not PvPing game" there are other zones available for that.

If that encounter happens, enjoy it, though calling high ranks out here to play a certain way is most certainly telling people how to play and is entirely based on your expectations. Venting in /ooc is entirely different to writing a forum post sharing your expectations for how others ought to play.

I hope you aren't suggesting people take their complaints to OOC. That as a whole would be horrid. The forums are the appropriate place for the OP to voice their dissatisfaction.

And one last time, just in case you might get it this time. He's just asking them to play. Not telling them how.

Frustration in a video game? As I said before, lets all pretend it is just a game.

People don;t get frustrated playing games? Have you ever watched pro-sports?


Please. Employ some ​logic. For all of our sakes

[Calem]

Sure, because I am referring only to your post and you are the only one ever to use to word playstyle.

He didnt make any judgements, he asked what it would take to get people to not run away.

Way to switch on passive-aggressive mode, I will keep it dispassionately objective, perhaps you could do the same.

Original post contains words like "pathetic" and "losers". While people may not always agree with Luc, I will continue to defend his right to share his own opinions, though IMHO these words appear to judge the way others choose to play. If people choose to run away from an encounter, it is their choice to run away from that encounter if they do not find gaming enjoyment by participating in it.

Who got judged? He complained that people we running away. Again... no judging.

Because it is a Pvp zone. Why not pvp?

See above, in short, players have every right to PvP the way they choose.

This just... isn't logical. he isn't teling people "how to play". he is simply asking them to play. If they want to play the "run around not PvPing game" there are other zones available for that.

Luc is asking high level creeps to engage him on his terms, where is the logic to suggest that players ought to engage Luc on his terms if they prefer to engage Luc on their terms? If players prefer not to engage Luc or others 1v1, call in help, go to friendly NPCs etc it is their choice to do so since it is their precious gaming time. They are still playing their game even though it may not be something Luc or others prefer, it is still their choice to play that way. Namecalling players who choose to play a different way to the expectations of any person here is judging.

I hope you aren't suggesting people take their complaints to OOC. That as a whole would be horrid. The forums are the appropriate place for the OP to voice their dissatisfaction.

Interesting interpretation. My comment refers to the fact that on both sides many players vent in /ooc about how the other side chooses to play. I do not advocate this though we all observe it from time to time. Sharing opinions on a forum is valuable, bringing our community together with good ideas is beneficial though namecalling and venting on forums because certain players choose to play a different way is hardly likely to inspire players to a new way of playing.

And one last time, just in case you might get it this time. He's just asking them to play. Not telling them how.

More passive-aggressive, does that make you feel better in some way or still venting your frustrations?

IMHO, Luc is asking them to play a certain way, no one has any right to tell anyone how to play a game with their precious time as long as they abide by all of Turbine's COC and TOS. If this is an attempt to adjust the collective social conscience of preferred gaming on Landroval then it is what it is, asking people to play a certain way.

People don;t get frustrated playing games? Have you ever watched pro-sports?

Pro-sports is a profession where people do their best to achieve individual and team goals, they give it 100% and their fiercely competitive natures demand the best for themselves and their team. This is very different to a video game that people often choose to play for enjoyment. Even if someone feels frustrated, one can choose to mitigate or release that frustration in positive ways.

Please. Employ some ​logic. For all of our sakes

Drop the unnecessary passive-aggressive tone, it only allows others to draw conclusions that may not be conducive to harmonising our great gaming community.

I will continue to defend every player having a right to play how they choose without having to be subjected to namecalling or have undue expectations placed upon them by more vocal players who prefer we all played a certain way.

[Fraegster]

This is for you Sars:

[Three_cows]

Way to switch on passive-aggressive mode, I will keep it dispassionately objective, perhaps you could do the same.

I had a long drawn out reply that I just deleted since repeating myself 3-4 times isn't going to make the point any better. I'll just leave it to this.


Please look up the proper use of "passive-aggressive". I believe you are unclear as to its meaning.

[Thane9]

Luc is asking high level creeps to engage him on his terms, where is the logic to suggest that players ought to engage Luc on his terms if they prefer to engage Luc on their terms?

No I'm not.

I'm asking high level creeps why they aren't engaging me, period.

AND I'm asking those who won't, what exactly they would require from Turbine to feel confident enough to do so.

I don't think it's demanding other people to play some specific way, to ask why aren't you PvMP'ing in a PvMP zone.

As for any namecalling, yeah, I'm frustrated by the whole situation. When I KNOW there are creeps that can beat me who just refuse to fight without calling in the zerg to insta-smash me. I have purposefully not changed the wording of my OP because I know then I'll be accused of all kinds of various manipulations of my message, been there done that.

So, did I use exactly the best wording in the world? No.

But my questions still stand. And I've in many many many pages now yet to see very many responses that actually address my questions.

It's far easier to write posts that say what "Luc is doing" or what "Luc is demanding" than it is to actually just answer the question.

So feel free to continue to bash me....but consider actually answering the questions, otherwise you're just as guilty as pushing your agenda as you're claiming I am. ...just a thought.

[fling1]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I've been away from this game for a few years and now and you're still doing this on the forums Luc? Really? Do you think it's ever going to change?

The moors is a very small playground and some people are going to go down the slide feet first and some will go down head first. The horse is still laying dead at the bottom of that slide and instead of just calling animal control and walking away--you're still standing above it with a sledgehammer.

Hint: It's not so much the class design in this game as it is the players controlling them. The type of behavior that you constantly point out on these forums is not typical of many other MMOs pvp gameplay. Most people, (most being the key word here) that continue to play Lotro pvp do it for the comradery and not always for personal challenges. 95% of the best and most serious pvp'ers i have played with in Lotro have moved on to other games years ago. Other games that SUPPORT pvp and strive to keep it balanced and fun. Other games where people ACTUALLY pvp.

Turbine has got you fighting in a merca infected sandbox with no incentive or reward and if people are still playing in that sandbox, they're not out there for the pvp. They're out there to be with their friends/loved ones to do what ever it is they feel like doing. So if a rank bizillion creep doesn't want to engage you so be it. That person is not out there for the same reason you are Luc, plain and simple. You just have to accept it no matter how bad it tastes.

[Three_cows]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I've been away from this game for a few years and now and you're still doing this on the forums Luc? Really? Do you think it's ever going to change?

The moors is a very small playground and some people are going to go down the slide feet first and some will go down head first. The horse is still laying dead at the bottom of that slide and instead of just calling animal control and walking away--you're still standing above it with a sledgehammer.

Hint: It's not so much the class design in this game as it is the players controlling them. The type of behavior that you constantly point out on these forums is not typical of many other MMOs pvp gameplay. Most people, (most being the key word here) that continue to play Lotro pvp do it for the comradery and not always for personal challenges. 95% of the best and most serious pvp'ers i have played with in Lotro have moved on to other games years ago. Other games that SUPPORT pvp and strive to keep it balanced and fun. Other games where people ACTUALLY pvp.

Turbine has got you fighting in a merca infected sandbox with no incentive or reward and if people are still playing in that sandbox, they're not out there for the pvp. They're out there to be with their friends/loved ones to do what ever it is they feel like doing. So if a rank bizillion creep doesn't want to engage you so be it. That person is not out there for the same reason you are Luc, plain and simple. You just have to accept it no matter how bad it tastes.

*whispers* they were trying to get to 36 pages. This won't help.

[AngusMcleod]

No I'm not.

I'm asking high level creeps why they aren't engaging me, period.

AND I'm asking those who won't, what exactly they would require from Turbine to feel confident enough to do so.

I don't think it's demanding other people to play some specific way, to ask why aren't you PvMP'ing in a PvMP zone.

As for any namecalling, yeah, I'm frustrated by the whole situation. When I KNOW there are creeps that can beat me who just refuse to fight without calling in the zerg to insta-smash me. I have purposefully not changed the wording of my OP because I know then I'll be accused of all kinds of various manipulations of my message, been there done that.

So, did I use exactly the best wording in the world? No.

But my questions still stand. And I've in many many many pages now yet to see very many responses that actually address my questions.

It's far easier to write posts that say what "Luc is doing" or what "Luc is demanding" than it is to actually just answer the question.

So feel free to continue to bash me....but consider actually answering the questions, otherwise you're just as guilty as pushing your agenda as you're claiming I am. ...just a thought.

Just stop posting dude you are the biggest hypocrit ive seen yet. You QQ more than anyone ive ever seen then do exactly what you QQ about. Until roi when obviously champs became god mode you were about as dangerous as borfin is now at lvl 70. IE I doubt you could kill anything over r3. Now you are pretending your good knowing that if every bubble and other cds are up you can just simply outlast most creeps. Having said that if your cds are down or you feel you cant win you run like a girl. So again just stop posting the QQ.

[PapaDarsh]

Luc is posting on the forums just like he pvps. On his own terms. I have responded 8 times with no a single reply from the Luc. Why because there is nothing for him to say. He wants to make his point and hopefully some of you will believe him.

I wouldn’t call myself a high rank creep more in the mid rank range and you still ran and came to the forums to QQ. It’s a sad day Landroval most of the other servers don’t have this kind of problem. Hey I have a thought maybe it’s just Luc?

And why is thread still open?

[Thane9]

Just stop posting dude you are the biggest hypocrit ive seen yet. You QQ more than anyone ive ever seen then do exactly what you QQ about. Until roi when obviously champs became god mode you were about as dangerous as borfin is now at lvl 70. IE I doubt you could kill anything over r3. Now you are pretending your good knowing that if every bubble and other cds are up you can just simply outlast most creeps. Having said that if your cds are down or you feel you cant win you run like a girl. So again just stop posting the QQ.

Name one time I've seen you solo with no other freeps/creeps around and I've hidden in NPCs and called out for freeps to come and roll you over.

I can list why this is impossible to do freepside, AND continue to assert that I've never done it. You can believe what you want. I've played a reaver, when reavers were FAR less powerful. I know what it is, and I know the power balance.

I tell you what. You get a Champ to L75, get whatever gear you want...then you come fight me on my reaver...he's R4, but I'll buy my skills because that's what reavers are doing right now. You use NO cooldowns and we'll see who wins. I guarentee you there's one ending to that scenerio. Guarentee.

Editing to add: Just one thought...how is it QQ to WANT creeps to fight? My OP was out of frustration of the fact that several high ranked creeps were choosing NOT to engage me. Funny how I'm QQ'ing about not getting enough action. The real QQ happening is the creeps hiding in their NPCs calling for help.

Luc is posting on the forums just like he pvps. On his own terms. I have responded 8 times with no a single reply from the Luc. Why because there is nothing for him to say. He wants to make his point and hopefully some of you will believe him.

I wouldn’t call myself a high rank creep more in the mid rank range and you still ran and came to the forums to QQ. It’s a sad day Landroval most of the other servers don’t have this kind of problem. Hey I have a thought maybe it’s just Luc?

And why is thread still open?

What reply do you want? I haven't seen an answer to my question.

Everyone has taken this thread and grabbed it as an opportunity to bash me. How about just reading the initial post.

Why don't ranked and more powerful than ever (not really disputable...but feel free to if you'd like) creeps see fit to engage a solo freep without help?

And given that question, what would it take for Turbine to do to empower creeps in such a way that they'd feel on even enough ground to actually do so. I HONESTLY want Turbine to do whatever it is that will make creeps feel tough enough to actually PvMP instead of just swarm kill with numbers.

I'm not talking about ALL creeps. I'm not talking about ALL situations. I'm literally asking those who choose not to fight, regularly and often, and instead rely on callouts and map-ins to fight. If you're not one of those players then hats off to you, there's nothing more to say. If you are then just answer the questions or move along.

This really shouldn't be so difficult.

If the 20%-30% wasn't enough would it require another 30%? 50% 100% damage? Or would it be another 20% to mitigations, 2000 more finesse, or 5000 more morale? If being able to buy skills isn't enough do you feel the need to get them for free?

Honestly, I hear a LOT about why creeps are so underpowered. I SEE in action creeps acting like they're too underpowered to fight 1v1. I'm just curious. What would it take for creeps...again SOME not all....to finally say "Yup...we're pretty even now at high ranks...I look forward to squaring off".

It's as simple as that.

[Thane9]

So if a rank bizillion creep doesn't want to engage you so be it. That person is not out there for the same reason you are Luc, plain and simple. You just have to accept it no matter how bad it tastes.

And my thoughts about that are indeed frustrated.

However, my question was intended to gain an understanding of exactly what they DO want.

If it'd take another 5000 morale and 25% damage so be it. Even if I only won one out of 50 fights that way, at least these guys would fight me without feeling the need to call out and zerg me.

But if the issue is NOT about creep power level, and their motivation to swarm like that is NOT driven by a percieved power imbalance then I have to ask at what point is it just griefing behaviour. IF (and I stress the IF here) IF these players are getting some sort of enjoyment by creating a no-win situation for their opponent, isn't that a definition for griefing?

Shouldn't then we examine Turbine's responsibility to discourage that form of gameplay in favour of a competative one?

[Olympic]

IF these players are getting some sort of enjoyment by creating a no-win situation for their opponent, isn't that a definition for griefing?

No, but that is really an opinion question. Some would say it is, others would say it isn't.

Shouldn't then we examine Turbine's responsibility to discourage that form of gameplay in favour of a competative one?

No because what you are really asking is "shouldn't it be Turbine's responsibility to discourage people from killing me in ways I don't like?" I'm not comfortable with letting Turbine figure out the very subjective measure of "competitive gameplay", and even less comfortable with letting a large portion of the PvP playerbase define it.

As with most things in life, I think the situation is better left alone to take its natural course.

[Sujae]

Well Luc, say anything you want, but your actions just to match up to what you post over and over.

For instance, yesterday in Isen, tell me that the Burg that I knocked off his mount didnt call me out at the Grothum exit while the raid you were in came flying out with none other than yourself being the first player I saw leading the charge followed by the rest of the Freeps you were with? I'd call that a class A steam roll, wouldn't you?

As many have said, play how you want Luc, you are no better/no worse than any of us in that tiny zone. We all give you permission to stop putting yourself on a pedestal.

[Beerpong]

Well Luc, say anything you want, but your actions just to match up to what you post over and over.

For instance, yesterday in Isen, tell me that the Burg that I knocked off his mount didnt call me out at the Grothum exit while the raid you were in came flying out with none other than yourself being the first player I saw leading the charge followed by the rest of the Freeps you were with? I'd call that a class A steam roll, wouldn't you?

As many have said, play how you want Luc, you are no better/no worse than any of us in that tiny zone. We all give you permission to stop putting yourself on a pedestal.

I caught Mr. Honorable Soloer overextending twice in that raid last night and he promptly died after a quick pounce/assist from Whitemamba and other BA's.

If you ever get ganked by Luc feel free to message myself or another Legion of Mount Doom member and we will deal with him. He ganked several of our tribe members who were rank0, rank1, etc. at HH a few weeks back.


~Cheers

[Jamers]

I caught Mr. Honorable Soloer overextending twice in that raid last night and he promptly died after a quick pounce/assist from Whitemamba and other BA's.

If you ever get ganked by Luc feel free to message myself or another Legion of Mount Doom member and we will deal with him. He ganked several of our tribe members who were rank0, rank1, etc. at HH a few weeks back.


~Cheers

Just out of curiosity, why do you expect deferential treatment as a low ranked creep? Do you avoid engaging unranked/low level freeps? Additionally, do you always refer to being killed solo as a gank?

[Thane9]

No, but that is really an opinion question. Some would say it is, others would say it isn't.



No because what you are really asking is "shouldn't it be Turbine's responsibility to discourage people from killing me in ways I don't like?" I'm not comfortable with letting Turbine figure out the very subjective measure of "competitive gameplay", and even less comfortable with letting a large portion of the PvP playerbase define it.

As with most things in life, I think the situation is better left alone to take its natural course.

I think this is the heart of where we disagree. And maybe we should leave it at this.

I believe in a GAME there should be more to cost/benefit analysis than "just letting nature take its course".

Why? Because human nature is nasty and disgusting and leaves us devolving into a completely un-fun game.

It's my opinion that games SHOULD, in fact NEED to, have mechanics that encourage competative, and cooperative, play. Rather than just anarchy where everyone does whatever they want despite the impact that has on other players.

But I can respect your opinion as wanting a more "real life" war-like experience where anyone does anything, anytime. I just don't think that makes for the best game.

Well Luc, say anything you want, but your actions just to match up to what you post over and over.

For instance, yesterday in Isen, tell me that the Burg that I knocked off his mount didnt call me out at the Grothum exit while the raid you were in came flying out with none other than yourself being the first player I saw leading the charge followed by the rest of the Freeps you were with? I'd call that a class A steam roll, wouldn't you?

As many have said, play how you want Luc, you are no better/no worse than any of us in that tiny zone. We all give you permission to stop putting yourself on a pedestal.

Did you notice that within 2 minutes before that moment Isen flipped from red to blue? I think you're leaving that out of your story there.

We were heading out after flipping it. Common sense dictates that if you're entering an area that was JUST flipped, that there would be several freeps there. And in fact, that's exactly what had happened. I chose the Isen entrance to leave (btw, we were hurrying to LC where it was being flipped at that moment, and didn't want to burn our map) because there was a small and large drake in the lower exit and I was going to try to have the raid avoid being dismounted. When you were seen we all kinda shrugged and said "so much for not dismounting" and LC fell as a result. Not that it would've mattered LC was gone before we were even another 200m. Even mapping and riding from GV wouldn't have saved it.

Please note: for about the MILLIONTH time. I NEVER, EVER, take issue with getting rolled by a larger force. That's the nature of open PvMP. My frustration stems from players who when encountered solo are instead calling out for a swarm to map in rather than fight me.

IF for instance I wasn't in the raid at that time and I just happened to be killing drakes for the hornblower...and the raid went towards the west entrance to leave and hit Lugs...and I went east and ran into you...only to hit my bubbles and run west while calling the raid out to come back and smash you...that would be really terrible on my part. That, would NEVER happen. I would never do that. There are several very high ranked creeps who do just that, with the advantage of maps, all the time.

I hope you can see the difference. It's a massive difference to me. One is the risk of being solo. The other is being purposefully swarmed and ganked.

I caught Mr. Honorable Soloer overextending twice in that raid last night and he promptly died after a quick pounce/assist from Whitemamba and other BA's.

If you ever get ganked by Luc feel free to message myself or another Legion of Mount Doom member and we will deal with him. He ganked several of our tribe members who were rank0, rank1, etc. at HH a few weeks back.


~Cheers

First off, I never claimed to be honorable. Frankly this garbage attacking me with made up things like this is old.

I killed creeps in HH, um yeah...so? All while I was solo and at a greater risk anywhere on the map than any group of creeps or freeps.

What I did NOT do, is see a solo creep in HH and call out for help to map in and kill it.

I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

So I'm ganking if I fight in HH, I'm ganking if I fight around Grams, I'm overextending if I'm pushing in a raid. At least I'm not huddled up in my one shots waiting for a callout to map in 20 to kill 1.

I roam the ENTIRE map, the center STAB area more or less excluded, looking for fights. Sometimes I find relatively low ranks. Sometimes I find high ranks. Every time I fight.

I know creeps who can't say the same. Either because they refuse to accept the inherant risk of being solo, or becuase they won't step up to actually fight when they can just call in a group to zerg someone.


Note: I'm very clearly not saying ALL creeps, OR that freeps don't do this too...either by using stealth or whatever.

I'm just saying it feels like the game SHOULD encourage players to try and fight IF they're a reasonably close match rather than just waiting/calling out for/or encouraging others to come to smash the smaller force, be it a solo or a large group.

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Frankly the level of animosity about this is just weird. All I'm asking is that people fight in the moors more often instead of waiting until they have some massive numerical advantage.

That doesn't, to me at least, seem like that radical of an idea.

All I can conclude is that people must REALLY like low challenge, watch my target explode, gameplay.

Of COURSE there will always be situations where a large group blows up a small group. I actually like that "risk" to the feel of the game. Heck, I know if I kill a low ranked creep...OR a high ranked one...anywhere NEAR a map-in I'm at a massive risk compared to even a small group. But I enjoy that risk. I enjoy knowing that I'm not safe.

But that's VERY different than if I were to just only engage when I KNEW I would win.

I hope that clarifies my position a little better for you.

[Jamers]

No because what you are really asking is "shouldn't it be Turbine's responsibility to discourage people from killing me in ways I don't like?" I'm not comfortable with letting Turbine figure out the very subjective measure of "competitive gameplay", and even less comfortable with letting a large portion of the PvP playerbase define it.

As with most things in life, I think the situation is better left alone to take its natural course.

Open PvP environments are delicate. To ensure the success of their own product, Turbine has to maintain some measure of competition. The extent to which individual players want them to do so will vary, of course, but by tweaking, updating and changing classes, Turbine is inherently trying to adjust the measure of competition.