Just what does 1+1 = ?

[Sssnapdragon]

All of this talk about massive damage and OP'ness for some classes...

It reminds of a time when creeps were OP and freeps said that people should go play the underpowered side.

Hmm... Weird how that other shoe doesn't fit.

Freepz 4 Life!! *gang signs*

[The_Observer]

Champ talk =/= the other classes


IDk about the others, but I do know that minstrels are getting a damage reduction in U5.

lmao Come on, dude. Let's be real for a bit.

I honestly don't care who plays what and who can do what, and who is OP or not. Make RKs that can hit for 20k damage, whatev.

I'm just pointing out how incredibly silly it was to make that argument a year ago.

[Anarionadama]

Let's be real for a bit.

Let me know when it's really one of those times

[The_Observer]

Let me know when it's really one of those times

lol Don't worry. You can keep your banjo.

[leekofthewood]

All of this talk about massive damage and OP'ness for some classes...

It reminds of a time when creeps were OP and freeps said that people should go play the underpowered side.

Hmm... Weird how that other shoe doesn't fit.

lmao Come on, dude. Let's be real for a bit.

I honestly don't care who plays what and who can do what, and who is OP or not. Make RKs that can hit for 20k damage, whatev.

I'm just pointing out how incredibly silly it was to make that argument a year ago.

I'm going to just say what I feel in regards to these posts. Tell me how you know what's happening at all out there considering you no longer actually play on landroval? The leaderboards I assume? If you knew what was actually going on, you'd know what was going on. But, you don't.

[Olympic]

He does play on Landroval.

And its a questionable premise anyway. There are people that play everyday for hours on Landroval that don't know what is going on.

[Sssnapdragon]

He does play on Landroval.

And its a questionable premise anyway. There are people that play everyday for hours on Landroval that don't know what is going on.

Ignorance is bliss!


Also, I still don't think things have settled into their regularly scheduled programming. Many freeps are still under leveled and under geared. I suspect that freeps will (continue to) have the upper hand when that is rectified, but that's just my personal opinion.

[Thane9]

Man, I wish you Freeps would bring this much heart & gusto to the Moors...

Gutlard out!

Some of us do.

[FatherDamien]

All this talk of propery level'd freep with gear and what not.......BAH! I say. At level 70 my heals seem to be pretty darn good.







On a serious note.......I am eager to see how well I can heal onve Im level 75 and fuly geared.


See you out there!

[TheBigMenace]

This where you lose me. Where are you getting 12k morale?

It's a point where you are stacking so much vitality that your might/crit will suffer heavily. It's not that uncommon to see actually. I will often run a setup like this in the moors, it allows a captain to use IHW without last stand.

Again, the main reason I'm not dying is that I have a good mix, not JUST because of my morale pool OR because of just my might stat. On a side note, are you really going to lecture me on the benefits of killing an opposing player?

You seem really bent on ignoring the fact that I am referring to group play. And you seemed to question why you would want to kill something faster, so I gave you the benefits.

At less than 9k morale, I don't exactly consider my morale pool to be "giant". HAHA Gutlard, don't even try it! I also disagree that having a larger morale pool doesn't improve my performance considering I'm still alive and doing infinitely more damage than the glass cannon build that is laying there dead beside me who just did marginally more damage to the warg we both just smoked.

Again ignoring the fact that I'm suggesting you obtain your survivability by relying on your group members. I have said it multiple times and you keep ignoring it, IF YOU ARE NOT DIEING there is no point in increasing your survivability because it doesn't affect your performance.

Please go on, teach me more about how to be a good player.

As you wish.

The thing is, survivability is always an issue. That is, unless your breezing through weak npcs,underleved content or zerging competition who has no chance of success. You may very well be the best captain the game has ever seen, capable of keeping players alive when others could not. However, if we're discussing playing pvp or true end game content (and not the snooze mode dragon), surviving is and always will be at the top of the priority list. You can throw in certain instances where it's a dps race or when players stand around a dead person to corpse jump or /rude in there as exceptions but my point to you really is, a dead player does zero damage outside of a few ticks of their dots that's left over.

Well this may be a foreign concept to you, but support classes give massive amounts of survivability with heals and buffs. Not to mention the multiple bubbles that a champion can pop at any given moment. I don't know what to say here besides stack more healers/get better ones?

I'm sure you ARE hitting creeps very hard, no debating that point. But honestly, a champ can just about run around butt nekkid at this point and do alright. That's all about to change in update 5 however with the new raid and with the new creep corruptions. The fact is, there's not alot of content out there right now that presses champions like the future content will. Add to that, the dwindling vet creep groups you see on a daily basis, especially small groups like the plague used to run, and champs have it far too easy right now.

So, add it all up, you're running with a "perfect group" in the moors and the end game content is the Dragon which pugs are completing daily. It's my opinion that after update 5 that there will be very few scenarios, if there will be any at all, where a champ can run around with 2000+ might and live to tell about it.

I wouldn't call 2 captains, 2 champions and a loremaster a perfect group but it's an admitedly strong setup provided you can kill things fast. In update 5 freeps are only getting stronger and I don't know about this corruption update. Care to provide links? Otherwise it's just going to be business as usual in the moors, freep power goes up due to gear scaling and creep power remains where it is. Although the imposing presence buff is going to be interesting.

[Danaca]

Eh, isn't that exactly what outfits are for? so that you don't have to carry stuff around but still be able to change the appearance?

You can't use the outfits in the moors, for some silly reason that originally was likely not so silly. End result, for Kynji to sport her stylish looks while routing evil, she actually has to equip the dresses and take a big hit to her vitals. You know what they say though, fashion is pain...

[Gillianrial]

In update 5 freeps are only getting stronger and I don't know about this corruption update. Care to provide links? Otherwise it's just going to be business as usual in the moors, freep power goes up due to gear scaling and creep power remains where it is. Although the imposing presence buff is going to be interesting.

There are new corruption types that allow for a kind of min/maxing on the Creep side. For example, 6 (I think) types of corruptions for both mastery and crit protection. They all have the same values - but you can stack them - or intersperse a few - along with damage/health/power/ whatever. I will try to screenshot them later.


Separately, so you're talking about group play, ok...presumably you understand that some people would rather test themselves 1v1 and therefore their set-up is incredibly different? A solo player gears/traits a ton differently than a grouping player. Pretty obvious, IMO.

[TheBigMenace]

There are new corruption types that allow for a kind of min/maxing on the Creep side. For example, 6 (I think) types of corruptions for both mastery and crit protection. They all have the same values - but you can stack them - or intersperse a few - along with damage/health/power/ whatever. I will try to screenshot them later.

Haven't been to the PTR yet but I'll take your word for it, regardless it's probably not going to be anywhere close to the insane scaling 1st age weapons bring.

A solo player gears/traits a ton differently than a grouping player. Pretty obvious, IMO.

Mind explaining this to Leekae?

[Gillianrial]

Haven't been to the PTR yet but I'll take your word for it, regardless it's probably not going to be anywhere close to the insane scaling 1st age weapons bring.

I think it just allows for a little more customization, where now there isn't really much choice. The values are all fairly high, though (again, will screenie these tonight), so for instance, a BA would be able to really specialize in DPS through slotting more Mastery corruptions without losing any morale, but without being able to really build for morale either.

The 10% to Imposing Presence is a nice buff, but then, with focus fire 10% is really nothing.

I have mostly messed around creepside in Beta, so my feelings are:
1) R15 fully tricked out creeps with access to a lot of consumables are insanely powerful (in a good way)
2) They will be nothing like the Live creeps, which is a huge buzzkill

I have been playing a WL and the only class I lost to in a 1v1 was a RK. I fought every kind of class many times over, but of course none of the freeps over there had 1st agers, so it's hard to judge. Also, minstrel heals are bugged on Beta, so they're not healing at full capacity yet, which made my fights with minstrels very easy.

Fully buffed, my WL runs 17k morale with R15 promotions, but no real passives because they don't give you much DP to play with. I traited mostly DPS and mastery corruptions, plus a bunch of crit protection ones, and I was hitting very hard - it was so fun! Another WL I was running around with was running 21k morale, and much more focused on group support. 4 creeps vs 15 freeps and we only had 1 death. Of course, I know the creeps won't be nearly as tough on Live, but it was pretty amazing to see the potential of ranked creeps vs geared freeps.

Oh and Mobilize = Win. It's awesome and does not block stealth (like March) so that pet wargs can zoom around just as fast.

[leekofthewood]

It's a point where you are stacking so much vitality that your might/crit will suffer heavily. It's not that uncommon to see actually. I will often run a setup like this in the moors, it allows a captain to use IHW without last stand.

When you say "you" I suppose you are reffering to me (having quoted me), so I ask, where do see that I am stacking 12k vitality?

Again ignoring the fact that I'm suggesting you obtain your survivability by relying on your group members. I have said it multiple times and you keep ignoring it, IF YOU ARE NOT DIEING there is no point in increasing your survivability because it doesn't affect your performance.

And here's the point I am trying to make. Your champions ARE DYING. Listing, in order of rank, your champions have the following ratings currently: 1253, 1146, 1472, 1432, 1263, and 1157. Now, that's a pretty good indicator that the champions you are running with are indeed taking deaths. If not, their ratings would be through the roof, aka 1600+ at the very least given a fair amount of time out there.

Therefor, we can take my initial comment, which was "stacking 1600+ might is a bad idea", regardless whether it be in a small group, raid or solo to heart. If it were as simple as never ever dying (literally), then I could see for certain that stacking damage would be the way to go. Sadly, it isn't.

Contrast those ratings I posted above vs my rating currently, which is 1450 (90% solo since ROI), and it should be easy enough to tell why I made the comments I've made.

Quick question, have any champions you run with approached this? (rating):

Well this may be a foreign concept to you, but support classes give massive amounts of survivability with heals and buffs.

I can really only take that comment as sarcastic considering I've lead one of the better overall kinships on the server for going on 5 years now. I mean, I have no idea what captains buffs are at all. See, that is sarcasm.

Not to mention the multiple bubbles that a champion can pop at any given moment. I don't know what to say here besides stack more healers/get better ones?

I'll address this in two parts:

A) Stack more healers: It should be fairly clear, possibly not, that I require no healers at all, let alone more healers.

B) Get better healers: Plain and simple, now you're showing true ignorance.

I wouldn't call 2 captains, 2 champions and a loremaster a perfect group but it's an admitedly strong setup provided you can kill things fast. In update 5 freeps are only getting stronger and I don't know about this corruption update. Care to provide links? Otherwise it's just going to be business as usual in the moors, freep power goes up due to gear scaling and creep power remains where it is. Although the imposing presence buff is going to be interesting.

I'll just leave this one alone and let you read what jaiyne said above.

[F1erceGam3r2]

Some of us do.

Yup, and I think I'm lucky enough to have good solos against those 5 or 6.

I should've said 'I wish more Freeps would come out with more heart & gusto' fo sho!

Gut Out!

[Starkraft]

And here's the point I am trying to make. Your champions ARE DYING. Listing, in order of rank, your champions have the following ratings currently: 1253, 1146, 1472, 1432, 1263, and 1157. Now, that's a pretty good indicator that the champions you are running with are indeed taking deaths. If not, their ratings would be through the roof, aka 1600+ at the very least given a fair amount of time out there.

Therefor, we can take my initial comment, which was "stacking 1600+ might is a bad idea", regardless whether it be in a small group, raid or solo to heart. If it were as simple as never ever dying (literally), then I could see for certain that stacking damage would be the way to go. Sadly, it isn't.

Contrast those ratings I posted above vs my rating currently, which is 1450 (90% solo since ROI), and it should be easy enough to tell why I made the comments I've made.

Quick question, have any champions you run with approached this? (rating):

rating change all the time.....and of course we die....we look for heavily outnumbered fights that are actually a challenge.

Ask the white hand, they saw our aggression, and we got 2k rating defeated out of it. Sure lots of people have that, so no need to mention that fact, but some of the people we roll with are new toons, including myself.

[Cembrye]

There are people that play everyday for hours on Landroval that don't know what is going on.

The right to be oblivious is one of our most precious liberties - and Sauron protects that right...

[Olympic]

The right to be oblivious is one of our most precious liberties - and Sauron protects that right...

I know some people that are real zealous in embracing that liberty, oh thing of Shelob

[Gillianrial]

Here are some of the new trait options. As you can see in all, there are 6 of each type. However, I don't know at what ranks these are available, so it may be a while before everyone can stack them as they wish.

That said:

- Critical Protection - 1-6, each trait adds 608 crit defense. I played around with this a bit, and until I had 3-4 slotted, crits were pretty frequent. After that, I can't recall a crit outside of a RK.



Mastery Corruptions - 1-6, and each adds +900 physical and tactical mastery.



Tactical Mitigation Boosts - 1-6, and each adds 608 Tactical Mitigation rating (pretty significant if you look at the class/racial traits are so low really)



There's also the same with physical mitigation boosts.

So in all, I felt like there was some better ability to really spec in a way that suits a role or playstyle. But again, I don't know when the 1-6 of these are earned.

[TheBigMenace]

rating change all the time.....and of course we die....we look for heavily outnumbered fights that are actually a challenge.

Ask the white hand, they saw our aggression, and we got 2k rating defeated out of it. Sure lots of people have that, so no need to mention that fact, but some of the people we roll with are new toons, including myself.

Well, there it is then.